[REL] S3D - Silent 3ditor

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by skwasjer

...
I know what I have done, and why I have done it. Time for you to trust me.
...

Yes i do ...
It's my hardcore (hexedit) habit ... to have in 3DS Max the same sequences of parameters as in an original file ... it allows to make some changes in 3D models by simple mathematical methods ...

[Snaptrap]

I had another friend help me out with the terminology used in this game. It made the settings allot more clear. I got the effect I wanted.

The great thing about this editor is that it makes my life easier than direct Hex editing.

[keltos01]

opened the jyunsen B hull model, the sen toku as well, pasted the skin from the sen to the j B, exported the jb with no ill effect, imported it in lieu of the type 18 hull, tried to save and this appeared :

any idea ?

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by Anvart

It's my hardcore (hexedit) habit ... to have in 3DS Max the same sequences of parameters as in an original file ... it allows to make some changes in 3D models by simple mathematical methods ...

I see... It's hard to break a habit, I can understand that. Well, one thing you can do is still use the .obj files of Pack3D, and then just use the extra .uvw files from S3D. At least then you have the same data in Max. But it is some more work to do the exports. But you will still need S3D for import, in which case you are still at the mercy of my optimization code, unfortunately.


@all, as S3D evolves, it doesn't only become more complex for me to maintain, but obviously I also keep strugling keeping it as easy as possible to use for you. Some say it's very easy, but most of them have witnessed the development from day one. For newcomers, it IS still a complex tool even if it was for the game structure itself. You can potentially break the game easier with S3D than with a hex editor, because more people can play around with it, who would otherwise be scared away by a hex editor.

That said, I do intend to work on actual documentation in the future but my biggest problem is I am a developer, not a writer. And from personal experience, no developer should write documentation of their own software. They simply are too close to the product to be able to write good documentation. I am also no real modder, so for me it's hard to make examples as I don't have any real material to work with.

Still, I do intend to write more down. I am pretty sure there are even a couple of features or tricks most of you aren't even aware of. However, I also hope some of the more 'experienced' users can use some of their time to help others out by writing up some tutorials/basics, walkthroughs (for example import/export in the different 3D studio's, I've only covered Max myself), webcasts, etc. perhaps based on one of their own (mini)mods.

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by keltos01

opened the jyunsen B hull model, the sen toku as well, pasted the skin from the sen to the j B, exported the jb with no ill effect, imported it in lieu of the type 18 hull, tried to save and this appeared :

any idea ?

Hmm, 3 vertices doesn't seem right now does it? I wonder what went wrong... As per usual I will need the model files and the dat file to test it.

Hey keltos01, thanks for finding these bugs, you've reported most of them and help me make S3D better

[swdw]

Originally Posted by UBOAT234

All this only to encourage its implementation and sorry for my bad English

This always makes me smile.

Most Americans can't even speak or write a second language. I think you should be congratulated for putting your words in English. It may not be perfect english, but the effort you put into writing your thoughts in english deserves praise. Thank you for the time and effort

Skwasjer, although S3D is associated with several files, I have this problem. Clicking on the file directly (like a .sim file) causes S3D to open, but the file is not loaded into S3D. The files are correctly associated.

Is this a bug or just something you haven't implemented yet?

[keltos01]

the .dat file was the one in the IJN Jyunsen B beta 3.2 18 sen toku I put for download, it is the basic typ 18.dat,
the jyunsen B hull is found as well in my download page along with other stuff, I think the non textured one is there (japsubhull.obj) in a rar file.



I had this trying to re open my new jap tower, with the new 3d object of the Jyunsen B tower so i so that I could id the german tower parts and edit them out, woops !
Jyunsen B thread :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134119

[skwasjer]

Mikhayl, from the looks you have not (re)exported the 2nd uv map from Max. I see it still has 9171 uv mappings. All the other maps (diffuse, 3rd, 4th) now have the correct number: 6240. Since I don't have the original model I can't export it myself and test it but I know this is the cause of the CTD because S3D now basically writes illegal data.

I will make sure to catch this 'data error' on import with an error message in next releases...

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by keltos01

the .dat file was the one in the IJN Jyunsen B beta 3.2 18 sen toku I put for download, it is the basic typ 18.dat,
the jyunsen B hull is found as well in my download page along with other stuff, I think the non textured one is there (japsubhull.obj) in a rar file.



I had this trying to re open my new jap tower, with the new 3d object of the Jyunsen B tower so i so that I could id the german tower parts and edit them out, woops !
Jyunsen B thread :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134119

Please provide me with a direct link to the files that are directly related to the problem. I don't want a whole package containing an entire (mini)mod because I may be looking for problems in the wrong place. Also, you may have changed just one thing in one of those files, and by not uploading them and 'thinking' they are the same, I may be looking for a problem that's not there.

I am saying this because the last files I checked yesterday worked fine here.

