What does elenaiba say...

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Gunnodayak, could you take it easy? Go back and read your posts, you sound like a very angry person. There's no need for calling people out, being so confrontational. This is a forum for discussion of sub games like SH5 ...with friends. Maybe you have some real reasons to burst out with so much anger and hostility, but let me ask, take it easy.

OK, Neal, I will try that, to take the things in an easier way, it's a reasonable request from your side. Now, that elanaiba admitted in some degree that his product is ... I won't say "how", my frustration regarding throwing away some money for SH5 and for the unfulfilled expectancies that I had is starting to fade. I feel easier already, now, that I've made my point. And you know a lot of people feel close to a similar way, it's just my way of saying things that makes a discordant image from the "established order". I don't like to be insulted.
And maybe if you wouldn't banned me back then because of him, elanaiba would had some of my respect. But this doesn't matter anyway now.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by urfisch

...to all this critiscm? I recently bought it due to modding wants. Havent played it yet, but i read all this negative vibes from objective members here...who havent complained about the game before and are now deeply upset with it.

I thought about, what do you think on all this? As a man.

The man weathered SH4 and to be honest, from the looks of it, SH4 had more bugs than the rainforest. SH5 not so much. How did Dan responded to SH4 with some patches? Then he went on and worked on SH5 as the next response! To be sure, SH4 is a wonderful game today with mods. Just like SH3 was a wonderful game with mods. SH5 will be a wonderful game with mods. Even if SH5 were dead nuts right on accurate to every detail someone would have a gripe and want to mod things. It is only human nature for some who are very creative and the creative outlet the folks is modding. We have seen this enough to know how it goes. Do we all like it? Not really. But we work with it, become friends via the forums and learn a thing or two about history! Dan is just one part of a the machine that makes these games. Is someone creative completely satisified with their work 100%. None that I ever found. In fact, I find the people who create such things as this are their most critical customer.

[Tomi_099]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The man weathered SH4 and to be honest, from the looks of it, SH4 had more bugs than the rainforest. SH5 not so much. How did Dan responded to SH4 with some patches? Then he went on and worked on SH5 as the next response! To be sure, SH4 is a wonderful game today with mods. Just like SH3 was a wonderful game with mods. SH5 will be a wonderful game with mods. Even if SH5 were dead nuts right on accurate to every detail someone would have a gripe and want to mod things. It is only human nature for some who are very creative and the creative outlet the folks is modding. We have seen this enough to know how it goes. Do we all like it? Not really. But we work with it, become friends via the forums and learn a thing or two about history! Dan is just one part of a the machine that makes these games. Is someone creative completely satisified with their work 100%. None that I ever found. In fact, I find the people who create such things as this are their most critical customer.

-------------------

@elanaiba
You Must not forget that we live here in the forum things are much more critical than
All out there. I say critical but not negative.
We will of course always the best because sometimes we count the screws on the submarine.
But who do we get 75% we are at peace

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

OK, Neal, I will try that, to take the things in an easier way, it's a reasonable request from your side. Now, that elanaiba admitted in some degree that his product is ... I won't say "how", my frustration regarding throwing away some money for SH5 and for the unfulfilled expectancies that I had is starting to fade. I feel easier already, now, that I've made my point. And you know a lot of people feel close to a similar way, it's just my way of saying things that makes a discordant image from the "established order". I don't like to be insulted.
And maybe if you wouldn't banned me back then because of him, elanaiba would had some of my respect. But this doesn't matter anyway now.

No one likes to be insulted. I don't understand why you are so angry. I did not "ban" you because of elanaiba, I did it because you were launching a personal attack against another forum member. And if I was wrong, I apologize, but in my honest judgment, sincere as I can be, you were out of line, man. I've spent time with elanaiba in the US and Denmark at meetings and various events, he is a respectful, honest guy. Why attack someone like that?

