The Coup D'etat of November 1963

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've already shown that to be false, yet you continue to bull your way on with this line. You seem to like to ignore any evidence that goes against your pet theories.

I have always felt that it is difficult for people to accept the truth because this was not something that happens in the US.

It's not a matter of accepting the truth. It's a matter of accepting to be "true" that which is not proven. You have as much trouble accepting the truth as anyone.


It's not incomprehensible or disturbing. In fact nothing is beyond belief. We're just waiting for you to offer some real evidence.[/QUOTE]


I watched the footage with my own two eyes, it reminds me of shooting cantaloupes when I was a kid, sometimes if bullet impacted right or left of center, it blew out the side and back, exactly what it looked like in this case.That combined with how he snapped back, indicating a bullet impact from the front, to the side, perhaps with a sharp angle.

http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html


These photos clearly show the side/back of his head blown out, indicating an exit wound.Had the bullet entered from the back, the front and side would have been blown out.Kennedy's movements from the impact(back and slumped to the left) match the damage his head suffered.

The official story(like so many the government puts out) just makes no sense, it is inconsistent with the evidence.Putting the debate over the direction of the head shot, the magic bullet along with multiple accounts of shots coming from the grassy knoll, reports of hearing more than 3 shots, and the nearly impossible shots from where Oswald allegedly fired, proves a conspiracy, more than one shooter.

The government covered this up, hell one of the likely chief conspirators was on the warren commission(Allen Dulles), the misinformation campaign was partially successful but the evidence,witness reports and the zapruder film most of all, makes things obvious.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mapuc

So Bubblehead1980 mentioned many different motive to the assassin

Have not yet seen any mentioned the possibility that the motive could have something to do with the history of the Kennedy family

This could very well be the reason to why RFK also got killed.

I'm not saying this IS the correct motive behind the death of the two men from the Kennedy clan.

Markus

I have considered that but feel that JFK would have been killed before he made it to the oval office if that were true.The mafia was pretty sore at JFK and RFK and believe they were involved, can't deny Ruby's mafia connections nor some others.I believe the shooters were most likely mafia hitmen, mafia may have been contracted to carry out the hit.The movie JFK suggested they were likely flown in for the job, then quickly led out of the country.Mafia still had a solid and strong code of silence back in those days.They helped JFK get elected and were angry about him making RFK Attorney General and letting him go after the Mafia.

RFK's murder was much less "messy", they had a crazed nut do it, it was captured on live TV, could see it was one shooter, but have no doubt there was more to it.The establishment feared RFK, especially that if elected he would pursue a real investigation of his brother's murder, enact many of same policies.People just hate to imagine there are so many shadowy things going on in our country, but it happens.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Best quote in the article!

I think some wild theories are a form of grieving.However, in the case of JFK a conspiracy is backed by the evidence.Many witnesses report shots from grassy knoll, report more than 3 shots.Those wounded could not have possibly been wounded by just two bullets. That is why one the zapruder film became public, there was such outcry.People saw something much different than they were told and evidence contradicts the government's story.I think most people(60% is a number I have seen thrown around) believe there was a conspiracy, now just need to clear up the details of who, and why.Fairly easy to establish this and believe the government knows, one day the full truth will perhaps see the light.I just want the record set straight so those involved like LBJ are seen for what they were and not given respect and honor, especially before enough time goes by that no one alive in that time period is around to tell the truth.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I watched the footage with my own two eyes, it reminds me of shooting cantaloupes when I was a kid, sometimes if bullet impacted right or left of center, it blew out the side and back, exactly what it looked like in this case.That combined with how he snapped back, indicating a bullet impact from the front, to the side, perhaps with a sharp angle.

Except for the part where in the film the spray is clearly flying forward.

These photos clearly show the side/back of his head blown out, indicating an exit wound.Had the bullet entered from the back, the front and side would have been blown out.Kennedy's movements from the impact(back and slumped to the left) match the damage his head suffered.

I already quoted the right-side photo. My quote showed diagrams of the head, and the part that was blown out was the center, neither front nor back. From that alone the bullet could have entered from either direction.

