Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Skybird

that weapon inspectors already are underway in Syria

Underway? They are situated in Damascus, but thats about it.

They need to get access to be able to verify if Nerve gas (and that is what is alleged to have been used) was used. Which it is almost certainly the case.

So far, no access for them.

Underway? They are situated in Damascus, but thats about it.

They need to get access to be able to verify if Nerve gas (and that is what is alleged to have been used) was used. Which it is almost certainly the case.

So far, no access for them.

And as such is the situation they need the approval of the government and the various rebels, also whichever specific armed group holds that particular area and whichever specific armed groups hold the neighbouring areas.
It takes a lot of negotiating with a lot of groups to allow a bunch of foreigners to go poking around the neighbourhood in any degree of safety.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

And as such is the situation they need the approval of the government and the various rebels, also whichever specific armed group holds that particular area and whichever specific armed groups hold the neighbouring areas.
It takes a lot of negotiating with a lot of groups to allow a bunch of foreigners to go poking around the neighbourhood in any degree of safety.

Indeed.

Never mind about not letting them in because (possibly) you have something to hide.

[Feuer Frei!]

Under Analysis:

as a clearer picture begins to emerge of the alleged attack and its consequences, some experts say they are becoming more convinced that a nerve agent may have been used.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23806491

23 August 2013 Last updated at 01:22 GMT

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I think VX was possibly used. If I remember correctly it in sufficient dose causes paralysis in whole body and especially in muscles around lungs. Latter causes death by suffocation.

This is based completely on memory though so I maybe wrong... Its also possible that I mix up symptoms with some other nerve agent.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I think VX was possibly used. If I remember correctly it in sufficient dose causes paralysis in whole body and especially in muscles around lungs. Latter causes death by suffocation.

This is based completely on memory though so I maybe wrong... Its also possible that I mix up symptoms with some other nerve agent.

This will jog your memory perhaps?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/vx/index.asp

As for other forms:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencyp...des/nerve.html

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

This will jog your memory perhaps?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/vx/index.asp

As for other forms:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencyp...des/nerve.html

Thanks! It has been quite long time since I last read of this stuff.

[Skybird]

It is interesting to remember that there is some inside-Syria observer group - I forgot the name but it often gets mentioned in news reports when reporting from Iraq, I just read it this morning again - with known close ties to the rebels, that this group so far still is hesitant to confirm that there has been a chemical event at all.

Could be because they know it was not Assad, but their friends. Could be because they still have no final verdict. Could be the deliver the evidence right now while I'm typing. Could be that there indeed was no event. Well, an event it was, but maybe not what is claimed it was.

The inspectors in Syria right now, as far as I remember form the news have permission to go to three places, all of which are low in priority and possibility to create evidence against Assad. That is what I mean when laughing about politicians demand that Assad and the rebels should allow inspections. It reminds me of one scene from the movie "V Vendetta" where the masked man asks Natalie Portman whether she doesn't find it amusing herself that she asks a masked man who he is. That question is pointless in itself, and the demands to allow inspectors in are pointless in themselves. One could as well ask on TV who the bank robber is, and tell him that he should raise his hand voluntarily and hand himself over to the police. One could also declare crime illegal, and forbid lying. Certainly would help a lot.

[Sammi79]

A new report pins chemical attack on Assad (Al-Jazeera news)

!warning! - briefly shows the original video of the victims in the hospital.



In the interview an American expert explains his views on the design and capacity of the weapons after looking at the photographic evidence.

I'm not sure exactly when this next video surfaced, it is totally unverifiable by me in any way, but I found it interesting:



that at ~1.32 the stabilizer fin being held by a disembodied hand in the top left corner looks incredibly similar in design and proportion to the photographic evidence of the rockets used in the most recent chemical attack. Note also the size of the blue cylinder that I assume would carry the munitions packed round the dispersal charge. Granted the ones used in the recent attack are larger.

That is not to say that this video couldn't have been faked by either side, I think you'd have to be a bit simple to be filming it in the first place.

But those weapons don't look very advanced to me.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

A new report pins chemical attack on Assad (Al-Jazeera news)

So is it the American expert that pins the blame on Assad?

The French did it 2 - 3 days ago.

