The victim is guilty

[Skybird]

http://www.thefrisky.com/2013-04-09/...around-school/

Teenager or not - when I was at that age, I already had a well-developed sense for what is right and what is wrong. I do not know what leaves me more speechless: the photo being circulated, or the offendings and verbal attacks she was exposed to afterwards.

It makes me sick and enraged to read stories like this. I do not wish to stay calm and civilised over such stories. Because our many laws serve lawyers, and protect offenders far too much. Offenders get away with no or too little penalty, over "social concerns" and endless understanding for how very much they are the victims of circumstances themselves, and all the reasons why they are not responsible. But the real victims of crime all too often are left behind.

I have had quite some experiences with courts in my life. One was positive, five were negative. One lie was exposed as being a lie, and the liar sentenced. But five offenders escaped with funny jokes of penalties, or not penalties at all. In their wake, they left four victims dead, their deaths unatoned. 800,000 Euros in total value was stolen by cheating and betrayal, ruining my parents practically, and eroding my finances to threatening levels as well in supporting their court battle. And I almost got punished for having defended my life, once, against unprovoked assault-to-kill. "Justice system"? Maybe when I'm stoned, then I may believe it, then it may appear as a luminiscent cloud in my imagination, drifting slowly through my viewing field. But when I'm sober, the saying that all in all the system serves justice, not in every case, but all in all, I no longer buy, since years. I spit on this "legal" system. It is hopelessly perverted.

[Buddahaid]

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

[u crank]

I listened to a phone interview on CBC Maritime Noon today with this girls mother. Sad. I was upset. Sometimes there is no justice.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audiopl...pid=2374479671

Oh dear, sometimes I hate people...

Poor girl, I hope her family is strong enough to go through this and, someday, find a way back into a somewhat normal life...

[Feuer Frei!]

Simply tragic.
Suicidal people indicate one thing to me: crying out for help.
To others it indicates other things. I used to think that suicidal persons were selfish, in the fact that they take their own life, leaving behind their loved ones to grieve for them. 'Taking the easy way out', when there are no other ways out of a miserable, depressing and unsupportive life.
This case certainly is the opposite. Calling out for help, not being able to deal with what life is offering.

A question i have though is this: after reading the article, it states that the girl admitted herself after entertaining suicidal thoughts.
that was in March. I would think that alarm bells would be ringing loud and clear at this stage for her family and friends. Once a person is entertaining or attempting suicide, even more care needs to be taken to watch and observe and to monitor her condition continuously.
Once a person has decided that suicide is the only way out, there needs to be clear and decisive action taken.
I know that if my daughter took it upon herself to consider suicide or self-admit to a hospital after thinking about suicide, then i would do whatever it takes to monitor the situation around the clock.

I'm not sitting back here and judging the parents, i don't think that's my job nor appropriate in this thread, but, this is a tragic case and i think lessons can and need to be learnt from this.
Other parents who are in a similar predicament, please take note!

[Karle94]

She was raped and bullied. You don´t need to hear the other side of the story. If I am to witness a rape then I would take the raper and beat him within an inch of his life, hoping he would never recover from his injuries. Afterwards, I could say I am proud of doing so.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Simply tragic.
Suicidal people indicate one thing to me: crying out for help.

Probably a majorty of suicide events is what psychiatrists and psychologists call "appellativer Selbstmord". But psychologists tend to think all suicides are just calls for help, and that is wrong. Sometimes, it is a decision for death, and as such: a decision meant for real.

And who am I and who are we to judge and argue with somebody making that decision? We have no right at all to sentence people to life that for a reason valid to them they do not want anymore. We just should make sure that it indeed is not just a call for help, and his/her reasons are not just a temporary mood that comes and goes occasionally. How to achieve that? Can only be something done by closest friends and family. To catch failing suicide candidates and put them into psychiatry until they have convinced a doctor that now they want to live, like it is done in Germany, to me is not the right way.

In case of this girl, it obviously was a collapse of defenses against a social environment mocking about her victimhood and turning against her instead of giving her support. That is what makes it so tragic, and enraging.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

There is only one story....a person has taken their life. End of story.

[raymond6751]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

Wrong is wrong. When this type of thing happens (the bullying ) the guilty have NO 'side' or rights. I hope that each one of them seriously considers suicide also.

