Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Foxtrot

Medicine,Cement blocks,and wheelchairs should be classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction. Anyone who manufactures them, carries them, transports them and uses them should be considered as a terrorist from now on. Israeli government has to defend itself from wheelchair-bound Palestinians who would wield cement blocks while high on medicine!

This isn't about what was on the ship but what could have been on the ship. Why didn't they let the soldiers inspect the stuff?
How were the soldiers expected to know what was on board?
All they knew was that the organisation claimed that they only had relief stuff on board.
Would you trust a safety check at an airport where everyone just claims whether he/she has weapons/explosives etc. with him/her? Or would you rather trust in a safety check that deserves that name?

@Merchant Raider
Have you ever been attacked with a baseball bat or similar weapon?
This things can kill and even if they don't they are more than enough to fracture your bones. I would so like to see you in the situation of those soldiers and stay calm and saying: Hey, everything is cool, it's just bats and rods.

Originally Posted by Schroeder

This isn't about what was on the ship but what could have been on the ship. Why didn't they let the soldiers inspect the stuff?
How were the soldiers expected to know what was on board?
All they knew was that the organisation claimed that they only had relief stuff on board.
Would you trust a safety check at an airport where everyone just claims whether he/she has weapons/explosives etc. with him/her? Or would you rather trust in a safety check that deserves that name?

@Merchant Raider
Have you ever been attacked with a baseball bat or similar weapon?
This things can kill and even if they don't they are more than enough to fracture your bones. I would so like to see you in the situation of those soldiers and stay calm and saying: Hey, everything is cool, it's just bats and rods.

Are you saying that Israelis have knowledge of all cargo that is approaching their harbors? Well why didn't they ask the Turkish to inspect the ships then, shouldn't have been too difficult. I mean, if they managed to sabotage some ships, a simple phone call shouldn't be too difficult.

If the commandoes didn't want to put themselves on harms way they should've stayed out of a ship sailing in international waters. They were lucky they were only attacked with non-lethal force and not lethal which would have been ok too.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

If the commandoes didn't want to put themselves on harms way they should've stayed out of a ship sailing in international waters. They were lucky they were only attacked with non-lethal force and not lethal which would have been ok too.

How is stabbing someone in the back non-lethal force?

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

How is stabbing someone in the back non-lethal force?

Dude, attack my house at night and I'll gladly stab you in the face.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Dude, attack my house at night and I'll gladly stab you in the face.

What if you are being attacked by the authorities for doing something illegal?

just hypothetical question

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

What if you are being attacked by the authorities for doing something illegal?

just hypothetical question

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Maybe so, but would you call that non-lethal force? Stay on topic!!

Well at that point you'd be having a major head ache due to the fact that you'd have a Finnish puukko up it's hilt lodged in your face. But not necessarily in your brain though so you'd be very much alive. Then I'd break out a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.

no.

let me make it easier for you...

If the police came to your house - or better yet - lets say if the police pulled you over and suspected that your vehicle contained drugs and drug paraphernalia - what would your natural reaction be?

A. Speed off into a high speed pursuit

B. Cooperate fully - knowing the officer will see that your little baggies of cocaine are actually little baggies of sugar and let you go

C. Stab, hit, bite, kick the officers



dont put a spin on it... just answer the hypothetical question its simple even!

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.



Well at that point you'd be having a major head ache due to the fact that you'd have a Finnish puukko up it's hilt lodged in your face. But not necessarily in your brain though so you'd be very much alive. Then I'd break out a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...

I hate to tell you this, but just because someone might only be wounded in an attack doesn't make it NOT deadly force. If you're using a weapon that can kill someone... whether it's a gun, knife, even a bludgeon, it's deadly force even if the effect or intent was only to wound.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Then I'd break out a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...

There is our little peace loving OTH coming out in his true colors

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

You mean illegal like having building material etc.? Err...duh.

What they were carrying is irrelevant. They refused to sail to the Israeli port like other aid ships do and they continued sailing straight to Gaza after IDF had warned them to change course.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Dude, attack my house at night and I'll gladly stab you in the face.

Maybe so, but would you call that non-lethal force? Stay on topic!!

[Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

This isn't about what was on the ship but what could have been on the ship. Why didn't they let the soldiers inspect the stuff?
How were the soldiers expected to know what was on board?
All they knew was that the organisation claimed that they only had relief stuff on board.
Would you trust a safety check at an airport where everyone just claims whether he/she has weapons/explosives etc. with him/her? Or would you rather trust in a safety check that deserves that name?

This is the version of Israelis. The folks who were on ship they had white flags weaving.

Perhaps time to read from unbiased sources?


I would trust on the Israeli version. They already screw up their reputation after forging passports in Dubai. (what happened to those so-called "investigations" by the way?)

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/1...i_armed_attack

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Foxtrot

This is the version of Israelis. The folks who were on ship they had white flags weaving.

Perhaps time to read from unbiased sources?


I would trust on the Israeli version. They already screw up their reputation after forging passports in Dubai. (what happened to those so-called "investigations" by the way?)

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/1...i_armed_attack

Did you notice that the video was cut when the first Israeli soldier boarded the ship, right before he was clubbed down? This isn't exactly what I call unbiased.
Did you see any white flag while the soldiers landed aboard the ship? I did not but maybe they were just not captured on film, however do you start clubbing away on boarding soldiers after having set a white flag? If someone rises a white flag and then starts attacking isn't that regarded as illegal as well?
The reporter claimed that shots could still be heard even though a white flag was raised. So? Rising a white flag is a sign of surrender. If you rise it you signal that you give up. If you give a sign that you surrender but actually keep fighting then your white flag has the same meaning as a piece of toilet paper.
I love it how they are trying to hide behind the white flag as if rising it is enough. No, you also have to stop fighting to give any meaning to a white flag.

You might call the Israeli side propaganda or biased (and it surely is) but your link is so blatantly biased as well that I don't consider this to be any proof.
Why did they cut the video when the first soldier boards the ship just before he gets attacked? Why don't they show how one of the Israeli soldiers was thrown over the railing on a lower deck? Because they are pushing their agenda and aren't interested in showing you the truth!
Not that the Israeli side would be either, but from the videos I've seen so far it seems clear that the activists started the violence and are now crying that they had a white flag.

Schroeder,

are you aware that the attack took place in international waters? And that it's legal to defend yourself, especially with non-lethal force?

[tater]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Schroeder,

are you aware that the attack took place in international waters? And that it's legal to defend yourself, especially with non-lethal force?

The legality of self-defense doesn't matter. A guy with a gun asks you to cooperate illegally. You can legally attack him, but you are guaranteeing that someone is going to get shot. The only reason to attack is then if you WANT someone to get shot.

The appropriate response in a protest situation would have been non-violent, non-cooperation. Assuming you do not want lives lost, that is.