Patrolling Grids in SH5 like in GWX

[RushTheBus]

I'm sure this is silly, but are you able to patrol grids in SH5 similar to GWX? I was always kind of curious why we never saw a GWX-like setup in terms of how the grid system was modeled / utilizes and how convoys. It just seems bizarre to me that a game as old as SH3 had that capability and SH5 either doesn't or no one has figured out how to write it into the game. I appreciate the immense work that was don on OHII (i played it last year) but i think the freedom something like GWX offers really immerses you a bit more into the war itself.

I really was just curious, any insight for the sake of discussion is appreciated.

Rush

[Sailor Steve]

You single out one SH3 supermod. How is the grid system in that mod different from any of the others, or from stock SH3. I think you're giving credit to a mod team that properly belongs to the SH3 developers.

[RushTheBus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You single out one SH3 supermod. How is the grid system in that mod different from any of the others, or from stock SH3. I think you're giving credit to a mod team that properly belongs to the SH3 developers.

It seems like you completely misunderstood my questions / comment. I thought it was pretty clear, but i'll try and clarify further. My experience in SH3 is primarily with GWX (hence why i referenced it), but my question is modification / supermod agnostic. I'm simply curious why we haven't yet seen a more "free" form of game-play / campaign style (i.e. just patrol this grid) as opposed to the more scripted SH5 campaign. Is it not possible due to some technical limitation? Is it due to no one having interest?

That's all i was asking / curious about (seemed like an innocent question / comment, frankly), don't really think you needed to jump down my throat like that.

[Kumando]

If you install the Wolves of Steel supermod, there is a grid patrol system in place, you even have to use a special ruler with the grid markings to find out where the patrol grid is exactly in the map, its not placed gps style like in sh3.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by RushTheBus

It seems like you completely misunderstood my questions / comment.

I don't think so.

I thought it was pretty clear, but i'll try and clarify further. My experience in SH3 is primarily with GWX (hence why i referenced it), but my question is modification / supermod agnostic.

I thought that was the case. I only bring it up because you weren't around for the 'supermod wars' of several years ago. It was extremely ugly, even brutal at times, and there is still some bitterness floating around, and we try to keep from having one supermod praised above the others. If it's universal to SH3 we try to keep it that way so as not to relive those bad old days.

I'm simply curious why we haven't yet seen a more "free" form of game-play / campaign style (i.e. just patrol this grid) as opposed to the more scripted SH5 campaign. Is it not possible due to some technical limitation? Is it due to no one having interest?

I completely agree. SH2 had a totally scripted setup. Not even a campaign, just a series of missions linked together. When it was announced that SH3 would have a similar but expanded version of the same thing we staged a mutiny. Many members, both here and at the UBIsoft forums, flat-out stated that we would not buy SH3 unless it had a fully random campaign like the one in Aces Of The Deep. They took a poll just to find out how universal that feeling was. When they said that it would delay the release by six months, we said that was fine; we'd rather have it the way we wanted no matter how long it took. The devs then said they would give us a random campaign, and it would be so good that the next time someone offered a scripted campaign the players would all demand a dynamic random campaign "Just like the one in SH3." They didn't tell us what kind of campaign SH5 would have, and we accepted it. And now here you are, along with the rest of us, fulfilling the SH3 devs' promise.

That's all i was asking / curious about (seemed like an innocent question / comment, frankly), don't really think you needed to jump down my throat like that.

I've reread my comment and I don't see it as jumping down your throat at all. I hope I've explained myself to your satisfaction. Just so you know, GWX is my favorite as well, and probably always will be. There's nothing wrong with expressing a favorite. Everybody has theirs, and they are willing to say why. That's a good thing. There are many players for whom SH5 is the best subsim ever. That's also a good thing.

Sometimes it works the other way. People blame whatever mod they're using for some problem that arises. When that happens the modders themselves are the first ones to point out that it's a stock SH3 problem, and not their mod's fault.

My point was that if it's something only GWX does that sets it apart in your mind and makes it your favorite, say so. If, on the other hand, it's something that SH3 does with no help from any mod, then I urge people to leave the mods out of it. In the end it avoids a lot of confusion and trouble.

