Gun Control thread (merged many) - Page 97

Hawk66 · 10-02-15, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

It's just venting. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible owners, and when these high profile shootings occur, we are upset because it's one more brick in the wall of ban. I've experienced too many things that are now outlawed because of the few who abuse their privileges and I don't want gun ownership to be added to that list as well.

The reality is you can't prevent all determined people from doing whatever evil scheme they dream up even in the most restrictive environments. I don't think there really is a solution, or if there is one, it's worse than the problem it's designed to correct.

Frankly, I do not think this is true....just have a look around the world and statistics and you will see that just tragedys are not evenly distributed. And I am not considering non-democratic countries.

Every society seems to have its irrational, beloved, thing. In Germany it's the crazy driving on the autobahn without speed limits. When you think rational about it, it makes no sense....
In the U.S. it's the gun.

Interestingly both topics have similar root causes. In both cases there is a big (commercial) lobby behind it, which has managed to emotionalize the topic and 'auto-spreading' the idea from generation to generation. Even the reaction if someone tries to question it, is often very similar: It's not to be discussed since I am free and this is my right...

Buddahaid · 10-02-15, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Err, what? Next time maybe watch the video I linked?
The video isn't about guns, it is showing how ridiculously stupid our media is these days, reporting about something they do not know and do not understand - yet making crap up "educating" people.

Maybe you need to google what 4Chan is to understand, not sure, but to me this is extremely cringe worthy.

Speaking of videos, here is Obama's statement regarding the shooting.
Think of him what you want, but it is hard to disagree with what he says... oh no what did I just do...

OK. Reset. I didn't watch the link so we are arguing from different standpoints......

Please Stand By.........

Oberon · 10-02-15, 05:42 AM

Turns out that the 4chan link was false anyway, it wasn't the same guy who posted on the board.

Anyway, I hear the response that restricting guns won't stop the people who want to do this kind of thing from doing it a lot, so let's examine that.

Obama made a comment back in June that the US was the only nation in the world where this kind of thing happens and happens so often. He was only half correct. Certainly other nations suffer from mass killings, and by mass killings I define this as incidents when more than 3-4 people are killed by one or more people. Putting aside terrorist incidents for a moment, if you look at figures, such as those posted by politifact:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nt-happen-oth/

You'll see that while the number per population may not put US that highly, nor per 100k...the frequency in which it happens far outweighs the other denominating factors.
In short, whilst other nations may have had more killings, the frequency in which they happen in the United States, to the extent where it is treated almost as norm by many of its populace, that is a factor that really does deserve examining. In fact, if one takes a mass shooting to mean that four or more people are shot, including the shooter, than the US has had more mass shootings than it has had days in this current year. (source: http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015 )
Now, outside of war-zones and failed states, I don't think there are any nations you can put a similar figure on, certainly none in the western world.
Why is this? Well, to try and find out the answer to this, I think that a comparison between the US and other westernised nations need to be made, and that comparison needs to look at the following:

1) Access to firearms and weaponry
2) Access to mental health care
3) Media reporting

Now, one can argue about the state of youth culture, but that's a problem that is hardly unique to the United States.

In all the furor we make about hunting down terrorists, all the money spent, all the fuss about the dangers of radical Islam and the possibility of a Muslim kid making a bomb...more people have died in America through shootings than have died through terrorism over the past decade.
That's not right, guys, and I know you don't need people from outside the country to tell you this, you all know this already...and yet here we are, on a frequent basis, having this same conversation. Would any other nation have let this carry on for as long as it has?

I've said my piece, and no doubt I'll get shat on for saying it, but please America...stop killing yourselves.

U505995 · 10-02-15, 08:27 AM

I support universal background checks and possibly mental health evaluation but completely banning firearms or further restricting what type of firearms we own is not the answer. Unlike the UK or Europe where most people have grown up not ever using a firearm in their life, the US has an immense gun culture. I grew up using my rifle to hunt for food, shooting for fun, and educating others on gun safety. Taking away legal gun owners right to bear arms because of a select few psychopaths who cannot control themselves is ridiculous.

Rockstar · 10-02-15, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I've said my piece, and no doubt I'll get shat on for saying it, but please America...stop killing yourselves.

Tell Ya what, I'll give up my firearms just as soon as you allow a migrant family from morrocco or syria occupancy in your home or backyard.

btw I'm a gun owner and an American and Im not killing myself.

Jimbuna · 10-02-15, 08:36 AM

10-02-15, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Tell Ya what, I'll give up my firearms just as soon as you allow a migrant family from morrocco or syria occupancy in your home or backyard.

Yeah, so related and on topic...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

btw I'm a gun owner and an American and Im not killing myself.

You knew exactly what and how he meant it.
You're just butthurt that some europoors criticize Murica.
How about not taking this personal, leaving nationalism aside and focus on the problem?
There is a problem, is there not?

Rockstar · 10-02-15, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon U-48

I support universal background checks and possibly mental health evaluation but completely banning firearms or further restricting what type of firearms we own is not the answer. Unlike the UK or Europe where most people have grown up not ever using a firearm in their life, the US has an immense gun culture. I grew up using my rifle to hunt for food, shooting for fun, and educating others on gun safety. Taking away legal gun owners right to bear arms because of a select few psychopaths who cannot control themselves is ridiculous.

I can agree with that.

I wash born here, an I wash raished here, and dad gum it, I am gonna die here, an no sidewindin' bushwackin', hornswagglin' cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter

Rockstar · 10-02-15, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Yeah, so related and on topic...