Sorry, i don't click on youtube links (no offense to you).

EDIT: Western Intelligence Agencies. Ok.

Rockets carrying 50 times more nerve agent then first thought.

So how does this pin the blame on Assad? By the amount used.
Because the reasoning is that the Rebels wouldn't have that much nerve gas to begin with?

And after checking out the youtube comments. it's getting a hammering.
Propaganda. No real evidence. All fair points.

[Skybird]

Immediate concerns regarding Iran?

Swarming speedboats in the gulf flooding Navy defences. Mines in the strait of Hormuz. Attacks on soft targets in Iraq. Strikes in Afghanistan. Hezbollanian rumble from Lebanon. Missiles on Israel.

The Iranian F-14s honestly I do not have on my list of prominent threats anymore. Are they even operational anymore? I imagine they are easy to track once they are airborne. Just follow the trail of spareparts falling from them.

Implications: Turkey drawn deep into military conflict. Kurdish upraise spreading from Syria and Iraq to Turkey and Iran. Israel being drawn into it. Jordan toppling. Saudi regime challenged by unrest. Gulf regimes threatened by unrest.

The only positive variable: Egypt's return to fighting the influence of the MB.

[Oberon]

IIRC Irans F14s haven't flown in a while, certainly not en masse, spares are a bit of a problem and the sanctions have hit them hard, the Iranian airforce is not in good shape, but it could certainly put up a couple of fighters, 29s most likely, but they wouldn't cope very well against the USAF, not in a direct one on one situation. So I don't think they'd put themselves in that situation where they would have to directly confront the USAF.
Asymmetrical warfare is a possibility, but we thought Saddam would do that and he didn't, so it's 50/50, after all in the immortal words of Condie Rice, 'Iran is not Iraq'.

[Feuer Frei!]

Iran has Mig 29's, F-5's and a few Mirage F1's.

Mirage F1:

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Oberon

IIRC Irans F14s haven't flown in a while, certainly not en masse, spares are a bit of a problem and the sanctions have hit them hard, the Iranian airforce is not in good shape, but it could certainly put up a couple of fighters, 29s most likely, but they wouldn't cope very well against the USAF, not in a direct one on one situation. So I don't think they'd put themselves in that situation where they would have to directly confront the USAF.
Asymmetrical warfare is a possibility, but we thought Saddam would do that and he didn't, so it's 50/50, after all in the immortal words of Condie Rice, 'Iran is not Iraq'.

Iran only operates a dozen or so F-14s but those ones are actually quite decently maintained, they have also fitted them for Russian R-27 missiles.

One of the currently operational ones with the new camo pattern:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Iran has Mig 29's, F-5's and a few Mirage F1's.

Mirage F1:

<snip>

Some of Iran's Mirages just got an overhaul at Shahid Nasser Habibi air base.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

So is it the American expert that pins the blame on Assad?

Sorry, i don't click on youtube links (no offense to you).

I only put that as the title of the news piece itself. Don't worry, the irony was not lost on me.

If you don't want to look at them, that's fine. The news piece was a link from the Guardian website, if that makes any difference. As I warned it is ultimately depressing anyway - and it is not my intent to tug at heart strings I leave that to the global media.

The point is, Camorons main argument (which mimics that from US/FR/DE admins amongst several others) is that the weapons are too big and/or complex for the FSA+associates to have in their arsenal. I suppose they would ask us to trust their intelligence about exactly what these 'rebels' capabilities and equipment are. Maybe they are just looking at their receipts...

I just wanted to point out that the photographic evidence for the used rockets in the relevant attack showed weapons with no apparent degree of complexity at least non greater than very slightly smaller allegedly home made versions. So you need a bigger gun or maybe a tube launcher of some sort.

The whole situation is completely absurd. Do the leaders of our nations have any credibility left? is there any way we can trust them on this vague circumstantial deduction? Is there the faintest possibility that this time they are telling the truth? Not excluding Putin of course, though currently he does a much better job of at least appearing rational.

Something needs to change badly. Not over there in Syria, but here in our countries.

And now, they are just beginning to know that we know.
[edit] We really need to keep our eyes on our own countries and leaders if we really want to help the 'global' situation.