Do depth charges explosions blind DDs ?

Sag75 · 06-20-09, 11:41 PM

Hi all,

I don't remember in which post I read GWX should get DDs unable to listen for some minutes after their depth charges have exploded around.

is it correct? It's known exactly how long?

thanks for thoughts

Kpt. Lehmann · 06-21-09, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sag75

Hi all,

I don't remember in which post I read GWX should get DDs unable to listen for some minutes after their depth charges have exploded around.

is it correct? It's known exactly how long?

thanks for thoughts

Unfortunately that is not correct. In SH3, only the DD's baffles can be simulated. I modified the DD's baffles in GWX to account for more than one factor.

In real life, depth charges created a mess of bubbles that would ruin hydrophone accoustics and took several minutes to clear. (They sound like bacon being cooked on the hydrophones after the initial explosion is over.)

That being said, ASDIC could 'see' through the mess and remain relatively effective... so in the grand scheme of things... we can live without the accoustic disturbance created by DC's in SH3.

All the same, the decision was made for us and we are left without a choice... assuming the DD's are intended to be an actual threat to players' subs.

Graf Paper · 06-21-09, 12:17 AM

I've always wondered about the technical and philosophical reasons behind this aspect of GWX. Sometimes, knowing why a thing is done can give a much deeper appreciation for how it was accomplished and makes you think twice before you pick up a hex editor or S3D and start "fixing" things.

I'd say that any games' or mods' features are largely a matter of individual preference but GWX has stood the test of time to show, again and again, that it is the best balance between realism, game play, and eye-candy.

If you do wish to experiment with depth charge detonations affecting enemy ASW devices, try the dc_disrup_alpha mod by Albrecht von Hesse. It seems to work quite well as is, but still needs some polishing.

Thread link here:
[WIP] Depth charge noise; a few brave alpha testers wanted

Good hunting!

Kpt. Lehmann · 06-21-09, 12:58 AM

Just reviewed Albrecht von Hesse's WIP mod...

The SH3 engine will not 'see' things created by particle generators, and so his mod would result in a visual effect only. For that reason, and apart from the obvious visual effects, I believe that his testers may have been observing natural behavior by the AI... as if his mod were not present.

If someone were to experiment with accoustic disturbances, I think they should take a look at the files responsible for the BOLD device... and consider melding its effects with depth charge physics.

HOWEVER!

< Stern warning! >

ALL things concerning AI perception of the environment are finely balanced and are interdependant in numerous ways... ANY change will result in a deficit somewhere. One can EASILY destroy AI effectiveness and cause the simulation to be a threatless cake-walk.

Graf Paper · 06-21-09, 06:20 AM

I thought that AvH did use the BOLD device to not only generate the bubble cloud but an acoustic disturbance that "distracted" the DDs momentarily to give a kaleun the small chance to slip away?

I take it the files you refer to in further experimentation are the sensors.dat ,.val, and .sim files, along with the DepthCharge files?

It would be interesting indeed if a workable solution could be found. The escorts' sensors work too well as it is by being able to "hear" and "see" you through all manner of obstructions and interference. This would help to level the playing field a bit without pulling the enemy's teeth.

Food for thought and a wise word of warning. Thanks for your continued input, Kpt. Lehmann!

Sag75 · 06-21-09, 10:41 AM

Thanks for your so exaustive answers!

About bolds.. is there a way to reduce the effectiveness? Anytime I put bolds out, DDs always fall into.. I thing in real life DD crew may be smarter, so it may be simulated by reducing the bold effectiveness.. In this way a DD could not care of your bold and continue to hunt you!

msalama · 06-21-09, 11:47 AM

Well, I made a personal version of AvH's mod a while ago where the DC sim files only spawn a mildish bold via an amun_DepthCharge -> under_explosion FX property. Seems to work pretty well, apart from the explosion visuals which are of course missing now. But that doesn't really matter to me since I always run the game without externals anyway...

Letum · 06-21-09, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msalama

Well, I made a personal version of AvH's mod a while ago where the DC sim files only spawn a mildish bold via an amun_DepthCharge -> under_explosion FX property. Seems to work pretty well, apart from the explosion visuals which are of course missing now. But that doesn't really matter to me since I always run the game without externals anyway...

