Thank you Governor Perry

[Takeda Shingen]

GOP field is just a total trainwreck, no?

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

GOP field is just a total trainwreck, no?

The thing with Gingrich in South Carolina just proves they are only trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Although as silly as Mr. Perry got at times it is almost a shame he did not fare better. He appeared less extreme than most the others, and more "real" than Willard Romney.

That is actually praise coming from me.

Even though this immaculate (R) field is forcing my hand to vote for the spineless wonder again. (at least he killed Bin Laden *raspberry*)

Stop catering to the lowest common denominator, and cater to moderates like me... I don't want socialism, nor do I want corporate warfare.
Sure it works in the hick states, or down south with implied rascism like Newton there. But we are a nation. 50 states.

Whatever happened to for the people, by the people?

[Osmium Steele]

The emphasis below is mine.

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Stop catering to the lowest common denominator, and cater to moderates like me... I don't want socialism, nor do I want corporate warfare.
Sure it works in the hick states, or down south with implied rascism like Newton there. But we are a nation. 50 states.

Gee, no trace of northeast elitism there. Nope, no sir. The sad thing is, you probably don't even see it.

[soopaman2]

Ha ha. Yeah I do see it. Maybe because up here trashing the poor as lazy is not a way to get votes, like it is in other states, states much poorer than NJ by the way.
I am pretty much non partisan. I do not vote against my own worst interests.(I voted for Bush Jr twice)


Nor does crap like abortion or race like your folks love to concentrate on, mean a thing to me.

So chuckle it up.

Lets bring jobs back?

Or legislate what women can do with their bodies.... Much easier!

I am torn between Barack Obama, and Lady Gaga as a write in.. tough choice for me at the moment.

I am from Jersey by the way, look up our property taxes. If I showed you my bill you would cringe...

So your welfare crap goes out the window.

edit: I do apologize for being generally blunt and not elaborating my position. The "hicks" are as necessary to our country as the silly (liberal) Yanks.
I should have respectfully stated our differences in a more tactful way. Yes this edit was an apology. I love all Americans, and should represent that better in public.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by diluvian

i wasnt claiming you were on welfare, just that welfare is one of many offsprings to socialism - new jersey is in the top bracket for taxes, meanwhile im in florida and ours is one of the lower ones -- though i assumed the higher taxes is just because you have a bigger population living off the money in comparison

and the whole reason of mentioning socialism is because you said you dont want it, meanwhile saying you'd vote for obama, and thats a literal catch 22

[and ultimately has nothing to do with the mason dixie line, lol] all the same i know ive been abrasive with my comments, but i couldnt help it after being generalized as a hick, lol

I have asked this before and have not get real response so I ask this from you as well. What you mean with "socialism"? I assume that you do not mean traditional definition of socialism found from Wikipedia for example.

[diluvian]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I have asked this before and have not get real response so I ask this from you as well. What you mean with "socialism"? I assume that you do not mean traditional definition of socialism found from Wikipedia for example.

i mean state socialism " the direct allocation of economic inputs to meet economic demands and human needs"

government regulating revenue from EVERYONE to distribute to those who 'need' it, why i dont like that though?

in my government course, i was given the example, you work hard to get an A on your test, it was 100%, meanwhile a few kids didnt study at all and they all got 80's. Well the teacher decides shes going to take 10% from your score and boost the other kids up to 90%

so now the entire class has the same score, everyone is 'even' and 'fair' [social equality, lol] but is there anymore incentive to work harder for that A now? to study more? nope. if anything all incentive is gone.

and thats the downside to socialism, and it shows greatly here in the U.S. [like i said were a mixed government/economy, we have plenty of socialist programs here. some i support, others i dont] -- the number of people who stand around with their hands out, people who think they deserve something now without working for it, and its on the rise....at least here it is, and its all being regulated by either the state or fed.

im done going off topic now though, back to governer perry

my favorite quote by him "Oops" when he forgot what government agencies he wanted to get rid of

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by diluvian

i mean state socialism " the direct allocation of economic inputs to meet economic demands and human needs"

government regulating revenue from EVERYONE to distribute to those who 'need' it, why i dont like that though?

in my government course, i was given the example, you work hard to get an A on your test, it was 100%, meanwhile a few kids didnt study at all and they all got 80's. Well the teacher decides shes going to take 10% from your score and boost the other kids up to 90%

so now the entire class has the same score, everyone is 'even' and 'fair' but is there anymore incentive to work harder for that A now? to study more? nope. if anything all incentive is gone.

and thats the downside to socialism, and it shows greatly here in the U.S. -- the number of people who stand around with their hands out, people who think they deserve something now without working for it, and its on the rise....at least here it is, and its all being regulated by either the state or fed.

I'll even expand. My wife got her start as a supermarket cashier (she manages it now)
Her first shift was the overnights, and on the first and third people would flock in with the welfare cards. Buy enough packs of 25 cent gum to empty the thing, then give it to the drug dealers they owed right in the store. Very few bought food, and when they did, it was expensive name brand crap. Candy, lobster tails and angus steaks.

