Emperor to sign UN Arms Treaty while Congress in recess?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by donna52522

Now I don't know what kind of deal you have with Mr. Stevens, but if you wish me to leave just say so.

First, why would I want you to leave? I like you, and have from the start. My deal with Neal is that he tells me when I've gone too far, which is often.

But what I don't need is to know that every time I post Sailor Steve is going to pick my post apart and try to make me feel like a jerk for expressing my opinion.

You posted first to defend Bubblehead1980. That's not only fine, that's commendable. My response to you was purely defensive. That may have been an overreaction on my part, because looking at it again I see that your first post was in response to Mookiemookie, not me. I was wrong there and I apologize.

I was also out of line when I told Bubblehead that if it was up to me I would brig him every time he did that sort of thing. I said he should think himself lucky it's not up to me, but that also applies to me. If I was in charge there would probably be a lot less members.

And no, none of this is in response to anything Neal has said to me. The only thing he's asked me in this regard is why I respond to this kind of thread at all.

Your second response was on the money. Nobody has to read or respond to any post. My personal problem there is that that will never happen. People who disagree will argue, and people who think the post was less than it could have been will say so as well. Yes, my 'job' is to keep things clean and enforce the rules. The problem there is that I've been having this runaround with Bubblehead for far longer than I've been moderating. Sometimes I end up playing referee, warning or even infracting people who post insulting comments that don't even address the topic, but I do go after some of them more than others, not because I want to pick on them, but because I truly believe they could be better than that.

My real problem is that I like to talk to people, and sometimes I find it hard just to ignore them.

My response to your "forced conformity" comment was purely defensive. I'm not trying to make anybody conform to anything but the rules. At least I like to think that's the case. On the other hand when I see that somebody is what I think of as borderline trolling, I feel the need to say something, especially when I don't think he means it that way. I don't think you can have a proper debate when one of the parties is 100% convince he's right. I said long ago that if you think you know everything it's impossible for you to learn anything. Of course it's not my job to enforce proper debate either, but sometimes I truly do believe I can help. Most of the time I'm wrong, but I keep hoping.

So most of my responses to you were me thinking I was defending myself. If that came across to you as an attack, then I apologize. It wasn't meant that way; just the opposite.

Cybermat mentioned your Best Of Subsim badge. As I recall I was the one who nominated you in the first place. In case you're still wondering, that's what I think of you.

[Cybermat47]

This thread seems to be affecting some of the members here in a bad way. I called in an expert to give his opinion...

Originally Posted by My Expert AKA The Joker

If I post a thread about a new puppy, or practical jokes, everyone stays calm, because it's something everyone can agree on. But if I post a thread about how Obama is a tyrant...

Well then everyone loses their minds!

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Basically, a lot of people in here are supportive of dear leader and dislike my remarks about him, I get it.I'll attempt to tone it down and see how it works.I assure you, they will continue to act the same.

You see Bubblehead - this is where you have a little considering to do. Those who blindly support the "dear leader" don't care about the truth. No amount of reality is going to change their minds. Yell it from the mountaintops, they will simply cover their ears. The tone you use doesn't matter - to them.

Where it does matter - is to those on the fence. When you have an honest debate, instead of simply spew "dislike" or talking points that can be proven skewed or inaccurate - you turn those people on the fence, away from your side. The moment you resort to stretching the truth when the truth is evident if one merely glances at it - or the moment you start something out with vitriol - you become just one more yelling voice in the sea of yelling voices. Some pro, some con - but all just a big overlapping noise that convinces no one.

On the other hand, if you make a reasoned, fact based argument, you have a good shot at winning the day for your viewpoint. To paraphrase Rush Limbaugh - "Liberals can not win in the arena of ideas". Because of this, they yell and scream and insult and lie (No - not all of them - but the ones that get the media attention). They know they can't win in the arena of ideas or of truth, so they distract and count on volume instead of accuracy. When you resort to the same type of tactics - you end up getting discounted right along with rest.