Any chance of a DL link please?

msalama · 06-22-09, 12:55 AM

Thanks for the interest, but I'm not sure if I want to release something that's just a hack based on other people's work, plus I've no interest and/or time for user support anyway. So this will most likely stay in my personal archives for now I'm afraid...

Sailor Steve · 06-22-09, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

That being said, ASDIC could 'see' through the mess and remain relatively effective...

Could it? I would think that since ASDIC/SONAR generated sound waves that they would also be disrupted by the bubbles. Of course "what I would think" and reality have been at odds more than once, so I'm just asking.

As to the idea, it would be cool if it could be made to work, but I do have one question: would the disturbance not also affect the u-boat's hydrophones, making the boat effectively deaf for the same amount of time? If so, that could make for some interesting gaming.

06-20-09, 11:41 PM	#1
Sag75 XO Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 424 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Do depth charges explosions blind DDs ? Hi all, I don't remember in which post I read GWX should get DDs unable to listen for some minutes after their depth charges have exploded around. is it correct? It's known exactly how long? thanks for thoughts __________________ Betasom - XI Gruppo Sommergibili Atlantici http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php

06-21-09, 12:17 AM	#3
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	I've always wondered about the technical and philosophical reasons behind this aspect of GWX. Sometimes, knowing why a thing is done can give a much deeper appreciation for how it was accomplished and makes you think twice before you pick up a hex editor or S3D and start "fixing" things. I'd say that any games' or mods' features are largely a matter of individual preference but GWX has stood the test of time to show, again and again, that it is the best balance between realism, game play, and eye-candy. If you do wish to experiment with depth charge detonations affecting enemy ASW devices, try the dc_disrup_alpha mod by Albrecht von Hesse. It seems to work quite well as is, but still needs some polishing. Thread link here: [WIP] Depth charge noise; a few brave alpha testers wanted Good hunting! __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

06-21-09, 12:58 AM	#4
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,991 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Just reviewed Albrecht von Hesse's WIP mod... The SH3 engine will not 'see' things created by particle generators, and so his mod would result in a visual effect only. For that reason, and apart from the obvious visual effects, I believe that his testers may have been observing natural behavior by the AI... as if his mod were not present. If someone were to experiment with accoustic disturbances, I think they should take a look at the files responsible for the BOLD device... and consider melding its effects with depth charge physics. HOWEVER! < Stern warning! > ALL things concerning AI perception of the environment are finely balanced and are interdependant in numerous ways... ANY change will result in a deficit *somewhere*. One can EASILY destroy AI effectiveness and cause the simulation to be a threatless cake-walk. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

06-21-09, 06:20 AM	#5
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	I thought that AvH did use the BOLD device to not only generate the bubble cloud but an acoustic disturbance that "distracted" the DDs momentarily to give a kaleun the small chance to slip away? I take it the files you refer to in further experimentation are the sensors.dat ,.val, and .sim files, along with the DepthCharge files? It would be interesting indeed if a workable solution could be found. The escorts' sensors work too well as it is by being able to "hear" and "see" you through all manner of obstructions and interference. This would help to level the playing field a bit without pulling the enemy's teeth. Food for thought and a wise word of warning. Thanks for your continued input, Kpt. Lehmann! __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

06-21-09, 10:41 AM	#6
Sag75 XO Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 424 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Thanks for your so exaustive answers! About bolds.. is there a way to reduce the effectiveness? Anytime I put bolds out, DDs always fall into.. I thing in real life DD crew may be smarter, so it may be simulated by reducing the bold effectiveness.. In this way a DD could not care of your bold and continue to hunt you! __________________ Betasom - XI Gruppo Sommergibili Atlantici http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php

06-21-09, 11:47 AM	#7
msalama Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In an octopus's garden Posts: 565 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Well, I made a personal version of AvH's mod a while ago where the DC sim files only spawn a mildish bold via an amun_DepthCharge -> under_explosion FX property. Seems to work pretty well, apart from the explosion visuals which are of course missing now. But that doesn't really matter to me since I always run the game without externals anyway...

06-22-09, 12:55 AM	#9
msalama Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In an octopus's garden Posts: 565 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the interest, but I'm not sure if I want to release something that's just a hack based on other people's work, plus I've no interest and/or time for user support anyway. So this will most likely stay in my personal archives for now I'm afraid...