The victim is guilty

[Skybird]

http://www.thefrisky.com/2013-04-09/...around-school/

Teenager or not - when I was at that age, I already had a well-developed sense for what is right and what is wrong. I do not know what leaves me more speechless: the photo being circulated, or the offendings and verbal attacks she was exposed to afterwards.

It makes me sick and enraged to read stories like this. I do not wish to stay calm and civilised over such stories. Because our many laws serve lawyers, and protect offenders far too much. Offenders get away with no or too little penalty, over "social concerns" and endless understanding for how very much they are the victims of circumstances themselves, and all the reasons why they are not responsible. But the real victims of crime all too often are left behind.

I have had quite some experiences with courts in my life. One was positive, five were negative. One lie was exposed as being a lie, and the liar sentenced. But five offenders escaped with funny jokes of penalties, or not penalties at all. In their wake, they left four victims dead, their deaths unatoned. 800,000 Euros in total value was stolen by cheating and betrayal, ruining my parents practically, and eroding my finances to threatening levels as well in supporting their court battle. And I almost got punished for having defended my life, once, against unprovoked assault-to-kill. "Justice system"? Maybe when I'm stoned, then I may believe it, then it may appear as a luminiscent cloud in my imagination, drifting slowly through my viewing field. But when I'm sober, the saying that all in all the system serves justice, not in every case, but all in all, I no longer buy, since years. I spit on this "legal" system. It is hopelessly perverted.

[Buddahaid]

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

[u crank]

I listened to a phone interview on CBC Maritime Noon today with this girls mother. Sad. I was upset. Sometimes there is no justice.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audiopl...pid=2374479671

Oh dear, sometimes I hate people...

Poor girl, I hope her family is strong enough to go through this and, someday, find a way back into a somewhat normal life...

[Feuer Frei!]

Simply tragic.
Suicidal people indicate one thing to me: crying out for help.
To others it indicates other things. I used to think that suicidal persons were selfish, in the fact that they take their own life, leaving behind their loved ones to grieve for them. 'Taking the easy way out', when there are no other ways out of a miserable, depressing and unsupportive life.
This case certainly is the opposite. Calling out for help, not being able to deal with what life is offering.

A question i have though is this: after reading the article, it states that the girl admitted herself after entertaining suicidal thoughts.
that was in March. I would think that alarm bells would be ringing loud and clear at this stage for her family and friends. Once a person is entertaining or attempting suicide, even more care needs to be taken to watch and observe and to monitor her condition continuously.
Once a person has decided that suicide is the only way out, there needs to be clear and decisive action taken.
I know that if my daughter took it upon herself to consider suicide or self-admit to a hospital after thinking about suicide, then i would do whatever it takes to monitor the situation around the clock.

I'm not sitting back here and judging the parents, i don't think that's my job nor appropriate in this thread, but, this is a tragic case and i think lessons can and need to be learnt from this.
Other parents who are in a similar predicament, please take note!

[Karle94]

She was raped and bullied. You don´t need to hear the other side of the story. If I am to witness a rape then I would take the raper and beat him within an inch of his life, hoping he would never recover from his injuries. Afterwards, I could say I am proud of doing so.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Karle94

You don´t need to hear the other side of the story.

Unfortunately the law is such that you do. Whether you or i agree with the law is another matter entirely.

If I am to witness a rape then I would take the raper and beat him within an inch of his life, hoping he would never recover from his injuries.

All 4 of them? A noble gesture, i don't think anyone would argue with you, least not me, however taking the law into your own hands will have consequences, moreso if you yourself are a father, husband etc.

[Mork_417]

Sad, very sad indeed.


A question though... What was a 15 year old doing at a party drinking vodka?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

There is only one story....a person has taken their life. End of story.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Simply tragic.
Suicidal people indicate one thing to me: crying out for help.

Probably a majorty of suicide events is what psychiatrists and psychologists call "appellativer Selbstmord". But psychologists tend to think all suicides are just calls for help, and that is wrong. Sometimes, it is a decision for death, and as such: a decision meant for real.

And who am I and who are we to judge and argue with somebody making that decision? We have no right at all to sentence people to life that for a reason valid to them they do not want anymore. We just should make sure that it indeed is not just a call for help, and his/her reasons are not just a temporary mood that comes and goes occasionally. How to achieve that? Can only be something done by closest friends and family. To catch failing suicide candidates and put them into psychiatry until they have convinced a doctor that now they want to live, like it is done in Germany, to me is not the right way.

In case of this girl, it obviously was a collapse of defenses against a social environment mocking about her victimhood and turning against her instead of giving her support. That is what makes it so tragic, and enraging.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Skybird

How to achieve that? Can only be something done by closest friends and family. To catch failing suicide candidates and put them into psychiatry until they have convinced a doctor that now they want to live, like it is done in Germany, to me is not the right way.
In case of this girl, it obviously was a collapse of defenses against a social environment mocking about her victimhood and turning against her instead of giving her support. That is what makes it so tragic, and enraging.

Indeed, and as my previous post asked, where was her support base? Her pillars of strength?
Alarm bells were tolling loud enough for everyone to hear. The signs were there, victimization, bullying, harrassment, both of a sexual nature and also of a physical nature. Hell, they moved away, the self-admitting to a hospital.
Surely the outward signs were there: depression, reclusive, uncertain, introvert behaviour, who knows what else.
Maybe the alarm bells were faulty.
I just cannot fathom that her support base was, not necessarily oblivious to het state of despair, but not at the very least monitoring, supporting with constant supervision.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Karle94

She was raped and bullied. You don´t need to hear the other side of the story. If I am to witness a rape then I would take the raper and beat him within an inch of his life, hoping he would never recover from his injuries. Afterwards, I could say I am proud of doing so.

And you would pay for the thugs for the rest of your life. Such are the laws at least over here. One must not like it, but that is how it is.

However, in Saudi-Arabia a 24 year old is to be artifically paralysed because as a 14 year old he hit a buddy and broke his spine. An eye for an eye - this is the result.

What I do niot like is that even where an offender needs to pay penalties, all too often it is the state picking up the penalties to pay. What financial interest has the state in this? None. The offender should pay for his victim, and where it is possible, he should also give full compensation. where an additional prison penalty is given, he should work in prison also to pay for the costs of his food and lodging. It is a scandal that the public that gets protected from the offender by locking him away, nevertheless takes damage be having to pay for him. Sentenced criminals should work for their food and clothing. If they do not comply, do not make a big issue of it - let them starve themselves to death if that is what they want.

In an ideal world, the girl here would have to be heard on the penalty she imagines for those who raped her. The four would be sentenced also to later work in their lives and pay her a yearly compensation that covers all costs for therapy and other consequences of the rape, plus some additional "penalty fee". The false friends mocking her and turning away, would be sued for mobbing and character assassination, and also need to pay a one-time compensation to the girl. Whether the raping boys would additionally serve prison time or would undergo a corporal public punishement I would decide on grounds of what the girl says on that option.

In an ideal world. [sigh]

[raymond6751]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I know how you feel but there is only one side of the story in that article.

Wrong is wrong. When this type of thing happens (the bullying ) the guilty have NO 'side' or rights. I hope that each one of them seriously considers suicide also.

[August]

Originally Posted by raymond6751

Wrong is wrong. When this type of thing happens (the bullying ) the guilty have NO 'side' or rights. I hope that each one of them seriously considers suicide also.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Guilt has not been determined and the defendants have and should have all the rights they are entitled to have.

[Jimbuna]

A terribly tragic story...I hope her family and loved ones can come to terms with it all