The official story(like so many the government puts out) just makes no sense, it is inconsistent with the evidence.

It only makes no sense to you because you are already convinced that you know the truth, and you don't. You've said that bit about inconsistency and evidence many times, yet you've failed to show the inconsistency. It's what you want to believe. As I've said, I don't pretend to know one way or the other, but what you keep claiming as "proof" is nothing of the kind.

Putting the debate over the direction of the head shot

Nothing proven. It has been shown that the shot could have easily come from either direction.

the magic bullet

Only "magic" if the subjects were sitting a certain way. It has been shown that it would be easy for them to be sitting in another position and the bullet suddenly travels in a straight line. Not "magic" at all.

along with multiple accounts of shots coming from the grassy knoll, reports of hearing more than 3 shots

Also multiple accounts of other things that couldn't possibly have happened, and from the same witnesses.

and the nearly impossible shots from where Oswald allegedly fired

What "impossible shots" would those be. It has been shown many times that Oswald could easily have made those shots, yet you keep ignoring that.

proves a conspiracy, more than one shooter.

Proves nothing at all. If there was proof, there wouldn't be all these people still trying to prove it. So far you have no proof at all, just the claims and the willingness to believe.

one of the likely chief conspirators

Again you have to resort to allegation, because there is nothing else. Either you have proof of a conspiracy or you don't. So far you don't, despite what you keep claiming.

makes things obvious.

Only to someone who already believes. Your mind is made up, and you keep arguing "facts" that have been shown to be wrong, or at least questionable, and ignoring everything to the contrary.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Except for the part where in the film the spray is clearly flying forward.


I already quoted the right-side photo. My quote showed diagrams of the head, and the part that was blown out was the center, neither front nor back. From that alone the bullet could have entered from either direction.


It only makes no sense to you because you are already convinced that you know the truth, and you don't. You've said that bit about inconsistency and evidence many times, yet you've failed to show the inconsistency. It's what you want to believe. As I've said, I don't pretend to know one way or the other, but what you keep claiming as "proof" is nothing of the kind.


Nothing proven. It has been shown that the shot could have easily come from either direction.


Only "magic" if the subjects were sitting a certain way. It has been shown that it would be easy for them to be sitting in another position and the bullet suddenly travels in a straight line. Not "magic" at all.


Also multiple accounts of other things that couldn't possibly have happened, and from the same witnesses.


What "impossible shots" would those be. It has been shown many times that Oswald could easily have made those shots, yet you keep ignoring that.


Proves nothing at all. If there was proof, there wouldn't be all these people still trying to prove it. So far you have no proof at all, just the claims and the willingness to believe.


Again you have to resort to allegation, because there is nothing else. Either you have proof of a conspiracy or you don't. So far you don't, despite what you keep claiming.


Only to someone who already believes. Your mind is made up, and you keep arguing "facts" that have been shown to be wrong, or at least questionable, and ignoring everything to the contrary.

The "forward" spray is from the side/back blowout, some blew forward as his head snaps back, you know from the frontal impact. Any diagrams, esp ones put forth by the government are suspect, they do not match the photographic or video evidence nor correlate with the many of the eye witnesses testimony.

For a long time I accepted Oswald was the shooter until I looked into it.Once I understood about the old guard in the CIA at the time, Dulles, Helms etc, Kennedy taking on the old guard, the military-industrial complex, the federal reserve and the connections were made over the years.Understanding how dirty LBJ was and his connections to this, it makes a lot of sense.Much like in court, it's not always what you know, it is what you can prove.A lot of people tend to take the official word of the government and did until the zapruder film came out, so much has came out over the years.Evidence is pretty overwhelming showing a conspiracy, showing more than one shooter and the visual evidence clearly shows he was hit in the front/side of the head, despite the lies pushed by the officials.E Howard Hunt's deathbed confession.Congressman Hale Boggs of the Warren Commission(who died under mysterious circumstances) disagreed with the one shooter verdict of the commission.

