Palm guns

[Skybird]

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these. He may shoot the postman, etc.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Somehow, I doubt that senior citizens inadvertently shooting innocents with these weapons will ever be a problem, if, in fact, it ever happens.

Certainly, it could help disabled or elderly people defend themselves. That seems legitimate to me, since they are easy targets for armed robberies and the like.

Not that any of that matters, since the right to bear arms is expressly reserved to the people, and this is a U.S. company.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these. He may shoot the postman, etc.

As a resident of a wheelchair, I can tell you that the palm gun would certainly be a lot easier to use than a typical handgun and a thousand time more concealable. Handling a normal gun is no problem, but handling it fast enough while confined to a chair might be. And shooting the postman is no problem because he moves too slowly:rotfl:

[August]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

As a resident of a wheelchair, I can tell you that the palm gun would certainly be a lot easier to use than a typical handgun and a thousand time more concealable. Handling a normal gun is no problem, but handling it fast enough while confined to a chair might be. And shooting the postman is no problem because he moves too slowly:rotfl:

Ain't it lovely how people without a physical handicap like to tell those who do have one what they need?

[Skybird]

I think I told this story before, a year ago or so, but however... It is a true story. Until some time ago, I worked in a department store. There were several detectives, one of them became seriously ill and had to go to hospital for tough chemotherapy. Wehn he was released and had his first day at work again, he still was not up to 100% and struggled to make it through the day. He observed a old woman of - as it turned out - 80 or 81 or 82 years, and when he tapped her on the shoulder, she turned and emptied a flacon of CS tear gas into his face, from point blank range - he was knocked out by chemical agents again, on his first day . The women (had not stolen anything) later said she felt like about getting raped (in the middle of the store, with a hundred people around and just some meters away from my cashdesk), and I was told she was quite confused and struggled to write with a pen.

You see my point why I object to advertising such a palm gun to old senile people like in this example, yes? I would also object to let her drive a car.

[Frame57]

An 80 year old woman afraid of getting raped? Huh! Wishful thinking on her part...

[August]

Originally Posted by Frame57

An 80 year old woman afraid of getting raped? Huh! Wishful thinking on her part...

It's happened more than once and it wasn't very funny....

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by August

It's happened more than once and it wasn't very funny....

Did you get counselling since then? I was not aware you were raped, I apologize for the ill placed humor.

[NeonSamurai]

They tried to get the gun registered as a "medical device" under the FDA too..

From their specifications manual.

- SPECIAL NOTICE CONCERNING FDA REGISTRATION AND LISTING –
On December 2, 2008, we were registered as a Medical Device Establishment and the Palm Pistol was listed in the FDA Unified Registration Listing System (FURLS). Based upon agency information, correspondence and verbal instructions, we were led to believe the Palm Pistol was classified as a “device,” were given specific listing instructions, assigned Product Code ILT corresponding with “Recreational Adapter” and identification of the device as a “Daily Activity Assist Device” in accordance
with 21 CFR 890.5050, and accordingly informed we had authority to begin marketing it as such a “device.” At no time did we claim the device was “approved” by the FDA, as erroneously reported in the press. We did make every effort to correct this when extended the courtesy of an inquiry.

On December 8, 2008, FDA Office of Public Affairs issued the following press release:

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has determined that the Palm Pistol, manufactured by Constitution Arms in [Maplewood, NJ] is not a medical device under the Federal Food, Drugs, and Cosmetic Act. The manufacturer registered and listed the product in the FDA’s electronic database on Dec. 2, 2008. Because the FDA has determined the product is not a medical device under section 201(h) of the Act, FDA is cancelling the registration and will return its registration fee. It appears that Constitution Arms registered the company and listed the Palm Pistol as a “recreational adaptor,” which may be a daily assist device under 21 CFR 890.5050. However, registration and listing does not constitute an admission, agreement or determination that a product is a device within the meaning of section 201(h) of the Act. The FDA has determined that the company’s listing was in error.

Siobhan DeLancey, RVT
FDA Office of Public Affairs

We believe the Palm Pistol serves a medical function and may appeal this cancellation of our registration and listing made in good faith. However, this has no effect upon our plan to design and produce the Palm Pistol.

There is also a lot of other nonsense in that manual, and I have to question the accuracy of such a weapon if not used point blank. Also the weapon only has a combination lock and two grip safeties to prevent accidental firings, and if you want the gun for protection, you couldn't have the combination lock active. This means you would be depending on two grip safeties to prevent the gun going off in your pants or purse, which I sure as hell wouldn't. Personally I suspect this weapon is a hunk of junk and that they are pandering to the vulnerable.

I also have to side with Skybird by objecting to advertising such a palm gun to potentialy mentally ill people including elderly people suffering from dementia and the like, and also having a firearm labeled as a medical device.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You see my point why I object to advertising such a palm gun to old senile people like in this example, yes? I would also object to let her drive a car.

