Governor elections and other issues.

[Zachstar]

I disagree. Such a blatant view based on results from flawed candidates in my view does not represent America as a whole.

But I will concede that the current attitude of "cuddle with republicans and blue dogs and somehow profit" needs to change. Again people do not vote dem to get pub. If they want pubs they vote pubs. A 1200 page healthcare bill with a weak ass public option and full of concessions for the insurance industry will not help dems in 2010 unless they get on the ball and start passing measures that have more of an impact now.

The EFCA is still waiting to be passed for instance.

[Zachstar]

Early but it looks like fox has called NY-23 for Owens and it looks like the other one may go dem as well.

That will be a big one for the GOP to chew on.

Ok confirmed that Hoffman has conceded. Congrats dems on salvaging the night. However we need to remember to stop running weak ass candidates and blue dogs and expect repubs to vote dem for just that reason.

Edit: NY-23 has gone dem. And given a pretty bad defeat to the tea party crowd. In my opinion the GOP needs to stop letting tea party folks define their party.

[GoldenRivet]

next stop:

Congress.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

next stop:

Congress.

A bit early to call officially but I would say dems took both major elections. The NY-23 one being the biggest because of its special circumstances.

Dems got a lesson on running bad candidates that are deep in controversy or bad mouth mainstream Dem ideas.

Repubs got their first major taste of letting tea party folks define their party and lost seats. That is a recoverable defeat but a pretty serious one because they have to learn to calm them down.

If is official and dems took those seats I would say a slight win for dems tonight tho I say again SLIGHT. Only because we can easily stop trying to cuddle to blue dogs.


OK Its been called! CA10 has been called for Jogn Garamendi! 2 seats in the house is no small potatoes! But we could have easilly avoided the 2 state defeats by not acting like a bunch of idiots.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

I disagree. Such a blatant view based on results from flawed candidates in my view does not represent America as a whole.

But I will concede that the current attitude of "cuddle with republicans and blue dogs and somehow profit" needs to change. Again people do not vote dem to get pub. If they want pubs they vote pubs. A 1200 page healthcare bill with a weak ass public option and full of concessions for the insurance industry will not help dems in 2010 unless they get on the ball and start passing measures that have more of an impact now.

The EFCA is still waiting to be passed for instance.

It's actually going top be uphill now for any real liberal policy. The one thing that is going to totally rip apart the dem majority is the economy. People are seriously worried about that, and things are getting worse...not better. Projected unemployment (from the White House) actually is worse than what they originally estimated. We've had some of their economic water carriers calling 10% unemployment the "new norm". Seriously, that doesn't inspire anyone, and admits the flaw. And democrats have been pursuing policies which negatively affect business growth. They are not providing any incentive for growth with the amount of control they have attempted to wrestle away from private sector interests. From forced bailouts, to control of pay issues, it is a disaster. Simply put..with these Democrats in control, it has not been a good business environment. Investors know that. Companies are not taking risks, and expanding operations. That bodes terrible for next year for Democrats. Next year's elections will be here before you know it.

And as GR says, it's time to go after Congress. This is only the first stop.

[Zachstar]

People are not suddenly going to forget about Bush. And if your view was true we would have lost those 2 fed races tonight.

And the investment situation is more due to the lack of willingness from bailed out banks to give loans and the fear of bubbles. Unemployment is still due to the shock of the recession

You know what is funny tho? Dems are talking just like you. Trumpting thoughts like double dip recession and the like.. WTF are dems going to gain from an economic collaspse? Do some of these environmentalist dummies relize that in a serious economic collapse environmentalism will be thrown out the window as people burn what they can to keep warm and keep power?

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

People are not suddenly going to forget about Bush. And if your view was true we would have lost those 2 fed races tonight.

People certainly aren't going to forget about the menace currently in the White House now. Bush is gone. Everything going on now is on Obama. This pile of rubble belongs to him and the Democrats in Congress. And with the quadrupling of the deficit and other major problems...they have made things much worse.

