Obama Administration vows to provide path for citizenship

[Platapus]

Well there probably is no perfect solution to the "immigration problem" . At least I have not read of any solution that is perfect.

"In broad outlines, officials said, the Obama administration favors legislation that would bring illegal immigrants into the legal system by recognizing that they violated the law, and imposing fines and other penalties to fit the offense. The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers."

As an imperfect solution this one does not sound all that bad.

What's a better solution? Operation Wetback II?

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well there probably is no perfect solution to the "immigration problem" . At least I have not read of any solution that is perfect.

"In broad outlines, officials said, the Obama administration favors legislation that would bring illegal immigrants into the legal system by recognizing that they violated the law, and imposing fines and other penalties to fit the offense. The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers."

As an imperfect solution this one does not sound all that bad.

What's a better solution? Operation Wetback II?

That would probably depend on what definitions are given to "fit the offense" and "cracking down". Until the alleged legislation is written, all that "broad outline" is is rhetoric.

[CaptainHaplo]

A better alternative? Easy

#1 - Stop providing a social safety net or service to all illegal immigrants.
This includes welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, health care, education, etc.

#2 - Enforce current law regarding the employment of an "undocumented" worker. If an employer is caught with illegal employees - then pay the fines required by law, do jail time - and then try to run that same business... Basically - if you hire illegals - you end up losing your business - which I don't have a problem with since you are, as liberals point out - taking advantage of people. So lets do what is already law - and make the cost of that practice too high?

These two steps require no dead of night immigration forces busting down doors, no forced deportations. In addition, what you do is tell people they have 3 months before enforcement of these laws go into effect. That gives people enough time to make a decision and impliment it. For employers they have time to get new people trained, for the illegal employees, they have the opportunity to save a few bucks (vs sending it back to mexico as they do now) in preparation for their return to where they belong.

More legislation never fixed any real problem - these employment rules have been on the books for decades and never enforced. So someone tell me what the devil is wrong with doing this?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well there probably is no perfect solution to the "immigration problem" . At least I have not read of any solution that is perfect.

"In broad outlines, officials said, the Obama administration favors legislation that would bring illegal immigrants into the legal system by recognizing that they violated the law, and imposing fines and other penalties to fit the offense. The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers."

As an imperfect solution this one does not sound all that bad.

I agree that there is no perfect solution, but Obama's plan is unsustainable and idealistic.
Firstly, there's the effect of dumping up to 12 million additional people onto social programs like medicare, medicaid, and social security all at once. Social Security alone is going to bankrupt the country within a few decades at the rate we're going.
Of course, that asumes that they're all willing to pay fines to become citizens, some may choose to remain illegal. And what would amnesty tell other potential illegals? Break the law long enough and you'll be fine?
Coupled with revolving-door deportation, it hardly seems practicable.

Secondly, there is also the cost of maintaining border security. Yeah we sort of have a fence, but it has to be monitored or it is just a speedbump. Illegal immigrants have repeatedly demonstrated their will to bypass localized monitoring, even when it means possibly dying in the desert.
And the border is like 2000 miles long. And there's also the coast.
Trying to dam up the border would be tremendously expensive in terms of both initial capital and annual operating expenses.
Regulating employers also costs a lot of money. Inspectors would be needed. More bureacracy would be needed to support them.
We both know that if there is one thing the government has ever done well, it is to make huge bureacracies. And on top of that we have a new system for verifying immigration status? God only know what that will cost, but it's a certainty that it won't work the way it is supposed to.

-This applies to CH, too
Thirdly, cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants isn't going to help anyone. As previously stated, illegals mostly fufill jobs no one wants anyways. The thing that riles everybody is the costs they incur on various state budgets. Plus we'd shut down a lot of small business that relies on cheap labor to exsist. That means less choice for consumers. It also means less jobs for legal workers or citizens in some cases.

Take away their public benefits and then just let the market work. Even if there is a huge influx of immigrants, they'd have little effect on public spending and their wages would be driven down to the point that most would just go home. If illegals decide they don't want to work for less than everyone else the system automatically adjusts to either offer them more pay, or meet the wage/benefit demands of the legal labor pool.

There might not be a perfect solution, but that doesn't mean we can't have a solution that works well.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I agree that there is no perfect solution, but Obama's plan is unsustainable and idealistic.

Considering that we don't know exactly what President Obama's plan is, this is all a lot of guesswork.

I will wait until I see what the plan is before I will form an opinion.

The "broad outline" is what we have but I need to see the details before I can opine whether it is sustainable or unsustainable.

[Neptunus Rex]

I might support if;

1) They honestly declare when they actually entered the USA.
2) They pay all back taxes on all income earned during that time.
3) Pay the interest and penalty for not paying the taxes.
4) Pay a penalty for having entered illegally.
5) Pay back for any services received.

Wow, I just realized that 2,3, and 4 are the eligibility criteria for becoming a part of the Obama administration.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Neptunus Rex

I might support if;

1) They honestly declare when they actually entered the USA.
2) They pay all back taxes on all income earned during that time.
3) Pay the interest and penalty for not paying the taxes.
4) Pay a penalty for having entered illegally.
5) Pay back for any services received.

Wow, I just realized that 2,3, and 4 are the eligibility criteria for becoming a part of the Obama administration.

Eeven No. 1 has been debated.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Considering that we don't know exactly what President Obama's plan is, this is all a lot of guesswork.

I will wait until I see what the plan is before I will form an opinion.

The "broad outline" is what we have but I need to see the details before I can opine whether it is sustainable or unsustainable.

I can certainly respect such objectivity. However, I cannot share your optimism that a successful plan might be developed using any of his guidelines. The idea that congress, of all people, would come up with an innovative way to avoid the harms I outlined in Obama's general plan, especially given the polarizing nature of the issue, is laughable to me.
It's hard to say that without sounding insulting, but I mean no disrespect.