I can barely afford that crap! I got to pay my way!

That is where socialism fails.

Then there is my friend Roger. Master welder, laid off, and denied benifits because he had 10k in a saving account. Thats what you get for being honest in this country.

The 10k is long gone, and they still resist giving him anything because they think his wifes 30k a year job can pay the bills, and care for his 2 kids.

That is where it fails.


So yes a double edged sword.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by diluvian

i wasnt claiming you were on welfare, just that welfare is one of many offsprings to socialism - new jersey is in the top bracket for taxes, meanwhile im in florida and ours is one of the lower ones -- though i assumed the higher taxes is just because you have a bigger population living off the money in comparison

and the whole reason of mentioning socialism is because you said you dont want it, meanwhile saying you'd vote for obama, and thats a literal catch 22

[and ultimately has nothing to do with the mason dixie line, lol]

I did deserve it. My original post that started this was wrong, while not my intention, it could have been stated better.

We all deserve better than what we have to choose from.


We need a modern day Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus or George Washington who both had enough restraint to resist the vices of power.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

GOP field is just a total trainwreck, no?

That is an insult to train wrecks.

Respenus, you need to simplify it to a level that works.
socialism = government welfare I don't like or don't get.
non-socialism=government welfare I do like or do get.
It works with taxes too.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Respenus, you need to simplify it to a level that works.
socialism = government welfare I don't like or don't get.
non-socialism=government welfare I do like or do get.
It works with taxes too.

I chuckled at this as it makes a great point.

Government welfare is not limited to the poor or lazy. But to Farmers (estate corporate co-ops, not Ma and Pa Brown types) To oil companies (hi Exxon, BP, Conoco-Phillips, I'll even throw in Solyndra), bankers *cough* banksters. (Uncle sam bends over and really takes it from them, and moans in pleasure while they do it.)


Hey now they are job creators...




...

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I chuckled at this as it makes a great point.

Government welfare is not limited to the poor or lazy. But to Farmers (estate corporate co-ops, not Ma and Pa Brown types) To oil companies (hi Exxon, BP, Conoco-Phillips, I'll even throw in Solyndra), bankers *cough* banksters. (Uncle sam bends over and really takes it from them, and moans in pleasure while they do it.)


Hey now they are job creators...




...

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

In true capitalism they would have failed. Same as alot of banks.

Can we call it fascism now? Veiled capitalism is too confusing for the rubes.

I always owned a Ford. Since I was 17. Some meat-head hit my f-150 a few months ago, and I bought a new one. They don't break. They don't even sweat in the snow, and they didn't need a bailout either.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

No Takeda - GM paid back the governmental LOANS- a total of about 6.7 Billion. However, GM recieved a total of $52 Billion in bailout funds. They have NOT paid that amount back - nore are there any plans to do so because the remaining $45.3 Billion were free and clear, a true bailout grant.

In April of 2010 GM announced it had "paid back" the bailout money - research showed that was false. Here is some data.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/2...ailout-payback

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/23/gen...ha-dalmia.html

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com...loans-in-full/

When the real data came out - the CEO of GM had to admit that it would take "years" to pay it all back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68F2NB20100916

In the end - the President had to admit that the taxpayers were going to lose about $14 billion even after repayment....

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/auto...ains/index.htm

Its a net loss regardless..... investment that could have been used elsewhere to save a company that should have gone under. Bailouts are bad - regardless of whether is auto, or finance. And I work for a bank...

Also - yes - a few Billion is a "drop in the bucket" when our national yearly debt is well over a trillion - but until we stop all the drops in that bucket - it will continue to overflow and spill out our debt in ever increasing amounts.

(edited to provide a more trustworthy link on the 14 billion loss)

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

No Takeda - GM paid back the governmental LOANS- a total of about 6.7 Billion. However, GM recieved a total of $52 Billion in bailout funds. They have NOT paid that amount back - nore are there any plans to do so because the remaining $45.3 Billion were free and clear, a true bailout grant.

In April of 2010 GM announced it had "paid back" the bailout money - research showed that was false. Here is some data.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/2...ailout-payback

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/23/gen...ha-dalmia.html

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com...loans-in-full/

When the real data came out - the CEO of GM had to admit that it would take "years" to pay it all back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68F2NB20100916

In the end - the President had to admit that the taxpayers were going to lose about $14 billion even after repayment....

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/auto...ains/index.htm

Its a net loss regardless..... investment that could have been used elsewhere to save a company that should have gone under. Bailouts are bad - regardless of whether is auto, or finance. And I work for a bank...

Also - yes - a few Billion is a "drop in the bucket" when our national yearly debt is well over a trillion - but until we stop all the drops in that bucket - it will continue to overflow and spill out our debt in ever increasing amounts.

(edited to provide a more trustworthy link on the 14 billion loss)

I guess you're right. I am an idiot. GM is a failure.