PERFECT SIM! What can we make out of SH5/SH3?

[Reece]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

What was the uboat buoyancy problem specifically? On rails? Dive too fast? Or the below the 183 meter issue?

On rails, the boat sort of stayed still while the water moved around it rather than the water move around the boat, plus it was hard to hold the boat level and although in reality the boat had to move to maintain depth it seemed a little overdone, it has been awhile you may have solved most in your mod, I didn't play for long mainly due to the fact that I like the Atlantic with much shorter patrols, plus the PC died and had to reinstall Windows and never bothered to reinstall SH4! The boat in OM dived far too slow!!

[Schwieger]

speaking of SH4 why do the boats disappear around 500 meters? I ran into this using some of the Modern sub mods...

[Ducimus]

The "on rails" effect i believe is solved for the most part. Very rarely do you notice it now. The fix for that is a combination of factors, from draft and CG_height in any given boat's sim file, to enviormental adjustments in the scene.dat, but also what i think more importantly, is offsetting the boats parent nodel in the dat file.

When working on Nine Delta Two, i noticed that by offsetting the parent node backward or forward, AND to one side or the other, it helped create a rolling effect. At least i think it did. I recall seeing a marked improvement after doing that. Originally, the parent node was sitting at 0 on all axis's in the 3d rendering. That puppy rolls nicely i thought. Though it could be made better through one more avenue of approach that is a can of worms i just don't want to open (wave attunation settings in the sim.cfg file). Major domino effect by doing that.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Schwieger

speaking of SH4 why do the boats disappear around 500 meters? I ran into this using some of the Modern sub mods...

Legacy feature from SH3 as i recall. Depth charges go POOF at 300. I forget the exact depth, but at some point in SH3, your boat ceased to be rendered.

[rik007]

Originally Posted by denis_469

But total UBI need made new game on base SH 3 with features SH 4 and SH 5...

That is what I hope. A kind of back to basic, ie creating a simulator as close to reality as possible. SH3 has the raw feeling which comes closes to what we percieve as historical reality. The SH3 team did enough effort to get into touch with that, visiting the U-995, interviewing Hardegen (or an other captain). It seems to be lost in SH5. I can remember the total shock when the first screenshots appeared with the periscope-view, the map with the radar like view on ships with red and orange to indicate detection area's. If you remember the discussions on this site (+ mods) to even remove the soundtails from the map in SH3 because they were unrealistic you see how far we drifted away with SH5 from the PERFECT SIM.

[urfisch]

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable. i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

would be interesting to hear some sh5 modders opinions, like from thedarkwraith, etc...

[makman94]

Originally Posted by h.sie

......
I agree in many aspects you mentioned in your post above, but why are we both wasting our time with a - as you said - sub 'game' , since it is clear that we'll never get a sim that satisfies our wishes? would we both play if there were a perfect subsimulator? I doubt that.

i am ....afraid that you are ....right !

[rik007]

Originally Posted by urfisch

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable. i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

would be interesting to hear some sh5 modders opinions, like from thedarkwraith, etc...

Me too. I didnot touch Sh4+addon for years and i plugged it in this week.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by urfisch

i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

It is a great sim in it's own right

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by urfisch

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable. i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

would be interesting to hear some sh5 modders opinions, like from thedarkwraith, etc...

I have no more interest in SH3 or SH4 (I think I had maybe 12 mins total interest in SH4 and then it turned into a dust collector). They are 'locked' as far as the amount of new and original content that can be added to them. SH5 gives me the ability to program. And where one can program one can do just about whatever their imagination takes them (barring game limitations of course ). I'm having a blast tinkering with SH5. Every day I learn something new about the game from trial and error or just experimenting. Some people say it's just a script - not so. It's a version of Python, a version that can access the .NET framework. This version of Python can also interact with DirectX (haven't gone there yet ). So in affect these so called scripts are a way of extending the game. Prime example of this is my Automation class (the tutorial feature of my UIs mod is part of Automation). I have put a script engine inside a script engine
Once we are able to import into GR2 format or modify existing GR2 models you'll see more and more people turning to SH5 Majority of the real core problems have been fixed and all we're really missing is ability to import new 3D models into the game.
Gameplay and immersion wise stock SH5 is crap, pure garbage. But with mods it's utterly enjoyable and fun
For those who haven't tried SH5 with a good set of mods you are missing out (you need a powerful computer though to really see the game in all it's glory)

[Ducimus]

They are 'locked' as far as the amount of new and original content that can be added to them.

