Parenting Question; 20+ but doesn't want to leave

[Aktungbby]

I've been where your at with my now 33 yearold about-to-be married only daughter. Girls generally pick a copy of their dad so he's likely your clone of sorts! (but plays better chess) My daughter informed me "Dad everything he says reminds me of You",...so I had to be nice for the 5 years they've lived together. This matter is for the girls to handle; stay out of it and "above the fray" in neutral patriarch fashion. Your long suffering wife is actually just avoiding 'empty nest' syndrome! As with my mom when I stayed home briefly after college while working as an alarm agent, but moved out on my own at age 22;...some token rent stipend might be in order; but I wouldn't push it either. Plus...I wear pink pants when I golf! and U only use motor boats for murder; they're faster in the getaways.

[Platapus]

oh boy, this is the story of my life.


At one time or another we have each of The Frau's four "adult" kids living with us. Finally she purchased a condo so they had some place else to live. Occasionally they pay rent.



Currently we are supporting one of her 34 year old daughters, her husband and two kids and there is no end in sight.


There are three issues, as I see it



1. These days there is no shame in sponging off parents like there was in my day. I would have been so ashamed if I was living with my parents as an adult in my 20's. That shame is lacking these days.



2. Parents are not preparing their kids to be independent adults. The number one priority of any parent (any species) is to train the offspring to be able to function as independent adults. I get this from The Frau all the time "I have to take care of them" well, I guess we are screwed. If children are being supported by their parents why would they change?



3. Kids don't want to start at the bottom. The Frau and I live in a nice house and we have a nice life. What her kids don't realize is that it took us each 20 years of living poor and working ourselves up to the current standard of life. Her kids (and I assume a lot of kids) want to smoothly continue the quality of life that their parents scrimped and saved for decades to be able to afford. The fact that they may have to live a lower standard of living when they first start out is unacceptable to them.


But ultimately, it is the parent's fault. In my family, it was made very clear to me that when I turned 18 it was "time to go forth and earn thy fortune" with the emphasis on the going forth. I could not wait to get out of my parent's house. They made my life miserable. It was not until years later that I recognized the wisdom. If they had coddled me and felt guilty responsibility to provide me with everything they earned, why would I leave. By making it uncomfortable, they were encouraging me to do what I needed to do.



That I feel is what is missing these days and is certainly what was missing in The Frau's parenting.



Unfortunately, if they are already in their 20's it may be very difficult to get them to change.



You have to find a way to motivate them to move out. It is not easy and they will "hate" you for a while. But after a few years on their own, they should recognize the wisdom of Tough Love.

[mapuc]

While I played some game I came to think of what my Mom said to me while I lived at her place together with my little sister. I guess I was around 21 years old then.

Son I'm not kicking you out, 'cause I know how much you earn as student and how much it cost to have your own apartment and all the rest. I will however, if you decide to live under my roof, have monthly payment.

If I remember correctly my Mom wanted 1000 Swedish Kronor each month. this was for the room and food.

I did not protest at all-More sad I didn't think of it by myself.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Shady Bill

She works very hard, has a little first job. She takes college classes online, at night. All very admirable.

So she is under full steam!? Sounds as if she tries what she can to imporve her life situation, but either cnanot afford an own household, or has plans with that money she earns!? Maybe to make independence affordable in the future?

With 20, I really see not the big problem so far when people are not lazy in hotel Mama. People are different, some are eager to conquer the world, some less so, and such differences are fine. Who says we all must tick according to the same norm?

Just a few decades ago, often three generations lived under the same roof, btw. It had its pros and cons.

Ask her for her plans. Its the obvious thing to do.


And no, not everbyody is a ripe, matzure adult at his 18th birthday. Some are early. Some need more time. Thats how it is.


20, my God, whats the problem. As long as she is not lazy and just dreams through the day, but indeed seems to follow her charted course that she has plot. It makes no sense to say "back in my days it was like this and that." Times have changed, so has the world. It starts with costs of living in big cities, and ends with mere availability of flats, places to stay, student homes, whatever. Its all much more difficult than at my time back then, and I would not need to do it again today.

