Map suggestion

[andqui]

For SH5, please, please, please make the map a round globe, like in fs9 and fsx, rather than a projection, so Greenland is not the size of the rest of North America combined. Both sh3 and sh4 use a projection for the map, which means at latitudes away from the equator, distances are very exaggerated, in some cases grossly so at the extremes like the norwegian coast. I would by this game if that was the only improvement.

[GoldenRivet]

I have been a big proponent of this "spherical world" idea for about as long as SH3 has been out.

i think it is a great idea, and is one of the "must have" environmental corrections for SH5.

without the spherical world environment, "realistic" navigation becomes impossible and U-boat and surface ship ranges must be tweaked to astronomical values in order to sail a relatively short distance.

With spherical world, navigation by the stars / sun etc becomes highly accurate. and the real world distances between point A and point B also shorten to realistic lengths.

[Schultz]

Now comes a tricky part , who would put a globe in a U-Boat, you are right its more accurate, but even the ground troops used maps and charts, and in my opinion its more realistic with the maps and charts.

P.S:Maybe they should put a G.P.S in the U-boat its far easier then charts and maps (just jocking)

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by infernos

Now comes a tricky part , who would put a globe in a U-Boat, you are right its more accurate, but even the ground troops used maps and charts, and in my opinion its more realistic with the maps and charts.

P.S:Maybe they should put a G.P.S in the U-boat its far easier then charts and maps (just jocking)

your a pretty smart guy apparently

dont you think that nautical charts correct for the curvature of the earth?

nautical and aeronautical charts MUST correct for curvature as a rule.

if you get nautical charts and connect them end to end while tacking them to a wall you will notice that they form an arc... they are not straight.

eventually... all of the given charts for a given latitude set - given a tall enough wall to tack them to, would form a complete circle.

see this image.

The aeronautical charts of the USA




each square represents a different chart.

notic how they follow curvature?

the curvature is less pronounced at the equator and more pronounced at the poles.

notice the greater curvature of canadian charts as you near the polar regions




even wider zoom



thats the difference betweem "MAPS" and "CHARTS"

Maps are typically Mercator_projections however charts follow the earths curvature as illustrated above.

the flaw with SH3 and SH4 is that not only was the "earth" a Mercator projection of itself, but so were all of the maps in game.

this means that the distance from Brest france to New York is nearly TWICE the actual distance in real life.

by using "charts" and a spherical world... the distances in SH5 would be true to real life, as would all of the shore lines and continental sizes, expanses of the oceans etc.

and Greenland wouldnt be as big as all of asia (in reality its only a fraction of the size which it appears to be in game)

this is something which requires critical and immediate correction for any "Simulation" series which is to be taken seriously

[Ilpalazzo]

I would love this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I can't help but wonder why they haven't done it in the first place? Just not that important?

[Rip]

Now it makes more sense why the Chief Quartermaster on my boat used to get so mad when guys called his charts, maps.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

thats the difference betweem "MAPS" and "CHARTS"

Maps are typically Mercator_projections however charts follow the earths curvature as illustrated above.

the flaw with SH3 and SH4 is that not only was the "earth" a Mercator projection of itself, but so were all of the maps in game.

this means that the distance from Brest france to New York is nearly TWICE the actual distance in real life.

by using "charts" and a spherical world... the distances in SH5 would be true to real life, as would all of the shore lines and continental sizes, expanses of the oceans etc.

and Greenland wouldnt be as big as all of asia (in reality its only a fraction of the size which it appears to be in game)

this is something which requires critical and immediate correction for any "Simulation" series which is to be taken seriously

I think a combination of both would be best. Make the game world spherical, but keep the 2D navigation maps as they are. How would you want to set an accurate course using an orthographic or winkel projection? You can't. The mercator projection at least shows a true compass course, which makes it IMO the only useable projection for small scale nav maps.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

