"Nightclub" and other static immersion

JScones · 08-19-09, 03:53 AM

I thought I'd post this here lest it be lost among the 4,658,354 requests for wolfpacks (seriously guys, don't you think the devs have the hint on this by now?).

Anyway, one of my fondest memories of Aces Of The Deep was the Nightclub feature; a simple feature that really did no more than "connect" the Kaleun to the virtual world around them. Seems I was not alone, as it was a frequent request for inclusion into SH3 Commander.

From an ROI perspective, I think the 100 or so lines of code needed to integrate the feature into SH5 would be a very small investment for such a great return.

Likewise, I think a little more fanfare when the player is awarded a medal/promotion would cost little (even if just a screen with a pic of Doenitz giving "virtual you" the award). I remember Panzer Commander had a basic static screen with "congratulatory" text , but again, as demonstrated by my fond recollection so many years later, it was an endearing feature of the sim. Heck, remember any Microprose flight sim from the 1980's? You were *always* awarded medals or promotions; they didn't just "appear" in your medal box ala SH3.

While I'm on a role, another, perhaps more optimistic, request that a number of SH3 Commander users had was a "Meeting with Doenitz/BdU". At this meeting the player would have their last patrol reviewed by Onkel Karl (perhaps upon his summons) as well as being updated on the progress of the war from their boss's perspective. This could include info on the latest updates on other Commanders, pending equipment upgrades and introductions, intel on Allied ASW tactics and on areas of operations.

This "area" could become a knowledge base prepping the player for events to come. And from a dev perspective, it could simply draw upon the data that is already stored within the game (ie equipment upgrade dates). Onkel Karl's "performance appraisal" could be based on a number of very simple moddable business rules in conjunction with some patrol stats (ie number of enemy and friendly hits, misses, kills etc).

And the feature could be tied into the Nightclub...for example, Doenitz gives you the "dry" account of Prien's Scapa Flow achievement, and when you visit the Nightclub afterwards you get Prien's, or even a third party's, more colourful exaggerated account.

These are a few very simple features that, if previous feedback is any indication, would be greatly appreciated.

Easy_Eight65 · 08-19-09, 04:10 AM

all really good suggestions for static immersion -- perhaps even some voice-over acting for the player promotions, awards ala the very first Silent Hunter...loved the fanfare aspect of that game.

...Voice-acted Reprimands as well maybe. (Bdu: "Be more agressive!") / dismissed or relieved from command, etc.

henriksultan · 08-19-09, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

requests for wolfpacks

Thats a very good idea, first time I heard of it

All the small things to make the world alive when playing is a great immersion giver and would be nice to have.

Hunter · 08-19-09, 05:35 AM

+1 War is the boys' game

.

coronas · 08-19-09, 06:12 AM

@JScones:
You has said it, Sir! Immersion is all. I remember old SH and AotD features like newspapers with news about your sub and war, nighclub, messages with congratulations from BdU, etc.
These little things make the sense.

Sailor Steve · 08-19-09, 10:25 AM

Completely agree! Not only did Aces have newspapers announcing your successes - and your loss - but its companion game Red Baron included film clips of some higher-up hanging medals on you. SH1 had that wonderful "Attention to orders!" announcement every time you got an award (which was way too often, but that's a different complaint).

After seeing what they can do inside the sub now, I have to ask how hard it would be to have an animated nightclub with all the news and gossip recorded for you to hear.

Jimbuna · 08-19-09, 10:30 AM

An animated night club would be an excellent addition.....similarly the newspaper announcements.

Hunter · 08-19-09, 02:21 PM

Quote:

An animated night club would be an excellent addition.....similarly the newspaper announcements.

Hm, good idea. I have a collection of Deutsche Wochenschau shows, which I can whach between patrols for immersion and timeline context.

SteamWake · 08-19-09, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

An animated night club would be an excellent addition....

Yea you should be able to get drunk, and get in a brawl, spray seltzer water on the entertainment and shoot up the place !

Oh and 'fireboat' drills too ! :rotfl:

Jimbuna · 08-19-09, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Yea you should be able to get drunk, and get in a brawl, spray seltzer water on the entertainment and shoot up the place !

Oh and 'fireboat' drills too ! :rotfl:

Just keep out of the john....it's full of puke

AVGWarhawk · 08-19-09, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Yea you should be able to get drunk, and get in a brawl, spray seltzer water on the entertainment and shoot up the place !

Oh and 'fireboat' drills too ! :rotfl:

You do not need the SH series do to that.

Brag · 08-19-09, 03:52 PM

The museum can go, it took a lot of memory and did nothing more for the game that the recognition manual did.

