Ahhh, the good old days...

12-10-07, 02:57 AM

Ahhh, the good old days...

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/aod/index.htm

Yesterday I was playing GWX 1.3 with LRT 1.35a Test Version. I was heavily depth charged. My U-boat was dragged down by the flooded compartments and sunk to the sea floor. Resting on the sea floor for many many hours, trying to repair electric motors and stop the flooding. We were running out of oxygen and repairs were taking much too long. After almost 24 hours on the bottom of the ocean we decided we had run out of time and blew tanks several times.. but it was no use! The flooded compartments were too heavy, still trapping us on the bottom. The U-boat would not rise no matter what we did. Her captain and crew died from lack of oxygen. Trapped in their steel tomb forever.

That brought back so many memories of staying up until late morning hours playing Aces of the Deep when I was younger. One of my all-time favorite games.

The good old days...

Janus · 12-10-07, 04:01 AM

Do the longer repair times work with GWX?
I read that it "destroys" the crew efficiency model of GWX.

12-10-07, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus

Do the longer repair times work with GWX?
I read that it "destroys" the crew efficiency model of GWX.

Hmm. Where did you read that? A long time ago LRT did change crew efficiencies regarding detections and stuff. But not anymore.

Janus · 12-10-07, 10:57 AM

This is where I read it:
Source: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

I'm going to talk (a little) about some things that will NOT be in GWX version 1.04... or that you may not like... and give everybody a head start on complaining about it.:p

Longer repair times:
The LRT mod that many are familiar with, will not be included in GWX. Not only does it break the crew qualifcation system and play havoc with sensor employment in SH3/GWX, but it also puts at risk our tried and tested player U-boat damage model. Though the currently available LRT mod(s) might possibly be adapted to work with GWX, there are a great many hidden side effects that I think people just don't understand in relation to its interaction with GWX files. Repair times in GWX are already slightly lengthened over stock... and this is in line with research that indicates long/lengthy repairs couldn't really be done at sea. (as in the movie Das Boot) [...]

12-10-07, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janus

This is where I read it:
Source: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

I'm going to talk (a little) about some things that will NOT be in GWX version 1.04... or that you may not like... and give everybody a head start on complaining about it.:p

Longer repair times:
The LRT mod that many are familiar with, will not be included in GWX. Not only does it break the crew qualifcation system and play havoc with sensor employment in SH3/GWX, but it also puts at risk our tried and tested player U-boat damage model. Though the currently available LRT mod(s) might possibly be adapted to work with GWX, there are a great many hidden side effects that I think people just don't understand in relation to its interaction with GWX files. Repair times in GWX are already slightly lengthened over stock... and this is in line with research that indicates long/lengthy repairs couldn't really be done at sea. (as in the movie Das Boot) [...]

Ouch. Never saw that post before. As far as I know, LRT doesn't change sensor employment. The early versions did, but not the later versions. Not sure why he said that. :hmm: As far as breaking crew qualification system, I'm not so sure about that either. As far as long, lengthy repairs couldn't be done at sea- I have to partially disagree with that statement. Yes, there was a limit to what a crew could repair at sea. But I have read of certain U-boat repairs taking up to a day or more. Overall, that statement is only partially true. Some spare parts were carried aboard U-boats. Smaller repairs could be done at sea, but major repairs would require a ship yard. Also, the really, really long repairs in LRT simulate certain repairs that cannot be done at sea because it takes too long. But the damaged part is still damaged and doesn't work as well. And yes, LRT does change one tried and tested U-boat damage model (GWX) to another tried and tested U-boat damage model (LRT).

I don't really know what to say about that post. Kind of surprises me. The Kpt. is well aware that I have been releasing LRT lite versions to use with GWX that only change repair and flood times. Nothing else. It must have slipped his mind. No one is forced to use LRT with GWX. That's for sure. After reading that, I'm not so motivated any more to release an LRT version for GWX 2.

Janus · 12-10-07, 12:10 PM

Oh.
Personally I have never used GWX, but LRT I would not want to play without it!
I really love the longer repair times, they are way more entertaining than the normal SHIII ones.
However I play with the LRT for GWX, because I could not find any non-GWX LRT versions, are there any?