[Shady Bill]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Girls generally pick a copy of their dad so he's likely your clone of sorts! (but plays better chess)
Plus...I wear pink pants when I golf! and U only use motor boats for murder; they're faster in the getaways.

You salty bastard, even now you burn my chess prowess, in a non-chess related thread

You offer wise advice though.

My wife claims I owned and wore a salmon colored, long sleeve shirt when we started dating. I find this doubtful...but maybe...

Pink pants on the golf course are wonderful. But you don't wear bowling shoes to a wedding. The kid is a 6'4" construction worker...stay away from tight fitting pink pants imo. But that is our wonderful, new generation. Very colorful bunch to say the least.

[Shady Bill]

This was sobering to read. This could be me in a few years.

Originally Posted by Platapus

Unfortunately, if they are already in their 20's it may be very difficult to get them to change.

My wife is very similar. I finally convinced her last year a 19 year old girl should do her own laundry. I often tell my wife she should abandon motherhood and just start a church to our daughter. Become a nun. Our daughter can do no wrong in her eyes. Often frustrating.

Thank you for those insights, as sobering as they are.

[Shady Bill]

Improve her situation?

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sounds as if she tries what she can to imporve her life situation, but either cnanot afford an own household, or has plans with that money she earns!? Maybe to make independence affordable in the future?


I take it you don't have a 20 year old daughter, Skybird? Make-up and clothing...that's where 75% of her money goes Hence my concerns.

Her and her boyfriend are "saving for a house"...at current rate of saving they will be looking at homes in the year 2032.

Just a few decades ago, often three generations lived under the same roof, btw. It had its pros and cons.

I had my mother-in-law live with us during Covid for 8 weeks...I nearly killed the woman. The three generations thing won't work for me

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

I've been where your at with my now 33 yearold about-to-be married only daughter. Girls generally pick a copy of their dad so he's likely your clone of sorts! (but plays better chess) My daughter informed me "Dad everything he says reminds me of You",...so I had to be nice for the 5 years they've lived together. This matter is for the girls to handle; stay out of it and "above the fray" in neutral patriarch fashion. Your long suffering wife is actually just avoiding 'empty nest' syndrome! As with my mom when I stayed home briefly after college while working as an alarm agent, but moved out on my own at age 22;...some token rent stipend might be in order; but I wouldn't push it either. Plus...I wear pink pants when I golf! and U only use motor boats for murder; they're faster in the getaways.

You were completely remiss in your responsibilities, Aktung. Your number one priority was to make sure your daughter didn't date anyone who was even remotely like you. When I dated different women, the mum's liked me, the dad's, not so much. I'm sure the dad's thought I had ulterior motives where their daughters were concerned. I did but how did they know ? Occasionally, it was just the opposite.

Sky kinda hit the nail on the head. With current economics / Inflation, rents have gone through the roof. Kids today would eat all their meals out. Then they complain they have no money to pay bills. A woman that I dated had no idea how to buy / cook in bulk. I would make things in a 13 quart roaster pan / oven. I would leave a little in the fridge for the week and freeze the rest. I portioned everything out in 1 meal containers. I did this with everything. I grew up watching my mum cook and only figured it out later she had been teaching me. We would talk after I got home from school in our huge kitchen. Same with laundry and other things. The only time I ate out was while on a date. On dates, I also would make dinner at my place or they would make dinner. I budgeted everything. Kids today have very little in the way of life skills.

I played in bands in high school and on graduating, we hit the road and were gone. Later with college and service along with the previous bands, It wasn't that I ever moved out. I was just never home and stopped going home altogether, if that makes sense. I was only a phone call away and would see the folks for dinner maybe once a week or every two weeks when things settled down.

Oddly enough, when one or the other of my parents were Ill, I would go home to look after them and my room was just as I left it years before. I would end up staying and leaving for work from there instead of my place.

The economy and inflation has everything screwed up and more and more families are working and combining their resources just to get by.

