I still have 2 engines... why can't I move?

[Silent Shark]

I've just been attacked from the air, and the result was 2 of my diesel engines have been wiped out. I still have another 2 diesels and 75% fuel left, so why can't I move? I've drained my batteries using the electric engines, and I have no other damage (except to the flak gun), so why can't I use the remaining 2 engines to get me home?

[rrmelend]

The 2 engines you have out are probably on one side of your boat and operate one of your 2 screws. When this happens it is impossible in the game to control the other screw all by itself . Basically you're out of luck. If the 2 damaged engines are beyond repair your only option is to either start another career or load a saved game.

[tomoose]

The game doesn't model the 4 engines as such. If you're engines are out,they're out. It's a shortcoming of the game design. You're only option I believe is to go back to a previous save if you want to complete the mission.

[tater]

Originally Posted by rrmelend

The 2 engines you have out are probably on one side of your boat and operate one of your 2 screws. When this happens it is impossible in the game to control the other screw all by itself . Basically you're out of luck. If the 2 damaged engines are beyond repair your only option is to either start another career or load a saved game.

That would be true if the engines turned the screws. Maybe they do in u-boats, but they don't in fleet boats. US engines had a single function, turning a generator, the screws were turned by separate electric motors.

You should have full control of both screws with even one engine.

D. SUBMARINE DIESEL ENGINE INSTALLATIONS

1D1. Submarine diesel engine installations. Figure 1-14 shows a typical main and auxiliary engine installation aboard a modern, diesel-electric drive, fleet type submarine. Each engine is coupled with a generator to form a generator set. Through the main control cubicle, the current supplied by main generator sets may be directed to charging the batteries or powering the main motors. The auxiliary generator set may be used directly either to charge the batteries or to power the auxiliary equipment. It may also be used indirectly for powering the main motors. Main motors are used for propulsion and may be powered either by the batteries or by the main generator sets.

2A1. Description. The propellers of a modern submarine are driven by four main motors (see Figure 2-1.) arranged in pairs to drive each propeller shaft through a reduction gear, or by two double armature main motors which are coupled directly to and operate in the speed range of the propellers.
Each gear unit used in a gear drive installation is a single reduction, double helical type designed to reduce the main motor speed of approximately 1300 revolutions per minute (rpm) to the propeller speed of 280 rpm.

Power for driving the main motors is obtained from one of two sources: the four main generators driven by the main diesel engines; or, for submerged operation, the main storage batteries.

Fleet boats are true diesel-electrics. There is no physical connection between the diesels, and the shafts.

tater

[rrmelend]

Originally Posted by tater

That would be true if the engines turned the screws. Maybe they do in u-boats, but they don't in fleet boats. US engines had a single function, turning a generator, the screws were turned by separate electric motors.

You should have full control of both screws with even one engine.

tater

Ok, I was trying to give him a simple answer, not the technical answer (you caught me ). This post over in the Mods forum is also very interesting. Ducimus might have found the real "game" answer. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126312

[Silent Shark]

It's one engine on each side which is destroyed, but it looks like I've had it and will be loading a previous save .

I hope I saved it when I started heading back to base, otherwise I'll loose all the tonnage I sank.

Thanks for the help anyway.

EDIT: Just read the post you linked to rrmelend. Seems like I'm a victim of the game design flaw/bug. Ah well, I'll just learn to avoid getting shot at then!

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by tater

That would be true if the engines turned the screws. Maybe they do in u-boats, but they don't in fleet boats. US engines had a single function, turning a generator, the screws were turned by separate electric motors.

You should have full control of both screws with even one engine.

tater

Yup unfortunatly thats not the way the game is coded. It seems to be a go / no go situation.

[Mush Martin]

is that right ? I always thought that there was a transfer case onto
the shafts where by the diesels could turn the shaft or the Motor/Generator
and through the same transfer case the electric motors could be put on
the shaft when the diesels were offline or also added in for an extra
emergency knot or two even with the diesels engaged.?

(its not a challenge tater just a question)

M

[tater]

The chances of losing all 4 diesels due to DC damage seem to be nil (in RL) IMO.

I might work on making it impossible to damage them except with shell fire.

[tater]

Those quotes are from a Fleet Boat manual. The screws are turned by the main MOTORS. Motors are electric. The main diesels are described as such. They are 100% electric propulsion.

[Mush Martin]

Wow forty four years and I still learn something new everyday

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by tater

The chances of losing all 4 diesels due to DC damage seem to be nil (in RL) IMO.

I might work on making it impossible to damage them except with shell fire.

There was one, USS Archer-Fish. Although the diesels did not quit, there was a electrical fire that cut off the electric to the motors. This in effect killed the diesels. They did rig up the 5th smaller motor and were able to make it to port. So yep, pretty darn hard to make 4 engines that are in separate rooms go ca-blooy.

[tater]

I think I can post this as a mod, it's working decently well so far, I have yet to see any diesel losses that were not the entire engineering compartment failing (sunk boat level DC attack).

The downside (fo me) is that it will need to have a version for every mod that messes with zones.cfg.

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

There was one, USS Archer-Fish. Although the diesels did not quit, there was a electrical fire that cut off the electric to the motors. This in effect killed the diesels. They did rig up the 5th smaller motor and were able to make it to port. So yep, pretty darn hard to make 4 engines that are in separate rooms go ca-blooy.

Wahoo ended up dead in the water when a rogue wave resulted in flooding the control cubicle, resulting in some electrical shorts, fires (and half-drowned crew members!). Just to add to the fun, it happened in front of an approaching convoy when they were out of torps. "It never rains, it pours" seems to be the case, here!

As for the rest....interesting to see the cutaway drawings. I knew how the power in US WWII fleet boats worked, but hadn't seen a good set of pics like that (so thanks, Tater!). I imagine this was just another case of trying to shoehorn SH4 into SH3 with time constraints. Power generation and management was one area of total deviation between U-boats and fleet boats, so the result is something that doesn't 'fit' for fleet boats. Radar is another thing that suffered in this regard, too.

Cheers

[tater]

The novel late war u-boats always get credit for their great advances, but the fleet boats were really quite a forward thinking design IMO.