Ahhh, the good old days...

Ahhh, the good old days...





http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/aod/index.htm


Yesterday I was playing GWX 1.3 with LRT 1.35a Test Version. I was heavily depth charged. My U-boat was dragged down by the flooded compartments and sunk to the sea floor. Resting on the sea floor for many many hours, trying to repair electric motors and stop the flooding. We were running out of oxygen and repairs were taking much too long. After almost 24 hours on the bottom of the ocean we decided we had run out of time and blew tanks several times.. but it was no use! The flooded compartments were too heavy, still trapping us on the bottom. The U-boat would not rise no matter what we did. Her captain and crew died from lack of oxygen. Trapped in their steel tomb forever.

That brought back so many memories of staying up until late morning hours playing Aces of the Deep when I was younger. One of my all-time favorite games.

The good old days...

[Janus]

Do the longer repair times work with GWX?
I read that it "destroys" the crew efficiency model of GWX.

Originally Posted by Janus

Do the longer repair times work with GWX?
I read that it "destroys" the crew efficiency model of GWX.

Hmm. Where did you read that? A long time ago LRT did change crew efficiencies regarding detections and stuff. But not anymore.

[Janus]

This is where I read it:
Source: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121331

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

I'm going to talk (a little) about some things that will NOT be in GWX version 1.04... or that you may not like... and give everybody a head start on complaining about it.:p

Longer repair times:
The LRT mod that many are familiar with, will not be included in GWX. Not only does it break the crew qualifcation system and play havoc with sensor employment in SH3/GWX, but it also puts at risk our tried and tested player U-boat damage model. Though the currently available LRT mod(s) might possibly be adapted to work with GWX, there are a great many hidden side effects that I think people just don't understand in relation to its interaction with GWX files. Repair times in GWX are already slightly lengthened over stock... and this is in line with research that indicates long/lengthy repairs couldn't really be done at sea. (as in the movie Das Boot) [...]

Originally Posted by Janus

This is where I read it:
Source: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121331

Ouch. Never saw that post before. As far as I know, LRT doesn't change sensor employment. The early versions did, but not the later versions. Not sure why he said that. :hmm: As far as breaking crew qualification system, I'm not so sure about that either. As far as long, lengthy repairs couldn't be done at sea- I have to partially disagree with that statement. Yes, there was a limit to what a crew could repair at sea. But I have read of certain U-boat repairs taking up to a day or more. Overall, that statement is only partially true. Some spare parts were carried aboard U-boats. Smaller repairs could be done at sea, but major repairs would require a ship yard. Also, the really, really long repairs in LRT simulate certain repairs that cannot be done at sea because it takes too long. But the damaged part is still damaged and doesn't work as well. And yes, LRT does change one tried and tested U-boat damage model (GWX) to another tried and tested U-boat damage model (LRT).

I don't really know what to say about that post. Kind of surprises me. The Kpt. is well aware that I have been releasing LRT lite versions to use with GWX that only change repair and flood times. Nothing else. It must have slipped his mind. No one is forced to use LRT with GWX. That's for sure. After reading that, I'm not so motivated any more to release an LRT version for GWX 2.

[Janus]

Oh.
Personally I have never used GWX, but LRT I would not want to play without it!
I really love the longer repair times, they are way more entertaining than the normal SHIII ones.
However I play with the LRT for GWX, because I could not find any non-GWX LRT versions, are there any?

Originally Posted by Janus

Oh.
Personally I have never used GWX, but LRT I would not want to play without it!
I really love the longer repair times, they are way more entertaining than the normal SHIII ones.
However I play with the LRT for GWX, because I could not find any non-GWX LRT versions, are there any?

No, but I will make a vanilla SH3 version if you like. From now on I am going to stop making LRT compatible with GWX. A while I stopped making LRT compatible with NYGM for the exact same reasons. I have reached my limit with the 'LRT breaks our perfect, little understood, 100% realistic features' attitude around here. This isn't the first time a super mod group has openly trashed my mod. But no more LRT support for GWX. I'm done. No more allowing LRT to break their perfect, don't question anything, super mod. That should at least make them happy.

In my opinion, there are many, many questionable, unrealistic things I have noticed in GWX. I don't plan on using GWX any more. No thanks.
But on a brighter note... yes, I will release a vanilla version of LRT.

[Samwolf]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

No, but I will make a vanilla SH3 version if you like. From now on I am going to stop making LRT compatible with GWX. A while I stopped making LRT compatible with NYGM for the exact same reasons. I have reached my limit with the 'LRT breaks our perfect, little understood, 100% realistic features' attitude around here. This isn't the first time a super mod group has openly trashed my mod. But no more LRT support for GWX. I'm done. No more allowing LRT to break their perfect, don't question anything, super mod. That should at least make them happy.

But on a brighter note... yes, I will release a vanilla version of LRT.

Sorry to hear that. I've been using your Lite version to get the longer repair times and really enjoyed it, IMHO it really added to the game and changed my style of play because risking serious long term damage wasn't always worth the risk for the target. I'd hate to have to play without it.

Any chance that the lite version would still work with GWX?

[Janus]

I am very surprised by this bashing-each-other-attitude; I've benn away from the SHIII community for quite a time. I don't understand why a "super-" mod like GWX has no interest in applying such an essential mod (from my point of view) as the longer repair times into their mod.
I should be careful with what I say and not throw salt into the wounds here

A plain SHIII LRT mod would be nice, as I don't use GWX as said before (and probably never will really, I don't see a special use for me with gwx).

