View Full Version : Ship Models - request/development
Charlie901
09-22-05, 01:16 AM
I'd love to get some additional ships added to this sim, especially more merchants and maybe a US PT boat.
How about some American Battleships (Texas) anyone???
I've DL'ed Serbugto's wonderful additions but I'm stuck wanting more, bitten by the modding bug.
Anyone working on some additional ships?
Happy Times
09-22-05, 02:01 AM
Good luck with your request :o
Marhkimov
09-22-05, 02:25 AM
Well, at least Charlie901 is being honest. Who doesn't want an extra boat-load of ships (no pun intended)???
Those modders are getting closer everyday... I really can't wait either... :rock:
I hope to see more merchants too, but I don't think there are suitable parts available to make a New York class US battleship. Maybe someone will figure out how to import completely new objects though. Even if this never happens, a lot of progress with new tools has been made (especially over the last week), and I think new ships will be available soon. We just have to be patient.
Wulfmann
09-22-05, 10:39 AM
As much fun as the USS Texas might be (Yes, I have visted that and all the other battleships) I would prefer a bunch of new merchant ships; 500,700 and 1,000 tons and all kinds in between what we now have so a 40 ship convoy does not have but one model of each. A few Brit cruisers, sure and a Vosper instead of the Elco as well as (at least) surfaced Brit sub targets (prefer submergible but don't dare dream too much)
The day to day combat against convoys is where I would prefer the effort be made and not a piece of eye candy I may never ever see. (I have yet to even see the Bismarck, Victorious or a KGV, and caught a glimps of a Nelson once since April playing almost every day) yet I was updating their skins constantly!!! :rotfl:
Wulfmann
iambecomelife
09-22-05, 01:14 PM
I hope to see more merchants too, but I don't think there are suitable parts available to make a New York class US battleship. Maybe someone will figure out how to import completely new objects though. Even if this never happens, a lot of progress with new tools has been made (especially over the last week), and I think new ships will be available soon. We just have to be patient.
I really want to make a "New York" but the midships turret would be a pain. The new cloning tools are effective but they don't allow you to place new nodes (the locations for weapons, searchlights, etc). A better choice would be the "USS Pennsylvania", which has no midship turrets and looks somewhat similar to the "Revenge" class. This will hopefully be a project for me after I get the hang of producing simple changes to the 3d model.
FAdmiral
09-22-05, 01:24 PM
We all wanted to see more types of ships and maybe some subs
too but unfortunately the game design isn't going to let us do
much along those lines unless the SDK is released (fat chance)
JIM
If someone made the Pennsylvania class (or Nevada class), some changes would need to be made to the in-game superstructures which are available, and it would be difficult to model the rear tripods (well, I guess it would be). Of course if you were modeling the post-Pearl Harbour Pennsylvania, you wouldn't need a rear tripod at all, and the post-PH Nevada looked completely different after receiving extensive upgrades.
Did the Pennsylvania ever see Atlantic service prior to Pearl Harbour? I have never heard of the Pennsylvania serving in the Atlantic after 1941 either, but it seems possible. The Nevada served in the Atlantic later in the war (for example, at the Normandy invasion) and would be a good ship to add. As for the sister ships of the two class name-ships (Arizona and Oklahoma), I have heard of the Arizona being in the Atlantic prior to the American entry into the war, but nothing of the Oklahoma. Neither ship served in the Atlantic (or anywhere for that matter) after Pearl Harbour, as they were both destroyed.
So I would choose the Nevada class over the Pennsylavinias in terms of usefulness, although the Pennsylvanias would probably be easier to model (and I happen to like that class better anyway). Of course, someday both classes might be added... :hmm:
There aren't many US battleships which could be modeled anyway, due to the lack of suitable-looking parts.
:up:
I really hope someone figures out how to import these. Cdr Gibbs, got a couple of more to show us?
sergbuto
09-22-05, 03:43 PM
Cdr Gibbs, got a couple of more to show us?
