Who Started World War II?

[texelbo]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

England was not the ally of France, but its rival.

For sure - 'no permanent ally, but permanent interests'.

We are, looking from east, considerd Hitler as English puppet, as hummer for destroing of remains of belle epoque in continental Europe. They had fault with Trotsky in USSR in 1927, but prompt had switch to 'plan B'.
This tricking gues from Island always succeed play off one their competitors against another. With catastrophic results for those both and profit to UK. It happened at 1870, 1914, 1939, 1941.
Or another tool - the 'revolutions' - at 1789, 1848, 1870, 1905, 1917, 1918.
Doesn't matter where it were - France, Germany or Russia.

It why I like sink british ships.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by texelbo

It why I like sink british ships.

What I like, and I'm saying it now, before being banned for the second time, is that the British have been humiliated three times during the war by the Germans (the "Nazis" !) : first at Dunkerque where they had a humiliating retreat, second during Rheinübung where their most prestigious battleship was sunk by the Bismarck, and third during Cerberus Operation when 3 german battleships sailed through the Channel !!!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Sorry, you don't give me the right to answer to these questions, beause this is ... HATE ! (lol !) And then , I get banned ... . The war is still continuing ...

You don't get banned or anything else for answering questions and having debates. What we don't like is someone taking the subject off-topic and bringing up his own personal political beliefs in a game thread. In the future please keep that kind of comment to General Topics. For now, please answer the questions.

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

What I like, and I'm saying it now...

So you refuse to answer what you started, but you want to continue with your personal diatribe. You can't have it both ways. I promise that if you answer Jim's questions and engage in an honest debate, no harm will come to you. On the other hand if you continue with your off-topic diatribe but refuse to answer the questions, you will indeed find the trouble you seem to be looking for.

One or the other. Your choice.

[Fahnenbohn]

@ Sailor Steve : you got a PM.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

What I like, and I'm saying it now, before being banned for the second time, is that the British have been humiliated three times during the war by the Germans (the "Nazis" !) : first at Dunkerque where they had a humiliating retreat, second during Rheinübung where their most prestigious battleship was sunk by the Bismarck, and third during Cerberus Operation when 3 german battleships sailed through the Channel !!!

I tell you what.....you answer the original four questions then after that how about you create a separate thread in GT focussing on what you consider to be 'hum iliating experiences' between both sides?

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

1) Which country invaded France?
2) Which country was it that sent the BEF to support France?
3) Which country gave exile/sanctuary to the Free French and its forces?
4) Which country played a major part in freeing France of occupation from her oppressors?

1/2 : Germany made a counter-attack against the Anglo-French coalition.
3/4 : Free French was completely illegal, since the official french government signed an armistice with Germany.

But the good questions are :

1. Which country pushed Poland to refuse any negotiations with Germany about the scandalous Danzig corridor ?
2. Which country first declared war on Germany ?

[Wreford-Brown]

Britain delivered its declaration of war 15 mins before France, but both countries gave a deadline for the withdrawal of German troops from Poland the following day. Both declarations were conditional.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

Britain delivered its declaration of war 15 mins before France, but both countries gave a deadline for the withdrawal of German troops from Poland the following day. Both declarations were conditional.

Yes, but it's symbolic !

Another fact : French people was against the war with Germany. The declaration of war was illegal, the National Assembly's opinion has not even been asked ! A democratie ? lol !

We are always talking about the German officers who tried to assassinate Hitler. This is the French officers who should have had to refuse to obey to the orders, and should have had to make a State coup ! When war was over for France, the members of the government didn't assume their acts, and left the responsibility of the Armistice to a French officer (Petain). He should have understood who was the real ennemy of France, but he was too old, and was still thinking as in 1918 ...

1945 is the end of a free and powerful Europe.