Subtype Zero · 12-11-07, 01:32 AM

NVdrifter,
As one who truly enjoys both GWX and LRT, I hope you will reconsider your decision to halt work on LRT for GWX 2.0. I am relatively new to the community, so I am unfamiliar with any personal history you may have with the GWX development team, and I do not wish to make you or anyone have to relive any unpleasant memories, if any.

Having said that, and at the risk of interjecting myself into the middle of something I know very little about, I humbly offer my opinion. From reading your posts and the thread mentioned above, I don't believe any personal animosity toward you was meant by Kpt. Lehmann. It is unfortunate he mentioned your mod first in his thread about what was not to be included with GWX 2.0. I can certainly understand how you would feel singled out by that. In addition, from reading some of his other posts, it seems the Kpt. sometimes tends to "shoot from the hip," especially when talking about his "baby."

OTOH, I think some of his hesitancy about your mod stemmed from his mistaken view that you had, in his words, "left the community." As such, he was probably afraid that you were not going to be around to resolve any of the remaining imcompatabilities between LRT and GWX, or later, for user support should some kind of problem arise between your mod and GWX. Since the GWX team did not know much about what they thought was an "unfinished" mod (my word, not theirs), they probably felt it best not to include it with GWX 2.0.

I agree that Kpt. Lehmann may have made some misstatements about "broken" crew qualification system and sensors, but again, I don't think he was trying to be malicious. More likely just ignorance about the progress you had made (and continue to make!) with your mod.

I just want you to know that I am a great fan of both your work and the work of GWX, so I would hate to have to choose between using your mod or GWX 2.0. Ideally, (and selfishly, I admit) I will be able to use both! In any event, you have to listen to your own intuition to decide what is the right thing to do. If working on your mod gives you enjoyment, go for it! But don't let what other people think (including myself) make that decision for you!

12-11-07, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subtype Zero

NVdrifter,
As one who truly enjoys both GWX and LRT, I hope you will reconsider your decision to halt work on LRT for GWX 2.0. I am relatively new to the community, so I am unfamiliar with any personal history you may have with the GWX development team, and I do not wish to make you or anyone have to relive any unpleasant memories, if any.

Having said that, and at the risk of interjecting myself into the middle of something I know very little about, I humbly offer my opinion. From reading your posts and the thread mentioned above, I don't believe any personal animosity toward you was meant by Kpt. Lehmann. It is unfortunate he mentioned your mod first in his thread about what was not to be included with GWX 2.0. I can certainly understand how you would feel singled out by that. In addition, from reading some of his other posts, it seems the Kpt. sometimes tends to "shoot from the hip," especially when talking about his "baby."

OTOH, I think some of his hesitancy about your mod stemmed from his mistaken view that you had, in his words, "left the community." As such, he was probably afraid that you were not going to be around to resolve any of the remaining imcompatabilities between LRT and GWX, or later, for user support should some kind of problem arise between your mod and GWX. Since the GWX team did not know much about what they thought was an "unfinished" mod (my word, not theirs), they probably felt it best not to include it with GWX 2.0.

I agree that Kpt. Lehmann may have made some misstatements about "broken" crew qualification system and sensors, but again, I don't think he was trying to be malicious. More likely just ignorance about the progress you had made (and continue to make!) with your mod.

I just want you to know that I am a great fan of both your work and the work of GWX, so I would hate to have to choose between using your mod or GWX 2.0. Ideally, (and selfishly, I admit) I will be able to use both! In any event, you have to listen to your own intuition to decide what is the right thing to do. If working on your mod gives you enjoyment, go for it! But don't let what other people think (including myself) make that decision for you!

Thanks. I understand what you are saying. I really don't want to get involved in all the political bs. I just want to make a better SH3 and SH4. Let's just try to forget the whole thing.

Subtype Zero · 12-11-07, 03:23 AM

I appreciate your reply. No problem about forgetting the whole thing. Let's just concentrate on sinking them Brits!

Kpt. Lehmann · 12-11-07, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

... Let's just try to forget the whole thing.

Let's do forget it... you are flaming me prematurely and unfairly. Out of respect for the good relationship that you and I have always had... debating matters of 'realism' will always come down to interpretation.