Maybe these kids are listening to Rodney Dangerfield as he graduated college at 0:48





Good luck.

[les green01]

Originally Posted by Shady Bill

I searched for a parenting thread where I could place this. I couldn't find one. My apologies if I missed it.


My question is this;

My 20+ year old daughter, all my 20+ year old nieces and nephews (I am talking 22-23 year old "men")...they seem to think its okay to live at home
and not move out??

When I turned 18, many moons ago, first thing kids back then wanted to do is get together with some friends, rent a place. Be independent. Eat pizza 3x a week..

Kids nowadays seem to want to just live at home with mom and dad?? Is this because of covid school shutdowns? Do your kids show this behavior?

I have a 23 year old guy visiting my daughter every day...he greets me, and just marches up to her room. He still lives at home with his mom and dad He likes singing to the TV show "Glee" with her. And sometimes he wears pink pants. Not salmon. Pink. The kid works construction mind you...

My wife explains to me since she is an adult, I can't stop her from having a boyfriend.

I get this...but when do these kids move out already?? You can't really kick them out. But grown children nowadays don't seem to want to leave the nest??


Anyone else have this madness going on at their homes?

boot them out make them pay rent and bills once they are 18 your job is done comes to the bf get a 12 gauge when my daughter first started dating i told the boy i been country all my life and have castrated a lot of animals a human being aint nothing but an animal every time he seen me sharping my hunting knife he break the speed record for the dads with daughters younger than 18 get a casity belt and lose the key

[Eichhörnchen]

In the UK you're perfectly within your rights to show them the door at 18, but as Sky suggests - they often just can't afford to move out. People are finding it next to impossible to service a mortgage now (and this is about to get a whole lot worse) and rent prices are even crazier

But if they want to have adult relations then I'd say it's pretty disrespectful of him to routinely march upstairs - if that's what they're doing. Maybe they should get a room for that kind of thing?

My son is 21 and lives at home for the one good reason that he's autistic and couldn't cope on his own - he has to be watched out for all the time. That has nothing to do with this really but I wanted you to know that I am a parent of a 20-something so have a view

Hopefully things will improve economically for them if indeed it's the case that they can't afford to live together... but they must surely know they're only on borrowed time here? Wives always seem to want to hang onto the kids for as long as possible it seems, so yours is going to see this differently to you I'm afraid - it's her 'baby' - so she's going to need some persuasion!

[Jimbuna]

I consider myself very lucky, my lad commenced a seafaring career at age sixteen and within two years had purchased his own property.

My daughter went to university but upon graduating she married and purchased her own property.

Should either or both decide to return for any reason, the door will always be open and that is the reason the wife and I have not downsized property wise.

[Shady Bill]

Thank you all for your input. What worries me a bit is that there is very little middle ground. It seems either you give in, or you kick them out.

We charge rent, $200/month, which she pays dutifully. My wife will then turn around every month and pay my daughter's $50 phone bill. I remind her we already pay for her wireless internet, car insurance, etc. etc.

Her universal response is; "well that is what parents do, now isn't it?"

And it is rather hard to counter that one I will admit (and I say this at the cost of having my chess skills berated once more by Aktungbby vis-a-vis "lack of counter moves" )

I would now like to address this post individually:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Sky kinda hit the nail on the head. With current economics / Inflation, rents have gone through the roof. Kids today would eat all their meals out. Then they complain they have no money to pay bills.

(1) This is so very very true. I don't get it. Her and the boyfriend eat out constantly...not bad food either, nice stuff. I often look in the fridge and the restaurant leftover boxes alone offend me. They are black and fancy. Only places that use black colored, fancy scripted leftover boxes are expensive restaurants.

So if my wife and I consider going to "Culver's" (for my European friends, Culver's is "fancy" McDonald's) as our date night, but my 20 year old daughter and her boyfriend go to "Chez Jacques" or whatever every Friday, and drop $100...I am harboring these fugitives...what kind of clown show has this become?

Kids today have very little in the way of life skills.