[August]

Originally Posted by raymond6751

Wrong is wrong. When this type of thing happens (the bullying ) the guilty have NO 'side' or rights. I hope that each one of them seriously considers suicide also.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Guilt has not been determined and the defendants have and should have all the rights they are entitled to have.

[Jimbuna]

A terribly tragic story...I hope her family and loved ones can come to terms with it all

[Wolferz]

Here where I live the incarcerated DO pay for their room and board, either while incarcerated or after release. Do the crime, serve the time but no free ride. That's the way it should be.

Also in this neighborhood suicidal thoughts are treated very seriously. If the individual doesn't voluntarily seek help they can be forced into treatment by filling out a 302 form at any local hospital. Once the county official signs off on the form it is taken to the nearest LEO to be enacted.
The wife and I were forced to do this with her son. I'm still not sure if he was actually contemplating ending himself or was just terrorizing his mother with claims to do so for whatever twisted reason.
He spent a whole day mimicking slashing his wrists with a guitar pick to the point of creating closed cuts across both wrists. He wasn't happy when the officer arrived and he discovered that he wasn't going to get what he really wanted, which is still a mystery to us. Instead he got ten days in a psyche ward for his trouble and nearly wore out his welcome in our home. It was the threat of putting him in the street to fend for himself after the hospital stay that finally snapped him out of what was eating at him.

This young lady succeeded where she shouldn't have and somebody definitely dropped the ball. As for the circumstances that lead to this tragedy I won't comment on because you can't confirm or deny actions you didn't witness.
Hindsight solves nothing but can be a preventative endeavor in the future.

[Platapus]

A politically incorrect observation not necessarily associated with this thread's topic

It is interesting that if a women gets drunk, has sexual activity and later objects, the law presumes that if she had sexual activity, she is not responsible (did not give consent) due to impairment (being drunk) and therefore is not responsible. i.e. she was raped.

But at the same time, if a man gets drunk, and has sexual activity, but the woman objects afterward, the law presumes that if he had sex, that he IS responsible and his impairment (being drunk) is not valid and he is therefore accountable. i.e. he is a rapist.

So if two people get drunk and have sex, excusing accountability due to impairment of judgement (being drunk) only applies to the woman and not the man.

That's a little one sided.

Rape, like other violent crimes, is a horrible thing and no victim ever deserves it. But when alcohol (or drugs) becomes involved, the rules seem to change and not change equally.

In the eyes of the law, a drunk woman does not give consent but a drunk man does.

I don't know what the answer is, or should be other than people should not get drunk (that's pretty realistic).

[Safe-Keeper]

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

Every time rape and SA in general is the topic at least one answer always begin with "but", usually continuing with an attempt to derail the discussion into how rape is the victim's fault/responsibility. I see this thread has both already.

As another poster pointed out, though, I don't know what looking at this from "both sides" would achieve. Sure there's always a deeper layer of circumstances and human psyche and anecdotes, but a girl was raped, and then had her photo spread, and then committed suicide.

This is tragic and disgusting. Whatever the "other side" might be, it's guaranteed not to be sufficient to mitigate anything. It's like asking for the "other side" of a story about a suicide bomber blowing up a school bus full of elementary school children.

Women who go out and get drunk then get raped must undertand that they are responsible for their actions and it is they who have put themselves in that situation....Sorry to bring up the opinions the OP has previously stated on this forum regarding this subject but it strikes me as highly hypocritical.

Does this apply to everyone who is drunk, or just women who are raped? If I see you in a bar drunk, am I allowed to beat you up, pickpocket you or wreck your car?

If I recall correctly it also covers women who walk into a bar wearing a "sexy" dress

Fail, both on a moral and factual basis. Go sit in the naughty corner until you're sorry.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Every time rape and SA in general is the topic at least one answer always begin with "but".

As another poster pointed out, though, I don't know what looking at this from "both sides" would achieve. Sure there's always a deeper layer of circumstances and human psyche and anecdotes, but a girl was raped, and then had her photo spread, and then committed suicide.

This is tragic and disgusting. Whatever the "other side" might be, it's guaranteed not to be sufficient to mitigate anything. It's like asking for the "other side" of a story about a suicide bomber blowing up a school bus full of elementary school children.

You accept that she was raped with no evidence as if that is a given. Is it? Then prove it the authorities couldn't.