Ubi should pay Mods

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Odds are I'll never get to collect. I don't have the money to be spending on airfare to meet people.

Just yesterday I learned I have relatives in CA, one is an ex-PCD girl
I always planned on taking a trip to the US, rent a bike, start somewhere south and head west. Now I have an extra reason, to visit family. And perhaps even a beer with Duci and some others... It'll still take me a year to be able to do so though

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Have to say though, it sure would be nice to have the SH4 source code.

The downside is, we wouldn't know where to start
There aren't many capable programmers around here either, it's not by far the same thing as modding game files.
Then there's the aspect of managing code changes. Who decides what goes in, ensures code quality (and performance) and why. You can't have 10 people releasing seperate mods with only one EXE to overwrite you know
I would love to have a go at it, but otoh I really don't either.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Faamecanic

You would think...but that makes too much sense, and UBI has an issue with arrogance it seems. To arrogant to admit that if they gave the right tools and source code to our mod community...they would probably make a SH game that would put SH5 to shame, for $0, and in less than 1 yr.

You would also think UBI would have learned with SH3 to get the modders here involved with the DEVs from DAY 1...... nah that makes too much sense also.

Humm..let me rephrase that... the DEVS did the REAL hard work of actually programming an ENGINE (and evidently ran out of time to fully explore and implement that engine). Our Modders can now take that engine and MAKE IT SHINE.

I didnt mean for my post to sound like the Devs failed in thier job. They made an excellent engine...but without a SDK our talented modders cant take 100% advantage of that engine.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Faamecanic

Humm..let me rephrase that... the DEVS did the REAL hard work of actually programming an ENGINE
...

I keep failing and get infractions points in understanding where is that HARD work in programming SH5. There is still a LOT of script line left from SH3, including bugs.. and moders are still work very hard to fix these issues.

Sorry, but I never saw such a game like this.. where the devs drop a junk on the market and the moders are called out to fix it. All my respect to the artwork/artist team, is what it sells SH5 so far.... they should get all the credits.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Seeadler

or

ROFLMAO

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I keep failing and get infractions points in understanding where is that HARD work in programming SH5. There is still a LOT of script line left from SH3, including bugs.. and moders are still work very hard to fix these issues.

Sorry, but I never saw such a game like this.. where the devs drop a junk on the market and the moders are called out to fix it. All my respect to the artwork/artist team, is what it sells SH5 so far.... they should get all the credits.

Let me go back to my car anology and maybe this will help.

Lamborghini designs a new engine. V-12 with all the newest technology (ceramic cylinders, aluminum block...). The engineers work very hard on having the base engine design sound...but the suits force them to stop work on the engine so it can be sold 1 yr before its ready.

Who is at fault?? Sure maybe the engineers over promised what they could build with a given budget and timeframe (ie maybe the Devs over promised what they could do in the limited time Ubi gave them). Or maybe the suits just say "this is good enough...release the engine".

The programmers did a good job with the engine. The graphics are good, MOST of us dont have constant CTDs (without mods and playing vanilla). The ideas of role playing, moving about your ship, morale system, even the dynamic campaign system (which I will still contend is junk as it stands right now)...all great ideas (but poorly implemented).

So I would say the engine is sound. The implementation was VERY poor. BUT if a SDK were released... then the engine (which none of our modders would be willing to recode the ENTIRE engine) is a sound foundation that the modders could make shine.

Much like the GWX, RuB, NYGM teams did with SH3. They did NOT have access to the engine (no sdk) so the engine again was sound. They just polished it up. If the engine was BAD no amount of polishing could make a turd shine

Im not absolving UBI at all.... by far. But I am saying the Devs did a good job on the engine itself. The implementation of that engine was less than stellar.... Thats all I was saying.

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I keep failing and get infractions points in understanding where is that HARD work in programming SH5. There is still a LOT of script line left from SH3, including bugs.. and moders are still work very hard to fix these issues.

Sorry, but I never saw such a game like this.. where the devs drop a junk on the market and the moders are called out to fix it. All my respect to the artwork/artist team, is what it sells SH5 so far.... they should get all the credits.

The scripts are not the engine - you cant make changes to the engine or see it, but you can use scripts to interact with the engine.

Im sorry you keep missing the point...I think it may be because you need to check carefully before you blame someone for doing a bad job, so you are absolutely sure that you are pointing in the right direction.
Just a suggestion

[Gato76]

Originally Posted by McBeck

The scripts are not the engine - you cant make changes to the engine or see it, but you can use scripts to interact with the engine.

Im sorry you keep missing the point...I think it may be because you need to check carefully before you blame someone for doing a bad job, so you are absolutely sure that you are pointing in the right direction.
Just a suggestion

Ok who get the blame then? the developers are the one seating behind a computer coding the game.regardless of the time frame and budget they were given,in my opinion i don't think is right to release a product like this and we have to pay full price for it,how can you explain the broken stadimeter it was broken in Sh4 and broken again in this game,thats an easy fix for then and they just let it go,just like that.I agreed with Magnum they did a bad job.

[Lord Justice]

Originally Posted by Gato76

and they just let it go,just like that.

Sir, I make no doubt, that you will?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by skwasjer

Just yesterday I learned I have relatives in CA, one is an ex-PCD girl
I always planned on taking a trip to the US, rent a bike, start somewhere south and head west. Now I have an extra reason, to visit family. And perhaps even a beer with Duci and some others... It'll still take me a year to be able to do so though

Well, if you manage to come out here before may/june 2011, we'll have to get together. I owe you a case of beer.

The downside is, we wouldn't know where to start
There aren't many capable programmers around here either, it's not by far the same thing as modding game files.

If I had the source code in hand, assuming it was a C++ deriviatve, id be dusting off the ole programming books really quick. Might take me awhile, but id have ample motivation. In reality though, i wouldn't be able to make much more then small, minor changes.

Then there's the aspect of managing code changes. Who decides what goes in, ensures code quality (and performance) and why. You can't have 10 people releasing seperate mods with only one EXE to overwrite you know

Oh fine, ruin the day dream why don't you!

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by McBeck

The scripts are not the engine - you cant make changes to the engine or see it, but you can use scripts to interact with the engine.

Im sorry you keep missing the point...I think it may be because you need to check carefully before you blame someone for doing a bad job, so you are absolutely sure that you are pointing in the right direction.
Just a suggestion

Well said in less than HALF the words I used....

What McBeck said