Ghosts of Bataan

[Schroeder]

@Ducimus

Don't be to angry with your countrymen. I can asure you that this is not only an American problem....

[AVGWarhawk]

Keep an eye out for it with Memorial Day coming up. Alsao watch out for it on Veteran's (Armistice) Day.

It all depends on what the networks want to show. I believe it was last year one of the channels that shows the older movies and specifically on Memorial Day they show films such as "Midway"....it was Chuck Norris movies all day. I could not believe it.

Bataan, Nanking (probably the most brutal), death ships were men were kept in the holds without water/toilets for not days but weeks....unbelievable to be sure.

[Charlielima]

Hieneous! When I was in Japan in the Navy I embraced thier culture and even went shinto and still have it. I don't get were they have to treat people that way. We must of killed off all the evil bastards there. I am evil tho. When folks talk about interned terrorists I have a problem not mentioning pork chops in thier punishment. CL

[BH]

Not to mention that the japanese government said the day after FDR announced that the capture allied airmen of the doolittle raid had been executed that any captured allied airman would be"given a one way ticket to hell." and that IJN submarine attacked an austrailian hospital ship that was clearly marked.

[clayp]

To bad we only had two small bombs........

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by clayp

To bad we only had two small bombs........

Oh you had plenty of revenge clayp.

When it comes to the killing of the defenseless, the US can hold its head up with the rest of us.

[Ducimus]

And with that post, i predict this thread will spiral downward into another bout of US bashing. Perhaps this thread should now be moved to the general forum since its been effectively hijacked in both content and context. :rotfl:

[ancient46]

I can remember sitting down in front of the TV every sunday to watch "Victory at Sea" as a child. The stock footage from the war and the wonderfully matched score by Richard Rodgers really was a real treat for a youhg boy. The horrors and intense struggles of the Armed forces and merchant marine depicted in those 26 shows had great impact. The sacrifice of men and women of all countries should be revered forever by every person on the planet. What we have today was made possible by those who served.

Anyone interested in the shows can find them on a three CD set by Mill Creek. I bought mine recently at Wal-Mart from the value bin for five dollars. It is just as good as I remembered.

[joegrundman]

I think Douglas MacArthur is an intriguing person.

Did you know he was very highly regarded in Japan (by the Japanese) during the post-war years?

I find it remarkable that a man with such a personal history in the pacific war was able to put it all aside and deal with the conquered japanese with such respect and finesse.

One of his aphorims, badly mangled by me, is that "it's easy to deal with the Japanese- you just have to imagine you are talking to precocious 12 year olds" to which the Japanese apparently agreed.

[Hylander_1314]

Wow! Victory at Sea. When I was a youngster, that was mine and Dad's special time. I would even be allowed to set my homework aside so we could watch it.

Ducimus,

I hope this thread doesn't take a nasty downturn. Having these "history" oriented threads is always good, as I sometimes pick up little additions to historical references I may already be familiar with.

Can't argue with the issue about Independence Day. I see it too, especially in the younger crowds. No care except that it's a 3 and sometimes 4 day weekend. "Give them bread and circus'".

It's pretty cool when my daughter has friends over for a group effort on History homework. I have a very captive audience. And all it takes, is my daughter to say, Dad, can you explain what happenned in the colonies after the Declaration of Independence was signed? And away I go!

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by BH

Not to mention that the japanese government said the day after FDR announced that the capture allied airmen of the doolittle raid had been executed that any captured allied airman would be"given a one way ticket to hell." and that IJN submarine attacked an austrailian hospital ship that was clearly marked.

The Centuar was the hospital ship. I know as there is a plaque at the back of my church in memory of one of the nurses that went down with the ship.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

And with that post, i predict this thread will spiral downward into another bout of US bashing. Perhaps this thread should now be moved to the general forum since its been effectively hijacked in both content and context. :rotfl:

I think that is a natural behaviour. If one side is accused of atrocities it will tend to defend itself. If defence isn't possible (I think the facts can't be denied here) they start their own offensive.
I think that is also because it seems (at least to me) as if Americans were often talking about how bad the others were but do seldom reflect on their own dark sides.

This might be wrong since I only get a small incomplete picture of discussions going on in the US but that is the way I (and probably a lot of other people) often see it.
But we might take such international forums as a chance to clear away prejudices and talk about it.

[piersyf]

I dunno. Personally if any person can make comments about what another country did to his country but others aren't allowed to say back, then there is a problem with honesty. We criticise the Japanese for denying the truth to their own youth through slanted history books, but as was pointed out at the beginning of this thread, the Bataan march is almost unknown outside military history circles. If the truth is to be remembered, let it be the truth of ALL participants, not just the winners. How many people know that the Japanese attacked the US because the US made a trade decision between Japan and China? China was the larger market and a government more pro-American so the US took sides in the Sino-Japanese war and stopped supplying oil to Japan. Sure, the Japanes had choices, like just give up after what, 8 years of fighting in China (morally shouldn't have been there in the first place) but you can't say the US wasn't aware that Japan might be somewhat miffed at the US response.
One of my Uncles died in New Guinea fighting the Japanese, and we too had our death marches. Changi is rather famous for us. The work of Sir Edward 'Weary' Dunlop for keeping so many men alive in the camp. The Burma railway. The group of female nurses who were beheaded on a beach after swimming ashore from a sunken transport, the British, Australian and Dutch women forced to 'serve' Japanese officers. It was a nasty war alright, but I know we looked on them as animals at the time (ie; sub-human)... just watch some of the newsreels. I've seen footage of my own RAAF crews machinegunning japanese lifeboats after sinking a ship and the enthusiastic "give the little nips what for' from the voice-over dude. Tell the truth, and let it be known from both sides, or we risk repeating the whole thing. Ignorance is how govenments lead us into these messes in the first place (altered expletives). And isn't ignorance a part of the complaint of this thread?

Oh BTW, the reason there are movies about the Battered Bastards of Bataan but not the march afterwards is that the idea of the largest mass surrender of US troops in WW2 and that the US government wrote them off (couldn't rescue them or supply them) is not considered pallatable to a US audience.

[joea]

Originally Posted by clayp

To bad we only had two small bombs........

Way to ruin this important thread, it was about rememberance not hatred.

Good post piersyf, I still think the moral respoinsibility, for that war, rests with the Axis agressors but we certainly should reflect on the wrong done by all countries then or since. We should not be perpetuating the hatred either.

[AVGWarhawk]

Good thread, please keep it on track fellas. Specifics and outcome of the A bomb have been discussed before. Other facets of the war are being discussed here and are interesting. Please keep the idea afloat.