Where in the advertisement did you see it advertised to "old senile people"? I, too, would not want this in the hands of a person such as your story above described, but to label the weapon as a joke and useless is taking it a bit far. Just because you can't think of a use for it doesn't make it useless. Just put it on your ignore list and you'll be OK


@ August, amen to that

Edit : It would also make an excellent weapon for Plaxico Burress:rotfl:

[Rockstar]

I looked at that, unfortunetly it's only a one shot chance of stopping someone. In my opinion it only offers the owner a false sense of security. You take that out and miss you're going to be in a world of hurt. On otherhand, if you do hit your mark let me warn you, life is'nt like the movies. One shot will most likely NOT stop the assailant but only tick him or her off even more.

Highly recommend a multi-shot semi auto and practice, practice and more practice.

[fatty]

Somebody else made a wise observation that the Palm Pistol resembles nothing remotely like a typical handgun. Really if a senior drew this I think it would be more easily mistaken for an inhaler or something like that. This eliminates its deterrent effect and limits the use of the Palm Pistol to only shooting people, which, with its stubby little barrel and no sights, it is probably not very good at.

If you are a senior citizen and feel threatened to the extent that you must carry a firearm, better IMHO to carry a small handgun that you will probably only have to draw versus this one that will force you to fire once and probably miss.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Where in the advertisement did you see it advertised to "old senile people"?

Picky day today, eh? An advert writer mentioning "senile" poeple would get fired soon, i assume. But they mentioned seniors (=older people) as their target audience. Well, it is not forbidden by law that older people shall keep on driving cars, but you can not rarely see old people behaving odd in street and highway traffic, reacting too late or to slow, driving to slow and moving to far to either the central or the right white line, using it for orientation. Old people lose mental abilities, that is a fate many of us will face from some early or later day on. And like it is not recommended to have such people moving cars in public traffic anymore, it is no good idea to put firearms into their hands.

I'm sure you get my idea, if only you try a bit. Over the past 18 months I remember two news about traffic accidents in Germany, the one parking his car in the window of a restaurant, and the other mistaking the stairs for the subway with the enterance of a parking deck - both accidents were attributed to the high age of the drivers. and there are many more incidents related to age that do not make it to such spectacular display.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Picky day today, eh? An advert writer mentioning "senile" poeple would get fired soon, i assume. But they mentioned seniors (=older people) as their target audience. Well, it is not forbidden by law that older people shall keep on driving cars, but you can not rarely see old people behaving odd in street and highway traffic, reacting too late or to slow, driving to slow and moving to far to either the central or the right white line, using it for orientation. Old people lose mental abilities, that is a fate many of us will face from some early or later day on. And like it is not recommended to have such people moving cars in public traffic anymore, it is no good idea to put firearms into their hands.

I'm sure you get my idea, if only you try a bit. Over the past 18 months I remember two news about traffic accidents in Germany, the one parking his car in the window of a restaurant, and the other mistaking the stairs for the subway with the enterance of a parking deck - both accidents were attributed to the high age of the drivers. and there are many more incidents related to age that do not make it to such spectacular display.

Picky today, eh? All seniors are not senile and all disabled people aren't ga-ga or drooling. If you want to talk about people taking tests to determine their ability to properly operate a weapon, I'm all for it. Automobiles are weapons, as well, and everyone (not just the elderly) should be required to exhibit the ability to utilize the weapon (automobile) in a safe manner.

As for all the arguments regarding the concept of the weapon, I'm hazarding a guess that most of you don't spend most of your day in a wheelchair or have any kind of physical disability that makes handling a normal firearm difficult. I'm also guessing that the vast majority of attacks on the elderly and the disabled are perpetrated from "up close and personal". Confronted by a mugger within a few feet whose sole intent is to do me bodily harm, I'll gladly take a non-aimed, point and shoot gut shot with a hollow point 9mm over trying to wrangle a normal firearm out from between my arse and the side of my wheelchair. As for "deterring" a would be attacker with a normal weapon, that would require that the weapon be pulled while the attacker is at a distance and hoping that they don't have a gun of their own at the ready.

The weapon is certainly not medical equipment. It also may not be worth a crap. A properly implemented version of the design, however, certainly isn't a worthless idea.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by Skybird

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these.

First, do not lump the disabled with the senile. No one suggested selling this to the senile, only the physically impaired. The elderly are not ALL senile.

Making products designed for the disabled so they can operate devices you take for granted is a popular and profitable business globally.

The object is to make the product so we CAN operate it safely. You're statement suggests if we cannot operate a "normal" device it should not be reinvented or modified so the disabled can use it. I repeat....SAFELY.

I shoot a rifle, yet I could never operate an unmodified gun....or this goofy device being discussed here.