I guess he will soon run out those to show. ;) It is not very many suitable military ships in the Espona/Viewpoint collection and some of those are already in the game. Biber, E-boat, New Jersey, PT boats, Pola, Seehund, Vosper, maybe Jap sub, and that is about it. Some small patrol vessels and a few civil ships can be added as well if of interest. Titanic would be interesting though since its sister ship survived throughout the war.
The Olympic survived until WW2? Every book I've read on the Titanic stated that the Olympic was scrapped in the UK in 1936. I hope not, as she would make an interesting troopship. :o
PS - Whatever happened to the Mauratania? (That might not be spelled correctly... :-? ) Another interesting troopship for SH3 someday, if she survived that long.
Flakwalker
09-22-05, 06:09 PM
What about a Vosper torpedo boat?
iambecomelife
09-22-05, 06:49 PM
The Olympic survived until WW2? Every book I've read on the Titanic stated that the Olympic was scrapped in the UK in 1936. I hope not, as she would make an interesting troopship. :o
PS - Whatever happened to the Mauratania? (That might not be spelled correctly... :-? ) Another interesting troopship for SH3 someday, if she survived that long.
Yep. I don't recall the exact date but she was definitely gone by WWII. The Mauretania served as a troopship during WWI. She survived two U-boat encounters - one because she was still a liner and the sub commander didn't want to kill civilians, and the other (after her transport conversion) by dodging the torpedo. Like the Olympic, she was eventually scrapped after the war. I could be wrong, but by WWII there were probably no four-funneled liners left, and very few three-funnelers.
I've heard of a few more of those big ocean liners that were scrapped in the 30s (although never any after 1937, when tensions escalated). I bet the British were wishing they had kept a few more of them in reserve or something in 1940-41... :damn: Of course they were probably structurally unsound by that time - look what happened to the colliers Nereus and Proteus. The rest of their sister ships were scrapped in the 1930s (except for the vanished Cyclops and the converted-to-carrier Jupiter) but they were sold to Canada in 1941 as bauxite carriers. One of the scrapped sisters, the Jason, had been so rusted, that someone cleaning rust off the hull broke a hole in it with a hammer :o . The fact that the Nereus and Proteus both vanished in mildly bad weather doesn't seem to be as big a mystery as some believe it to be :hmm:.
Imagine having rusty ships like that in SH3 - no more "three torpedoes to sink freighter" threads. It would be more like "two shells expended, 19,000 ton cargo and 46,000 ton transport sunk." :D. Or maybe we could just arm our U boat crews with hammers and send them over in a dingy... :88)
Anyway, these obsolete and hypothetical ships would be impossible to make with the techniques currently available, even if they were viable. Maybe someday in the future, when someone with the SDK is bored and looking for a novelty ship to make, we'll have the sister of the Titanic and 19,000 freighters that could be sunk with a hammer. For now, I'll look forward to the more vital merchants - speaking of which, if anyone makes any progress, don't hesitate to post. I'm still too DOS illiterate to make any progress myself.
iambecomelife
09-22-05, 08:22 PM
I've heard of a few more of those big ocean liners that were scrapped in the 30s (although never any after 1937, when tensions escalated). I bet the British were wishing they had kept a few more of them in reserve or something in 1940-41... :damn: Of course they were probably structurally unsound by that time - look what happened to the colliers Nereus and Proteus. The rest of their sister ships were scrapped in the 1930s (except for the vanished Cyclops and the converted-to-carrier Jupiter) but they were sold to Canada in 1941 as bauxite carriers. One of the scrapped sisters, the Jason, had been so rusted, that someone cleaning rust off the hull broke a hole in it with a hammer :o . The fact that the Nereus and Proteus both vanished in mildly bad weather doesn't seem to be as big a mystery as some believe it to be :hmm:.