It is folks (of either political "stripe") that can - either consistently or even occasionally - come to the arena of ideas (and truth) and argue their points and perspectives with reason and dignity - that not only win the day, but often find very common ground with their opponents. In those cases, it is surprising how often real solutions can be created. You also might learn that some on the "other side" are not so bad. For example, Mookie and I disagree on a LOT of things, but I have found that we usually are not nearly as far apart as one might imagine... Volume counts for less than substance to many.....

Or else you can be mistaken for, as Shakespeare once wrote and General Chang quoted like no other Master Thespian could have done:

"..... an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Don't be that guy.

[Takeda Shingen]

Here's a helpful flowchart that I've been referring to lately in an attempt to break my old habits of internet discourse. Very useful.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Here's a helpful flowchart that I've been referring to lately in an attempt to break my old habits of internet discourse. Very useful.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of an argument, and I quote from merriam-webster, a "discourse intended to persuade"?

Now, for me at least, the thing is, very seldomly has any discourse with anyone on the internet successfully persuaded me of anything. For me to change my mind about something I have already formed an opinion on, I have to do it myself. Nobody can do this for me. Least of all on internet forums. Frankly, there is always some degree of credibility that is lacking when conversing with a faceless person you have never met, who like everyone else, is using an assumed fictitious name.

(Insert "I saw it on the internet so it must be true" meme here)

I "assume" most people are the same way, if they realize it or not, or admit it or not. So i conclude that the reason for the back and forth, is only self justification. Personally I may argue my point once or twice, out of pride or conviction, but at some point it is best to just let it go because your not going to convince anyone of anything. Beyond that, there's always the ignore list.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

You see Bubblehead - this is where you have a little considering to do. Those who blindly support the "dear leader" don't care about the truth. No amount of reality is going to change their minds. Yell it from the mountaintops, they will simply cover their ears. The tone you use doesn't matter - to them.

Where it does matter - is to those on the fence. When you have an honest debate, instead of simply spew "dislike" or talking points that can be proven skewed or inaccurate - you turn those people on the fence, away from your side. The moment you resort to stretching the truth when the truth is evident if one merely glances at it - or the moment you start something out with vitriol - you become just one more yelling voice in the sea of yelling voices. Some pro, some con - but all just a big overlapping noise that convinces no one.

On the other hand, if you make a reasoned, fact based argument, you have a good shot at winning the day for your viewpoint. To paraphrase Rush Limbaugh - "Liberals can not win in the arena of ideas". Because of this, they yell and scream and insult and lie (No - not all of them - but the ones that get the media attention). They know they can't win in the arena of ideas or of truth, so they distract and count on volume instead of accuracy. When you resort to the same type of tactics - you end up getting discounted right along with rest.

It is folks (of either political "stripe") that can - either consistently or even occasionally - come to the arena of ideas (and truth) and argue their points and perspectives with reason and dignity - that not only win the day, but often find very common ground with their opponents. In those cases, it is surprising how often real solutions can be created. You also might learn that some on the "other side" are not so bad. For example, Mookie and I disagree on a LOT of things, but I have found that we usually are not nearly as far apart as one might imagine... Volume counts for less than substance to many.....

Or else you can be mistaken for, as Shakespeare once wrote and General Chang quoted like no other Master Thespian could have done:

"..... an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Don't be that guy.

The things I say are true though, that is why it is frustrating, the evidence has been there and is.

People who supported obama act so shocked by his actions, but it was so apparent even in 2008, all people had to do was READ.Onr could easily see the man is not someone who should be president as his entire life he has been opposed to what the US is. Now, watch people who continue to support him despite his failures.This is because don't want to admit they are wrong or are so brainwashed or hung up on certain identity issues(race, class etc) they can't see things objectively.No, I do not give up because I have watched people find the truth since 2008 and move away from him and the great source of evil known as the Democratic Party, I know for over 10 people, I managed to get them to look into things, and they changed their minds.Now, this is online forum so it's a bit more difficult.Definitely debate better in person and this being online forum, suppose I never take it as serious.

People on the fence annoy me as well, how, at this point, can you be on the fence? The crimes of this man are so apparent, so easy to see.I think of my mother(sadly) who just does not pay attention, she gets annoyed about obamacare etc as it affects business but she does not pay attention even as an educated person, she is more concerned with other things. I often see people on the fence as indecisive, wishy washy, unprincipled people who offer nothing to the process but yes, they are one's we must reach.

