No survivors - Page 2

Stargazer · 05-06-11, 06:03 AM

I'm still out on only my second patrol and tonight will be only the third time I've launched SH4...

However, I have seen an instance of a lifeboat being deployed and a few people in it trying to get away from a their burning wreck. It looked as though they caught by a large(ish) wave and then all of a sudden the boat was still there but the people were not.

It might have been a coincidence with the wave getting the lifeboat, they were still worryingly close to a burning ship at the time but something made them all vanish.

As I'm still out on patrol I've not had a chance to apply any mods at all so it was definitely there in some degree right from stock.

Platapus · 05-06-11, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

In any case, it makes no difference for game purposes, does it? I mean, in real life, there are situations where you would not want to let survivors. Say you've just dropped and agent or spy in enemy territory and all the sudden, a patrol boat spots you. You sink it but a survivor is left in a raft, just to tell on you (and your agent). Makes no sense to leave him as a witness!

The same thing applies when striking to close to the japanese homeland, I guess, since survivors are likely to be rescued quickly and inform of a predator roaming the seaside.

But that would be too god to be true, mmm? I bet the game does not compute this kind of variables.

You need to read Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

It deals with that question.

Daniel Prates · 05-06-11, 10:13 AM

Thanks platapus. I'll be sure to check it out. RIght now I'm discovering the wonders of TMO so i'll stick to that for a while.

About those empty rafts... maybe they're not empty, maybe they are UPSIDE DOWN! I notice that happening a lot when I insert an agent. I bring the sub to a full stop, get as close as possible to calm waters, but still, frequently the raft will appear as the little guy being UNDER the raft, roaming and everything.

From a distance it seems that it is empty, but from a closer distance, it is clearer what is going on.

Maybe it's a graphic bug in the game. So far I've seen no capsised ships whatsoever and there is no reason to beleive that game graphics compute capsising as an event possible to happen.

Dogfish40 · 05-06-11, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Thanks platapus. I'll be sure to check it out. RIght now I'm discovering the wonders of TMO so i'll stick to that for a while.

About those empty rafts... maybe they're not empty, maybe they are UPSIDE DOWN! I notice that happening a lot when I insert an agent. I bring the sub to a full stop, get as close as possible to calm waters, but still, frequently the raft will appear as the little guy being UNDER the raft, roaming and everything.

From a distance it seems that it is empty, but from a closer distance, it is clearer what is going on.

Maybe it's a graphic bug in the game. So far I've seen no capsised ships whatsoever and there is no reason to beleive that game graphics compute capsising as an event possible to happen.

No, I checked. By the way, I might need to mention if I haven't already that I used to have survivors just about all the time, even fast sinkers. And if there were none there was usually no life boats at all. That's why I'm so puzzled, because I miss seeing the people in the boats. I'll keep on this till I get it fixed 'cause I think it's one of those little details that add realism to the game.
Good weekend and Good Hunting All!
D40

Daniel Prates · 05-06-11, 12:16 PM

Ok, here's another possibily. It's another conclusion I extract from botched agent insertions.

What happens when you release an insertion raft before a full stop? The raft collides with your own submarine and gets destroyed, right? How it appears then? Like an empty raft! It does not sink or disappear. It is clear though that it has been destroyed, and I remember that in stock SH it even appears as a destroyed ship on the map.

Possibly the empty survirors raft appear like that - empty- because they, soon after being spawned by the ship's destruction, imediately collide agains the sinking carcass of their own ship and get destroyed in the process.

Aviv · 05-06-11, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Possibly the empty survirors raft appear like that - empty- because they, soon after being spawned by the ship's destruction, imediately collide agains the sinking carcass of their own ship and get destroyed in the process.

Wow. I never thought about that. I think this is the best theory about it. But what about when they appear (sometimes not near the ship) in stormy weather? Does stormy weather destroy agent insertions too?

Daniel Prates · 05-06-11, 05:31 PM

Who knows. Though close to perfect, the SH franchise is very buggy and some things are unexplainable, it seems.

Daniel Prates · 05-10-11, 01:58 PM

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

Aviv · 05-10-11, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

Wow. From some of the shot angles they seem like stock footage, and it seems edited strangely too. The only consistent one seems to be where the sailor fires the M1928 Thompson. Besides that, you can see to the right of the Japanese you can see a guy with a M1911. Maybe it's taken away from context, and the Japanese was trying to throw his grenade into the submarine. In that situation, you have to shoot the guy. You can't let him risk your whole crew just to say "we can't kill him he's just a shipwrecked guy". But also at those distance (seems like less than 50M) it would be easy to kill him. Very interesting video, though. I guess that happened a lot in the Pacific.