[Fahnenbohn]

From Hitler's speech, october 6, 1939 :

"I have devoted no less effort to the achievement of an Anglo-German understanding, nay, more than that, of an Anglo-German friendship. At no time and in no place have I ever acted contrary to British interests. Unfortunately I have only too often been forced to guard against instances of British interference in German affairs, even in cases which did not concern Great Britain in the least. I actually considered it as one of my life aims to reconcile these two peoples, not only through mutual understanding but through inner sympathy. The German nation has gladly followed my lead in this respect. If my endeavors have been unsuccessful, it is only because of an animosity on the part of certain British statesmen and journalists, which has deeply affected me personally. They made no secret of the fact that - for reasons which are unfathomable to us - their sole aim was to seize the first opportunity in order to resume the fight with Germany. The fewer reasons of substantial nature these men have for their schemes, the more they attempt to motivate their actions with empty phrases and assertions. But I believe even today that there can only he real peace in Europe and throughout the world if Germany and England come to an understanding. Because of this conviction I have often shown the way to an understanding. If in the end there was not the desired result, it was really not my fault."

and also :

"This I ask : If forty-six million Englishmen claim the right to rule over forty million square kilometers of the earth, it cannot be wrong for eighty-two million Germans to demand the right to live on 800,000 square kilometers, to till their fields and to follow their trades and callings, and if they further demand the restitution of those colonial possessions which formerly were their property, which they had not taken away from anybody by robbery or war but honestly acquired by purchase, exchange and treaties."

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

3/4 : Free French was completely illegal, since the official french government signed an armistice with Germany.

So you don't want to be independent? You'd much rather be a puppet to a genocidal government in Berlin that valued itself over it's own people, and cared even less about you?

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

a genocidal government

@ Sailor Steve : You see ? Impossible discussion. This is MAGIC !

[Fahnenbohn]

From the same speech (see post #12) :

"My chief endeavor, however, has been to rid our relations with France of all trace of ill will and render them tolerable for both nations. I once set forth with the utmost clarity Germany's claims in this domain and have never gone back on that declaration. Return of the Saar territory was one demand which I regarded as an indispensable pre-condition of Franco-German understandings. After France herself had found a just solution of this problem, Germany had no further claims against France. No such claim exists any longer and no such claim shall ever be put forward. That is to say, I have refused even to mention the problem of Alsace-Lorraine not because I was forced to keep silent, but because this matter does not constitute a problem which could ever interfere with Franco-German relations. I accepted the decision made in 1919 and refused to consider ever embarking upon war for the sake of a question which, comparatively speaking, is of slight importance for Germany's vital interests, but which is certainly likely to involve every second generation in a deadly war fear. France realized this. It is impossible for any French statesman to get up and declare I have ever made any demands upon France the fulfillment of which would be incompatible with French honor or French interest. It is, however, true that instead of demands I have always expressed to France my desire to bury forever our ancient enmity and bring together these two nations, both of which have such glorious pasts. Among the German people, I have done my utmost to eradicate the idea of everlasting enmity and to inculcate in its place a respect for the great achievements of the French nation and for its history, just as every German soldier has the greatest respect for the feats of the French Army."

[Sailor Steve]

The thread is now reopened to allow Fahnenbohn to produce his documents. Make comments if you like, but stick to the subject, please.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

@ Sailor Steve : You see ? Impossible discussion. This is MAGIC !

It is the truth that you seek to exclude from the monologue you think is a conversation.

The one who prepared for the war he would make is Hitler and his sock puppet Germany. Germany prepared to attack the Allies. The Allies did not prepare to attack Germany.

Donitz goes into great detail in his book about the preparations for war in the middle to late 1930s, the timetable for such a war (timetables are made by the aggressor, by the way, for those keeping score) and the number of U-boats he thought were necessary for Britain's defeat, years before any war was started (by Germany) and while Germany and Britain were at peace and Hitler slyly singing Kumbaya in your above quoted "disarm your enemy" Kumbaya speech.

The words sincere and Hitler do not EVER belong in the same sentence. His whole career was a litany of seizing power, deception of friends and enemies and persuasion by brute force.

And, Fahrenbahn, you also blindly take every word Hitler says as hearfelt truth and every word said by those who know better as deceptive. There is no conversation here, but lots of comedy. Good thing you have no power or influence over anything. You'd have to learn that you would be stopped no matter what the cost. You couldn't afford to defend yourself against the consolidated resources of the rest of humanity any more than Hitler, who was much more capable, could.

The end would be the same. John F Kennedy said "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." He was not kidding. He was totally sincere. He echoed the thoughts and wishes of his people. Hitler never did.

[Fahnenbohn]