(2) I agree, did our school system fail us? I 100% believe it is a parent's job to teach a child right from wrong. But basic life skills? While parents are busy working, and paying taxes to their town, can't we expect something in return for dropping her off at school every day for 8 years?

If I had a son, I would send him to the service for 4 years. I would even let him pick the branch. Where do you send a daughter? You have to be more delicate maybe?

The economy and inflation has everything screwed up and more and more families are working and combining their resources just to get by.

Kids nowadays seem to use the economy as an excuse. They all have high paying jobs, scream 'Inflation, inflation!" and then spend enormous amounts of money on luxury goods. My wife and I looked in her "tackle box" of make-up once. My wife said; "oh its not bad, probably $500-$600"..I almost jumped out of the 2nd story window. Glass and all.

Her 23 year old boyfriend, who lives at home, showed me his "new laptop". It was a $2800 computer. Literally, more expensive than all my electronics combined. Kids are insane and I think this generation of children might be gaslighting us a little bit.

Good luck.
Thank you

[Shady Bill]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I consider myself very lucky, my lad commenced a seafaring career at age sixteen and within two years had purchased his own property.
My daughter went to university but upon graduating she married and purchased her own property.


Should either or both decide to return for any reason, the door will always be open and that is the reason the wife and I have not downsized property wise.

You are indeed insanely lucky. But this might be due to the equal distribution of males and females in the household. As the lone wolf, I often get bullied by the females that gang up on me. I thought Mr. "pink pants" would even things out a bit. But he always sides with them.

[mapuc]

I can say this.

It doesn't surprise me that you want them to move out while your wife feel comfortable with the current situation.

Men are more eager to cut the (forgot the word)
And
Women are more eager to keep this (forgot the word)With their children.

Men(Husband) want their offspring to learn how to live on their own.
While Women(Wife) want to keep them safe as long as possible.

(This above is something I remember from a program about Human nature-Parenthood)

Markus

[Commander Wallace]

@ Shady Bill.

It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place. You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. I will assume you have spoken with your daughter and " Mr. Pink Pants " and it went no where. Probably you would have better luck talking to a house plant. I well and truly hope it gets better not only for you, but Platapus, Aktung and everyone else who is going through similar circumstances.

My own dad and various uncles were involved in the heavy construction trade. By default, I started working with them at 7-8 years old. I just did clean up then but also mixed mortar and carried bricks in brick tongs, if anyone knows what they are. Mixing mortar is a back breaking job and I do have back issues today, probably as a result of my work then. As I got older and more experienced, I did more. By today's standards, what I did then could and would be considered child abuse. We also operated car and body shops. I worked in all of them doing the dirtiest jobs no one there wanted to do.

Years later, I was at a social function with my family in attendance. My dad said to me while talking with others there, " you learned a lot working with me." In my usual flippant manner, I said, " you're right dad. I learned I never wanted anything to do with heavy construction." Everyone had a good laugh. My dad just looked at me and smiled. He said, " That's great. You have learned the the greatest lesson I was trying to teach you." He further explained that by seeing what hard work was and experiencing it first hand, I would " buckle down " in school and go to college and learn and not waste my time. Suddenly, " the light bulb came on brightly." My dad was right and I told him so. I admire both my parents more and more as time goes on.

My dad always told others that were young and upset with their living conditions at home. " If you are so smart, move out now and get a job while you still know everything. "

It's not easy being a parent. I'm sure you're doing the best you can do under the circumstances. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.....

@ Eichhörnchen.

Your situation and circumstances are completely different, with Lawrence. Considering the uphill battle you and Moira and indeed Lawrence himself has had, you and Moira have done a fantastic job. You and I have talked over the years on Lawrence and your situation.

What's even more amazing is that you and Moira raised Lawrence without the benefit of an " operating manual " to know the best way to do things with Lawrence. You and Moira had to learn everything about Autism " on the fly " While some parents are remiss in their responsibilities or are hamstrung or have their " hands tied behind their backs, " You and Moira did exceedingly well in teaching and raising Lawrence.


Well done.