Dogfish40 · 05-11-11, 12:00 PM

Video is bogus. This is one more piece of U-tube garbage that was floating around to turn public opinion against the U.S military in general. It doesn't even look the same from cut to cut, the sun is all wrong, the film looks differant from cut to cut. There must be at least three differant days here. It's obviously edited (and badly) and usually banned from this site.
I'm sorry this had to appear on this thread...
D40

Stealhead · 05-11-11, 09:22 PM

It is bull---- someone just took some videos from some submariners pooping(er popping but that is so funny I will leave it) some rounds off for practice/fun and then took the clip of a Japanese pilot from a completely different clip to make it look like they shot him.The pilot who blows himself up with the hand grenade that was clearly filmed from a larger vessel than a sub.Someplace I have seen the true footage they where trying to save the guy and when they that he had the grenade they started to fire on him but there intent was to help the pilot he forced their hand.Someplace there is footage of the sub guys with the Tommy and BAR in the true footage they a killing only water.

The truth is that many subs (US Navy) actually would take POWs if they found Japanese willing to be picked(of course with great caution) you could gather a lot of good intel from these people.It was also common to find refugees on the water trying to get away form Japanese occupied areas he there is a picture out there of the Wahoo aiding one of these boats.The idea that US Navy subs went around killing Japanese in the water is simply not true for the most part.

Sorry it just really pisses me off this kind of thing granted in wars men on all sides do bad things but it is never our policy unlike the then Japanese military who killed and raped thousands of Chinese and brutally treated their POWs so and so forth.

I bought a book from a former US Army solider about his time in the Batan Death March and being a POW called "Hells Guest" that was selling his book at the USS Alabama park in Mobile a few years back While they where being marched along a Filipino woman who was pregnant came up to give an American water for this a Japanese solider killed the American and cut the woman stomach open and the baby inside they then told the little girl to walk away when she did they shot her in the back but everyone ignores the clearly documented horrors that the Japanese military did by and large as standard operating procedure.I am not saying that all WWII era Japanese people and even soldiers where bad but such things where not frowned upon in the slightest.

Japanese are officially taught a complete lie about WWII and learn nothing about what their government did to the Chinese,Koreans and other Asian people they also learn nothing about how they treated POWs they learn a lie in their favor that make the US look bad.I know this because one of my friends his wife is an Okinawan Japanese she is a truly a Ryukian but they go to Japanese schools and are Japaneses citizens they don't really trust mainland Japanese and that goes way back to ancient times.In the end the Japanese reaped what they had sown in the 20's,30's,and 40's at the end of the war.

Thrair · 05-12-11, 12:03 AM

No nation likes to admit they were absolute slime. So they sugar-coat history textbooks to the point of being useless bull****.

We do it, Germany does it, Japan does it, everyone does it. It's easier to hide from the past than face it.

However, most countries at least acknowledge that the events HAPPENED, even if they don't teach much about it to their kids.

Japan, however, has never admitted to the crimes, and repeatedly denies everything.

Stealhead · 05-12-11, 01:30 AM

Japan does it to the extreme in the US and Germany you can find more easily info on our not so pretty past like the Nazi Concentration camps and the US almost complete genocide of Native Americans back in the old day.

I saw some place that some Japanese do seek to make the truth more well known but they meet much resistance for example a group protested about a Shinto temple that had shrines honoring some pretty nasty officers from WWII they got threats for speaking out.

The "official" history being sugar coated is par for the course in most nations but at least in many nations you can easily find more accurate accounts. I think the US gets a bad rap for using the atomic bombs honestly when the simple fact is that during the war any nation would have used the weapon if they developed it first and the Japanese did have a program studying making bombs as well.And though very ----ty for the people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki(though a July fire bombing of Tokyo killed at least 120,000 Japanese and rendered many more homeless in one night of B-29 raids which is not too far behind both A-bombs death tolls combined such things did not happen to the US simply because we where not within range of attack not because the enemy lacked the desire to do so) at the time those bombs ended the war when the other option would have been invasion which would have cost millions of lives for Japan the US(the Us expected to suffer 1 million dead just for Cornet which was the invasion of Kyushu one can only guess the loses for Japan which would have included many indoctrinated) and likely the USSR as well not to mention extending the war into 1946/47 and likely giving the Soviets half of Japan and making the West weaker against the USSR post war.Not to get too off topic with that can of worms but if anyone else is game I'm cool.

