Meet the crew.

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by Letum

I am surprised the navigator can't improve the weather.

Good grief, don't give them ideas, haha.

[Mikhayl]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

And all this passive/active stuff. Do we have to roleplay that out as well? How is that gonna work out on your ninth patrol when Benno bursts into tears because a British DD is sighted coming straight at you with a bone in its teeth?

If it's like SH4, then the "passive" abilities are actually active 100% of the time as long as you have the guy on board. "Active" abilities are activated at your command and only last a short while then you have to wait until they "reload".

I agree that the RPG aspect is an interesting direction but the it could have done without the cheesiness.

[Panser]

Ludicrous "bios" aside, the first thing I noticed about the crew is that they all look far too old. Sure they might squeeze by in 1939, but by the time you get to 1942 they're all at least a decade too old to be likely!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

"Great Circle Navigation - An experienced navigator knows how to find the shortest way between two points, especially if you trust him."

It's very simple. First he draws the Great Circle, then within it the Mystic Square, and then he summons the Four Dread Spirits of the Four Corners of the Earth. Then when he's successfully absorbed the knowledge and power of all four, he chants an ancient spell while laying out his Runestones in a precise pattern only he can determine using the vision of his awakened Third Eye, and continues chanting until all the required forces are aligned.

After that it's just a matter of asking the spirits to teleport you wherever you want to go and *poof* Bob's yer uncle.

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

It's very simple. First he draws the Great Circle, then within it the Mystic Square, and then he summons the Four Dread Spirits of the Four Corners of the Earth. Then when he's successfully absorbed the knowledge and power of all four, he chants an ancient spell while laying out his Runestones in a precise pattern only he can determine using the vision of his awakened Third Eye, and continues chanting until all the required forces are aligned.

After that it's just a matter of asking the spirits to teleport you wherever you want to go and *poof* Bob's yer uncle.

Well, now that it's explained to me it all seems so logical....

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yep, just like the 'Special Abilities' in SH4, or the 'Engine Upgrades' in SH3.

If moddable (and im sure they will be), you can always rewrite them. With special abilities you have two choices.

a.) Disable them

b.) Rewrite them to represent an experienced crew.

In TMO for SH4, i rewrote many of these abiliites, and outright removed a few of the super gamey ones from play to represent changes brought on by an experienced crew.

The trick is "nerfing" the player sub in such a way so that by default it performs as a green crew would have performed. And then rewrite the abilities to reflect changes that a veteran crew could do. Diving abilities is one of them. In TMO by default, a fleet boat crash dives in 60 seconds or so. The minimum required in order for a boat to be considered fit for duty. With the right crew, you can increase that dive time to 35 seconds, which is what a vet crew could manage. So your crew members become valuable in a semi realistic way.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

Well, now that it's explained to me it all seems so logical....

MMM hmm and this, you see, is why trusting him is so important. If you don't believe in him 100%, believe believe BELIEVE, he simply can't work his magic.

It also helps if you can get the crew to proclaim their belief as well, altho I think just clapping hands might be good enough.

[piri_reis]

Under Chief's Page:
He is also is the man who must set the explosives to scuttle the boat and prevent capture by the enemy.

Surrender option? Should be most definitely end of career..

[BulSoldier]

Or may be this is just a fill up and he doest that when capaign ends and story is over...
Oh hell i should stop visit this forum it makes me sad.

[Iron Budokan]

The cheesiness factor has been brought up. I just want to say that in my opinion as a professional writer it's because this stuff was phoned in by whoever wrote/developed the iconic characters.

On the face of it there's nothing wrong with a crew member who bursts into tears when the going gets tough. Except we're not really given any back story to make that believable. Maybe he's struggling with the memory of a loved one who was killed and wants to avenge that. Maybe he believes if he kills the British the conflict in his own soul will be asssuaged.

A crewman who writes poetry because he's sensitive? Again, no problem. But play that off a cold and desperate desire to kill as many of the enemy as he can. The forces inside him are an echo of the greater war going on in the world.

In other words, give this RPG something other than stereotype and one-dimensional cheesiness. The cook can't cook and he can't play the violin. You can make that character come alive in five minutes if you really try. Okay, I admit you can go too far and then you delve into soap opera. You don't want that, either. But let's face it, this stopped being a sim a long time ago during the development stage so we might as well talk about how you can make the RPG stuff more palatable.

Make the crew members HUMAN.

But do you see what I'm saying here? It's all one-dimensional and hokey. Making torpedos do more damage. That's gamey. That's not a simulation. By no stretch of the imagination can you call that a simulation. That's a cartoon.

It's not even remotely believable, other than from a comic book standpoint. If you want to put RPG elements into a subsim, fine, go right ahead. When all is said and done I actually think this is a good idea amidst so many other bad ideas (DRM, etc). But, good grief, put some effort into it, will you, UBI?

Cheesy. No other word for it. Pure, unadulterated cheese.

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by Brag

I could possibly put up with the deficiencies and lack of knowledge of the writer as probably the limitations of the game would probably not reveal these in gameplay.

But OSP kills the game--TOTALLY!

I am the exact opposite. I can live with OSP/DRM in a good sim. These latest "features" kill it for me.

[urfisch]

the more i see, the more i hope for the mod-tools. its said, we also may modify the crew easily.

lets see...

[Nickolas]

is it just me or there are certain elements from the crew taken DIRECTLY from das boot? If we listen to "the tipperary song" with the XO get mad? will it hurt is ideology? will the IIWO drink the "special uboat cocktail"?

and what's with the gunners uniform?

also, when i read the title of the thread something like this came into mind:

Assuming the DRM/OSP/KACK is removed....cough... i'm interested in the extra parameters the game provides. If the devs HAVE made it very open to modding then these special abilities could prove to be quite interesting in the long run.

I also like the way they are bringing the events of the war into the campaign, much like the supermods have done for SH3 and 4.

If it REALLY IS mod friendly then we should easily be able to eliminate the cheese, change the GUI, give it the thing a realism facelift, expand the campaign and eventually tease a decent sim out of it.

Shame UBI couldn't do that in the first place though, rather than wasting time, money and resources on this stupid idea that you can get more people into the SH series by sticking boobs on it.

A quality game attracts the masses every time....though admittedly boobs may get you a few flirt, or two.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Nickolas

is it just me or there are certain elements from the crew taken DIRECTLY from das boot?

I got the same feeling.

The chief is the closest person on the boat to the commander, that rang the first bell.

Not all of the qualities mentioned "match up" with the analogous characters, but some of them do seem awfully familiar.

Das Boot had a "crier" (Ullmann), a "Nazi" (the 1WO), a guy who got picked on most often (the Bibelforscher, if that's the right term, the guy who was always reading religious stuff and praying)...