An important bug found in GWX?

[skwasjer]

@all, you can change the enum in S3D's controller template. <installdir>\controllers

Anvart indeed informed me a while ago, but I have not looked at S3D anymore since 2+ years. Perhaps privateer (he also posted updated controller templates for SH5) or Anvart can make the adjustments and post a fix for it.

[NGT]

@ Skwasjer

First, I will like to express, again, my gratitude for your marvelous tool. Thanks to this tool "everybody" can be a "moder", everybody can modulate his own supermod.


But, I am perplexed, after your post above.

If this error is so easy to be dressed by others, why you not do that, and by the way, release the version 1.0 of S3D.

I don’t remember other major problems, and after all, your site dedicated to this tool, is always active. This means that some how, you are around SH3, and your post here —yesterday— give proof of that.

Thank you.



(I hope you understand my English)

[skwasjer]

It's not the only issue that would need fixing in S3D, and there's a little bit more to it to provide an update.

And this is the thing, I don't care to spend any more time on S3D. That does not mean I don't come by every now and then (not very often though) to provide insights, feedback, help, where I can. But I am not touching S3D, my development programs or the game. The only program I bother with is the browser to read/reply to threads here. I am simply too tired with the game to do anything more...

PS: the site is just up for the sake of having a place to download S3D and read about it's history. But it has not been maintained either for almost 2 years

[Aces]

I understand mate, let me take the opportunity in personally thanking you for the S3ditor, I've had great fun using it and it's an invaluable tool for producing mods.

Kind regards

Aces

[rowi58]

As ACES posted,

it's time to say "thank you, skwasjer" for this great tool. And by the way - even if it is a little "bug": that don't matter.

Why? Neither SH3 nor SH4 are using sensors like "AI_Radar", "AI_Hydrophone" or "AI_Sonar", only the sensor "AI_Visual" is used in the SNS files. Al ship units have historical correct sensors on all sides - or NULL.

Greetings
rowi58

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by skwasjer

... or Anvart can make the adjustments and post a fix for it.

Better if author does it himself, i think.

Link to edited obj_Sensor.cs:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5i...obj_Sensor.rar...
Copy this file into X:\Program Files\Silent 3ditor\Controllers\SHSim\ folder and overwrite existing file.

[skwasjer]

No need for thank you's. Many of you have done a great deal for the game too.

@Anvart, yes, it would be better but again, I don't 'want' to ;p. I'm done with S3D
Thx for the fix.

[Volk2]

The Polish modder - Olamagato - has understood that it was a bug in s3d, but as he said - it doesn't change the problem. So as I see now - he has repaired the sensors in some way, that I don't understand. Anyway, I thought it will be interesting.

Here is the table that shows comparison of stock SH3, GWX and Olamagato improved sensors (alpha):



And here a link to test alpha version:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/GWXP...%20eskorty.zip

The last version of mod is - I suppose - here, inside a bigger mod:
http://ja.gram.pl/blog_wpis.asp?id=4756&n=19
but I cannot download it now, maybe later.

Here you can read google translation of forum posts:
http://translate.google.pl/translate...5%26start%3D20

And here is google translation of alpha test mod readme:

Mod improves the performance of detectors escort
---------------------------------------------

Cause of this fashion were observed inconsistencies in the behavior of the escort ships (with an attack on a submerged submarine) with relations submarine crews. GWX extension failed to correct this behavior, but only hindered attempts to avoid detection.
The tests (with a single compromising eskortowcem and selective detectors) showed that almost 100% of the detection is done by a hydrophone or sonar passive, very often in the posterior semi-zone eskortowca. Coverage hydrophone / sonar passive zone included a full 135 ° -135 .. without any restrictions as to the depth of the search target. It was enough that the goal was for 1 or 2 seconds in the range of the hydrophone (up to 7 km in GWX!) In low-impact and noise waves (calm sea) to become fully detected by an escort with no chance of loss of contact. This effect did not occur in the original SH3 because the range of default hydrophone was there to just 600m handicapped. GWX correct the manifest error causing an extremely high difficulty to avoid flooding. It boiled down to a random factor with a very low chance of success.
At the same time a marginal role in the discovery he was active sonar, which range scan boiled down to just 10 degrees vertically in front of semi-zone and required in practice to detect the full 40 seconds (red light) to track the depth of submarine periscopes (only). Apart from this narrow area of ***8203;***8203;the scan sonar eskortowca was practically blind. In the extreme case of active sonar Type 123A/128A goal to be detected had to be on for 20 seconds just to 48m/75m from eskortowca, at a depth of 10-15m. Such conditions could never be met for a moving warship escorts. Even at the border range sonar Type 123A (1200 yd.) Ship immersed to a depth below 212 m was completely safe from any chance of being detected by sonar.

That the game was in clear contradiction with the manual for GWX 3.0 - both with a description of the detectors as well as ways to avoid the escorts described in the Appendix.

This amendment eliminates these problems by reducing the possibility of a real submarine detection by passive sonar hydrophone and escorts, and a significant increase in the possibility of active sonar - in accordance with the historical realities and the manual for GWX 3.0.

