[REL] Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII

[vdr1981]

This mod will adjust submarine performance in order to meet historical data as much as possible...

Adjustments:

- Significantly reduced surface and underwater acceleration. Underwater acceleration: 1-6 knots, approx 45 sec. with 90-95% batteries capacity.
- Adjusted submarine max speed and range.
- Historically correct resulting speeds depending on the selected engine operating modes.
- Introduced drag for conning towers which will depend of conning twr type.
- Added one more operational mod for diesel engines which can be selected by commanding any speed higher than 18 knots. (Dreimal A.K. 3x A.K. utmost speed )
- Adjusted surface and underwater turning speeds and radius.
- Adjusted submarine's surface draught .
- Adjusted dive times/rates.
- New accurate Submarine.cfg entries for TDW's electric engines ratio patch.
- Battery recharging propulsion fix for type VIIb.
- Battery life time as per Volodya's settings
- Engine RPM gauges connected with corresponding engine and propeller shaft.
- Significantly increased external torpedoes transfer time and internal torpedoes reloading times. Ext. torpedoes: approx. 4h,
Internal torpedoes: about 25min.
- Optimized for use with TDW gen.patcher
- Modified crew special abilities costs in order to sustain realistic submarine performance. Some abilities like max dive depth will be free from the start, while others are impossible to unlock , like level 2 for overcharge diesel/electric engines ability ect...

v 1.7 Changelog:
- Compatibility with TDW RPM inertia patch
- Adjusted drag for conning towers
- Adjusted sub's acceleration and tourning performance. Underwater acceleration is now, because of the new TDW's RPM inertia patch, 90-100% historically correct.

v 1.6 Changelog:
- Adjusted surface up/down drag factor.
- Adjusted underwater up/down drag factor and ballast tanks values (dive rate).
- Adjusted values for UI depth commands:
Crash dive depth: 100m
Dive: all the way down...

v 1.5 Changelog:
- Adjusted up/down drag factor.

Manual changes:

Change entries in menu.txt (SH5/data/Menu) file from this...

10026=Click to enable/disable speed commands for the port shaft
10027=Click to enable/disable speed commands for the starboard shaft

to something like this./...

10026=Enable/disable speed commands for the STARBORD diesel/electric engine
10027=Enable/disable speed commands for the PORT diesel/electric engine

*Manual changes aren't mandatory, but it's nice to have them on board

Compatibility and install. instructions:

The mod is compatible and tested with following conflicting mods:
- FX_Update_0_0_22_ByTheDarkWraith
- NewUIs_TDC_7_*_*_ByTheDarkWraith
- Submarine's .sim&cfg (modified for engine ratio + independent control patches).7z
- Reworked Morale and Abilities v.1.1
*Instrall Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII last with JSGME. It is recommended to star new campaign after the mod is enabled.


Sources:
http://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/id/oni220-ge.../index.htm#toc

[Download Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII]



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I'm trying to collect as much data as possible and gradually modifying u-boat sim and cfg files in order to meet historically confirmed Type VII performance...

Here are some preliminary test data...

[gap]

Nice idea Vecko, keep up your good work

Talking about the engine ratios/speed graph, was in-game data measured with TDW's engine ratio patch enabled?

Even with it enabled, there were still some dicrepancies between expected and measured speeds, especially for back speed orders, though I can't remember all the details now. I suggest you having a good look into old posts of TDW's patch thread.

Something I remember for sure is that, according to historical data, engine rpm and u-boat speeds had a linear relation:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1677
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2258
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2254

SH5 uses a sigmoidal function for calculating maximum theoretical speed over engine ratio:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2291
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2292
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2314

What is odd to me is that max speeds set in boats' sim files don't show in the above algorythm and that actual speeds in game don't follow its graph

[vdr1981]

Tnx for use full links Gap...

Originally Posted by gap

Nice idea Vecko, keep up your good work

Talking about the engine ratios/speed graph, was in-game data measured with TDW's engine ratio patch enabled?

Sure, enabled...