GoldenRivet · 08-19-09, 04:04 PM

Im in complete agreement over the night club / officers club / sub pens issue here.

we should be able to navigate around all of the following in first person

sub pen
officer's club
port quarters
night club
house of ill repute?

of course these should all be modeled differently depending on which port your in.

for example the officers club or night club in Brest is different from the one in Lorient

the port quarters in Wilhelmshaven would look different than the one in Kiel

you should be able to complete the following tasks in each location

sub pen - inspect the boat visually to some extent. oversee the men loading provisions and armament prior to a patrol, and watch dock workers repairing or making modifications to the boat. AND at the start of a patrol when you are ready to leave port, the crew will line up on the deck for inspection awaiting dismissal to harbor stations.

Officer's Club - Officers only, drinking beer, liquor and wine, speaking to fellow commanders about the latest rumors, and what they have seen on recent patrols.

Port quarters - not much you can do here... this is the personal space for the commander while on dry land. keep a journal? read the latest news papers? listen to the gramophone and select which records will be available to you on the next cruise?

night club - interact with the sailors and petty officers of the crew here, hear their complaints, compliments, back story etc

house of ill repute - well... do the math.

Hunter · 08-19-09, 05:05 PM

Extending this idea I would vote for more autentic shore cities with some places to visit or even to drive by car?! (Just finished to play Mafia)

Stealth Hunter · 08-19-09, 05:43 PM

Personally I approve of this idea. I mean, Scones has a valid point. The last time we had a game with this type of immersion (but not level) was in the '90s (putting aside the modifications made for ones like Red Baron 3D, Silent Hunter III, you get the point).

And I'm also fairly certain it wouldn't be that difficult to do. If third-party modders who aren't getting paid and are working with generally mediocre software can pull something that great up in a matter of a few months, then surely to god such a large, powerful, and sophisticated company like Ubisoft could do it. Yeah, they'd need voice actors and more animations and a bunch of other complicated stuff, but like I said, it's not like they haven't got the resources to do it. Far from it, actually. They're probably one of the best-equipped game developing companies in the market.

But I doubt they will. As I said and have others have said the last time somebody official did something like a cinematic-interactive system for a game for rewards or just for immersion was well over 10 years ago. Modders have done a great job, but there are some things that are just beyond their capabilities- that take too much time and are too difficult for even the best ones to do.

I never really have understood why more people don't make their games more realistic and immersive with features like this. Maybe it's because of a lack of resources, maybe because they don't want to spend more money on what the players want... who can say but them.

Still, I'll probably be picking this up. Hopefully, it's not as big of a disappointment as SH4 was upon launch. If they have to delay it, then so be it. I won't be happy about it, and I know plenty of other people won't be either, but so long as the results are great in the end, that won't influx my opinion a bit afterwards.

Perhaps one day we'll see a game so immersive that you can do just about anything imaginable, like be a uboat captain but also dock and walk around on land, chat with guards, drive/ride in a car with some pals to the bar before getting completely s***faced. There have been people before who have tried it, but have not been able to deliver. Perhaps part of the problem is that people always want more. Unfortunately, that probably won't happen for a long, LONG time.

08-19-09, 03:53 AM	#1
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	"Nightclub" and other static immersion I thought I'd post this here lest it be lost among the 4,658,354 requests for wolfpacks (seriously guys, don't you think the devs have the hint on this by now?). Anyway, one of my fondest memories of Aces Of The Deep was the Nightclub feature; a simple feature that really did no more than "connect" the Kaleun to the virtual world around them. Seems I was not alone, as it was a frequent request for inclusion into SH3 Commander. From an ROI perspective, I think the 100 or so lines of code needed to integrate the feature into SH5 would be a very small investment for such a great return. Likewise, I think a little more fanfare when the player is awarded a medal/promotion would cost little (even if just a screen with a pic of Doenitz giving "virtual you" the award). I remember Panzer Commander had a basic static screen with "congratulatory" text , but again, as demonstrated by my fond recollection so many years later, it was an endearing feature of the sim. Heck, remember any Microprose flight sim from the 1980's? You were always awarded medals or promotions; they didn't just "appear" in your medal box ala SH3. While I'm on a role, another, perhaps more optimistic, request that a number of SH3 Commander users had was a "Meeting with Doenitz/BdU". At this meeting the player would have their last patrol reviewed by Onkel Karl (perhaps upon his summons) as well as being updated on the progress of the war from their boss's perspective. This could include info on the latest updates on other Commanders, pending equipment upgrades and introductions, intel on Allied ASW tactics and on areas of operations. This "area" could become a knowledge base prepping the player for events to come. And from a dev perspective, it could simply draw upon the data that is already stored within the game (ie equipment upgrade dates). Onkel Karl's "performance appraisal" could be based on a number of very simple moddable business rules in conjunction with some patrol stats (ie number of enemy and friendly hits, misses, kills etc). And the feature could be tied into the Nightclub...for example, Doenitz gives you the "dry" account of Prien's Scapa Flow achievement, and when you visit the Nightclub afterwards you get Prien's, or even a third party's, more colourful exaggerated account. These are a few very simple features that, if previous feedback is any indication, would be greatly appreciated.