Point is, Talk is cheap.

Quote:

You knew exactly what and how he meant it.
You're just butthurt that some europoors criticize Murica.
How about not taking this personal, leaving nationalism aside and focus on the problem?
There is a problem, is there not?

No problem, no butthurt either, criticize all you want and have fun doing it. I just wanted to point out not all 316 million Americans are killing themselves. We all know how blanket statements like that are in poor taste and need to be pointed out.

Onkel Neal · 10-02-15, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Tell Ya what, I'll give up my firearms just as soon as you allow a migrant family from morrocco or syria occupancy in your home or backyard.
.

Don't say that! There are African/Middle Eastern migrants headed his way as we speak, don't make that promise.

Jimbuna · 10-02-15, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Don't say that! There are African/Middle Eastern migrants headed his way as we speak, don't make that promise.

Nice one

My attempt at injecting a little humour....

Hundreds of refugees, fleeing violence in their own country, arrived in the UK today.

On various flights from America.

Oberon · 10-02-15, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Tell Ya what, I'll give up my firearms just as soon as you allow a migrant family from morrocco or syria occupancy in your home or backyard.

btw I'm a gun owner and an American and Im not killing myself.

Ok.

My country is taking 20,000 refugees over the next five years, with many people lobbying for us to take more. We're putting money into improving the refugee camps in the nations surrounding Syria, in particular Lebanon.

What, exactly, has your nation done to reduce the number of mass shootings per year?

Oberon · 10-02-15, 10:18 AM

In better news, and before we tred down oft trodden paths.

This is Chris Mintz, a US army vet, was his sons birthday when the attack happened, he charged the shooter to help save others and took seven bullets in the upper back, left hand, abdomen and both legs.
Get better soon Mr Mintz and thank you, I hope you and your son can celebrate his birthday together soon.

U505995 · 10-02-15, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I can agree with that.

I wash born here, an I wash raished here, and dad gum it, I am gonna die here, an no sidewindin' bushwackin', hornswagglin' cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter

So because i'm a gun owner i'm a white trash, trailer dwelling redneck. Way to stereotype.

August · 10-02-15, 10:54 AM

Anyone looking for reasons should start with the killers own words:

"I have noticed that so many people like him (the Virginia news crew killer) are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight."

These monsters feed off each other and the media, eager for ratings and damn the consequences, are happy to provide the fodder.

10-02-15, 08:36 AM	#1446
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-02-15, 10:54 AM	#1455
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Anyone looking for reasons should start with the killers own words: "I have noticed that so many people like him (the Virginia news crew killer) are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight." These monsters feed off each other and the media, eager for ratings and damn the consequences, are happy to provide the fodder. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

10-02-15, 05:42 AM	#1443
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Turns out that the 4chan link was false anyway, it wasn't the same guy who posted on the board. Anyway, I hear the response that restricting guns won't stop the people who want to do this kind of thing from doing it a lot, so let's examine that. Obama made a comment back in June that the US was the only nation in the world where this kind of thing happens and happens so often. He was only half correct. Certainly other nations suffer from mass killings, and by mass killings I define this as incidents when more than 3-4 people are killed by one or more people. Putting aside terrorist incidents for a moment, if you look at figures, such as those posted by politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nt-happen-oth/ You'll see that while the number per population may not put US that highly, nor per 100k...the frequency in which it happens far outweighs the other denominating factors. In short, whilst other nations may have had more killings, the frequency in which they happen in the United States, to the extent where it is treated almost as norm by many of its populace, that is a factor that really does deserve examining. In fact, if one takes a mass shooting to mean that four or more people are shot, including the shooter, than the US has had more mass shootings than it has had days in this current year. (source: http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015 ) Now, outside of war-zones and failed states, I don't think there are any nations you can put a similar figure on, certainly none in the western world. Why is this? Well, to try and find out the answer to this, I think that a comparison between the US and other westernised nations need to be made, and that comparison needs to look at the following: 1) Access to firearms and weaponry 2) Access to mental health care 3) Media reporting Now, one can argue about the state of youth culture, but that's a problem that is hardly unique to the United States. In all the furor we make about hunting down terrorists, all the money spent, all the fuss about the dangers of radical Islam and the possibility of a Muslim kid making a bomb...more people have died in America through shootings than have died through terrorism over the past decade. That's not right, guys, and I know you don't need people from outside the country to tell you this, you all know this already...and yet here we are, on a frequent basis, having this same conversation. Would any other nation have let this carry on for as long as it has? I've said my piece, and no doubt I'll get shat on for saying it, but please America...stop killing yourselves.

10-02-15, 08:27 AM	#1444
U505995 Planesman Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wisconsin, the best state in the union. Posts: 191 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I support universal background checks and possibly mental health evaluation but completely banning firearms or further restricting what type of firearms we own is not the answer. Unlike the UK or Europe where most people have grown up not ever using a firearm in their life, the US has an immense gun culture. I grew up using my rifle to hunt for food, shooting for fun, and educating others on gun safety. Taking away legal gun owners right to bear arms because of a select few psychopaths who cannot control themselves is ridiculous.

10-02-15, 10:18 AM	#1453
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	In better news, and before we tred down oft trodden paths. This is Chris Mintz, a US army vet, was his sons birthday when the attack happened, he charged the shooter to help save others and took seven bullets in the upper back, left hand, abdomen and both legs. Get better soon Mr Mintz and thank you, I hope you and your son can celebrate his birthday together soon.