[TarJak]

Now you are just being ridiculous. Not a lot of what you are saying makes any sense at all. Your assertion that the shot came from the front flies in the face of the same evidence you claim proves your point.

You show an autopsy photo but ignore the actual testimony of the doctors that were there and a photo from the same procedure that clearly shows an entry wound in the back of Kennedy's head.

You make wild accusations of a conspiracy based on nothing other than your own belief in the conspiracy. Yet again you are showing yourself up as a self absorbed child without the maturity to look at something objectively.

As a lawyer in training you should pay better attention to the actual evidence rather than listening to the child inside that shouts that it knows everything and listens to nothing.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

These photos clearly show the side/back of his head blown out, indicating an exit wound.Had the bullet entered from the back, the front and side would have been blown out.Kennedy's movements from the impact(back and slumped to the left) match the damage his head suffered.

Except for this one which clearly show sthe back of his head intact:

The other photo's are consistent with an exit would from the entry wound in the back of his head.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Yet again you are showing yourself up as a self absorbed child without the maturity to look at something objectively.

That reminds me of me.

Time to rethink my life

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

The "forward" spray is from the side/back blowout, some blew forward as his head snaps back, you know from the frontal impact.

No. Spray follows the path of the bullet that made it. It all blows forward in the film, not some.

For a long time I accepted Oswald was the shooter until I looked into it.

One has to wonder exactly how deeply you did look into it.

Understanding how dirty LBJ was and his connections to this, it makes a lot of sense.

Yes, it does make sense when looked at it the right way. That doesn't make it remotely true.

Much like in court, it's not always what you know, it is what you can prove.

Come again? You keep speaking of what you "know", and yet you can prove nothing.

Evidence is pretty overwhelming showing a conspiracy

Only if you already believe it. I've shown that the evidence in hand can be taken either way.

showing more than one shooter and the visual evidence clearly shows he was hit in the front/side of the head

Showing nothing of the kind, unless you already see it that way. The wound itself shows no frontal entry or rear exit. The damage is all on the side. It has been shown by shooters here that the head can snap either way when hit, especially by a bullet that passes through.

despite the lies pushed by the officials.

E Howard Hunt's deathbed confession.

The same E. Howard Hunt who had a long reputation for lying about various things, including forging documents? He could be telling the truth, or he might not have been.

Congressman Hale Boggs of the Warren Commission(who died under mysterious circumstances) disagreed with the one shooter verdict of the commission.

There's nothing mysterious about it. The plane he was on disappeared. It was never found. Whatever his relationship to the investigations, it happens all the time. Conspiracy theorists are convinced he was gotten rid of. There is no evidence at all one way or the other, no matter how "mysterious" you may find it.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Showing nothing of the kind, unless you already see it that way. The wound itself shows no frontal entry or rear exit. The damage is all on the side. It has been shown by shooters here that the head can snap either way when hit, especially by a bullet that passes through.

That and the fact that the was an entry wound in the back of Kennedy's head.

[Betonov]

There was a Mythbusters episode, where they showed that the target knocks back with the same force the gun kicks back at the shooter. Not much since guns don't usually knock back shooters.

A front shot would not have knocked JFKs head back that much.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Except for this one which clearly show sthe back of his head intact:

The other photo's are consistent with an exit would from the entry wound in the back of his head.

Look at his head, it is not intact

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Now you are just being ridiculous. Not a lot of what you are saying makes any sense at all. Your assertion that the shot came from the front flies in the face of the same evidence you claim proves your point.

You show an autopsy photo but ignore the actual testimony of the doctors that were there and a photo from the same procedure that clearly shows an entry wound in the back of Kennedy's head.

You make wild accusations of a conspiracy based on nothing other than your own belief in the conspiracy. Yet again you are showing yourself up as a self absorbed child without the maturity to look at something objectively.

As a lawyer in training you should pay better attention to the actual evidence rather than listening to the child inside that shouts that it knows everything and listens to nothing.

