[REL] Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII
 

This mod will adjust submarine performance in order to meet historical data as much as possible...

Adjustments:

- Significantly reduced surface and underwater acceleration. Underwater acceleration: 1-6 knots, approx 45 sec. with 90-95% batteries capacity.
- Adjusted submarine max speed and range.
- Historically correct resulting speeds depending on the selected engine operating modes.
- Introduced drag for conning towers which will depend of conning twr type.
- Added one more operational mod for diesel engines which can be selected by commanding any speed higher than 18 knots. (Dreimal A.K. 3x A.K. utmost speed )
- Adjusted surface and underwater turning speeds and radius.
- Adjusted submarine's surface draught .
- Adjusted dive times/rates.
- New accurate Submarine.cfg entries for TDW's electric engines ratio patch.
- Battery recharging propulsion fix for type VIIb.
- Battery life time as per Volodya's settings
- Engine RPM gauges connected with corresponding engine and propeller shaft.
- Significantly increased external torpedoes transfer time and internal torpedoes reloading times. Ext. torpedoes: approx. 4h,
Internal torpedoes: about 25min.
- Optimized for use with TDW gen.patcher
- Modified crew special abilities costs in order to sustain realistic submarine performance. Some abilities like max dive depth will be free from the start, while others are impossible to unlock , like level 2 for overcharge diesel/electric engines ability ect...

v 1.7 Changelog:
- Compatibility with TDW RPM inertia patch
- Adjusted drag for conning towers
- Adjusted sub's acceleration and tourning performance. Underwater acceleration is now, because of the new TDW's RPM inertia patch, 90-100% historically correct.

v 1.6 Changelog:
- Adjusted surface up/down drag factor.
- Adjusted underwater up/down drag factor and ballast tanks values (dive rate).
- Adjusted values for UI depth commands:
Crash dive depth: 100m
Dive: all the way down...

v 1.5 Changelog:
- Adjusted up/down drag factor.

Manual changes:

Change entries in menu.txt (SH5/data/Menu) file from this...
to something like this./...
*Manual changes aren't mandatory, but it's nice to have them on board

Compatibility and install. instructions:

The mod is compatible and tested with following conflicting mods:
- FX_Update_0_0_22_ByTheDarkWraith
- NewUIs_TDC_7_*_*_ByTheDarkWraith
- Submarine's .sim&cfg (modified for engine ratio + independent control patches).7z
- Reworked Morale and Abilities v.1.1
*Instrall Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII last with JSGME. It is recommended to star new campaign after the mod is enabled.


Sources:
http://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/id/oni220-ge.../index.htm#toc

[Download Real U-Boat Performance - Type VII]



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I'm trying to collect as much data as possible and gradually modifying u-boat sim and cfg files in order to meet historically confirmed Type VII performance...

Here are some preliminary test data...

http://s6.postimg.org/43pbeckxd/chartgo.png

http://s6.postimg.org/bizbekd0x/chartgo.png http://s6.postimg.org/as6l8sanl/chartgo_1.png

http://s6.postimg.org/i7l6mqs4x/chartgo_3.png

:subsim:

Nice idea Vecko, keep up your good work :yeah:

Talking about the engine ratios/speed graph, was in-game data measured with TDW's engine ratio patch enabled?

Even with it enabled, there were still some dicrepancies between expected and measured speeds, especially for back speed orders, though I can't remember all the details now. I suggest you having a good look into old posts of TDW's patch thread.

Something I remember for sure is that, according to historical data, engine rpm and u-boat speeds had a linear relation: :yep:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1677
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2258
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2254

SH5 uses a sigmoidal function for calculating maximum theoretical speed over engine ratio:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2291
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2292
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2314

What is odd to me is that max speeds set in boats' sim files don't show in the above algorythm and that actual speeds in game don't follow its graph :hmmm:

Tnx for use full links Gap...
Sure, enabled...

Just a small correction on this one.. Those are not min and max speeds...Those are max speeds for trim conditions A and B which are basically A-something like half full submarine and B- combat ready sub with max fuel, armament ect... Electric engine max speeds from your post are actually speeds with electric engines on surface...

RPM values shown in the submarine looks just fine but we can't be 100% sure because almost every gauge shows slightly different values, which is OK IMO...

My pleasure :salute:

Yep, initially I gave different sets of measures generical 'min' and 'max' attributions because I wasn't sure what they were relative to. Eventually I realized that 'Electric max' was actually electric propulsion on surface, but I was still unsure about the meaning of the two diesel speed sets. Thank you for clarifying :up:

maybe...