Changes
------
- Extended detection time was excessive noise or sonar reflections from 1 to 3 seconds up to 130-170m, and from 2 to 6 seconds up to 6,5-9,5 km.
- The default sensitivity of passive devices has been reduced to the minimum value of 0.01 and most of the passive sonar to 0.02, which reduced the coverage zone of rapid detection by half (140-190 m depending on the thighs device).
- Was introduced level temperature inversion layer depth of water, which in GWX and SH3 was at sea level (0 m).
- Deterioration factor hydrophone scanning from too much speed namierzaj***261;cego ship was restored with 20 nodes (in GWX) to 15 knots true (as in SH3). This index to rise slightly to the already abnormally high efficiency scanning hydrophone / passive sonar.
- Reduced Vertical angles were scanned hydrophone / s.pasywnego from 80-170 degrees (only without the 10 degrees from vertical) to a maximum of 90-135 degrees depending on the severity of passive sonar. Hydrophones scan angles of 90-115 degrees now means covering the 0-250 m depth already at a distance of 536 m from eskortowca.
- Was introduced to the minimum area ratio of a submarine to detect both the hydrophone and sonar. It is for hydrophone less than 90 m ^ 2, and for the sonar less than 60 m ^ 2 In practice, this makes it difficult to detect the U-boat just rotated almost exactly the bow or stern to the scan. Full lateral surface of the U-boat type VII is more than 360 m ^ 2
- The maximum ranges of active sonar have been converted from yards to meters.
- Default Active sonar has ceased to be blind than 100 m from the target. Limit was 10 m just like any other passive sonar.
- The horizontal angle of the cone were urealnione active sonar from the original 180 sec for the cone angle of 70-130 degrees of active sonar default has been reduced to 60 deg
- The vertical angle of the cone active sonar have been enlarged to historical values: 90-155 deg
- Introduced a minimum area ratio was scanned on a submarine range 30-60 m ^ 2 This simulates the reflection of leaky beam sonar from the bow or stern of the submarine.
- Increased sensitivity coefficients were active sonar to 0.2-0.5, which accurately scan area increased to 273-455m from eskortowca depending on the type of sonar.
- Was reduced by half (to 0.3) coefficient of wave impact on the quality of the active sonar detection.
- Loss of time lead was reduced from 30 to 20 seconds.

Olamagato

If the translation is rubbish in some place (well, it's rubbish mostly), say, and I will translate that place better.

[reaper7]

Originally Posted by ***1074;***1086;***1083;***1082;

Here is the table that shows comparison of stock SH3, GWX and Olamagato improved sensors (alpha):.

Looks Interesting. Can't download mod to have a look as registration has to be approved by forum admin.
Any chance to upload here to check it out

[Volk2]

Originally Posted by reaper7

Looks Interesting. Can't download mod to have a look as registration has to be approved by forum admin.
Any chance to upload here to check it out

Yep, I've updated links, here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/GWXP...%20eskorty.zip

[Volk2]

And here is the latest version of Olamagato mod ("2.2", JSGME compatible) extracted from http://ja.gram.pl/blog_wpis.asp?id=4756&n=19

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/GWXP...ampanii%29.rar

There is also an excel spreadsheet with changes listed inside the archive.

Google translation of readme:

Mod improves the performance of detectors escort V.2.2
-------------------------------------------------- -

Cause of this fashion were observed inconsistencies in the behavior of the escort ships (with an attack on a submerged submarine) with relations submarine crews. GWX extension failed to correct this behavior, but only hindered attempts to avoid detection.
The tests (with a single compromising eskortowcem and selective detectors) showed that almost 100% of the detection is done by a hydrophone or sonar passive, very often in the posterior semi-zone eskortowca. Coverage hydrophone / sonar passive zone included a full 135 ° -135 .. without any restrictions as to the depth of the search target. It was enough that the goal was for 1 or 2 seconds in the range of the hydrophone (up to 7 km in GWX!) In low-impact and noise waves (calm sea) to become fully detected by an escort with no chance of loss of contact. This effect did not occur in the original SH3 because the range of default hydrophone was there to just 600m handicapped. GWX correct the manifest error causing an extremely high difficulty to avoid flooding. It boiled down to a random factor with a very low chance of success in the case hit the escort of a combination of the best devices.
At the same time a marginal role in the discovery he was active sonar, which range scan boiled down to just 10 degrees vertically in front of semi-zone and required in practice to detect the full 40 seconds (red light) to track the depth of submarine periscopes (only). Apart from this narrow area of ***8203;***8203;the scan sonar eskortowca was practically blind. In the extreme case of active sonar Type 123A/128A goal to be detected had to be on for 20 seconds just to 48m/75m from eskortowca, at a depth of 10-15m. Such conditions could never be met for a moving warship escorts. Even at the border range sonar Type 123A (1200 yd.) U-boat submerged to a depth below 212 m was completely safe from any chance of being detected by sonar.