There you go again, getting personal.I have looked at the evidence from both sides, it why I switched my belief from the lone wolf, single shooter named Oswald to believing he was in fact a patsy for the actual assassins.I learned who Allen Dulles, Richard Helms were, I learned about the Federal Reserve, LBJ and others.The many who suddenly began dying, it's called tying up loose ends.Steve, where are thou? Personal attacks and all.

No, I base what I said here, on what I saw and my experiences with firearms etc. The evidence the government presented is garbage, it does not fit.The triangulation of fire is what clearly happened, I once bought the government's bs on this coup d'etat but it just does not fit.The house committee later found his assassination was a conspiracy.

Look at the photos I posted, back and right side of his head wiped out, skin flap held on part of the skull, his hair looks "wet", it's from the blood and brain matter blown out by the bullet, if bullet entered from the back, it would be the front and side of his head blown out, not the back and right side.Bullet entered around the temple, above it, perhaps right at or behind the harline.

The autopsy is questionable, they rushed him away from Dallas against Texas lawto let Doctors they could control, ie military perform the autopsy.Doctors who did see him at the hospital have told different stories.Then they "lost" his brain lol, that sure helps muddy the waters.This is classic disinformation crap, it apparently works on some people who smugly say "well I believe the government because you can't give me the exact evidence I want", the evidence that the government has hidden or destroyed.Even though there is a lot of evidence supporting multiple shooters, some continue to deny.Easier to live in the bubble I suppose..

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Look at the photos I posted, back and right side of his head wiped out, skin flap held on part of the skull, his hair looks "wet", it's from the blood and brain matter blown out by the bullet, if bullet entered from the back, it would be the front and side of his head blown out, not the back and right side.Bullet entered around the temple, above it, perhaps right at or behind the harline.

You've never heard of gravity have you? By the time those photos were taken, the body was lying on its back for several hours giving plenty of time for fluids from the wounds to matt the hair. It didn;t have to have come from the moment the wound occurred and probably didn't given he was shot in the back of the head.

What caused the entry wound in the back of his head? You keep ignoring evidence where it doesn't suit you.

The autopsy is questionable, they rushed him away from Dallas against Texas lawto let Doctors they could control, ie military perform the autopsy.Doctors who did see him at the hospital have told different stories.Then they "lost" his brain lol, that sure helps muddy the waters.This is classic disinformation crap, it apparently works on some people who smugly say "well I believe the government because you can't give me the exact evidence I want", the evidence that the government has hidden or destroyed.Even though there is a lot of evidence supporting multiple shooters, some continue to deny.Easier to live in the bubble I suppose..

You can't have it both ways. Either the evidence from the autopsy is rubbish or not, yet you use the photos to support your conspiracy theory.

In order to believe in a JFK conspiracy, we'd probably also have to believe that every member of the Warren Commission panel was up to no good, with all of these guys rigging the Warren Report to paint Lee Oswald as a sole assassin (and the lone killer of Dallas city policeman J.D. Tippit as well).

And in such a "conspiracy mindset", it would also almost assuredly mean that many, many members of the House Select Committee On Assassinations in the late 1970s were also no-good, lying SOBs too -- because that committee came to the same basic conclusion that the Warren boys did in 1964, when it came down to the question of: "How Many Bullets Struck the victims; With the answer being:
only 2 shots hit any of the victims in the President's limousine; & both of those bullets came from behind the vehicle. The physical evidence backs that up regardless of what you think you know.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Betonov

There was a Mythbusters episode, where they showed that the target knocks back with the same force the gun kicks back at the shooter. Not much since guns don't usually knock back shooters.

That is really just simple physics a person that never fired a gun in their life but that understood even basic physics would know that the recoil of a weapon is going to be equal (or roughly) to the bullets forward force.

Of course it seems that most people use Hollywood as a source for scientific fact and since in most films and TV shows the person gets blown across the room they assume that to be true.

With a living person or animal the reaction to a bullet strike can vary greatly depending on many factors.You can hit two deer in the heart with a .308 with the same rifle at the same range and they both will react differently drop differently or maybe they get of a few bounds before they expire and the other one does not you never know for sure.