Originally Posted by gap

Max speed points for both diesel and electric propulsion are substantially aligned on the same straight line, wereas min speed values can be interpolated by two lines whose gradients are similar to the ones seen in the previous graph, with electric propulsion having a lesser slope than diesel propulsion (0.0262-0.0280 vs. 0.0357-0.0366). This makes me to think that the max speeds reported for each speed order are sort of theoretical values. What do you think guys?

Just a small correction on this one.. Those are not min and max speeds...Those are max speeds for trim conditions A and B which are basically A-something like half full submarine and B- combat ready sub with max fuel, armament ect... Electric engine max speeds from your post are actually speeds with electric engines on surface...

Originally Posted by gap

Even with it enabled, there were still some dicrepancies between expected and measured speeds, especially for back speed orders, though I can't remember all the details now. I suggest you having a good look into old posts of TDW's patch thread.

RPM values shown in the submarine looks just fine but we can't be 100% sure because almost every gauge shows slightly different values, which is OK IMO...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Tnx for use full links Gap...

My pleasure

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Just a small correction on this one.. Those are not min and max speeds...Those are max speeds for trim conditions A and B which are basically A-something like half full submarine and B- combat ready sub with max fuel, armament ect... Electric engine max speeds from your post are actually speeds with electric engines on surface...

Yep, initially I gave different sets of measures generical 'min' and 'max' attributions because I wasn't sure what they were relative to. Eventually I realized that 'Electric max' was actually electric propulsion on surface, but I was still unsure about the meaning of the two diesel speed sets. Thank you for clarifying

Originally Posted by vdr1981

RPM values shown in the submarine looks just fine but we can't be 100% sure because almost every gauge shows slightly different values, which is OK IMO...

maybe...

I have finally found the thread where I and Fifi discussed this topic. Please read the following post and further replies to it:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=314

Most differences between theoretical and practical (i.e. measured in game) engine rpm/speeds, might be well within a normal margin of error. Nonetheless, the 'back emergency' bell for both diesel and electric propulsions shows a consistent discrepancy from expected values, too high for being simply accounted as 'measurement error'

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

As for the British report, it doesn't give any special detail about diesel speed names, and for electric propulsion speeds, only English telegraph orders are listed. Yet, only a rough correspondence can be found between the German and the English terminology as far as telegraph order and ratios are involved. As a consequence, I would suggest to adopt engine ratios derived from the German manual, using data from the Admiralty report only as a cross-reference, and for calculation of speed/rpm gradients of "average" u-boats. Boat's cfg files would therefore change as follows:

Yes, that's exactly what I have done...Our cfg entries are very similar and it's clearly visible that we used the same method.
But, that's "only" cfg file and it doesn't have any impact on sub performance. It only defines values for UI buttons and commands, if we use ingame speed scale in knots or depth scale in meters instead of buttons with preset values , cfg file is completely irrelevant.

I have impression that you were struggling to decide which sources are "more correct" and relevant? I had the same problem but maybe they are all correct in some way? Maybe British didn't have enough knowledge to "take maximum" from the U-boat or maybe sea conditions were different that day..Maybe British sub was heavier/lighter than the sub used in German manual... Who knows...What we know for sure is that top speed of type VIIC was somewhere between 16.7 and 18.1 knots with RPM of 470-490 and that is enough for us.

I must say that I'm pretty much surprised to realize that there were so much work with sub sim and cfg files but no one ever tried to actually prevent ridiculous underwater and surface acceleration and to match turning times and radius ?!

[vdr1981]

Hm, one more thing...

I've noticed that you was exploring extensively dependencies between max engine turation(aka RPM) and submarine speeds, right?
Didn't you realize that max engine turation value has nothing to do with submarine performance? Even if you set some lower value , like 100 for example, the sub will still have the same max speed and acceleration performance. What will be reduced is submarine noise signature(as far as AI is considered), animation of propellers rotation and values shown in RPM gauges...
In short, with full speed ahead, you'll have sub which speeding up to ~17.9 knots but with much slower propellers rotation and rpm gauge will show you 100 rpm...

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

This mod will adjust submarine performance in order to meet historical data as much as possible...

