Who Started World War II?

[Fahnenbohn]

CONTENTS

1. The Overwhelming English Guilt. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=595

2. A crime against peace, a crime against France. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=641

3. The share of responsability of the USA. I don't have enough documentation for now to be precise enough.

Threaty of Versailles was unfair :

4. The real causes of the First World War ... WIP *

5. How the Pan-slavics caused war in July 1914 ? ... WIP *


* This work won't be able to be published, because this thread is going to be closed in a few days by the moderators for unknown reason.

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How did this thread start ?

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OLD

Originally Posted by texelbo

khm, Perfide Albion...
Many years ago I was inspired same idea - cured Mers-el-Kebir, Syria campaign of 1941, Madagaskar and Djibouti, Torch landing...

Yeah, the French had really an indecisive attitude during the war. Unfortunately, they didn't understand at all that Hitler didn't want to have a revenge against France, but an united and powerful Europe. And the English were the ennemies of this alliance, as they constantly show during the actions they led against the French fleet, and other facts. England was not the ally of France, but its rival.

[texelbo]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

England was not the ally of France, but its rival.

For sure - 'no permanent ally, but permanent interests'.

We are, looking from east, considerd Hitler as English puppet, as hummer for destroing of remains of belle epoque in continental Europe. They had fault with Trotsky in USSR in 1927, but prompt had switch to 'plan B'.
This tricking gues from Island always succeed play off one their competitors against another. With catastrophic results for those both and profit to UK. It happened at 1870, 1914, 1939, 1941.
Or another tool - the 'revolutions' - at 1789, 1848, 1870, 1905, 1917, 1918.
Doesn't matter where it were - France, Germany or Russia.

It why I like sink british ships.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Yeah, the French had really an indecisive attitude during the war. Unfortunately, they didn't understand at all that Hitler didn't want to have a revenge against France, but an united and powerful Europe. And the English were the ennemies of this alliance, as they constantly show during the actions they led against the French fleet, and other facts. England was not the ally of France, but its rival.

That begs four questions....

1) Which country invaded France?
2) Which country was it that sent the BEF to support France?
3) Which country gave exile/sanctuary to the Free French and its forces?
4) Which country played a major part in freeing France of occupation from her oppressors?

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

That begs four questions....

1) Which country invaded France?
2) Which country was it that sent the BEF to support France?
3) Which country gave exile/sanctuary to the Free French and its forces?
4) Which country played a major part in freeing France of occupation from her oppressors?

Sorry, you don't give me the right to answer to these questions, beause this is ... HATE ! (lol !) And then , I get banned ... . The war is still continuing ...

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by texelbo

It why I like sink british ships.

What I like, and I'm saying it now, before being banned for the second time, is that the British have been humiliated three times during the war by the Germans (the "Nazis" !) : first at Dunkerque where they had a humiliating retreat, second during Rheinübung where their most prestigious battleship was sunk by the Bismarck, and third during Cerberus Operation when 3 german battleships sailed through the Channel !!!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Sorry, you don't give me the right to answer to these questions, beause this is ... HATE ! (lol !) And then , I get banned ... . The war is still continuing ...

You don't get banned or anything else for answering questions and having debates. What we don't like is someone taking the subject off-topic and bringing up his own personal political beliefs in a game thread. In the future please keep that kind of comment to General Topics. For now, please answer the questions.

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

What I like, and I'm saying it now...

So you refuse to answer what you started, but you want to continue with your personal diatribe. You can't have it both ways. I promise that if you answer Jim's questions and engage in an honest debate, no harm will come to you. On the other hand if you continue with your off-topic diatribe but refuse to answer the questions, you will indeed find the trouble you seem to be looking for.

One or the other. Your choice.

[Fahnenbohn]

@ Sailor Steve : you got a PM.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

What I like, and I'm saying it now, before being banned for the second time, is that the British have been humiliated three times during the war by the Germans (the "Nazis" !) : first at Dunkerque where they had a humiliating retreat, second during Rheinübung where their most prestigious battleship was sunk by the Bismarck, and third during Cerberus Operation when 3 german battleships sailed through the Channel !!!

I tell you what.....you answer the original four questions then after that how about you create a separate thread in GT focussing on what you consider to be 'hum iliating experiences' between both sides?

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

1) Which country invaded France?
2) Which country was it that sent the BEF to support France?
3) Which country gave exile/sanctuary to the Free French and its forces?
4) Which country played a major part in freeing France of occupation from her oppressors?

1/2 : Germany made a counter-attack against the Anglo-French coalition.
3/4 : Free French was completely illegal, since the official french government signed an armistice with Germany.

But the good questions are :

1. Which country pushed Poland to refuse any negotiations with Germany about the scandalous Danzig corridor ?
2. Which country first declared war on Germany ?

[Wreford-Brown]

Britain delivered its declaration of war 15 mins before France, but both countries gave a deadline for the withdrawal of German troops from Poland the following day. Both declarations were conditional.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

Britain delivered its declaration of war 15 mins before France, but both countries gave a deadline for the withdrawal of German troops from Poland the following day. Both declarations were conditional.

Yes, but it's symbolic !

Another fact : French people was against the war with Germany. The declaration of war was illegal, the National Assembly's opinion has not even been asked ! A democratie ? lol !

We are always talking about the German officers who tried to assassinate Hitler. This is the French officers who should have had to refuse to obey to the orders, and should have had to make a State coup ! When war was over for France, the members of the government didn't assume their acts, and left the responsibility of the Armistice to a French officer (Petain). He should have understood who was the real ennemy of France, but he was too old, and was still thinking as in 1918 ...

1945 is the end of a free and powerful Europe.

[Fahnenbohn]

From Hitler's speech, october 6, 1939 :

"I have devoted no less effort to the achievement of an Anglo-German understanding, nay, more than that, of an Anglo-German friendship. At no time and in no place have I ever acted contrary to British interests. Unfortunately I have only too often been forced to guard against instances of British interference in German affairs, even in cases which did not concern Great Britain in the least. I actually considered it as one of my life aims to reconcile these two peoples, not only through mutual understanding but through inner sympathy. The German nation has gladly followed my lead in this respect. If my endeavors have been unsuccessful, it is only because of an animosity on the part of certain British statesmen and journalists, which has deeply affected me personally. They made no secret of the fact that - for reasons which are unfathomable to us - their sole aim was to seize the first opportunity in order to resume the fight with Germany. The fewer reasons of substantial nature these men have for their schemes, the more they attempt to motivate their actions with empty phrases and assertions. But I believe even today that there can only he real peace in Europe and throughout the world if Germany and England come to an understanding. Because of this conviction I have often shown the way to an understanding. If in the end there was not the desired result, it was really not my fault."

and also :

"This I ask : If forty-six million Englishmen claim the right to rule over forty million square kilometers of the earth, it cannot be wrong for eighty-two million Germans to demand the right to live on 800,000 square kilometers, to till their fields and to follow their trades and callings, and if they further demand the restitution of those colonial possessions which formerly were their property, which they had not taken away from anybody by robbery or war but honestly acquired by purchase, exchange and treaties."

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No. As I told you privately, you don't get to make your points and then demand the conversation end there. I'm sure that others have counter-points that are just as good, and they get a chance to make them as well.

OK, no problem ! As I told you in PM, I'm honestly searching the truth, and I'm open to the debate.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

3/4 : Free French was completely illegal, since the official french government signed an armistice with Germany.

So you don't want to be independent? You'd much rather be a puppet to a genocidal government in Berlin that valued itself over it's own people, and cared even less about you?

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

a genocidal government

@ Sailor Steve : You see ? Impossible discussion. This is MAGIC !