Imagine having rusty ships like that in SH3 - no more "three torpedoes to sink freighter" threads. It would be more like "two shells expended, 19,000 ton cargo and 46,000 ton transport sunk." :D. Or maybe we could just arm our U boat crews with hammers and send them over in a dingy... :88)
Anyway, these obsolete and hypothetical ships would be impossible to make with the techniques currently available, even if they were viable. Maybe someday in the future, when someone with the SDK is bored and looking for a novelty ship to make, we'll have the sister of the Titanic and 19,000 freighters that could be sunk with a hammer. For now, I'll look forward to the more vital merchants - speaking of which, if anyone makes any progress, don't hesitate to post. I'm still too DOS illiterate to make any progress myself.
It's interesting how these ore carriers always seem to have structural problems; to this day several of them disappear each year. The Nereus and Proteus have been attributed to the "Bermuda Triangle" phenomenon, but I don't believe in that. However, do you think it's possible that one or both were sunk by U-boats that didn't survive their patrols? Or would it have been standard policy to report sinkings immediately after they occurred? Also, do you know of any websites with information about the Nereus and Proteus? I've always liked pre-1950's bulk carriers like the Cyclops, Marore, and Amerikaland, and I'll try my hand at making one if sansal continues to improve that wonderful program of his :hmm: .
iambecomelife
09-22-05, 08:25 PM
As much fun as the USS Texas might be (Yes, I have visted that and all the other battleships) I would prefer a bunch of new merchant ships; 500,700 and 1,000 tons and all kinds in between what we now have so a 40 ship convoy does not have but one model of each. A few Brit cruisers, sure and a Vosper instead of the Elco as well as (at least) surfaced Brit sub targets (prefer submergible but don't dare dream too much)
The day to day combat against convoys is where I would prefer the effort be made and not a piece of eye candy I may never ever see. (I have yet to even see the Bismarck, Victorious or a KGV, and caught a glimps of a Nelson once since April playing almost every day) yet I was updating their skins constantly!!! :rotfl:
Wulfmann
Regarding other ships, I'm about to release the Hospital Ship that I started several months ago. Thanks to sansal I was able to give it a unique hex ID and avoid the CTD's it had caused earlier. It doesn't incorporate any structural changes but I think it's a nice addition, anyway...
Yes, I was thinking myself that a hospital ship would be a good addition, and it wouldn't need any structural changes at all IMO. It shouldn't be armed though. Which ship will it be - The Passenger Liner, the Troop Transport, or Serg's Transport? If there was a separate one for Allied nations, you could give it 0 renown so that we're not rewarded for sinking one, although loss of renown might be better.
BTW - Speaking of the Bermuda Triangle, wasn't the Marine Suphur Queen, which supposidely vanished without a trace, found last year? Last I heard, it was yet to be confirmed, as the wreck may have been WW2 era. We don't need to add the MSQ to the game though, she's already there :) . (T2 tanker).
Forgot to mention, I've never found a single site on the Nereus and Proteus. I have a picture of each (a stern shot and a bow shot) in an old and out of print book called the Devil's Triangle (try to guess what it's about :roll:). The pictures are captionned as belonging to the US Navy.
No I don't think they were sunk by U boats (if they were, imagine the tonnage though :o) - if they had been, there would probably have been some record and no U boats were in the area anyway. I guess it's possible though.
As for sinking bulk carriers in modern times, one actually broke in two and sank (the MV Flare) near St. John's Newfoundland, the province where I live, several years ago. The footage was used in the movie Godzilla, in the scene where the French "insurance agents" (French Foreign Legion) are interviewing the sole survivor, I think (on the TV in the room).
Wulfmann
09-22-05, 09:50 PM
Nice models, very nice.
BTW, the Arizona is sister to the Pennsylvania and the Nevada is sister to the Oklahoma, so there would only be one ship to model per class.
Most of the older battleships were rebuilt and did not re-enter service until mid 1944. Although a few undamaged were on defensive patrols as back up behind the fleet at Midway or the Aleutians, like Colorado and Pennsylvania. A few old ones showed up at Normandy for shore pounding, a job they were well suited too. Nevada, Texas and the ancient Arkansas were there.