Adjustments:

- Significantly reduced surface and underwater acceleration.
- Adjusted submarine max speed and range.
- Adjusted surface and underwater turning speeds and radius.
- Adjusted dive times.
- New Submarine.cfg entries for TDW's electric engines ratio patch.
- Battery recharging propulsion fix for type VIIb
- Battery life time as per Volodya's settings
- Engine RPM gauges connected with corresponding engine and propeller shaft.
- Significantly increased torpedo external transfer and reloading times.
- Optimized for TDW gen.patcher


The mod is compatible and tested with following conflicting mods:
- FX_Update_0_0_22_ByTheDarkWraith
- NewUIs_TDC_7_*_*_ByTheDarkWraith
- Submarine's .sim&cfg (modified for engine ratio + independent control patches).7z
*Instrall Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII last with JSGME. It is recommended to star new campaign after the mod is enabled.

Well, after looong testing new version is uploaded and also I've added more detailed description and installation instructions to the first post, check it out...
Feel free to try it out, but I must warn you, it's not for the faint of hart and for the captains who get used to wipe out entire convoy with one blow...
Cheers!

[Gammel]

Yiiipeeeeeeeeee
this is so cool just what i was missing in my game setup.
And also a very wise decision you kept compatibility with TDW Mods. Yours and his work has doen so much for a better subsim.
Cannot live without any of it.

Installs nice last on my and prob. most modlists.

[Gammel]

Huh?


Installed the mod and my sub drove like a sportscar out of the bunker?
Also 10 knots on ahead slow (2) ?


Have to admit i didn't started new career but installed when in bunker.

Feels strange somehow but i only played for 2 minutes then left the game to make this posting.

Edit:
As i can see in the first postings speed chart now that should be correct behavior..

Question:

what will that do to with the harbour pilot mod? Will i still hit the channel?

This weekend i have the time to play for real, sorry for quick and dirty impressions
but the sub felt really really fast - i used the pilot and it goes aheal slow automatic.


Next time i'll leave harbour on one engine and electric motors.
You now - that nasty acoustic mines thommys dropped lately..

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by Gammel

Installed the mod and my sub drove like a sportscar out of the bunker?

Surface acceleration is reduced by something like 60%, I cant do better than that or submarine will become too slow in turns...

Originally Posted by Gammel

Also 10 knots on ahead slow (2) ?

Exactle as it should be...Check out this link, page 14 http://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm

Originally Posted by Gammel

Have to admit i didn't started new career but installed when in bunker.

You better do that...

Originally Posted by Gammel

Question:

what will that do to with the harbour pilot mod? Will i still hit the channel?

This weekend i have the time to play for real, sorry for quick and dirty impressions
but the sub felt really really fast - i used the pilot and it goes aheal slow automatic.

Harbor pilots work just fine for me with not so high TC, most of the time...Harbor pilot will betray you sooner or later, with or without this mod...

[THE_MASK]

I will put this mod in my sobers mega mod .

[Gammel]

cool thx for your post and o.c. again for your mod vdr1981

i'll see if i can manage changing harbour pilot to use slower speed until first waypoint.



Iirc it was in iron coffins claimed that using electrics out of the french harbour was standard - couse of airdropped acoustic mines.

i did so yesterday, ahead slow and one engine electric and it was smooth setting to move and very creepy out of the bunker. Just feels right. I want this in harbour pilot but will become off topic to much here.

i see in the kiel file it starts ahead one third, this should be not to hard to change. But how to give command one engine only + electric? guess the answer in in menu.txt or submarine.cfg...

from the harbour pilot kiel file:
Ahead_one_third,0,0,0,0,0,0,2



You know it's how in real life sometimes: you'll only get the few bad or not so good from start things in responce if you archived a great project.
I'm perfectly sure this mod will give much fun and is same quality as your R.S.D. Projekt
my comments are not to be seen as a rant or unhappy customer.

[tonschk]

Originally Posted by sober

I will put this mod in my sobers mega mod .

[mafansiwo]

oh man.This is some serious work。

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

v 1.7 Changelog:
- Compatibility with TDW RPM inertia patch
- Adjusted drag for conning towers
- Adjusted sub's acceleration and tourning performance. Underwater acceleration is now, because of the new TDW's RPM inertia patch, 90-100% historically correct.

Hi all again!
New version is ready for download. No more crasy depth charges dodging...