By the way when I was about 12 years old my mother made me read "Hiroshima" by John Hersey and it certainly had an effect on me to say the least.

Aviv · 05-12-11, 03:37 AM

Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people.

As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either.

I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism.
Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.

Torplexed · 05-12-11, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video...

... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)?

Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

I'd take any youtube clip promoting shocking unseen historical footage with a dose of salt. That's not to say there aren't legitimate historical youtube clips, but there are a lot of nutters out there with a personal agenda on all points of the political map.

I believe Mush Morton was involved in one very serious incident of gunning down shipwrecked men in small boats, believing them Japanese troops bound for New Guinea. In sad fact, they were mainly Indian POWs of 2nd Battalion, 16th Punjab Regiment, plus escorting forces from the 26th Field Ordnance Depot. I don't think anyone filmed it though.

05-11-11, 12:00 PM	#25
Dogfish40 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: LA Area, Central coast, California Posts: 1,023 Downloads: 827 Uploads: 0	Video is bogus. This is one more piece of U-tube garbage that was floating around to turn public opinion against the U.S military in general. It doesn't even look the same from cut to cut, the sun is all wrong, the film looks differant from cut to cut. There must be at least three differant days here. It's obviously edited (and badly) and usually banned from this site. I'm sorry this had to appear on this thread... D40 __________________ *Dogfish40*

05-11-11, 09:22 PM	#26
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	It is bull---- someone just took some videos from some submariners pooping(er popping but that is so funny I will leave it) some rounds off for practice/fun and then took the clip of a Japanese pilot from a completely different clip to make it look like they shot him.The pilot who blows himself up with the hand grenade that was clearly filmed from a larger vessel than a sub.Someplace I have seen the true footage they where trying to save the guy and when they that he had the grenade they started to fire on him but there intent was to help the pilot he forced their hand.Someplace there is footage of the sub guys with the Tommy and BAR in the true footage they a killing only water. The truth is that many subs (US Navy) actually would take POWs if they found Japanese willing to be picked(of course with great caution) you could gather a lot of good intel from these people.It was also common to find refugees on the water trying to get away form Japanese occupied areas he there is a picture out there of the Wahoo aiding one of these boats.The idea that US Navy subs went around killing Japanese in the water is simply not true for the most part. Sorry it just really pisses me off this kind of thing granted in wars men on all sides do bad things but it is never our policy unlike the then Japanese military who killed and raped thousands of Chinese and brutally treated their POWs so and so forth. I bought a book from a former US Army solider about his time in the Batan Death March and being a POW called "Hells Guest" that was selling his book at the USS Alabama park in Mobile a few years back While they where being marched along a Filipino woman who was pregnant came up to give an American water for this a Japanese solider killed the American and cut the woman stomach open and the baby inside they then told the little girl to walk away when she did they shot her in the back but everyone ignores the clearly documented horrors that the Japanese military did by and large as standard operating procedure.I am not saying that all WWII era Japanese people and even soldiers where bad but such things where not frowned upon in the slightest. Japanese are officially taught a complete lie about WWII and learn nothing about what their government did to the Chinese,Koreans and other Asian people they also learn nothing about how they treated POWs they learn a lie in their favor that make the US look bad.I know this because one of my friends his wife is an Okinawan Japanese she is a truly a Ryukian but they go to Japanese schools and are Japaneses citizens they don't really trust mainland Japanese and that goes way back to ancient times.In the end the Japanese reaped what they had sown in the 20's,30's,and 40's at the end of the war. Last edited by Stealhead; 05-11-11 at 10:41 PM.

05-12-11, 01:30 AM	#28
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Japan does it to the extreme in the US and Germany you can find more easily info on our not so pretty past like the Nazi Concentration camps and the US almost complete genocide of Native Americans back in the old day. I saw some place that some Japanese do seek to make the truth more well known but they meet much resistance for example a group protested about a Shinto temple that had shrines honoring some pretty nasty officers from WWII they got threats for speaking out. The "official" history being sugar coated is par for the course in most nations but at least in many nations you can easily find more accurate accounts. I think the US gets a bad rap for using the atomic bombs honestly when the simple fact is that during the war any nation would have used the weapon if they developed it first and the Japanese did have a program studying making bombs as well.And though very ----ty for the people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki(though a July fire bombing of Tokyo killed at least 120,000 Japanese and rendered many more homeless in one night of B-29 raids which is not too far behind both A-bombs death tolls combined such things did not happen to the US simply because we where not within range of attack not because the enemy lacked the desire to do so) at the time those bombs ended the war when the other option would have been invasion which would have cost millions of lives for Japan the US(the Us expected to suffer 1 million dead just for Cornet which was the invasion of Kyushu one can only guess the loses for Japan which would have included many indoctrinated) and likely the USSR as well not to mention extending the war into 1946/47 and likely giving the Soviets half of Japan and making the West weaker against the USSR post war.Not to get too off topic with that can of worms but if anyone else is game I'm cool. By the way when I was about 12 years old my mother made me read "Hiroshima" by John Hersey and it certainly had an effect on me to say the least. Last edited by Stealhead; 05-12-11 at 01:46 AM.