The Texas and New York were used as convoy escorts on the mid Atlantic convoys (New York-Casablanca) and being sisters this might be the only logical one (Nevada was briefly used as well) for SH3.
Wulfmann
Woof1701
09-23-05, 03:22 AM
About the Hospital Ships:
Wouldn't it be possible to make every Hospital ship an Axis ship, and thus every player attacking one would get negative renown? My only concern is, that the ship might be sunk by the convoy escorts in turn :hmm:
iambecomelife
09-23-05, 04:42 AM
About the Hospital Ships:
Wouldn't it be possible to make every Hospital ship an Axis ship, and thus every player attacking one would get negative renown? My only concern is, that the ship might be sunk by the convoy escorts in turn :hmm:
I have the whole renown thing sorted out too; it's worth -10000. Unfortunately there's no way to get the ingame ships and aircraft to respect the Geneva Conventions; however, it can spawn as a friendly, allied, or neutral unit. In a future version I may create a unique "Red Cross" nationality that is always neutral and thus safe from AI attacks .
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2003/hospitalship16af.jpg
A Swedish example in a German port at the outbreak of WWII. I sank her as a test to see if I would receive the appropriate penalty, and I did, although it was a bit less than what I wanted (-1500 renown).
iambecomelife
09-23-05, 05:26 AM
@ AG124: Here's a good page on the "Flare", with a link to the Canadian government's report: http://www.ndtcabin.com/articles/flare/flare1.php
re: the Sulphur Queen: Marine Transport Lines has always been regarded as a sketchy company. In 1983 they also lost the "Marine Electric" with three survivors out of a 30-plus man crew. I guess they thought it was a good idea to take a 39-y/o converted T-2 into an East Coast winter storm :roll: .
Anyway, some more shots of the mod:
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4134/hospitalshipa3ci.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/7036/hospitalshipb5ul.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2946/hospitalshipc5ws.jpg
:up:
A "red cross" nationality would be a good idea. For now, this will do very well, though, I think.
Shadow9216
09-23-05, 09:33 AM
Can you make a hospital ship out of a Liberty? I know there were several converted during the war...
iambecomelife
09-23-05, 03:48 PM
Can you make a hospital ship out of a Liberty? I know there were several converted during the war...
That would be an interesting project, but I don't think I'll do that for now. I already have one ship class as a hospital ship, and creating liberty hospital ships might make them artificially common. Maybe after we create lots of additional merchant classes so that any given vessel is less likely to be a hospital ship. BTW, the mod's done, as you can see...
pampanito
09-23-05, 05:00 PM
Forgot to mention, I've never found a single site on the Nereus and Proteus.
Hello,
take a look at this:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/0210.htm (with photos)
http://www.numa.net/expeditions/cyclops.html
It seems the wreck of CYCLOPS, NEREUS or PROTEUS could have been found. The article attributes the loss of Nereus and Proteus to German U-boats.
Concerning the loss of these two ships, is it possible that North Atlantic weather was unusually bad during the end of November/start of December 1941? I say this because it's surprising that of the very few merchantmen sunk by U-boats from 11 November to 2 December 1941 (just six ships), no less than three (a 50%) were lost without trace. In fact, the attribution of these sinkings to individual U-boats is more or less based in circumstancial grounds.
MERIDIAN (5592 grt) was last seen by HMCS CHAMBLY on November 11, astern of convoy SC-53; she is supposed to have been sunk by U-561.
CRUSADER (2939 grt) was supposed to sail with SC-53, but failed to report and was reported missing. She is also attributed to U-561.
ASTRAL (7542 grt) was reported missing after Dec 2nd, and is attributed to U-43; interestingly, U-43's commander claim was for a big ship of some 12,300 grt.
To add more confusion, Italian sub CAPPELLINI reported also on December 2nd to have hit with two torpedoes an unknown ship; the B-Dienst identified her as MIGUEL DE LARRINAGA, but this vessel was far from the area and was not attacked at all.