Originally Posted by Samwolf

Sorry to hear that. I've been using your Lite version to get the longer repair times and really enjoyed it, IMHO it really added to the game and changed my style of play because risking serious long term damage wasn't always worth the risk for the target. I'd hate to have to play without it.

Any chance that the lite version would still work with GWX?

The lite version of LRT 1.35 won't work with GWX 2.0 because the changes have to be pasted into the new GWX 2.0 basic.cfg and the zone.cfg files. I am fairly sure they updated those two files in their latest release.

Originally Posted by Janus

I am very surprised by this bashing-each-other-attitude; I've benn away from the SHIII community for quite a time. I don't understand why a "super-" mod like GWX has no interest in applying such an essential mod (from my point of view) as the longer repair times into their mod.
I should be careful with what I say and not throw salt into the wounds here

A plain SHIII LRT mod would be nice, as I don't use GWX as said before (and probably never will really, I don't see a special use for me with gwx).

You are right. There has been bashing going on here on and off for some time. Usually it's the super mod guys bashing us small, one person modders who are trying to make our mods compatible with theirs. Maybe it insults them that we think their SUPER mod can be improved in certain ways. Hehe. Not really sure. But for GWX 2.0 to not include much longer repair times is almost unthinkable. I really don't understand the logic behind that decision. But I don't want this to turn into a big flame war like before. I'm not going to say anything else about this subject. Let's let it be.

[Samwolf]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

The lite version of LRT 1.35 won't work with GWX 2.0 because the changes have to be pasted into the new GWX 2.0 basic.cfg and the zone.cfg files. I am fairly sure they updated those two files in their latest release.

Hope you don't mind if I try comparing files, and incorporating your changes into the GWX files, I've already added a few "personal changes" to the menu_1024 and basic cfg already, so I may be able to figure it out without breaking your LRT Lite or GWX. I'm no where near an expert modder but I can figure out some simpler basic things based on the grounds that modders like you have broken for us.

[Wilcke]

Yeah, I just read that post and will reserve comment.

If you don't mind NVdrifter, I would like to just check out if the LRT Lite is adaptable to GWX 2.0 for my own personal use. I really do not know enough about the internals of the GWX 2.0 mod to be able to ascertain what is meant by "interconnectedness" in the captioned thread above.

[ref]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

You are right. There has been bashing going on here on and off for some time. Usually it's the super mod guys bashing us small, one person modders who are trying to make our mods compatible with theirs. Maybe it insults them that we think their SUPER mod can be improved in certain ways. Hehe. Not really sure. But for GWX 2.0 to not include much longer repair times is almost unthinkable. I really don't understand the logic behind that decision. But I don't want this to turn into a big flame war like before. I'm not going to say anything else about this subject. Let's let it be.

Please nv, don't take this as a personal attack, but it's not a bashing attitude, nor we feel insulted by anyone changing GWX,but it's true that if you change the crew efficiency brings out of balance some aspects of what "we" think it's best for the mod, said that anyone has the right to tweak/adapt the mod to suit it's personal tastes, and I feel honoured that any modder uses our work as a base, what we really wan't from other modders is simple, give credits to who corresponds (not carpet crediting) , and a statement that the mod is not an official GW mod, and that the GW team will not support any problems the mod can produce in the functioning of GWX, why that?, because we (the dev team and the testers) spent one year making GWX 2.0, and 3 months testing it thoroughly trying to catch any possible problem, for example I'd to decide to leave out of the release a mod Ive worked on over two months to make (animated crew) because in some cases it produced a freeze in the game.

If the Kpt, didn't make that post, we'll possibly be overwhelmed by posts of problems with your mod, please notice I remarked possibly.
As we try to make the best possible "customer service" as we can we have enough with our own bugs to be forced to take care of the other modders ones.

As for the one person modders is the same problem, GW has a number of teammates varying from 5 to 10 and about 15 dedicated betatesters, if that amount of people can't assure that the mod is bug free, how can be a single person do?

Ref

Originally Posted by ref

Please nv, don't take this as a personal attack, but it's not a bashing attitude, nor we feel insulted by anyone changing GWX,but it's true that if you change the crew efficiency brings out of balance some aspects of what "we" think it's best for the mod, said that anyone has the right to tweak/adapt the mod to suit it's personal tastes, and I feel honoured that any modder uses our work as a base, what we really wan't from other modders is simple, give credits to who corresponds (not carpet crediting) , and a statement that the mod is not an official GW mod, and that the GW team will not support any problems the mod can produce in the functioning of GWX, why that?, because we (the dev team and the testers) spent one year making GWX 2.0, and 3 months testing it thoroughly trying to catch any possible problem, for example I'd to decide to leave out of the release a mod Ive worked on over two months to make (animated crew) because in some cases it produced a freeze in the game.

If the Kpt, didn't make that post, we'll possibly be overwhelmed by posts of problems with your mod, please notice I remarked possibly.
As we try to make the best possible "customer service" as we can we have enough with our own bugs to be forced to take care of the other modders ones.

As for the one person modders is the same problem, GW has a number of teammates varying from 5 to 10 and about 15 dedicated betatesters, if that amount of people can't assure that the mod is bug free, how can be a single person do?

Ref

Hi Ref. Are you serious? Whoever said anyone was asking the GWX team to take care of LRT 'bugs'? I clearly state in the readme files that LRT will change certain aspects of GWX and the GWX team is not responsible for any problems that may occur. And I don't appreciate the GWX team making false statements about my LRT mod. Try to respect the independent modders, ok? Thank you.