Subsim front page article that pissed me off

areo16 · 11-23-13, 05:26 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4320031.html

Nazi Submarine Torpedoed During WWII Likely Found With Crew's Remains (PHOTOS)

Have some respect please. Not all kriegsmarine sailors were nazis, and most of them were not. Even so, you've just labeled the whole german submarine crew anti-semantic fanatic.

Have some respect for the dead comrade who died for something he believed in, his country. For God's sake.

11-23-13, 05:35 PM

Well it was a Nazi Sub as it was a German Sub.
At that time all Subs belonging to the Germans were NAZI Subs!
Don't mean the Men onboard were Nazi's.
You need to read between the headlines.
Nazi draws more readers then WWII sub found.

Cybermat47 · 11-23-13, 05:40 PM

Perhaps you should take that issue up with the people who wrote the article, not the person who copy and pasted it

areo16 · 11-23-13, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Perhaps you should take that issue up with the people who wrote the article, not the person who copy and pasted it

I think both have a bit of the responsibility involved. The writer of the article has more, but the reposter has some too. Don't just blindly repost things.

Bilge_Rat · 11-24-13, 03:27 PM

I don't see the issue. U-168 was as much a Nazi instrument of destruction as the gas chambers at Auschwitz. There as been much historical revisionism to try to whitewash german servicemen, but the truth is that everyone who rose to a position of authority was a Nazi or loyal to Hitler, that includes Donitz and aces like Prien or Schepke.

U-boat commander Kultsch was court martialed and executed for making vague anti-Hitler statements. Much of the crew testified against him and no one in the U-boat force, including Donitz, lifted a finger to save him.

Since the war, you have seen countless German high ranking officer claiming they were not really Nazis, they had no idea about the Holocaust or were just following orders. That is pretty much a lie, most shared the Nazis goals and knew what was going on.

The real anti-Nazis did not serve, they were jailed like Curt Jurgens or escaped like Willi Brandt.

areo16 · 11-23-13, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Well it was a Nazi Sub as it was a German Sub.
At that time all Subs belonging to the Germans were NAZI Subs!

Nazis and Germans aren't the same thing. Not all Nazis were German and not all Germans were Nazis.

I understand where your coming from that the label stuck even though it isnt politically correct. Just because the government was national socialist doesn't mean the military should be labeled as such. Just because the US has a Democrat in office does that mean we should call all our troops Democrats or Dems?

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Don't mean the Men onboard were Nazi's.
You need to read between the headlines.
Nazi draws more readers then WWII sub found.

It certainly grabbed my attention, because its disrespectful I think to the German veterans. Most were fighting for their nation, and because they were proud to be German. Others probably fought because they had no choice but to.

mookiemookie · 11-23-13, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16

Just because the US has a Democrat in office does that mean we should call all our troops Democrats or Dems?

Well if the Democrats outlawed all other parties as Hitler did in 1933, if the Democrats made their party symbols the official symbols of the country, and if the government was run entirely by the Democrats, then yes you could make that comparison.

But since the Nazi party was the ruling party of the time, to the exclusion of all others, it is fair to call it a Nazi submarine.

areo16 · 11-23-13, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Well if the Democrats outlawed all other parties as Hitler did in 1933, if the Democrats made their party symbols the official symbols of the country, and if the government was run entirely by the Democrats, then yes you could make that comparison.

But since the Nazi party was the ruling party of the time, to the exclusion of all others, it is fair to call it a Nazi submarine.

The submarine is a machine, it does not decide on what political ideology it is. It's not a living thing. The submarine was military equipment, it was not a party standard or a nazi flag. The submarine is not Nazi, it is German Kreigsmarine.

Cybermat47 · 11-23-13, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16

The submarine is a machine, it does not decide on what political ideology it is. It's not a living thing. The submarine was military equipment, it was not a party standard or a nazi flag. The submarine is not Nazi, it is German Kreigsmarine.

And the German Kriegsmarine was under the command of Adolf Hitler.

11-23-13, 07:10 PM

You want to argue the title placed on the Sub by media types.
That's funny as hell!

Herr-Berbunch · 11-23-13, 05:45 PM

The title is copied verbatim from the one the Huffington Post used, as are all news articles. If you don't like it complain to the originator.

You and I both know not all the guys on a U-boat were nazis, not all the service personnel were Nazis, not all Germans were Nazis (and nor are they now!) - here you are preaching to the choir. Take it to your politicians and journalists to not sensationalize/stereotype and you'll be onto a winner for sure.

areo16 · 11-23-13, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

The title is copied verbatim from the one the Huffington Post used, as are all news articles. If you don't like it complain to the originator.

