patch 1.2 NO JOKE!

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by Nemesis43

http://www.totalwar.com/napoleon/?t=EnglishUK

ok thanks, so its basically ETW plus Napoleon addon.

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

You could say that ... Expandalone I think they call it. Pay-for-patch+content.

If NTW is a paid patch of ETW, then technically SH5 is a paid patch of SH3.

[Commie]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

I'm curious as to what system and settings you are running Empire on, because I can assure you, the units do not look like something from a 90s game! That would be Rome, if anything.

I think some people have forgotten how terrible games from the 90s actually look.

Exactly, if ETW/NTW do one thing right it's to look good. But that means as with no AI for a supposed strategy game the game itself is ridiculous. I too play only modded RTW and M2TW, which really make the games superb. Still not Gal Civ II AI fiendish, but as good as could be done. Problem is Total Wars scale is too much for the primitive AI to handle. Would be better to make a scripted AI with a limited set of parameters to approximate historical behaviour of nations, rather than make it a free for all where it seems that every one province nation wants to take over the world.

[Laffertytig]

Originally Posted by Coldcall

ok thanks, so its basically ETW plus Napoleon addon.

the guys who said NTW is basically a paid for patch is talkin nonsense. its a standalone game as in your dont need ETW to play it.

i was ETW's biggest critic when it 1st came out. NTW is what ETW shouldve been. the new battle drop in feature where people can drop into your campaign for battles is almost worth the price on its own.

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

the guys who said NTW is basically a paid for patch is talkin nonsense. its a standalone game as in your dont need ETW to play it.

i was ETW's biggest critic when it 1st came out. NTW is what ETW shouldve been. the new battle drop in feature where people can drop into your campaign for battles is almost worth the price on its own.

I'll check it out. Looking for some new games to play and not much out there.

Anyone try the tank sim Steel Fury Kharkov? I've seen some sort of mixed reviews as one gets with most SH titles. Looks like the mod community have also helped that game out.

[DragonRR1]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

Look at the japanese game develeopers. They create games which are Possible. Thats why they succeed. Also they are a bit more focussed on QA. Or is it planning? In either case, they dont overextend themselves.

Now look at americans and europeans. Still infatuated with sandbox games, multiple paths. Enormous complexity. The reason games get so buggy is that developers are too ambitious. They want too many things, and that kills off a lot.

Now, in the genre of simulation you will end up killing yourself because everyone keeps demanding more detail. more realism. Better modelling. And you just can't pull it off as you would like to.

When simulations come from japan, they are much more narrow. Gran Turismo is, if you compare it to SH5 og IL-2, ever so much smaller in scope. That allows for much better execution.

So patching will be needed as long as we create - and demand - ginormous open ended sand box worlds. That or a ridiculous amount of QA pre-launch.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that GT5 is smaller in scope than say SH5 or IL2 but lets face it the budget for GT5 is absolutely HUGE and is obviously very much on a "when it's done" basis.

If you look at say european developed GTAIV (very ambitious, very open world). It was delayed by more than a year despite very extensive marketing. When it came out the console versions were fairly bug free. But again the budget was alleged to be over $100 million! The PC version was riddled with bugs initially. The additional budget for the PC version was probably about 50 quid.

Quite honestly, imo, like everything these days it is all about money. Massive budget usually (but not always) means a fairly bug free final product. There are almost no high budget PC games anymore other than WoW and maybe The Sims. End result, PC gamers tend to get bugged games.

[janh]

Originally Posted by DragonRR1

Quite honestly, imo, like everything these days it is all about money. Massive budget usually (but not always) means a fairly bug free final product. There are almost no high budget PC games anymore other than WoW and maybe The Sims. End result, PC gamers tend to get bugged games.

That really does not have to be that way. Again, the first but not only examples are Matrix Studios, Madminute Games, or the studio that years ago did "Panzerelite". The original panzer sim of WW2 tanks was an incredibile step ahead, groundbreaking and filled with immersion, historic detail and lessons, and most importantly: carefully researched and establoished realism. And at that time the studio was completely new, very small and unknown. But they delivered something pretty much bug free "on first light".

I think they didn't earn a lot with it, but enough to cover the cost and come back a couple years later. They didn't squeeze the last cent out their customers, but they provided an added-value product as exchange for the (money and) trust of the customer. They succeeded.

A couple years later the core of the developers, that had the original idea to make an ultrarealistic (tank) sims had changed, and with it sadly the ideals and goals of the studio. I recall they had two more releases in the last 4 years or so, one being a competitor to bite of a bit of the success of Operation Flashpoint and other 1D combat simulators (Soeldners or so was the title), and that one quickly died due to its initially very buggy release. It sold badly as you could read later and see from a quick price drop, and customer reviews. Some story with SHIV, or now SHV, but that time without DRM adding a huge red sign (that shades even the lightest error in a dark red light) to the casual gamer.

