Thank you Governor Perry

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I chuckled at this as it makes a great point.

Government welfare is not limited to the poor or lazy. But to Farmers (estate corporate co-ops, not Ma and Pa Brown types) To oil companies (hi Exxon, BP, Conoco-Phillips, I'll even throw in Solyndra), bankers *cough* banksters. (Uncle sam bends over and really takes it from them, and moans in pleasure while they do it.)


Hey now they are job creators...




...

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

In true capitalism they would have failed. Same as alot of banks.

Can we call it fascism now? Veiled capitalism is too confusing for the rubes.

I always owned a Ford. Since I was 17. Some meat-head hit my f-150 a few months ago, and I bought a new one. They don't break. They don't even sweat in the snow, and they didn't need a bailout either.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

No Takeda - GM paid back the governmental LOANS- a total of about 6.7 Billion. However, GM recieved a total of $52 Billion in bailout funds. They have NOT paid that amount back - nore are there any plans to do so because the remaining $45.3 Billion were free and clear, a true bailout grant.

In April of 2010 GM announced it had "paid back" the bailout money - research showed that was false. Here is some data.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/2...ailout-payback

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/23/gen...ha-dalmia.html

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com...loans-in-full/

When the real data came out - the CEO of GM had to admit that it would take "years" to pay it all back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68F2NB20100916

In the end - the President had to admit that the taxpayers were going to lose about $14 billion even after repayment....

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/auto...ains/index.htm

Its a net loss regardless..... investment that could have been used elsewhere to save a company that should have gone under. Bailouts are bad - regardless of whether is auto, or finance. And I work for a bank...

Also - yes - a few Billion is a "drop in the bucket" when our national yearly debt is well over a trillion - but until we stop all the drops in that bucket - it will continue to overflow and spill out our debt in ever increasing amounts.

(edited to provide a more trustworthy link on the 14 billion loss)

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

No Takeda - GM paid back the governmental LOANS- a total of about 6.7 Billion. However, GM recieved a total of $52 Billion in bailout funds. They have NOT paid that amount back - nore are there any plans to do so because the remaining $45.3 Billion were free and clear, a true bailout grant.

In April of 2010 GM announced it had "paid back" the bailout money - research showed that was false. Here is some data.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/2...ailout-payback

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/23/gen...ha-dalmia.html

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com...loans-in-full/

When the real data came out - the CEO of GM had to admit that it would take "years" to pay it all back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68F2NB20100916

In the end - the President had to admit that the taxpayers were going to lose about $14 billion even after repayment....

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/auto...ains/index.htm

Its a net loss regardless..... investment that could have been used elsewhere to save a company that should have gone under. Bailouts are bad - regardless of whether is auto, or finance. And I work for a bank...

Also - yes - a few Billion is a "drop in the bucket" when our national yearly debt is well over a trillion - but until we stop all the drops in that bucket - it will continue to overflow and spill out our debt in ever increasing amounts.

(edited to provide a more trustworthy link on the 14 billion loss)

I guess you're right. I am an idiot. GM is a failure.

[CaptainHaplo]

Your not an idiot Takeda - just you said something that wasn't factual and I think the record ought to be straight. Facts mean something.

GM currently - is going good. Question is, how long? Will it stay that way, or fold again soon?

The idea of capitalism is that a company lives - and dies - on its own merits and abilities. Ford didn't need a bailout - so it is playing on what is technicaly an unlevel playing field. If someone gave Ford 50 Billion for free, I would bet they would be doing fabulous for a while too.

5 -10 years from now will determine the historical view of GM. Until then, the question remains - did we bail out something only to see it fail again?

Like you were - I am against bailouts - let market capitalism work.

As I said - I work for a bank. We didn't get a bailout. We are growing - majorly - because we offer good products and make good business decisions. Thats how capitalism is supposed to work - reward those who offer what the consumer wants and neds the best.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

The idea of capitalism is that a company lives - and dies - on its own merits and abilities. Ford didn't need a bailout - so it is playing on what is technicaly an unlevel playing field. If someone gave Ford 50 Billion for free, I would bet they would be doing fabulous for a while too.

Someone explain this to our last 2 presidents?

Most of OWS would go home if you ended corporate welfare. I mean, they do not even try to disguise it anymore...

It used to be called subsidies, now they got bold and just called it a bailout.

Socialize the loss, privatize the profit. God bless fascist Italy...Ooopsies, I meant America, the beautifu...Corrup.... unscrupulou..., err uhh ...

Hey at least we aren't Africa,

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Someone explain this to our last 2 presidents?

Most of OWS would go home if you ended corporate welfare. I mean, they do not even try to disguise it anymore...

It used to be called subsidies, now they got bold and just called it a bailout.

Socialize the loss, privatize the profit. God bless fascist Italy...Ooopsies, I meant America, the beautifu...Corrup.... unscrupulou..., err uhh ...

Hey at least we aren't Africa,

I'm sure your Congress is doing their best to correct this.

@diluvian & soopaman2 thank you for explaining your views.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Someone explain this to our last 2 presidents?

Most of OWS would go home if you ended corporate welfare. I mean, they do not even try to disguise it anymore...

It used to be called subsidies, now they got bold and just called it a bailout.

Socialize the loss, privatize the profit. God bless fascist Italy...Ooopsies, I meant America, the beautifu...Corrup.... unscrupulou..., err uhh ...

Hey at least we aren't Africa,

Amen Soopa...

If we had a chief executive that understood that the role of government was to get out of the way - of society, of capitalism, and of us just living our lives - we would be one step closer to where we need to be.

OWS isn't just about corporate welfare though - its a lot of "I want my bailout too!" - which is where I differ with them - more welfare - just on a different level - won't fix the problem. Ending it all (except for the truly poor who need it and can't - not wont - subsist on their own) is what will.

[Bubblehead1980]

Point is Perry realized he has no chance and pulled out, putting the main objective of defeating Obama more important than his ego.That little turd Santorum for example, has no chance yet refuses to leave, which will cause some problems for Gingrich.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

And now GM is back to the top spot in the automotive industry and have paid back almost all of their bailout money. Boy was I critical of that bailout when it happened, calling it government pork, anti-capitalist and predicting the company's failure. Goes to show what the hell I know.

Yea but they produced the Chevy Volt LOL. I have a GM currently, am getting a new car in about a month and will NEVER buy a GM product again, it's my second one and have hated it, they don't last.Maybe their trucks do but I don't drive a truck.