[Kumando]

Altough the campaign objectives in sh5 are scripted it never plays the same way twice, the ship encounters are completly random in my experience. I prefer the scripted campaign of sh5 it feels like you are really participating in the war unlike sh3 where you go to spot x and patrol for x hours only.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Kumando

Altough the campaign objectives in sh5 are scripted it never plays the same way twice, the ship encounters are completly random in my experience. I prefer the scripted campaign of sh5 it feels like you are really participating in the war unlike sh3 where you go to spot x and patrol for x hours only.

I feel just the opposite. The encounters may be random, but no commander was ever told to go to X grid and sink 70,000 tons of shipping. The '24' hours thing in SH3 was actually a holdover from the original scripting, removed before release. In real life you would be told to go to X grid and stay there, period. If you never saw an enemy ship you might request orders for a new grid and they might, or might not, assign one to you. AOD had this perfect back in 1994. SH4 comes a lot closer. SH5? Not at all. Of course in SH5 you don't have to do exactly what you're told, but that's still not accurate.

Also SH3 now offers more than 100 different merchant types to sink. After five years SH5 is still stuck with the same 10 or so.

[Kumando]

In reality with the WOS megamod, you dont even have the tonnage bar anymore, and the OH2 removed the sink xxx ton of merchant shipping, you also receive a patrol grid so i think it plays out quite similiar to what you describe in sh3.

[Sailor Steve]

That's quite good to hear. As I've said many times before, SH5 has many supporters for whom it is the best ever. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm not behind it. A huge amount of work has been done making it playable, and I'm still hoping someone will figure out a way to fix the things I think it still lacks. Then again, I feel that way about SH4 too. There is something here for everybody's taste, and all we can do is enjoy what we can and hope for further future improvements.

[RushTheBus]

Interesting, i may have to take a second look at it (its been a year since I've played 5). That said, i can't help but wonder if its fundamentally flawed (ie: at some very basic form deep down in the way it was designed in terms of programming, etc). The only thing that has kept that game alive (IMO) is the community there - especially the guys who fixed the majority of some of the biggest issues.

I'm not sure what it was for me - it very well could have been the disastrous time i had modding. I just don't feel as thought i have the same freedom or that the game is as dynamic as what SH3's super mods have to offer.

Hopefully in the near future we see something substantial beyond what we have today in terms of a major overhaul with a new story or more realistic narrative.

I do appreciate the replies and discussion.

[Sandman_28054]

I think I understand what you meant.

In SH3, you were given a grid (BE33) to patrol for 24 hrs. The game itself had the grid map laid out. You knew exactly where to go.

SH5, (I'm playing OH II) gives you a mission, and it places a spot on the map for youi to go.

Many times in the game however, contact reports are coming in with grid references (i.e.: AM8571 for example). All SH5 gives are longitude and latitude coordinates on the map.

It would be nice, although not necessary if there was a "grid map" coded/scripted whatever you want to call it, into the game.

I think that is the general statement being said.

[kevinsue]

Originally Posted by Sandman_28054

I think I understand what you meant.

In SH3, you were given a grid (BE33) to patrol for 24 hrs. The game itself had the grid map laid out. You knew exactly where to go.

SH5, (I'm playing OH II) gives you a mission, and it places a spot on the map for youi to go.

Many times in the game however, contact reports are coming in with grid references (i.e.: AM8571 for example). All SH5 gives are longitude and latitude coordinates on the map.

It would be nice, although not necessary if there was a "grid map" coded/scripted whatever you want to call it, into the game.

I think that is the general statement being said.

There are a number of mods available that bring the various components of the grid reference system to SH5. Supermods such as "The Wolves of Steel" have the grid system plus many other features implemented within the mod.

[Sandman_28054]

Originally Posted by kevinsue

There are a number of mods available that bring the various components of the grid reference system to SH5. Supermods such as "The Wolves of Steel" have the grid system plus many other features implemented within the mod.

Thank you. And I am aware of that also.

But in my case, I'm at my limit on free space on my hd.

My "work around" was since I have the original SH3 map that came with the game, it shows grids so I adjust accordingly.

Perhaps someday when I can afford a new computer, I'll d/l "Wolves of Steel", but till then, I'm stuck with "Open Horizons II".