I can never agree with someone like mookie, everything is about race for him, or class, people like that are just not someone I can agree with.I worry about ALL citizens, regardless of what color they are or how much money because in the end, unless you fall in line with obama and his beliefs, you are the enemy and even then, as the press(his number 1 cheerleader) has found out, there is not loyalty for him, he does not care, he sees himself as above us all, much like an emperor no? That was the point of calling him an emperor, he acts like one, sees himself as one.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

The things I say are true though, that is why it is frustrating, the evidence has been there and is.

No, you believe they are true. That doesn't make them so. Providing evidence is what you've been asked to do, and failed at. Providing evidence would demonstrate why you believe the things to be true, and possibly convince others.

Repeatedly failing to show evidence and repeatedly bringing in false evidence makes you the butt of jokes, not someone the can be argued with.

[soopaman2]

This could have been a so much more constructive thread if the OP did not taint the thread with rhetoric in the title.

I could care less what lame duck Obama tries to do...

But where where you and your Emporer titles when Bush was pushing through the Patriot act, and calling anyone who opposed him unpatriotic and getting them ostacized?

Leave the partisan nonsense at home. Obama is almost gone, just deal with it until then. Not like congress doesn't try to reverse everything he does anyways.

Good or bad.

What are you scared of? All Obama did was continue the same oppressive right taking away policy the other guys started.

Just yell at the telescreen when Emannuel Goldstein comes on, and you "might" not get hit by a drone.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by razark

No, you believe they are true. That doesn't make them so. Providing evidence is what you've been asked to do, and failed at. Providing evidence would demonstrate why you believe the things to be true, and possibly convince others.

Repeatedly failing to show evidence and repeatedly bringing in false evidence makes you the butt of jokes, not someone the can be argued with.

Okay. Evidence? Take your pick? Let's go to the base of it, understand who this man is.Barack Hussein Obama II is a marxist at heart.Frank Marshall Davis, a rabid communist was his mentor as a young man, this is documented fact. Obama's mother and grandparents were leftists.Now, he was raised that and his entire adult life, he has clung to this ideology.NOw, in his book "Dreams From My Father" Obama admits to searching out the "politically active black students, the marxists, the chicanos" in order to not be seen as a "sell out" . Some say, oh he was young.Okay, then he attends Reverend Wright's church which preaches "Black Liberation Theology" for 20 plus years until this exposed in 2008.

Actions as president? Refusing to prosecute the black panthers for voter intimidation, calling the Cambridge Police "Stupid" and assuming racism when it was his friend, Henry Louis Gates who was acting disorderly.Jumping on the side of Trayvon Martin, his attacks on business, constantly seeking way sto raise taxes, demonizing financial success, playing class warfare, circumventing the constitution via executive orders , etc. All this goes back to at his core, he is a marxist and sees the US as not a good place from it's core, one that must be changed.People are entitled to believe this garbage but it does disqualify them from being president(perhaps not legally) as it means at his core, he holds views absolutely counter to what is in best interests of america.This is why he is nearly always on the wrong side of issues.Who this man is at his core is what makes him dangerous, he is someone that does not believe in our way of life really, he believes in a powerful government that can right the wrongs as he sees them, even if he is opposed by majority of people.The build up of the DHS etc shows he is prepared for events like what are going on in Egypt. Honestly, I see the trouble coming when his time to leave office comes in, I see him trying to find a way to stay in power.

Now, for him crimes? Benghazi coverup , IRS targeting his opponents, drone strikes on us citizens which are tantamount to summary execution, NSA scandal etc Sure, he is smart enough to maintain plausible deniability but one can simply look into things, know the nature of this man and will know he has a hand in all this.Kind of like in court, can't always prove something but the truth is obvious. All this shows disregard for the constitution and the rule of law.This man, acts like an emperor and not the president a constitutional republic.

