The incomplete stock UI

[skwasjer]

Just use CTRL like devs have to popup an alternative HUD. Use linear dials in normal mode, and press CTRL to open circular dials... In most situations, the linear dial/compas is good enough (wanting to see the current heading), for a course change, just pop out the circular dial and voila. Both camps happy!

PS: I might suggest, adding to the linear compass a needle overlay representing the rudder position...

If you want, I can help you with scripting new stuff.

[reaper7]

Just spottted these in the dials cfg. Anyont know if this is tied to the stadimeter range pulldown for setting range.
If so Could be the Log values (7.189;4.656) are the stadimeter setting for 1x and 4x zoom.
Then changing these may me helpful in getting the correct range values from the stadimeter.

[Dial58]
; will be changed by code
Name=TorpedoSolution_Mast_Height
Type=70; DIAL_TGT_MAST_HEIGHT_INTERNATIONAL
Cmd=Set_tgt_mast_height_international;
Dial=0x431A0002
CrtVal=0x431A0001
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-90,98
RealVal=15,130; height
Circular=Yes
CmdOnDrag=Yes
Logarithmic=7.189;4.656
;RelativeDrag=Yes
;SndStep=5
;SndList=1,Menu.TDC.AngleOnBow,360
;RelativeDrag=Yes

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by skwasjer

Just use CTRL like devs have to popup an alternative HUD. Use linear dials in normal mode, and press CTRL to open circular dials... In most situations, the linear dial/compas is good enough (wanting to see the current heading), for a course change, just pop out the circular dial and voila. Both camps happy!

PS: I might suggest, adding to the linear compass a needle overlay representing the rudder position...

If you want, I can help you with scripting new stuff.

I've been pondering that very same idea. Having the linear tapes for normal HUD mode and when you press CTRL then they turn into dials for advanced HUD mode.

As far as the scripting goes I'll keep that in mind. I'm a C#, C++, C, and Assembly programmer with some experiece in Python and other scripting languages. I have been doing pretty well with the Iron Python so far. One thing I have noticed is that one can import the CLR and gain even more functionality (and possibilities!)

I've been pondering another idea also. The idea of letting the user input the speed, heading, depth, etc. that they want. It could be via an inputbox or putting some + and - buttons next to the digital readouts and a button that is an accept button thus making the new course, depth, speed, etc. what the user input.

[kylania]

Edit:

I've been pondering that very same idea. Having the linear tapes for normal HUD mode and when you press CTRL then they turn into dials for advanced HUD mode.

Teach me to take 40 minutes to type a post! Sounds like a good idea, but how would the transformation look? End Edit.

Working on a rudder display that functions and looks like the speed/depth advanced HUD ones. When it's functional I'll need to call upon those more graphically inclined than I to make a new 'tape' for it. What rudder deflections are we going to use? 35-0-35 or 40-0-40 or ???

I think I might be misunderstanding this, but if the rudder "tape" doesn't work like the rudder "dial" and allow you to simply click to get anything from 0 to 35/40 it won't really replace the 3 Dials mod. Or was the idea to just come up with the maximum value on the ribbon and be able to click anywhere on it?

There's also the visual feed back concern. Compare the two images here, ignoring numbers and everything and just looking at the relation to center of the orange line. The dial at least to me indicates more clearly that I'm turning 45ish degrees rather than the indicator line half way to right in the ribbon display.




Also, as clean as the new SH5 UI is, having to hold Ctrl then click on a very small tape are that doesn't even show everything at once is not as easy as hover and click on a full display dial. Ctrl and +5 button then click on small green ribbon around 120 is far more difficult than click below dial, click 120 for setting depth for example.


Totally separate other idea:
Would it be able to bring back the "6 buttons" that was left out of the SH5 interface (to the right of the speed ribbon) and make those user configurable? So like you could have Weather, Range At Speed, Depth to Keel, Return to Course, Periscope, Surface buttons (or whatever you wanted) available as single click options rather than a two stage process?

[DragonRR1]

It might be one of those things you just have to see but the idea of pop-up dials from a tape doesn't sound like it would look very elegant. I also agree with the previous post in that visual feedback is going to be pretty poor when the dial pops away.

I don't want to sound too negative but I still feel that going back to dials and a total reskin is the answer. It's your mod darkwraith and I greatly respect the work you've already done so ignore me if you wish!

Edit: I'd wondered about an input box myself but it sounds a wee bit fiddly.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by DragonRR1

It might be one of those things you just have to see but the idea of pop-up dials from a tape doesn't sound like it would look very elegant. I also agree with the previous post in that visual feedback is going to be pretty poor when the dial pops away.

I don't want to sound too negative but I still feel that going back to dials and a total reskin is the answer. It's your mod darkwraith and I greatly respect the work you've already done so ignore me if you wish!

