V.P. Debate poll

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

'Honorable'? Really. In the last election whenever the Democrats would complain about the Swift Boat ads, I was quick to bring up the fact that their side compared Bush to Hitler long before that.

But this time? McCain's intense attacks started right at the beginning. I lost any respect for him as a candidate right then.

Honorable in McCains own view.. that's why I put it in ' '

[UnderseaLcpl]

Somehow, we have confused the idea that political aptitude has anything to do with political success. Palin wins by holding her own, more or less. Period.

Watch as the McCain-Palin ticket locks up a large portion of the swing vote (read ,female vote) and goes on to win in November. Short of a liberal media rally that somehow dienfranchises female voters, I don't see any hope of victory for Obama.

The main problem that Obama faces lies in the fact that women are an important liberal demographic. Therefore, a female vote for the McCain ticket is not +1 vote for the Republicans, but rather, -1 vote for the Dems +1 vote for the Republicans.
Couple that with the relatively high voter turnout of Republicans versus the relatively low turnout of Dems and you have a Republican victory.

Next, factor in that Obama is black. There are a lot of trailer-park democrats who won't vote for him just because of that, civil rights be damned. Even if they won't say it quite like that.

McCain-Palin is the winner in '08. Best start debating what that entails rather than who will win.

Question me if you like but expect to see this post quoted, by me, in November.

I don't like it, and I don't like the alternative, but that's how it is.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

I'm not sure that I understand your post, do you think that women will vote for McCain just because of Palin ?

Yes, but allow me to qualify that.

Many will. Not all of course. But even if we supposed that a relatively small number of women voted for McCain because of Palin, this would be very damaging to the Democratic cause.

There are a lot of female Hillary supporters that have switched sides because of the Palin nomination.

Naturally, this is not the only factor, but many factors are working against Obama here.


McCain will win in 08' wait and see.....

[nikimcbee]

The thing that makes me most upset:

ASK THESE 2 PUTZES ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, NOT ONE QUESTION ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!



Stop asking about gay marrage, and ask about real issues.

[Digital_Trucker]

That's what happens when you let idiots moderate the "debates" and the moderator chooses the questions.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

There are a lot of female Hillary supporters that have switched sides because of the Palin nomination.

As far as I've seen, that really hasn't happened.

Real links and proper thoughts to follow later. Gaming & Booze time now.

[GlobalExplorer]

The intellectual in me says Biden crushed Palin. I was personally inspired by this man, who represents for me the ideal American. If I was an American myself I would go as far that he impressed me more than Obama.

But Sarah Palin did well too! She will snatch a lot of votes from womanfolk who identity with her. I was always reminded her way of dealing with the audience like she was a very popular mother/teacher talking to boys, age 6-12, and how other mothers would love her for that ability. She even blinked an eye at times.

So yeah, on the emotional side, she really did quite well, and that counts with a lot of people. She also managed to fix a lot of broken dishes by not sounding like a dangerous conservative anymore, if that already qualifies her for the office is not mine to decide, but yesterday she didnt scare people.

She returned to the status of a regular candiate, and not the laughing stock she used to be. But it's entirely possible that it will all come back in a few days if she has to answer direct questions again in normal interviews.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

The intellectual in me says Biden crushed Palin. I was personally inspired by this man, who represents for me the ideal American. If I was an American myself I would go as far that he impressed me more than Obama.

But Sarah Palin did well too! She will snatch a lot of votes from womanfolk who identity with her. I was always reminded her way of dealing with the audience like she was a very popular mother/teacher talking to boys, age 6-12, and how other mothers would love her for that ability. She even blinked an eye at times.

So yeah, on the emotional side, she really did quite well, and that counts with a lot of people. She also managed to fix a lot of broken dishes by not sounding like a dangerous conservative anymore, if that already qualifies her for the office is not mine to decide, but yesterday she didnt scare people.

She returned to the status of a regular candiate, and not the laughing stock she used to be. But it's entirely possible that it will all come back in a few days if she has to answer direct questions again in normal interviews.

Unfortunately, you just flew past the normal level of cognition of the average American voter by about this much;

The intellectual in me

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl
There are a lot of female Hillary supporters that have switched sides because of the Palin nomination.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

As far as I've seen, that really hasn't happened.

Real links and proper thoughts to follow later. Gaming & Booze time now.

Don't believe everything you see. Most of the media surveys tend towards a liberal bias, whether they intend it or not.

But I will await real links and proper thoughts before I say more. Enjoy your booze and games I wish I could join you.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

A tie. Neither made any giant gaffes. It wasn't the train wreck that I thought it may be. Fairly dull.

The only thing of any real interest that struck me was how impartial and professional the moderator was given the host of complaints and outrage by some members on this forum and by the McCain campaign.

Oh yeah, and that single VP debate ain't going to make jack of a difference come the November election but everyone knew that anyway.

I didn't weigh in on that on this board, but it professional conduct at the debate doesn't excuse the conflict of interest. The fact of the matter is that she has a financial stake in the outcome of the election, likely worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. And she did not disclose this conflict of interest to the board that runs the debates. That was unethical by any standard.