And the investment situation is more due to the lack of willingness from bailed out banks to give loans and the fear of bubbles. Unemployment is still due to the shock of the recession

That's certainly a part of it. But people also understand what role government has played into that issue. And it's big. There are people and companies that already have the capital in place but won't expand operations due to the business climate. While there is alot of blame to go around, blame won't fix the economy just so Democrats can be elected next November. Sorry but this growing unemployment problem is simply unacceptable. And businesses are certainly not going to take capital risks with Obama in the White House demonizing businesses, demonizing the capitalist system, proposing tax increases, ending tax incentives for growth, hiring pro-chavez/Mao loving economic czars, and making enemies lists.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

And with the quadrupling of the deficit and other major problems...they have made things much worse.

According to the Congressional Budget Office’s January 2009 estimate for fiscal year 2009, outlays were projected to be $3,543 billion and revenues were projected to be $2,357 billion, leaving a deficit of $1,186 billion. Keep in mind that these estimates were made before Obama took office, based on existing law and policy, and did not take into account any actions that Obama might implement.
Therefore, unless one thinks that McCain would have somehow or other raised taxes and cut spending (with a Democratic Congress), rather than enacting a stimulus of his own, then a deficit of $1.2 trillion was baked in the cake the day Obama took office. Any suggestion that McCain would have brought in a lower deficit is simply fanciful.

[SteamWake]

The republican running for the NY seat was as liberal if not moreso than his opponent.

[Skybird]

A German newspaper yesterday summed up the political reality in the US nicely. It said something like:

Obama came by the promise to reshape America. Now we see America reshaping Obama.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

And just what are Democrats doing to fix the budget deficits other than making it much worse. I believe we're looking at an overall deficit increase (projected from new spending and projected healthcare spending) of $11 Trillion. The trends from last night prove that voters aren't going to go for the blame shifting that Democrats are attempting here.

This is Obama's deficits. No way to shake that. Can't shift the blame. The buck stops at the desk of Obama. The more he continues to try and blame others for his failures, the worse it will get for him. Watch and learn.

Anyway mookie, the Democrats have already sold guys like you down the river. You're kind of like an abused wife that's trying to believe it willl get better if you can just hang on.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Anyway mookie, the Democrats have already sold guys like you down the river. You're kind of like an abused wife that's trying to believe it willl get better if you can just hang on.

Whats your alternative? "Moderate is no longer conservative enough for the GOP. Conservative is moderate. Scrawl-with-your-own-feces crazy is conservative. So, essentially, the only way to be fringe on the right is to want to blow stuff up, and even then it depends on what the target is."

[Zachstar]

Several who decided to show up on the news networks to talk about how this is a refrendum or warning to the president and a win to the tea party folks were utterly defeated on air after results came in on the 2 fed elections.

Note for next time... Wait until it is all over before you make such silly generalization we dems can just as easily say that our two fed wins tonight are a note of victory to the white house.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Note for next time... Wait until it is all over before you make such silly generalization we dems can just as easily say that our two fed wins tonight are a note of victory to the white house.

Yeah, except there are trends leading away from this. Especially the indeciseveness on the war, and the souring economy and unemployment. Tonight was huge for the GOP. The fact that Hoffman was within 3 points with Republicans still giving Scozzafave 5 points has to tell you something. Especially as Hoffman wasn't a GOP candidate. And Owens certainly won't vote like a liberal in that district. At any rate, I believe Owens won't last long in that seat.

[Zachstar]

Except for the string of dem wins in Pa in other areas.

Seriously just move on to 2010 as tonight changes nothing the 2 govs will not vote on healthcare. The war is up to Obama. etc.. etc..

Now I will say this. If we look at this as an assumed victory in 2010 dems will get pummeled. They've got to get healthcare to a vote soon and get some of this backlog though and do something besides parties and patting on the back.