The wreck which was supposidely the Cyclops was never found again and hasn't been relocated to this day. It was said to have been broken in two near the stern, with the stern lying on its side. This has since been assumed to have been a structural weakness in the class.
Thanks for the pictures of the Nereus. The Proteus actually had a different bridge than that - I guess most members of the class looked different from each other.
BTW - GREAT HOSPITAL SHIP SERGBUTO! :up:
iambecomelife
09-23-05, 11:11 PM
The wreck which was supposidely the Cyclops was never found again and hasn't been relocated to this day. It was said to have been broken in two near the stern, with the stern lying on its side. This has since been assumed to have been a structural weakness in the class.
Thanks for the pictures of the Nereus. The Proteus actually had a different bridge than that - I guess most members of the class looked different from each other.
BTW - GREAT HOSPITAL SHIP SERGBUTO! :up:
lol - he helped but it was my skin. :-j
It's always so awesome when a historical wreck is found. I can actually remember some of the Titanic footage from the year after it was found (got me hooked on ships for good at an early age!)
I hope that someone rediscovers that wreck and can confirm that it's the Cyclops or a sister ship.
BTW, I took a crack at a bulk carrier with the T-2 model but it didn't work out. However, I think I've made a breakthrough with the factory ship. Believe it or not I'm using the small tanker as the parent unit instead of the t-3. I'm going to test the 3d model in museum mode tomorrow, and if I like it I'll start getting it ready for release.
stljeffbb1
09-23-05, 11:18 PM
WOOHOO! Here come a whole bunch of ships! We'll have this game where it should be in no time! Now if we could just make some Allied subs.....I'm sure someone will get working on that one!
:up:
-Jeff
Sorry for giving all the credit to Sergbuto - it was 1:00 in the morning when I wrote that post (where I live) and I was too tired to think straight. :doh: :oops:
If you make a whale factory out of the small tanker, will you be able to resize it, or change the silhouette? If not, it will be a great addition anyway.
Great work! :up:
Wulfmann
09-24-05, 10:33 AM
After looking up careers on US battleships, I must edit my initial post giving prper credit for the Atlantic service of US battleships. The USS Texas and New York were used as convoy escorts in the Atlantic. Some in the north but mostly the Casablanca convoys and did so often. They also served in the Western Med and covered the invasion of Southern France before Texas going to Normandy. They both ended the war in the Pacific and were in action for long periods racking up impressive miles steamed and shells fired.
It is somewhat ironic that the “better” of the older battleships were withdrawn ad completely rebuilt but only returned for the finishing off of Japan while the "crappy" old worthless ones were used when it mattered most.
The USS Texas is moored in Houston and is a very worthwhile visit. She is the only surviving dreadnaught type battleship built before 1940 making her very unique.
Few older warships survived the scrapper’s torch. Besides the Texas, the British built Japanese Mikasa at Yokosuka, a predreadnaught and the 2nd class battleship, Italian built (re-classed as Armored Cruiser) Greek Georgos Averoff at Poros Island.
Also, there is the Russian light cruiser Aurora at St. Petersburg and the US armored cruiser Olympia, Dewey’s flagship at Manila, in Philadelphia.
If a US battleship is a desire for building in SH3, the sisters Texas and New York, would historically be the ones that spent by far more time in the Atlantic than all others combined. Plus, we can photograph her to be accurate (Texas) (I have many photos taken in 1993)
Wulfmann
iambecomelife
09-24-05, 10:45 AM
After looking up careers on US battleships, I must edit my initial post giving prper credit for the Atlantic service of US battleships. The USS Texas and New York were used as convoy escorts in the Atlantic. Some in the north but mostly the Casablanca convoys and did so often. They also served in the Western Med and covered the invasion of Southern France before Texas going to Normandy. They both ended the war in the Pacific and were in action for long periods racking up impressive miles steamed and shells fired.