Edit: I'd wondered about an input box myself but it sounds a wee bit fiddly.

well the current heading indicator will be just that - a heading indicator. You won't assign headings from it. It will just tell you your current heading.
This debacle is a good one. Maybe this is why the devs left it 'as is'.
I think what I'll do is add an interface to the right of the heading bar that the user will use + and - arrows to set the desired heading. This way you can command a specific heading and you'll have the visual feedback of what heading you picked.
The rudder will be a tape like the speed/depth Advanced modes showing 40 to 0 to 40 degrees deflection.

[DragonRR1]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

well the current heading indicator will be just that - a heading indicator. You won't assign headings from it. It will just tell you your current heading.
This debacle is a good one. Maybe this is why the devs left it 'as is'.
I think what I'll do is add an interface to the right of the heading bar that the user will use + and - arrows to set the desired heading. This way you can command a specific heading and you'll have the visual feedback of what heading you picked.
The rudder will be a tape like the speed/depth Advanced modes showing 40 to 0 to 40 degrees deflection.

Without trying to be awkward, just imo.... The problem with that idea is that it still looses some functionality. With a dial you can click any direction immediately and obviously be able to see where you've clicked and how long visually it will take to make the turn to at least some degree. In some situations you click a direction and then change your mind. Dial again works, data inputting and/or +/- buttons would be much slower.

I've been looking for some alternative for a digital/horizontal "dials" but even high spec car dasboards use lcd round dials.

[kylania]

The main thing you'd be missing out of with a digital heading is the 'nested compass' rose we have from SH3.

It's constantly valuable for me to be able to set a heading based on cardinal directions or related to a bearing from my sub as we can currently with the outside NSWE compass and the inside sub bearing compass. Or even being able to see at a glance that behind my left shoulder is West or something. Losing that functionality to conform to the new digital ribbon UI style would be a shame.

[cothyso]

adding a clock to the interface might be a very useful thing. like skwasjer's one..

I myself think that the minimalist interface is the way to go, as it adds more immersion to the game (same as with thief 3 for example).

dark, do you have any ETA for this? can you (lease please please), release at least an intermediate beta version of it? it will still be much better than current ones

[TheDarkWraith]

well i've been working hard, very hard. I had to add LOTS of scripting to get all my UIs merged into one, fix problems found in stock game, add new features/functions, etc. It's almost complete. To give you an idea of how much scripting is added, the stock Page layout.py file is 1.39kb. It's now at 60.9kb!
My solution to the heading/rudder thing I think can best be seen by some screenshots:

here's the screenshot when you first enter into the game (I expanded the TAI map on my own cause it starts out minimized. I stopped the periscope from rising automatically when you start the game also! I clicked on the Radio officer icon and then clicked on gramophone and the following orders are available):


now if you click the heading bar just to the right of the stock UI speed bar you get this:


if you click the little button below the compass you get this:


click on the heading bar again and the compass/rudder goes away! The emergency surface icon added to the depth bar on the far left works also (right below the crash dive icon).

All the officers orders are scripted such that they have to meet conditions before they are enabled. Some require you to be underwater, some require you to be on the surface, some require you to have a contact locked, etc. In the screenshot above all the orders are available because the conditions are met. If some of the orders conditions were not met then it would not appear in the bar (it would have a blank space). An example of an order that would get a blank space: you're on the surface and you click on the CE. The orders that would normally pop up are Propulsion, Emergency maneuvers, and Reports. But since you're on the surface emergency maneuvers are not allowed (all emergency maneuvers require you to be underwater - game problem because it causes the sub to dive and you, the captain, can remain on the bridge - BUG!). I had to script the commands because of bugs with the game in order for them to work correctly. I'm sure that when I release this here soon you all WILL enjoy it. And yes, the gramophone works along with many other things.
One peculiar thing I haven't been able to get to work is Battlestations. I added an icon in the Watch officer's orders that is for battlestations. When you click on it the command is recognized by the game but nothing happens.....it is a delayed event so I don't know what causes the 'event' to fire. You all will have to tell me what triggers it when I release this.
I've combined all my UI mods into one. You determine what UI you want to use and what settings by modifying one file. Couldn't be any easier huh?

Now I'm just polishing up the loose ends. But there are a LOT of them. There's more features and all to add to this mod but I'll finish up this version so you all can get the basic functionality back into the game.

I don't know what to say!
Genius is all I can think of!

[piri_reis]

DW, we're so lucky to have you here.
This mod and the evolution of it is some lesson in modding, project management, development, documentation and everything

Realy nice TDW, a little prayer....

Could you implement Skwasjers new digital clock ?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165545

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Mav87th

Realy nice TDW, a little prayer....

Could you implement Skwasjers new digital clock ?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165545

I sent him a PM about it. If he doesn't respond it was a feature I was going to add but it sat really low in the priority list. The priorities were getting basic functionality and commands back and then polish it up. So if he doesn't respond by the time I get to that item I'll add my own version.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Yeah, ditto, awesome work DW et al