I had every intention of working with you to create an integrated version of the LRT mod to be a standard inclusion for GWX 2.0...

Hell man, I even invited you to join the dev team... and you accepted... and then you almost immediately left the community.

Now you have returned to see a train that has left the station... and a condition that leaves us too busy to explore LRT options properly in such a way that we can endorse them. No offense is intended... but there are negative side effects that I cannot effectively address here and now. So the users will have to decide.

I know that real life matters come first... but the opportunity was clearly there.

Nvdrifter, no statement that I have EVER made concerning your modwork was driven by 'politics' or carried out with the intent to 'bash' your work.

Really disappointed in you mate.

12-11-07, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

... Let's just try to forget the whole thing.

Let's do forget it... you are flaming me prematurely and unfairly. Out of respect for the good relationship that you and I have always had... debating matters of 'realism' will always come down to interpretation.

I had every intention of working with you to create an integrated version of the LRT mod to be a standard inclusion for GWX 2.0...

Hell man, I even invited you to join the dev team... and you accepted... and then you almost immediately left the community.

Now you have returned to see a train that has left the station... and a condition that leaves us too busy to explore LRT options properly in such a way that we can endorse them. No offense is intended... but there are negative side effects that I cannot effectively address here and now. So the users will have to decide.

I know that real life matters come first... but the opportunity was clearly there.

Nvdrifter, no statement that I have EVER made concerning your modwork was driven by 'politics' or carried out with the intent to 'bash' your work.

Really disappointed in you mate.

Lol. I was happy to 'let the train leave without me' because I didn't like all the negativity I was seeing in the GWX dev forum regarding the negativity you were encouraging against other, outside modders. And flaming, huh? Who's the one who started this whole thing by making false statemants about my mod and saying it breaks GWX?

But yes, let's do move on and forget this.

Kpt. Lehmann · 12-11-07, 06:59 AM

Well, I thought we could somehow meet in the middle regarding our differences of opinion and views on game balance. You once told me that we could work such things out. Your mod does indeed have arguably negative side-effects on GWX and it is not as simple as you would have users believe.

Players want everything and it places us all in an impossible position. Just as you make tough decisions for your mod... we must do the same with ours. Some matters/mod requests surfaced so often that we had to address them publicly and truthfully.

After dealing with tens of thousands of user support issues from installation to purple sub skins... have a little mercy.

Whatever goes on on our private forums is our business. It is our 'safe' place to vent to avoid carrying so much angst here. I'd appreciate it if you would honor the promise you made.

I guess you couldn't hear it as you are obviously quite angry and only seeing bits and pieces of my posts... so I'll say it one last time...

Nvdrifter, no statement that I have EVER made concerning your modwork was driven by 'politics' or carried out with the intent to 'bash' your work.

Take care Nvdrifter.

Badger Finn · 12-11-07, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

Ahhh, the good old days...

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/aod/index.htm

Yesterday I was playing GWX 1.3 with LRT 1.35a Test Version. I was heavily depth charged. My U-boat was dragged down by the flooded compartments and sunk to the sea floor. Resting on the sea floor for many many hours, trying to repair electric motors and stop the flooding. We were running out of oxygen and repairs were taking much too long. After almost 24 hours on the bottom of the ocean we decided we had run out of time and blew tanks several times.. but it was no use! The flooded compartments were too heavy, still trapping us on the bottom. The U-boat would not rise no matter what we did. Her captain and crew died from lack of oxygen. Trapped in their steel tomb forever.

That brought back so many memories of staying up until late morning hours playing Aces of the Deep when I was younger. One of my all-time favorite games.

The good old days...

YEP still got me chart had it laminated...

d@rk51d3 · 12-11-07, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger Finn

YEP still got me chart had it laminated...

Me too.

....Well, not laminated yet, but it's on my "to do" list.

Onkel Neal · 12-11-07, 07:11 AM

I usually close threads with a witty remark but I haven't had any coffee yet, so....

Thanks.