08-19-09, 04:10 AM	#2
Easy_Eight65 Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New York City, USA Posts: 105 Downloads: 323 Uploads: 0	"Nightclub" and other static immersion all really good suggestions for static immersion -- perhaps even some voice-over acting for the player promotions, awards ala the very first Silent Hunter...loved the fanfare aspect of that game. ...Voice-acted Reprimands as well maybe. (Bdu: "Be more agressive!") / dismissed or relieved from command, etc. __________________ "You may fire when ready, Gridley." --Commodore George Dewey

08-19-09, 06:12 AM	#5
coronas Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asturias, España Posts: 1,168 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	@JScones: You has said it, Sir! Immersion is all. I remember old SH and AotD features like newspapers with news about your sub and war, nighclub, messages with congratulations from BdU, etc. These little things make the sense. __________________

08-19-09, 10:25 AM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Completely agree! Not only did Aces have newspapers announcing your successes - and your loss - but its companion game Red Baron included film clips of some higher-up hanging medals on you. SH1 had that wonderful "Attention to orders!" announcement every time you got an award (which was way too often, but that's a different complaint). After seeing what they can do inside the sub now, I have to ask how hard it would be to have an animated nightclub with all the news and gossip recorded for you to hear. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-19-09, 10:30 AM	#7
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	An animated night club would be an excellent addition.....similarly the newspaper announcements. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-19-09, 05:35 AM	#4
Hunter Commander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: St.Petersburg, Russia Posts: 474 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 0	+1 War is the boys' game .

08-19-09, 03:52 PM	#12
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The museum can go, it took a lot of memory and did nothing more for the game that the recognition manual did. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

08-19-09, 04:04 PM	#13
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Im in complete agreement over the night club / officers club / sub pens issue here. we should be able to navigate around all of the following in first person sub pen officer's club port quarters night club house of ill repute? of course these should all be modeled differently depending on which port your in. for example the officers club or night club in Brest is different from the one in Lorient the port quarters in Wilhelmshaven would look different than the one in Kiel you should be able to complete the following tasks in each location sub pen - inspect the boat visually to some extent. oversee the men loading provisions and armament prior to a patrol, and watch dock workers repairing or making modifications to the boat. AND at the start of a patrol when you are ready to leave port, the crew will line up on the deck for inspection awaiting dismissal to harbor stations. Officer's Club - Officers only, drinking beer, liquor and wine, speaking to fellow commanders about the latest rumors, and what they have seen on recent patrols. Port quarters - not much you can do here... this is the personal space for the commander while on dry land. keep a journal? read the latest news papers? listen to the gramophone and select which records will be available to you on the next cruise? night club - interact with the sailors and petty officers of the crew here, hear their complaints, compliments, back story etc house of ill repute - well... do the math. __________________

08-19-09, 05:05 PM	#14
Hunter Commander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: St.Petersburg, Russia Posts: 474 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 0	Extending this idea I would vote for more autentic shore cities with some places to visit or even to drive by car?! (Just finished to play Mafia)

08-19-09, 05:43 PM	#15
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Personally I approve of this idea. I mean, Scones has a valid point. The last time we had a game with this type of immersion (but not level) was in the '90s (putting aside the modifications made for ones like Red Baron 3D, Silent Hunter III, you get the point). And I'm also fairly certain it wouldn't be that difficult to do. If third-party modders who aren't getting paid and are working with generally mediocre software can pull something that great up in a matter of a few months, then surely to god such a large, powerful, and sophisticated company like Ubisoft could do it. Yeah, they'd need voice actors and more animations and a bunch of other complicated stuff, but like I said, it's not like they haven't got the resources to do it. Far from it, actually. They're probably one of the best-equipped game developing companies in the market. But I doubt they will. As I said and have others have said the last time somebody official did something like a cinematic-interactive system for a game for rewards or just for immersion was well over 10 years ago. Modders have done a great job, but there are some things that are just beyond their capabilities- that take too much time and are too difficult for even the best ones to do. I never really have understood why more people don't make their games more realistic and immersive with features like this. Maybe it's because of a lack of resources, maybe because they don't want to spend more money on what the players want... who can say but them. Still, I'll probably be picking this up. Hopefully, it's not as big of a disappointment as SH4 was upon launch. If they have to delay it, then so be it. I won't be happy about it, and I know plenty of other people won't be either, but so long as the results are great in the end, that won't influx my opinion a bit afterwards. Perhaps one day we'll see a game so immersive that you can do just about anything imaginable, like be a uboat captain but also dock and walk around on land, chat with guards, drive/ride in a car with some pals to the bar before getting completely s***faced. There have been people before who have tried it, but have not been able to deliver. Perhaps part of the problem is that people always want more. Unfortunately, that probably won't happen for a long, LONG time.