Like I said, the aggravation stems from it is so easy to see and has been from the start with obama, even if nothing ever happens, the fact we have such a radical who lied about who he is to get into office should be the wake up call.I get angry when I hear people(it happens often, mostly recently two middle aged white ladies in a olive garden, my girlfriend and I were sitting in booth behind him, could overhear them chatting about how shocked they are etc etc with obama and what he has done etc. Really, took everything I could to not go say something.People like that are why we are, where we are now.They were duped but not because obama was that good, but because they were moronic enough to fall for it.Kind of like people who fall for stupid scams, just makes me shake my head.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

This could have been a so much more constructive thread if the OP did not taint the thread with rhetoric in the title.

I could care less what lame duck Obama tries to do...

But where where you and your Emporer titles when Bush was pushing through the Patriot act, and calling anyone who opposed him unpatriotic and getting them ostacized?

Leave the partisan nonsense at home. Obama is almost gone, just deal with it until then. Not like congress doesn't try to reverse everything he does anyways.

Good or bad.

What are you scared of? All Obama did was continue the same oppressive right taking away policy the other guys started.

Just yell at the telescreen when Emannuel Goldstein comes on, and you "might" not get hit by a drone.

I was much younger when Bush was elected, when 9/11 happened and was not as aware of things.I supported him and did have a problem with the PATRIOT Act from day one. Funny thing was, Bush was at his core, a good person, an American, who had the best interest at heart.Bush's problem was he was not an intellectual.Stupid? Absolutely not but he is not an intellectual and over his head, which is why he relied on Dick Cheney etc so much, Bush was more of a figurehead and did not act like an emperor so he did not deserve the title.Bush was not a marxist at his core.Essentially George Bush is a good man, but was not really qualified to be President and once there, he relied too much upon his neocon circle, including Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld etc. Best of intentions but was just out of his league.

No, Obama has taken it much further. Bush was not using drones on American citizens(to my knowledge) which as tantamount to summary executions, a denial of due process. Bush was not trying to take away the second amendment rights of americans.Bush was not fostering class and racial division as obama blatantly has done.Bush did not shove something such as obamacare down our throats. Bush was not a great president, his major mistake was the iraq war and allowing the neocons to influence him .

Your remarks about just sit back and let the lame duck go, dont worry are a bit naive.Obama is dangerous as long as he holds power and I assure you the big political fight will be in few years as his term ends, he will attempt to find a way to stay in office.Some manufacture crisis will occur, esp if the polls are not looking good for democrats. That is a large problem right now, so many americans take it for granted we will just weather the storm, get rid of him via the process and things will be okay.People like obama do not play by the rules, so we cant count on that.Plus, the damage he has done already will probably affect you and I for rest of our lives, his assault on healthcare is the number one thing.The evidence is already there what havoc this monstrosity of law is causing and will continue to cause and should he luck up and get the house back under dem control, we have much to worry about.


This is not partisanship, this is truth.I saw a thing the other day that said "When I was in school studying the holocaust, I always wondering how Hitler got 6 million people to follow blindly without a fight? Then I realized my fellow americans are taking the same path" I am not calling obama hitler, he has not earned that comparison as of yet.I am saying the way people underestimate the threat that he poses, amazes me.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Okay. Evidence? Take your pick?

I'd like to. Are you going to post some, or just rant for a bit, throw out assertions, and declare how obvious it is that you are right?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by razark

I'd like to. Are you going to post some, or just rant for a bit, throw out assertions, and declare how obvious it is that you are right?

I just offered up a plethora of things that are easily researched and oh so obvious.Benghazi, drone strikes on us citizens etc .Oh I forgot him having the justice department go after journalists via the espionage act, trying to get their sources but they are refusing.This is nothing more than persecuting the press. This is not me making things up, look it up, easy to do.Like I have said a million times, to understand who the man is at his core, read his book Dreams from My Father.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I've had just about enough of you, mookie

Really, now? Do tell. Actually, don't. My give a poop factor on who has had enough of me or who hasn't is practically zero.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

This is not partisanship, this is truth.

Which is the first thing a partisan would say.

[Stealhead]

Typical GT political "discussion" ....

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Typical GT political "discussion" ....

Or this in certain cases