But that's in the past, what worries me now is what is driving you to spend so much energy being negative, seeking attention? If you and I and the other members were in a room, would you be this way? Man, let it go.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

No one likes to be insulted. I don't understand why you are so angry. I did not "ban" you because of elanaiba, I did it because you were launching a personal attack against another forum member. And if I was wrong, I apologize, but in my honest judgment, sincere as I can be, you were out of line, man. I've spent time with elanaiba in the US and Denmark at meetings and various events, he is a respectful, honest guy. Why attack someone like that?

But that's in the past, what worries me now is what is driving you to spend so much energy being negative, seeking attention? If you and I and the other members were in a room, would you be this way? Man, let it go.

OK, I apologize as well if sometimes I am overreacting. But please let me have my personal opinion about Dan, and not only as a game developer. I have my reasons for that. Anyway, I will probably post myself a presentation in that SH5 players forum, although I don't consider myself a SH5. Yet. Maybe I will be one in 6 months or a year.
Dan doesn't know how to speak with people, he have communication problems, you do know how to, that's why I am apologizing now if sometimes I overreact. The only problem is to know how to speak with me, the manner in which you are doing that can make the difference.

[Yskonyn]

Gunno I can't help but point out one little detail I keep noticing in your replies. You use the word 'me' a lot. People should know how to treat you in a respectable manner and should know how your situation is.
Communication is a two-way endeavor, you know. It's not all about you, it's about mutual respect and listening to eachother's point of view.
You often turn statements around again into the negative to fuel another rant. Take a few minutes and consider your replies, buddy.

[Onkel Neal]

I appreciate that, Gunnodayak. Here's the thing about how we interact with each other. Sometimes things come out wrong, sometimes we are in a bad mood, sometimes we have hellish real life/work/wife/gf/money pressures that affect how we interact with each other, against our will and better judgment. Sometimes I make a mistake and take the wrong approach to how I interact with another guy on the forum. Maybe I let me impatience slip, and I get snotty, even though it is against the rules I made (slaps self!). Then I will back up, and I feel that is important, to know when to admit I am wrong, it makes me stronger, not weaker.

I try really hard not to hold grudges. And I am so grateful that people here allow me a few mistakes (ok, a lot) and don't hold grudges against me. What occurs between you and Dan is your business. All I am saying is, if there was some friction between you, keep that off the forums. I wouldn't want Dan posting every few days about you, either.

I've exchanged emails with you, you strike me as a good guy. Give it some thought.

[skwasjer]

Ok to some this may be arselicking, but I don't care. Others know I am honest.

Dan, I like to congratulate you and the rest of the team on a job well done. I don't even have the game yet, but from what I've seen and the brief conversations a few months ago, I can conclude this is the best SH-game to date. Could it have been better? Sure. Could it have been worse? Definately!

You know I'm not too fond of the DRM system, and well heh, who is, but other than that SH5 will become a good game. Needs some extra care the coming year from Ubi and modders and all will be well.

Carry on!

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

Dan doesn't know how to speak with people, he have communication problems

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

Yes, Gunnodayak, it took me time to write this long answer, and I waited for the lunchbreak in order not to disturb my current work assignments.

Thank you for your input, Dan. I have to say that I am one of the disappointed ones - but I still hold out hope that you can get some of the features and broken parts of the game into working order. I sincerely hope you're taking some of the legit criticism and addressing it within the time and resource constraints you're given. This game can be very very good, given some time and attention. It's just at this point, with the problems it currently has, I can't glean much entertainment from it. But again, I'm still keeping the faith that you can get it whipped into shape.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I appreciate that, Gunnodayak. Here's the thing about how we interact with each other. Sometimes things come out wrong, sometimes we are in a bad mood, sometimes we have hellish real life/work/wife/gf/money pressures that affect how we interact with each other, against our will and better judgment. Sometimes I make a mistake and take the wrong approach to how I interact with another guy on the forum. Maybe I let me impatience slip, and I get snotty, even though it is against the rules I made (slaps self!). Then I will back up, and I feel that is important, to know when to admit I am wrong, it makes me stronger, not weaker.

