The most prestigious air to air kill in history?

TLAM Strike · 08-23-11, 07:42 PM

Quote:

A NATO warplane on Monday shot down a Scud missile fired from Sirte...

Wait, what?

What was this pilot flying? An X-15!

Anyone know where the X-37Bs are?

Source

Stealhead · 08-23-11, 08:07 PM

Way too little information there how is that even possible honestly? Unless maybe the plane fired an air to ground munition just as the Scud launched because I don't see other wise this would really be possible a Scud would be far to fast I'd think for a missile the Patriots can hit something coming down to earth but that is using a lot more ability than an aircraft would have.

I am thinking an ATG munition was used and just so happened that the Scud was just launching when hit so they considered it an air to air kill.Or it was just perfect timing and the ac was at the right place at the right time and did fire and got a hit.

Anthony W. · 08-23-11, 08:16 PM

Early in the acceleration stage of the launch, I'm sure a sharp pilot could get lucky.

In Vietnam you could "out run" a SAM by going into a semi parabolic pattern at full power

CaptainHaplo · 08-23-11, 08:39 PM

This is not nearly as difficult as it is thought to be. Your dealing with a ballistic missile here. Its not like a cruise missile where its going flat out horizontally. The only struggle is if the shooter acquires the target from the rear quadrant. Otherwise, its not difficult depending on the weapon used.

The issue is really one of math - and one that us subsimmers use alot when we play. Target is moving a course X, speed Y. It will be at a certain point at a certain moment in time. Make your shot hit (or get close enough to FOD out) the target. 20 years ago the Patriot system proved that computers could pull off this trick at extreme speeds in three dimensions. Now, 2 decades later, increases in technology (not just computer power) has allowed other weapons to do the same.

You only have to have a weapon that moves faster than your target if your chasing it.... if you have a good angle (and remember - the Scud-C is designed to follow a ballistic trajectory) then the shot is high percentage.

What goes up, comes down - and in a predictable way. Your shot can move at a relatively slow 1.5 Mach against a Mach 5 target if your ahead (or - from another perspective - below) your target and close enough to its course.....

Think about it... 20 years is a long time in weapons tech....

I-25 · 08-24-11, 12:41 AM

Lets not forget that a B-24 Rear gunner shot down a V2 during its acceleration stage in WWII

Jimbuna · 08-24-11, 05:52 AM

Would like to see more detailed information but I would have thought it possible, especially if it was during the early launch phase.

razark · 08-24-11, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-25

Lets not forget that a B-24 Rear gunner shot down a V2 during its acceleration stage in WWII

You have a source for that? I'd like to read that story.

Jimbuna · 08-24-11, 06:35 AM

For my money I don't think you can beat the feat of the WWII fighter pilots who physically tipped the wings/fins of the V-1 rockets...up real close and personal like.

Osmium Steele · 08-24-11, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

You have a source for that? I'd like to read that story.

Quote:

About 80% of them reached their targets, with just a

single missile being shot down – by a .50-inch machine gun in an American
Liberator bomber returning from a raid over Germany, which overflew a
V-2 launch site in the Hague just when a missile lifted off.

SOURCE

Oberon · 08-24-11, 08:11 AM

Well, that's the ABM program out the window then, Congress will just ask the Airforce to be the new ballistic missile shield to save money.

Rockstar · 08-24-11, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

For my money I don't think you can beat the feat of the WWII fighter pilots who physically tipped the wings/fins of the V-1 rockets...up real close and personal like.

I was thinking the same thing.

razark · 08-24-11, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osmium Steele

SOURCE

Thank you.

Osmium Steele · 08-24-11, 08:18 AM

Most welcome.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-24-11, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I was thinking the same thing.

Me too. I would assume this to be a bit risky tactic. Do anyone know did there happen any mishaps when doing this?

MH · 08-24-11, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Me too. I would assume this to be a bit risky tactic. Do anyone know did there happen any mishaps when doing this?

As far as i can remember from reading some books it sometimes ended with shattered wing tips of a fighter plane when V1 giro kicked in to stabilize the flight.
The pilot had to flip the wing beyond the correction point.
This tactics was used to avoid shooting on V1 which occasionally exploded in mid air.

08-23-11, 08:16 PM	#3
Anthony W. Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 850 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Early in the acceleration stage of the launch, I'm sure a sharp pilot could get lucky. In Vietnam you could "out run" a SAM by going into a semi parabolic pattern at full power __________________ Sunken Mustangs Proud Ford Mustang owner "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" - Admiral David Farragut Run silent - run deep - keep the baffles clear - targets front and center. Private pilot and history buff

08-23-11, 08:39 PM	#4
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	This is not nearly as difficult as it is thought to be. Your dealing with a ballistic missile here. Its not like a cruise missile where its going flat out horizontally. The only struggle is if the shooter acquires the target from the rear quadrant. Otherwise, its not difficult depending on the weapon used. The issue is really one of math - and one that us subsimmers use alot when we play. Target is moving a course X, speed Y. It will be at a certain point at a certain moment in time. Make your shot hit (or get close enough to FOD out) the target. 20 years ago the Patriot system proved that computers could pull off this trick at extreme speeds in three dimensions. Now, 2 decades later, increases in technology (not just computer power) has allowed other weapons to do the same. You only have to have a weapon that moves faster than your target if your chasing it.... if you have a good angle (and remember - the Scud-C is designed to follow a ballistic trajectory) then the shot is high percentage. What goes up, comes down - and in a predictable way. Your shot can move at a relatively slow 1.5 Mach against a Mach 5 target if your ahead (or - from another perspective - below) your target and close enough to its course..... Think about it... 20 years is a long time in weapons tech.... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

08-24-11, 05:52 AM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,481 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Would like to see more detailed information but I would have thought it possible, especially if it was during the early launch phase. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-24-11, 06:35 AM	#8
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,481 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	For my money I don't think you can beat the feat of the WWII fighter pilots who physically tipped the wings/fins of the V-1 rockets...up real close and personal like. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-24-11, 08:18 AM	#13
Osmium Steele Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upper midwest USA Posts: 1,101 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Most welcome. __________________ In the month of July of the year 1348, between the feasts of St. Benedict and of St. Swithin, a strange thing came upon England... My U297 build thread

08-23-11, 08:07 PM	#2
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Way too little information there how is that even possible honestly? Unless maybe the plane fired an air to ground munition just as the Scud launched because I don't see other wise this would really be possible a Scud would be far to fast I'd think for a missile the Patriots can hit something coming down to earth but that is using a lot more ability than an aircraft would have. I am thinking an ATG munition was used and just so happened that the Scud was just launching when hit so they considered it an air to air kill.Or it was just perfect timing and the ac was at the right place at the right time and did fire and got a hit.

08-24-11, 12:41 AM	#5
I-25 Commodore Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 629 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	Lets not forget that a B-24 Rear gunner shot down a V2 during its acceleration stage in WWII

08-24-11, 08:11 AM	#10
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Well, that's the ABM program out the window then, Congress will just ask the Airforce to be the new ballistic missile shield to save money.