05-06-11, 06:03 AM	#16
Stargazer A-ganger Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 76 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I'm still out on only my second patrol and tonight will be only the third time I've launched SH4... However, I have seen an instance of a lifeboat being deployed and a few people in it trying to get away from a their burning wreck. It looked as though they caught by a large(ish) wave and then all of a sudden the boat was still there but the people were not. It might have been a coincidence with the wave getting the lifeboat, they were still worryingly close to a burning ship at the time but something made them all vanish. As I'm still out on patrol I've not had a chance to apply any mods at all so it was definitely there in some degree right from stock.

05-06-11, 10:13 AM	#18
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Thanks platapus. I'll be sure to check it out. RIght now I'm discovering the wonders of TMO so i'll stick to that for a while. About those empty rafts... maybe they're not empty, maybe they are UPSIDE DOWN! I notice that happening a lot when I insert an agent. I bring the sub to a full stop, get as close as possible to calm waters, but still, frequently the raft will appear as the little guy being UNDER the raft, roaming and everything. From a distance it seems that it is empty, but from a closer distance, it is clearer what is going on. Maybe it's a graphic bug in the game. So far I've seen no capsised ships whatsoever and there is no reason to beleive that game graphics compute capsising as an event possible to happen.

05-06-11, 12:16 PM	#20
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Ok, here's another possibily. It's another conclusion I extract from botched agent insertions. What happens when you release an insertion raft before a full stop? The raft collides with your own submarine and gets destroyed, right? How it appears then? Like an empty raft! It does not sink or disappear. It is clear though that it has been destroyed, and I remember that in stock SH it even appears as a destroyed ship on the map. Possibly the empty survirors raft appear like that - empty- because they, soon after being spawned by the ship's destruction, imediately collide agains the sinking carcass of their own ship and get destroyed in the process.

05-06-11, 05:31 PM	#22
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Who knows. Though close to perfect, the SH franchise is very buggy and some things are unexplainable, it seems.

05-10-11, 01:58 PM	#23
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Resurecting old thread here, since this discussion could be interesting, and it is in-topic: do you guys know this video... ... which appears to show american sub crewmen shooting at a japanese drifter (which seems to kill himself with a grenade)? Is it bogus? the video is all edited-out, it's hard to beleive videos like these.

05-12-11, 12:03 AM	#27
Thrair Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 102 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	No nation likes to admit they were absolute slime. So they sugar-coat history textbooks to the point of being useless bull****. We do it, Germany does it, Japan does it, everyone does it. It's easier to hide from the past than face it. However, most countries at least acknowledge that the events HAPPENED, even if they don't teach much about it to their kids. Japan, however, has never admitted to the crimes, and repeatedly denies everything.

05-12-11, 03:37 AM	#29
Aviv Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Israel Posts: 132 Downloads: 237 Uploads: 0	Very few Japanese war criminals went to jail or were executed. Neither were many Americans, either. What I find difficult to accept is how easily people remember war crimes that the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese etc (and for me, Israelis too) have done, yet easily forget things like the killing of surrendered soldiers and the bombing of Dresden in WWII, My Lai massacre and chemical warfare in Vietnam. Of course it happens today as well, and nobody remembers where 47 civilians at a wedding party were killed by US forces in Mukaradeeb, Iraq. In fact civilian casualties are hardly reported at all. It's all to do with how the medias choose to show things to people. As an example in my country; when a Palestinian/s is killed, it makes world news for days. When an Israeli family of 5 is killed in their sleep, it doesn't even make national news in a lot of countries. That rockets fall on southern Israeli towns each day is not reported either. I would like to see more effort towards more balanced journalism. Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-US, I just think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented in the medias. I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just something I feel strongly about.