You and I both know not all the guys on a U-boat were nazis, not all the service personnel were Nazis, not all Germans were Nazis (and nor are they now!) - here you are preaching to the choir. Take it to your politicians and journalists to not sensationalize/stereotype and you'll be onto a winner for sure.

Its coming. There will be a media evolution with it soon. Too soon yet? Not sure, many ww2 vets have already passed, so the time may be now.

11-23-13, 06:15 PM

I don't know who died on that U-boat.
They may or may not have been Nazi Party.
What I do know.
It was a Nazi U-Boat.
It was sunk.
It was found.
Everyone on that U-Boat is dead for a long time now.
They were found and now a proper place as to where they rest is known.

I salute them for doing thier Duty no matter what they believed in at that moment in time.

Maybe some were Nazi. They died for what they believed in.

I can only hope I am remembered in such a way.

areo16 · 11-23-13, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

It was a Nazi U-Boat.

Your blending the political party with the military. These are two separate things. Sometimes they shared units, like the paramilitary forces that consisted solely of Nazi sympathizers, but this uboat was not one of those shared units.

Ducimus · 11-25-13, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

I don't know who died on that U-boat.
They may or may not have been Nazi Party.
What I do know.
It was a Nazi U-Boat.
It was sunk.
It was found.
Everyone on that U-Boat is dead for a long time now.
They were found and now a proper place as to where they rest is known.

I salute them for doing thier Duty no matter what they believed in at that moment in time.

Maybe some were Nazi. They died for what they believed in.

I can only hope I am remembered in such a way.

I honestly don't know why people get butthurt when a Uboat is called a "Nazi submarine".

Every sub theater has its fans, I understand this more then most. In the case of WW2 german subs, the facts are very clear.

- The flag flown from rear of the conning tower while in port was what?
- Said flag was a variation of the national flag of the day.
- Said U boats were part of the Kreigsmarine. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsmarine )
- Said Uboat was NOT part of the Bundesmarine. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Navy )

To say it was a Nazi submarine, IS historically accurate, but as mentioned, it does not mean every man on board was a card carrying member of the Nazi party. And i'm sure after 12 pages, I am completely off topic, but I thought id toss in my 2 cents for the hell of it.

11-23-13, 05:26 PM	#1
areo16 Sonar Guy Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 382 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Subsim front page article that pissed me off http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4320031.html Nazi Submarine Torpedoed During WWII Likely Found With Crew's Remains (PHOTOS) Have some respect please. Not all kriegsmarine sailors were nazis, and most of them were not. Even so, you've just labeled the whole german submarine crew anti-semantic fanatic. Have some respect for the dead comrade who died for something he believed in, his country. For God's sake.

11-23-13, 05:40 PM	#3
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	Perhaps you should take that issue up with the people who wrote the article, not the person who copy and pasted it __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

11-24-13, 03:27 PM	#5
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	I don't see the issue. U-168 was as much a Nazi instrument of destruction as the gas chambers at Auschwitz. There as been much historical revisionism to try to whitewash german servicemen, but the truth is that everyone who rose to a position of authority was a Nazi or loyal to Hitler, that includes Donitz and aces like Prien or Schepke. U-boat commander Kultsch was court martialed and executed for making vague anti-Hitler statements. Much of the crew testified against him and no one in the U-boat force, including Donitz, lifted a finger to save him. Since the war, you have seen countless German high ranking officer claiming they were not really Nazis, they had no idea about the Holocaust or were just following orders. That is pretty much a lie, most shared the Nazis goals and knew what was going on. The real anti-Nazis did not serve, they were jailed like Curt Jurgens or escaped like Willi Brandt. __________________

11-23-13, 05:45 PM	#11
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	The title is copied verbatim from the one the Huffington Post used, as are all news articles. If you don't like it complain to the originator. You and I both know not all the guys on a U-boat were nazis, not all the service personnel were Nazis, not all Germans were Nazis (and nor are they now!) - here you are preaching to the choir. Take it to your politicians and journalists to not sensationalize/stereotype and you'll be onto a winner for sure. __________________

11-23-13, 05:35 PM	#2
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Well it was a Nazi Sub as it was a German Sub. At that time all Subs belonging to the Germans were NAZI Subs! Don't mean the Men onboard were Nazi's. You need to read between the headlines. Nazi draws more readers then WWII sub found.

11-23-13, 07:10 PM	#10
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	You want to argue the title placed on the Sub by media types. That's funny as hell!

11-23-13, 06:15 PM	#13
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I don't know who died on that U-boat. They may or may not have been Nazi Party. What I do know. It was a Nazi U-Boat. It was sunk. It was found. Everyone on that U-Boat is dead for a long time now. They were found and now a proper place as to where they rest is known. I salute them for doing thier Duty no matter what they believed in at that moment in time. Maybe some were Nazi. They died for what they believed in. I can only hope I am remembered in such a way.