The other release they had was a remake of Panzerelite -- and guess what, they tried to bias it to a wider audience of casual gamers as they, as stated in interviews that time, "realized" that gamers would "prefer more arcade like fun games". As from all I followed afterwards, their "realization" was quite off, and they did not only not enhance the customer basis but simplification of the game, graphic candy, and less sim-like feel, but they also lost their hardcore fan basis very quickly. I don't think they repeated the bug-release story that we get so often these days, and they had a notably bigger etat than for the original Panzerelite, but their "splits" failed. Thereafter, I never again heard about that studio (JoWood?).

Do you have a "déjà vu"? I guess history always repeats, and human aren't exactly learning at lot from it.

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by DragonRR1

I wouldn't necessarily agree that GT5 is smaller in scope than say SH5 or IL2 but lets face it the budget for GT5 is absolutely HUGE and is obviously very much on a "when it's done" basis.

If you look at say european developed GTAIV (very ambitious, very open world). It was delayed by more than a year despite very extensive marketing. When it came out the console versions were fairly bug free. But again the budget was alleged to be over $100 million! The PC version was riddled with bugs initially. The additional budget for the PC version was probably about 50 quid.

Quite honestly, imo, like everything these days it is all about money. Massive budget usually (but not always) means a fairly bug free final product. There are almost no high budget PC games anymore other than WoW and maybe The Sims. End result, PC gamers tend to get bugged games.

I dont agree with the general correlation about big budget means less bugs.

Games in the 80s and 90s had if anything way less bugs. Also in those days we did not have the luxury of a global internet which makes releasing and distributing bug patches very easy today.

Look at all the small dev houses which at one time produced award winning, best seller games. They did not have massive budgets of $100million. Also the $100million budgets you are talking about dont get spent on qa testing but expensive voice-acting and graphics.

There is no correlation between big budget and bug free games. None whatsoever. Its about ethics, commitement, and crossing the i's and dotting the t's. Its like any business. Either you care about the quality of the product that goes out the door, or you dont really care and just want to get paid.

[DragonRR1]

Originally Posted by Coldcall

I dont agree with the general correlation about big budget means less bugs.

Games in the 80s and 90s had if anything way less bugs. Also in those days we did not have the luxury of a global internet which makes releasing and distributing bug patches very easy today.

Look at all the small dev houses which at one time produced award winning, best seller games. They did not have massive budgets of $100million. Also the $100million budgets you are talking about dont get spent on qa testing but expensive voice-acting and graphics.

There is no correlation between big budget and bug free games. None whatsoever. Its about ethics, commitement, and crossing the i's and dotting the t's. Its like any business. Either you care about the quality of the product that goes out the door, or you dont really care and just want to get paid.

I was really referring to the big publishers who only truly care about profits. In these cases it is about the money. Yes there are exceptions where even a high budget title gets forced out. The problem is that games like SH5 are ambitous but are targetted at relatively small (PC) market sectors.

I wasn't referring to the single developer that produces his or her own game, or the more simple Popcap style of game... even then more ambitious indie games like Gratuitous Space Battles initially come out with bugs.

Games in the 80's and 90's were far less complex (generalisation) than games now, less "open world" and easier to test. Even then you still got some games which had game breaking bugs, in those days you just had to put up with them!

I don't think it would be true to say that even Ubisoft management "don't care" that SH5 came out with bugs. They probably care but not enough to actually spend very significant amounts of money delaying the release window.

[GFC Christian]

Originally Posted by joxi

found in the german sh5-ubi-forums:

http://ubisoft-de.custhelp.com/cgi-b...?p_faqid=13375

patch 1.2 will include the following fixes among others: *edit* list is extendable

• Morale bug - If you save and reload the moral is at zero so it’s not possible to use special abilities anymore.
• CO2 not saved bug
• Torpedo autoloading option saved
• Depth to keel indicator in hud
• Manual rudder control
• Fix XO and Chief Engineer abilities (should not cost morale)
• Compass
• Back to course order

Obviously they changed their mind. Since some hours the link the is dead......

Amen.

Originally Posted by DragonRR1

I was really referring to the big publishers who only truly care about profits. In these cases it is about the money.

Of course its about the money, this is not unicef, they dont make games to make you happy.

You deserve to be called bad names, but i cant because the mods will ban me. Just pretend i did and that you feel my ridicule.

[Galanti]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Of course its about the money, this is not unicef, they dont make games to make you happy.

You deserve to be called bad names, but i cant because the mods will ban me. Just pretend i did and that you feel my ridicule.

Are you for real?

[kylania]

Originally Posted by Galanti

Are you for real?

Don't provoke him or he shall taunt you a second time!

[AVGWarhawk]

[DragonRR1]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Of course its about the money, this is not unicef, they dont make games to make you happy.

You deserve to be called bad names, but i cant because the mods will ban me. Just pretend i did and that you feel my ridicule.

Odd really. There I am saying that it IS about the money .. You then agree and want to call me names. Have you seen someone about your anger issue?

EDIT:
Hopefully the deleted link doesn't actually mean Ubi have decided not to do a patch!