I have finally found the thread where I and Fifi discussed this topic. Please read the following post and further replies to it:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=314

Most differences between theoretical and practical (i.e. measured in game) engine rpm/speeds, might be well within a normal margin of error. Nonetheless, the 'back emergency' bell for both diesel and electric propulsions shows a consistent discrepancy from expected values, too high for being simply accounted as 'measurement error' :hmm2:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6946/6nrn.jpg

Yes, that's exactly what I have done...Our cfg entries are very similar and it's clearly visible that we used the same method.
But, that's "only" cfg file and it doesn't have any impact on sub performance. It only defines values for UI buttons and commands, if we use ingame speed scale in knots or depth scale in meters instead of buttons with preset values , cfg file is completely irrelevant.

I have impression that you were struggling to decide which sources are "more correct" and relevant? I had the same problem but maybe they are all correct in some way? Maybe British didn't have enough knowledge to "take maximum" from the U-boat or maybe sea conditions were different that day..Maybe British sub was heavier/lighter than the sub used in German manual... Who knows...What we know for sure is that top speed of type VIIC was somewhere between 16.7 and 18.1 knots with RPM of 470-490 and that is enough for us.

I must say that I'm pretty much surprised to realize that there were so much work with sub sim and cfg files but no one ever tried to actually prevent ridiculous underwater and surface acceleration and to match turning times and radius ?!

Hm, one more thing...:hmmm:

I've noticed that you was exploring extensively dependencies between max engine turation(aka RPM) and submarine speeds, right?
Didn't you realize that max engine turation value has nothing to do with submarine performance? Even if you set some lower value , like 100 for example, the sub will still have the same max speed and acceleration performance. What will be reduced is submarine noise signature(as far as AI is considered), animation of propellers rotation and values shown in RPM gauges...
In short, with full speed ahead, you'll have sub which speeding up to ~17.9 knots but with much slower propellers rotation and rpm gauge will show you 100 rpm...

:up:

I think you mean that engine ratios set in cfg files do not affect neither rpm/speed curve, nor maximum engine outputs (which are always in the range -1 +1 if manual speed selection is used). If this is what you meant, I agree with both your assertions.

Rpm figures and speed outputs reported by the two sources are pretty similar after all, and their graphs are almost identical. Data from the German manual seem to suggest better engine outputs, but those figures had to be just theoretical outputs.

For a long while, U-boat Historical Specifications was considered a must-have mod. Then ddrgn stopped updating it, a few of its settings were merged into New-UIs, and the rest of the mod became abondonware. :-?

Many of the specs you want to adjust, are affected by drag parameters. Besides hull-specific drag coefficients (set in u-boat sim files), there are also additional drag coefficients for armament and conning towers (it is a known fact that they affected heavily boats' handling). For some reason devs didn't use them, but they work, as tested by Volodya a while back. I suggest you making a good use of them, but beware: they use a different scaling factor than main unit drags. For a start, you should have a close look into the following post by Ducimus on the SubmarineSimCentral forum:

http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=1953

Last, if you also plan to make diving times more realistic, the following threads by Rubini might come in handy: :03:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...78#post1846678
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...60#post2017360

Of course speed and acceleration won't change with max rpm, as far as max speed and engine power are fixed. I and Fifi have only tried macthing rpm and speeds with the corresponding values reported in our sources, with the intent of getting realistic noise signatures at various speeds/engine ratio bells (Schleichfahrt = ca. 90 rpm = ca. 2.4 knots = somewhere between Kleine Fahrt and Langsame Fahrt; source: http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBNotesPropulsion.htm, combined with our other sources). :yep:

This is so cool!:Kaleun_Applaud:

Ok, I've uploaded the files, I don't think we can get much closer than this...When I find some spare time I'll update first post to elaborate everything in details...

:up:

A suggestion: in game, u-boat performances are affected in several respects by crew promotion points. I don't know how realistic many of the passive and active abilities implemented in SH5 are (for sure Rongel's Reworked Morale & Abilities got ried of the most unrealistic ones), but your mod should also take this aspect into consideration. In general, I would expect the specs reported by your sources to be the optimal figures, attained by a full trained crew.

Just ignore this post if you have already dealed with crew abilities :)

Thank you very much :up: vdr1981 :yeah::salute:

Do we just load this mod up through jsgme or do we have to manually load the changes?:hmmm:

Hi Bandit, the mod is JSGME ready, manual changes are not necessary...

Vdr thank you

I think I've found the way to modified torpedo reloading times. Also, I found this statement on the net which says:

Reloading (torpedoes) was phisically demanding work and could not be carried out on the surface if there were more than moderated seas or any danger of having to dive suddenly.
To reload, men and bunks had to be moved out out of the way, torpedoes unlashed from their storage position and the winched up with chains and finally
manhandled into the tube.
Trimmimg the boat slightly bow heavy made it easier to heave them downhill, but despite this, it still took a good A GOOD HALF AN HOUR TO RELOAD ONE.
Therefore, it is not difficult to appreciate that a boat have to remain submerged
for more than an hour to reload three or four torpedoes, and this was long enough to lose an entire convoy at sea, meaning another spell of running on the surface
at fast speed before getting into another favourable shooting position.

Is this statement correct?