I think a combination of both would be best. Make the game world spherical, but keep the 2D navigation maps as they are. How would you want to set an accurate course using an orthographic or winkel projection? You can't. The mercator projection at least shows a true compass course, which makes it IMO the only useable projection for small scale nav maps.

to the contrary, you would have to use a plotter, then correct for any magnetic variation of the magnetic field of the earth, then for any compass error of the boat.

its a basic mathmatic equation of (A plus or minus B, plus or minus C equals D)

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by andqui

For SH5, please, please, please make the map a round globe, like in fs9 and fsx

FSX and FS9 in common with all previous versions will not let you fly directly over the north pole because it is not a spherical world environment

[prowler3]

Originally Posted by Navarre

FSX and FS9 in common with all previous versions will not let you fly directly over the north pole because it is not a spherical world environment

But that is the only area where the problem occurs...everywhere else the World in FS is round. You fly using Great Circle navigation. Look at any flight plan in FSnavigator or FScommander rendered on the optional "flat map"...it's a big curve!

[Seeadler]

According to a dev-answer on the german ubi-forum, the earth is again a cylindrical projection. They have tried other projections, which used a real globe, but the barriers to usability, freedom and clarity were just too big to develop this further. There were also some technical difficulties which arised in connection with other geographic projections.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Seeadler

According to a dev-answer on the german ubi-forum, the earth is again a cylindrical projection. They have tried other projections, which used a real globe, but the barriers to usability, freedom and clarity were just too big to develop this further. There were also some technical difficulties which arised in connection with other geographic projections.

Unfortunate

understandable

but unfortunate

[looney]

Somethin for SH6 then

maybe have different maps to navigate on.. so you have to change them during your mission.

[don1reed]

I must add my voice to those who desire SH5 to include an accurate chart and celestial firmament for the years 1939-1945.

As all navigators know, real progress over/under/on sea during WWII was conducted on paper, using real “tools”. All through SH3 and SH4 I was content to use Stellarium and Phython to obtain my Line of Position off screen on real paper, using dividers, compass, parallel rule, and protractor and making my own charts; and for the last two years have been playing TC x1. I’ve been taking my dawn, forenoon, noon, afternoon, evening twilight sights to get my boat around the F5 screen. I also have a ton of recycled paper to prove it.

My accuracy varied with the weather, sleepy helmsman and my own mistakes converting game time to UTC (GMT). Many times my position was unknown due to overcast skies, but through it all, it was great immersion. It was one of the reasons I enlisted, (bought the game).

I’m one of those players, now closer to 70 than to 60, who will admit the thing that would pinch my cheeks is an accurate sextant tool, like the one featured in Virtual Sailor-7, to compliment whatever is doable for the Devs.

[fireship4]

Here is the actual quote from the Q&A:

Will the navigation map handle the earth as a cylinder like in SH3?

Yes. Although not geographically correct, the cylindrical view is the easiest to understand and use of all cartographical projections, especially if we consider the possibility that the player could roam all the seas as he / she wishes. We investigated other projections as well, using a globe or specific maps of several locations (like they did in reality) but the drawbacks in terms of usability, freedom and understanding were too big to consider them further. Also, there is a number of technical problems associated to other geographical projections, which we chose not to tackle for now.

Will someone explain to me the impact of a cylindrical map as opposed to a flat one?

UPDATE: Also, If they dont have a globe, and its possible to mod the map (but not change it's shaper) maybe some team can stretch the land masses in the right way so as the effect would be the same? Would that work? Like taking the surface of a globe and placing it flat?

UPDATE 2: So the nav map (and world itelf as im proposing) would look like this:



From the above quote this image below may be what the team are doing currently:




I don't know... the cylinder looks an ok solution now that i see it, but if the in-game world will still be flat still (just with the landmasses altered) why not use the first diagram I posted?. Or is that what we've been asking for/talking about all along? A flat world that works like the real thing? I thought we were talking about wanting a real 3D globe up to now, one where you would have real lines of sight to ships partially over the horizon and was only projected flat for the nav. map.