That the game was in clear contradiction with the manual for GWX 3.0 - both with a description of the detectors as well as ways to avoid the escorts described in the Appendix.

This amendment eliminates these problems by reducing the possibility of a real submarine detection by passive sonar hydrophone and escorts, and a significant increase in the possibility of active sonar - in accordance with the historical realities and the manual for GWX 3.0.

Additionally, the game active and passive sonar are separate detectors, which probably can exist without each other. In fact, it was a complex device whose elements closely cooperate with each other in different ways. Passive sonar to scan the environment around eskortowca, and these were "illuminated" by the various types of acoustic beam with active sonar. Some of these beams was heard, some interferowa***322;a in waves of audible frequencies, and the others were at all beyond the human hearing range. Bundles of long-range active sonars have low angles of taper, and these short-range rather high cone angles.

Changes
------
- Extended detection time was excessive noise or sonar reflections from 1 to 5 seconds at a distance of up to 390-570M and from 2 to 10 seconds in the rest of the distance up to 6,5-9,5 km.
- Was introduced level temperature inversion layer depth of water, which in GWX and SH3 was at sea level (0 m).
- Deterioration factor hydrophone scanning from too much speed namierzaj***261;cego ship was restored with 20 nodes (in GWX) to 15 knots true (as in SH3). This index to rise slightly to the already abnormally high efficiency scanning hydrophone / passive sonar.
- Reduced Vertical angles were scanned hydrophone / s.pasywnego from 80-170 degrees (only without the 10 degrees from vertical) to the max 90,29-155 degrees depending on the severity of passive sonar. This means covering a depth of 0-250 m already at a distance of 536 m from eskortowca and the inability to detect the U-boat the hydrophone (without beam sonar), standing at a depth of 4-5 km above the periscopes
- The maximum ranges of active sonar have been converted from yards to meters.
- Default Active sonar has ceased to be blind than 100 m from the target. Limit was 10 m just like any other passive sonar.
- The horizontal angle of the cone were urealnione active sonar from the original 180 sec to 70-130 degrees in accordance with historical data and interpolated for intermediate types of angles. However, tests show that these angles are probably hidden in the code (on hard).
- Default vertical angle of the cone of active sonar has been reduced to 16 deg
- The vertical angle of the cone active sonar have been enlarged to historical values: 90-155 ° Both of these changes to better simulate the closed minimum range active scanning sonar default.
- Increased sensitivity coefficients were active sonar to 0.25-0.90, which increased the area a thorough scan to 569-910m from the bow eskortowca, depending on the type of sonar.
- Was reduced by half (to 0.3) coefficient of wave impact on the quality of the active sonar detection.

Olamagato

Some other interesting remarks by Olamagato (e.g. about torpedos) about his changes in mod - sadly, by google translate:

By the way of working on the package managed to detect that in several aspects of simulation, GWX it was not quite as polished, as announced. Parameters torpedoes were not proven, and yet one of the most important issues in the evolution of combat torpedoes, especially manewruj***261;cymi, such as FAT and the SOLDER, was their coverage. The parameters of range and speed were not consistent with each other, causing the older torpedoes were longer range than the newer ones.

Similarly, it appeared from the passive and active sonar. The Allies had a weak passive sonar (and hydrophones), and the worst of the German equivalent of 1939 (GHG) struck on the head tenderly, even those allied with the end of the war, the active sonar is allied with the weapon, which relied on them were murderously effective. Similarly, neither SH3 or GWX did not consider that the acoustic torpedo warheads were 200 kg heksanitu instead of 300 kg as in the other torpedoes, resulting in a third explosion weaker than in the remaining torpedoes.

SH3 gave a huge bonus that allows ordinary hydrofonom allies detect the slightest sound of the U-boat in 1 second (sic), active sonar while making virtually blind - they have to ping the area up to 20 seconds to detect anything at all. SH3 designers probably did not know why the tests SH3 escort was "so good" so drastically okroili ordinary hydrophone detection range up to 600m (sic). GWX "repair" this "mistake" by increasing (as a logical inference based on other models) hydrophone normal range up to 7 km, further weakening, and so ineffective active sonar, which resulted in accurate tracking hydrophone, while causing the pinging was only 40 - second scare sound (less than 75m 20s from the U-boat).

Translation mod of GWX 3.0 offers two options to restore the historical parameters of torpedoes, as well as historically justified set of passive and active sonar, which allow escort behave much more realistically than a murderously effective.

Including (diagnostic) detection rate of U-boot for the first time, you can see all the intermediate colors between red and green, depending on the speed, quiet running, depth and position relative to the U-boat attack escort vessels (picture above). U-boat captain will be able to partly decide what shade of brown, yellow or green will show on the indicator (ie how much the ship will be exposed to detection) and see how traffic escort vessels affects the state of his discovery.

You can also capture the moment when he loses bearing escort (the indicator changes to green) when rushing to the detected target. Of course, if will not have a helper standing. Escort of the end of the war sonar will detect the U-boat periscopes already standing on more than a mile - but only from the bow. The stern of the condition detected is low or zero.