I try really hard not to hold grudges. And I am so grateful that people here allow me a few mistakes (ok, a lot) and don't hold grudges against me. What occurs between you and Dan is your business. All I am saying is, if there was some friction between you, keep that off the forums. I wouldn't want Dan posting every few days about you, either.

I've exchanged emails with you, you strike me as a good guy. Give it some thought.

OK, you are right in most of the matters above. I will try not to make direct references to Dan if that will help to the peace of the forum.
And by the way, maybe WE should go back to the topic, aren't we? (not only "me" ...)

[urfisch]

i hoped this kind of discussion would not take place in a thread, that was intended to help the community, with a statement of one of the devs.

he answered honestly and you guys have nothing else to do, than beating each other. instead of beeing grateful. think about it...this is not the kind of behavior, we need in such a thread.

[Hitman]

Dan, I like to congratulate you and the rest of the team on a job well done. I don't even have the game yet, but from what I've seen and the brief conversations a few months ago, I can conclude this is the best SH-game to date. Could it have been better? Sure. Could it have been worse? Definately!

You know I'm not too fond of the DRM system, and well heh, who is, but other than that SH5 will become a good game. Needs some extra care the coming year from Ubi and modders and all will be well.

Carry on!

Yeah, call me asslicker if you want, but I concur with Skwasjer and despite not buying SH5 because of the draconian DRM, I must say I'm impressed by it, and am 100% sure that few if any at all, could have done what Dan and his team have in such a short time. Give them the time and resources Oleg Maddox has for BOB-SOW and I bet even rivet counters would be amazed.

Go Dan, go You made the best out of what was at your disposal

Originally Posted by urfisch

i hoped this kind of discussion would not take place in a thread, that was intended to help the community, with a statement of one of the devs.

he answered honestly and you guys have nothing else to do, than beating each other. instead of beeing grateful. think about it...this is not the kind of behavior, we need in such a thread.

Yes, you are right, but probably if you wouldn't had my intervention, he would probably gave us a cosmetic presentation of the reality. "Love" me or "leave" me, but you sometimes need some people like me here. To "squeeze out" what the people actually have in their minds, not just boring, empty and meaningless official statements.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

There is no need to apologize. We all know how much time, hard work goes into these things as well as the constraints and restictions inherent in designing software.

I wanted to emphasize the positive and point out the major improvement in SH5:

1. a fully realized photo-realistic 3d interior of a type VII U-boat:






I don't think people realize how much research, time and effort went into this and how big an impact it will have on the game atmosphere;




2. substantial improvements to the periscope/UZO/attack map/TDC which makes it much more user friendly, flexible and realistic:






3. perhaps most important, a very much more mod friendly game structure;


most of the bugs, problems, issues raised by users are fairly minor and I have no doubt will be eventually addressed by your team or modders.

Again very hearty congratulations to you and your team for all the blood, sweat, tears and love you have put into this game.The future looks very bright for SH5.

John.

[COWBOY10]

I too would like to add my thanks to elanaiba for a honest answer. We all know it must be very hard and frustracting to work on a project like this and then listen to us all moan about it when it comes out. However we only moan because we too are passionant about subsims, Hell thats why we are here right, I would be more worried if people ignored it.

Yes I admit as already stated in another post, I was very very excited, but am now frustracted with SHV as it stands. However I think from what I have read MOST of us including myself, CAN see the protential and what we could end up with.

Its a good thing though, that even you have admitted you arent happy with the current SHV. I hope that means, that you and the other devs will still be working on this and steering it towards the SHV you guys want to see and providing us with some patches. As ive already stated, WE ( Well some off us but certanly not Firewall, as I cant speak for him ) do not want to see this sim fail, and Yes as simmers we are very demanding, or so my wife tells me
remember dont get too down, We only moan cause we care.



Hugh respect for having the balls to come on here and tell us how it is.