Being an attorney, I tend to compare things like this to the way things work in my profession. All joking about our trade aside, we take professional ethics seriously. Journalists should have a sense of ethics too. Had Ifill been a judge and had Palin and Biden as parties before her, and not disclosed her conflict and recused herself from the case, she would have been disbarred from practice and probably prosecuted for corruption. It would not have been a defense had she in fact been able to preside over the case fairly, professional ethics demand that when you have a financial stake in one of the parties, you do not preside over their cases, PERIOD. Ifill should never be selected to moderate any debate ever again.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Frame57

IMO Sarah needs to knock off the "Geez, gosh golly " stuff. I too was not impressed by the debate. Really what I would like to see is both candidates Obama and McCain do an address the nation type deal on the TV. Simply present their plans in detail, because that is what we want to know. Not his same old "he voted for this or that", over and over again...

I haven't been impressed with any presidential campaign debate except for Cheney/Lieberman. Probably the only debate where the focus was on substance over presentation (although to be fair, a highlight was when Lieberman mentioned his success in the private sector and Cheney joked that he wanted to help Lieberman by sending him back to it).

Originally Posted by NikiMcBee

The thing that makes me most upset:

ASK THESE 2 PUTZES ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, NOT ONE QUESTION ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!

Both of these putzes work for running mates that have the same essential position on illegal immigration: offer amnesty to illegals here, and secure the border. There isn't anything to debate, and whoever brings it up will just alienate the many people who don't like amnesty.

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

I don't know about that, maybe most women are just as stupid as men and so would indeed vote for a woman regarless of her ideas like men would vote for a "guy like us, or worse", but somehow I doubt it. Appart from their gender there's no much thing that Palin and Hillary have in common. It might play for the "totally clueless & non partisan" portion of women but that's it.
Now about the final win, well we'll see, as a half breed something, I hope you're wrong

I don't think there many women are going to vote for Palin because she's a woman, any more than many women supported Clinton because she's a woman. The key thing to keep in mind here is that nearly 90% of US voters have their minds made up about what party they support and they aren't going to change their minds anytime soon. There's about 10-15% of the population that's somewhere in the middle who decide elections. So a very small number of undecideds won over makes a huge difference. The Clinton voters who might be converted are not committed Democrats, but part of that middle.

[Blacklight]

All I can say is "At least Biden actually ANSWERED most of his questions instead of just tap dancing around them like Palin did."

I'm surprised she didn't really tick people off when she was asked about the jobless rates and wages shrinking for the middle class. Her answer was pretty much "We have to put more money in education !"
Yeah.. the reason that the middle class's job market is drying up and their earnings are decreasing is because they're uneducated.

Oh.. and if she winked at me a few more times, I'd have expected a 1-800 number to pop up on the screen.

I also think the woman running the debate did a godawful job of it.

[Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

The thing that makes me most upset:

ASK THESE 2 PUTZES ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, NOT ONE QUESTION ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!

But we need these people to do jobs Americans won't do!

That would require them to do one of two things, either come clean concerning the issue, and give a reasonable responce, or lie and show their true colors, which I'm guessing is lobbyist, and special interest money green.

[Tchocky]

Katie Couric: What do you think is the best and worst thing that Dick Cheney has done as vice president?

Joe Biden: I'm not being a wise guy here ... that I don't know what he's done. I mean, there's not many things I'd pick that I thought he's done that have been good. But I admire his strength. I admire his willingness to take positions that are completely contrary to popular opinion. But I think that what he's done has been just, I don't think Dick Cheney trusts that the American people can make judgments that are in the interest of the country. But the thing I think he's really, really has done: I think he's done more harm than any other single high elected official in memory in terms of shredding the constitution. You know, condoning torture, pushing torture as a policy. This idea of a unitary executive, meaning the Congress and the people have no power in a time of war, and the president controls everything. I don't have any animus toward Dick Cheney but I really do think his attitude about the constitution and the prosecution of this war has been absolutely wrong.

Sarah Palin: Worst thing, I guess that would have been the duck-hunting accident, where you know, that was an accident. And that I think that was made into a caricature of him. And that was kind of unfortunate.

So, the best thing though, he's shown support, along with George W. Bush, of our troops. And I've been there when George Bush has spoken to families of those who have suffered greatly, those who are serving in the military. I've been there when President Bush has embraced those families and expressed the concern and the sympathy speaking for all of America in those times. And for Dick Cheney to have supported that effort of George Bush's. I respect that.

heh heh.

[NealT]

I hate the debates. They prep and prep and prep and really don't speak the truth anyway. They work so hard to get their points across...and in the end analysis it really makes no difference...

Nothing changes!

[Skybird]

I saw excerpts of it meanwhile. Terrible. What a humiliation to a political culture.

Palin did not perform as bad as expected, but she certainly performed much worse than Biden. Little schoolgirl that learned her words for the yearly spelling competition well - and was proud of it. I just waited for her starting to hop in place in excitement. No pigtails, though.

I could imagine that many american women who were for Clinton feel offended by McCain's plump expectation to get their vote by throwing something unripe like Palin into the match. She is almost the antithesis to Clinton.