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

If you need the original model you can pick the one in the .dat, it's the unmodified/working one.
I'm pretty sure that I exported that 2nd uv, anyway I retried in another way :

In S3D, I exported the working model again, and imported in 3dsmax. When I'm done with the import I have the unwrap modifier active and the 4th channel. So, to make sure I don't forget anything, I click "edit", select the objects I want to delete, and delete its UVs, then save as "uv4". Then switch to channel 3, "edit", select objects, delete UVs, save as uv3. Then same for uv2, so now I'm back to channel 1, select object, delete UVs. then I delete the unwrap modifier, "break vertices" on my "editable mesh" and finally delete the object, and export it.
When I import it in S3D I have this :

Now tell me if I'm being a pain, and I'll stick to the number crunching part

No pain, no gain.

Anyway, I see the problem a bit although I don't exactly know all the steps you did (wrong).

The process should be:

1. Import obj into Max.
2. Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 2, load uv2 file.
3. Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 3, load uv3 file.
4. Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 4, load uv4 file.
5. Optionally, collapse the modifiers.
6. Delete the geometry with an 'Edit Mesh' modifier.
7. Add ONE unwrap modifer, reuse it to save each channel seperately (2, 3, 4)
8. Export obj file.
9. Delete the last (temp) unwrap modifier

Note that you can't reuse the unwrap modifier to load all the uv channels. You are simply replacing the previously loaded data and end up with only the last one! I say this because your last 2 maps were identical, and default!

I replayed this for you, and it works
This package contains the model I exported from Max using above steps.

http://sh4.skwas.net/media/mikhayl_new.rar

PS: I didn't break the vertices, I just added an 'Edit mesh' modifier and selected the faces, and hit delete...
PS2: the new release its UV map preview function will help you detect problems. I used it here locally and immediately saw there were incorrect maps exported from Max.

[keltos01]

Add unwrap modifier, set to channel 2, load uv2 file.

how do you do that ??
I unwrap the modifiers, select the hull, click the material editor, paste the texture to the hull, and it doesn't even fit right...

[skwasjer]

My post was just a short version of the walkthrough I posted. There I explain how you add the modifiers.

This is the excerpt, notice the bold part:

1. To add extra UV-data to the model do the following steps, for EACH next map channel:
2. Select the imported model
3. Click the menu Modifiers > UV Coordinates > Unwrap UVW. A new 'Unwrap UVW' modifier is added to the modifier stack.
4. In the parameters of the new modifier, change the map channel to the index you are about to add. If you have previously exported -uv2, set map channel 2, etc.
   
   
5. After changing the map channel, you will be asked:
   
   
   
   Click 'Yes'
6. Now click the 'Load' button, just above the field where you changed the map channel. You can now select the .UVW file that you want to load into this map channel.

[keltos01]

Skwasjer, I got the same screen as I had with the conning tower when I tried to save the .dat, I loaded the 18.dat, selected the 18 3d model, imported my hull, clicked save : it says a lot of stuff when I try to save my dat file. I uploaded a rar with the original 18.dat, the corrupted one, the hull. obj and the mtl file.

http://www.mediafire.com/?x3wh4mfzg15

[skwasjer]

Keltos, the obj file is missing texture coordinates so it's bound not to work... Unfortunately, S3D doesn't check for this (yet) so you indeed run into a crash. I will fix this, but it doesn't solve your problem. The obj-file is still incorrect for the game. Using the files you provided I can't test anything further.

Please take a deep breath, and read my walkthrough again (I've added a link in my footer). It's a long read, but you probably don't follow it exactly (same as Mikhayl ). If you have disabled for instance the 'Export texture coordinates' in Max then you will be in trouble, and there are a few other things to keep in mind. It is a very tricky process so please check out all the screenshots I provided and make sure your settings are the same. Then follow the steps one at the time. Read each step a couple of times and make sure you understand it. If you don't, then ask specific questions about that in that thread.

Maybe I should do a video tutorial...

As far as texture mapping a model, I can't help you much on the 3dsMax front though. I know as much as I've said here out loud. I am not a 3D artist and know only so much about 3D software... So I hope you can get some help with this from some of the other folks around here. Keep the faith and keep trying!

PS: If you get the object rendered properly in 3dsMax, then send me the .MAX file, not .obj files. Then I can see if I myself can get the file properly exported from Max and imported in the game.



@all, I've come to the conclusion a couple of options in the dialogs are really not so useful and may complicate things or cause problems, so I will probably take them out soon to make it a bit easier (foolproof).

@Skwasjer

Here's a quick suggestion you may consider.
Using Mikhayl's flag tutorial as the example.

To do the single flag he deletes things one by one.
Time consumeing.

How about being able to hold the shift key down while dragging so you can select
multiples?

Shift + left Mouse button and drag selects all the thihgs you want to delete
or export.

I'm still faster with hex to do this sort of stuff!


Catch me if you can!