12-10-07, 02:57 AM	#1
nvdrifter Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Ahhh, the good old days... Ahhh, the good old days... http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/aod/index.htm Yesterday I was playing GWX 1.3 with LRT 1.35a Test Version. I was heavily depth charged. My U-boat was dragged down by the flooded compartments and sunk to the sea floor. Resting on the sea floor for many many hours, trying to repair electric motors and stop the flooding. We were running out of oxygen and repairs were taking much too long. After almost 24 hours on the bottom of the ocean we decided we had run out of time and blew tanks several times.. but it was no use! The flooded compartments were too heavy, still trapping us on the bottom. The U-boat would not rise no matter what we did. Her captain and crew died from lack of oxygen. Trapped in their steel tomb forever. That brought back so many memories of staying up until late morning hours playing Aces of the Deep when I was younger. One of my all-time favorite games. The good old days...

12-11-07, 01:32 AM	#7
Subtype Zero Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 19,998 Leagues under the sea Posts: 262 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	NVdrifter, As one who truly enjoys both GWX and LRT, I hope you will reconsider your decision to halt work on LRT for GWX 2.0. I am relatively new to the community, so I am unfamiliar with any personal history you may have with the GWX development team, and I do not wish to make you or anyone have to relive any unpleasant memories, if any. Having said that, and at the risk of interjecting myself into the middle of something I know very little about, I humbly offer my opinion. From reading your posts and the thread mentioned above, I don't believe any personal animosity toward you was meant by Kpt. Lehmann. It is unfortunate he mentioned your mod first in his thread about what was not to be included with GWX 2.0. I can certainly understand how you would feel singled out by that. In addition, from reading some of his other posts, it seems the Kpt. sometimes tends to "shoot from the hip," especially when talking about his "baby." OTOH, I think some of his hesitancy about your mod stemmed from his mistaken view that you had, in his words, "left the community." As such, he was probably afraid that you were not going to be around to resolve any of the remaining imcompatabilities between LRT and GWX, or later, for user support should some kind of problem arise between your mod and GWX. Since the GWX team did not know much about what they thought was an "unfinished" mod (my word, not theirs), they probably felt it best not to include it with GWX 2.0. I agree that Kpt. Lehmann may have made some misstatements about "broken" crew qualification system and sensors, but again, I don't think he was trying to be malicious. More likely just ignorance about the progress you had made (and continue to make!) with your mod. I just want you to know that I am a great fan of both your work and the work of GWX, so I would hate to have to choose between using your mod or GWX 2.0. Ideally, (and selfishly, I admit) I will be able to use both! In any event, you have to listen to your own intuition to decide what is the right thing to do. If working on your mod gives you enjoyment, go for it! But don't let what other people think (including myself) make that decision for you! __________________

12-11-07, 03:23 AM	#9
Subtype Zero Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 19,998 Leagues under the sea Posts: 262 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I appreciate your reply. No problem about forgetting the whole thing. Let's just concentrate on sinking them Brits! __________________

12-11-07, 06:59 AM	#12
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,994 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Well, I thought we could somehow meet in the middle regarding our differences of opinion and views on game balance. You once told me that we could work such things out. Your mod does indeed have arguably negative side-effects on GWX and it is not as simple as you would have users believe. Players want *everything* and it places us all in an impossible position. Just as you make tough decisions for your mod... we must do the same with ours. Some matters/mod requests surfaced so often that we had to address them publicly and truthfully. After dealing with tens of thousands of user support issues from installation to purple sub skins... have a little mercy. Whatever goes on on our private forums is our business. It is our 'safe' place to vent to avoid carrying so much angst here. I'd appreciate it if you would honor the promise you made. I guess you couldn't hear it as you are obviously quite angry and only seeing bits and pieces of my posts... so I'll say it one last time... Nvdrifter, no statement that I have EVER made concerning your modwork was driven by 'politics' or carried out with the intent to 'bash' your work. Take care Nvdrifter. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

12-10-07, 04:01 AM	#2
Janus XO Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 434 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Do the longer repair times work with GWX? I read that it "destroys" the crew efficiency model of GWX.

12-10-07, 12:10 PM	#6
Janus XO Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 434 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Oh. Personally I have never used GWX, but LRT I would not want to play without it! I really love the longer repair times, they are way more entertaining than the normal SHIII ones. However I play with the LRT for GWX, because I could not find any non-GWX LRT versions, are there any?

12-11-07, 07:11 AM	#15
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I usually close threads with a witty remark but I haven't had any coffee yet, so.... Thanks.