Only locked amount of new/original content in SH4, that I'm aware of, is how many playable sub's you can have. The butt kicker in this regard is the Unitparts files in the UPCData directory. They're numbered sequentially, and once you run through numbers 1 through 9, the game gets wonky. So i believe, one is limited to theortical 9 playable, original submarine models, per side of the war. (possibly 8 if we're dealing with a null termination point in a fixed array somewhere in the game code) I know in TMO i'm at the max number for the allies, and can't add anymore.

(edit: that would be two S boats (inheirted), Narwhal, Porpoise, Salmon/Sargo(inheirted), Tambor/Gar(inheirited), Gato, Balao, and Tench classes. So.. that would be 8 boats total.)

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by urfisch

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable.

It has potential, but they're will always be short comings. Back to the thread title. The Perfect sim?

Take SH3, and then from SH4 add the following:

1 multiple resolutions and Wide screen support
2 DDS texture compression
3 direct X shader rendering
4 how the campaign is structured/written
5 fast loading times
6 ability to play either side of the war.
7 slightly higher poly count on some 3d models and normal mapping.

That, is really all there is to be gained. What's to be lost is:

1 crewman not changing to wet gear in high winds. (no need for any more foul weather gun mods i guess.)

2 diving and loitering at or below 200 meters due to negative bouyancy issue.

3 sonarman no longer calls out depth charges. (though there is a great workaround for this that works just as well as a sonarman)

4 familiar and old UI with interactive crew when clicked upon. (you could leave in the, "looking at the captain" animation, but there's no real need for it anymore since the menu system is different.)


The kick in the crotch is issues 1 through 3 carried over into SH5 and some the fixes/workarounds no longer work there. Some object controllers that worked in 3 and 4 no longer seem to work either.

At any rate, there's always potential, in ANY title, but perfect? That will never happen. All SH titles have their issues.

[Robin40]

Well...I think that up to this time the best sim is SH3 with Megamod. GWX or LSH3

All what you need it is to improve graphics...that's the perfect sim

Ah...SH3_GWX with the graphics of SH5

[Schwieger]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

It has potential, but they're will always be short comings. Back to the thread title. The Perfect sim?

Take SH3, and then from SH4 add the following:

1 multiple resolutions and Wide screen support
2 DDS texture compression
3 direct X shader rendering
4 how the campaign is structured/written
5 fast loading times
6 ability to play either side of the war.
7 slightly higher poly count on some 3d models and normal mapping.

That, is really all there is to be gained. What's to be lost is:

1 crewman not changing to wet gear in high winds. (no need for any more foul weather gun mods i guess.)

2 diving and loitering at or below 200 meters due to negative bouyancy issue.

3 sonarman no longer calls out depth charges. (though there is a great workaround for this that works just as well as a sonarman)

4 familiar and old UI with interactive crew when clicked upon. (you could leave in the, "looking at the captain" animation, but there's no real need for it anymore since the menu system is different.)


The kick in the crotch is issues 1 through 3 carried over into SH5 and some the fixes/workarounds no longer work there. Some object controllers that worked in 3 and 4 no longer seem to work either.

At any rate, there's always potential, in ANY title, but perfect? That will never happen. All SH titles have their issues.

Is it possible to add the following?

[rik007]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

SH5 gives me the ability to program. And where one can program one can do just about whatever their imagination takes them (barring game limitations of course ). I'm having a blast tinkering with SH5. Every day I learn something new about the game from trial and error or just experimenting.....

Once we are able to import into GR2 format or modify existing GR2 models you'll see more and more people turning to SH5 ...

Gameplay and immersion wise stock SH5 is crap, pure garbage. But with mods it's utterly enjoyable and fun

Can I conclude that your fun with SH-5 is hacking in python? From that perspective I can understand this is the game for you.

This week I plugged in SH4+add on. I got irritated by the English voices so I created a mod replacing them by the SH-3 german voice just to discover after it was finished that such a mod was already available

I plugged the SH-5 DVD in this morning to give it another try. Installed all the mods - including yours which are excellent by the way - but I still cannot get the feeling into this game. I hope we can remove all the fancy features from it making it simple as it was 70 years ago. I do not see that adding some new units will raise enthousiasm to create another GWX. It is not worth it.