It is somewhat ironic that the “better” of the older battleships were withdrawn ad completely rebuilt but only returned for the finishing off of Japan while the "crappy" old worthless ones were used when it mattered most.
The USS Texas is moored in Houston and is a very worthwhile visit. She is the only surviving dreadnaught type battleship built before 1940 making her very unique.
Few older warships survived the scrapper’s torch. Besides the Texas, the British built Japanese Mikasa at Yokosuka, a predreadnaught and the 2nd class battleship, Italian built (re-classed as Armored Cruiser) Greek Georgos Averoff at Poros Island.
Also, there is the Russian light cruiser Aurora at St. Petersburg and the US armored cruiser Olympia, Dewey’s flagship at Manila, in Philadelphia.
If a US battleship is a desire for building in SH3, the sisters Texas and New York, would historically be the ones that spent by far more time in the Atlantic than all others combined. Plus, we can photograph her to be accurate (Texas) (I have many photos taken in 1993)
Wulfmann
That's good to know, since I absolutely love bb's with midship turrets. I know, the arc of fire isn't good, but they just ... look good :88) . Not surprisingly, some of my favorites are the HMS Agincourt and USS Arkansas.
@AG124 - the whale factory will have minor changes to the actual 3d model, as well as resizing so that it's appropriate for a 15000-20000 ton ship. I might not classify it as a tanker, since I want it to be an extremely rare vessel that you encounter maybe once in a career. After all, it would be boring if you could rack up 50000 tons a mission by sinking a couple of them each patrol.
If the whale factory will not be classified as a tanker, what classification will you use"
Few older warships survived the scrapper’s torch.
Actually, some US battleships weren't scrapped but were sunk as targets instead :huh:. This is a list of US battleships from WW2, not including cancelled ones but including ones used as training ships:
Utah (converted to Aerial Target Ship in WW2) - Sunk at Pealr Harbour.
Wyoming (converted to Training Ship in WW2) - Scrapped 1947.
Arkansas - Sunk as A-Bomb target 1946.
New York - Sunk as target 1948.
Texas - Donated as Museum 1948.
Nevada - Sunk as target 1948.
Oklahama - Destroyed in Pear Harbour, wreck sank under tow to scrapyard 1946.
Pennsylvania - Sunk as target 1948.
Arizona - Sunk at Pearl Harbour.
New Mexico - Scrapped 1948.
Idaho - Scrapped 1948.
Mississippi - Scrapped 1956 after being used as training ship.
Tennessee - Scrapped 1958.
California - Scrapped 1958.
Colorado - Scrapped 1958.
Maryland - Scrapped 1958.
West Virginia - Scrapped 1961.
Washington - Scrapped 1962.
North Carolina - Museum Ship 1962.
South Dakota - Scrapped 1962.
Alabama - Museum Ship 1962.
Massachusettes - Museum Ship 1962.
Indiana - Scrapped 1962.
Iowa - Still in Reserve?
New Jersey - Museum Ship.
Missouri - Museum Ship.
Wisconsin - Still in Reserve?
Too bad a couple of the Pearl Harbour survivors couldn't have benn kept as museums too. I also never understood why the carrier Enterprise was scrapped.
There was no shortage of US battleships in WW2, and yet there is not one in SH3 :nope:. Of course, most were used almost exclusively in the Pacific anyway.
Wulfmann
09-24-05, 01:15 PM
I meant of those "not" sunk. And, I was referring to the older ones of which only Texas exist today.
I too am annoyed they scrapped the Big "E". She was the most important single ship of the US fleet in the war.
That was a sin. :damn:
So was scrapping HMS Warspite, the true spirit of British battleships was epitomized by that one ship more than any other.
Scrapped!!!!
Jerks!!!:rock:
Sad to think the Rodney, King George V and Duke of York are gone forever but Bismarck and Scharnhorst still survive, preserved by Davy Jones for future generations, perhaps to one day visit.
That which was found is lost and that which was lost is found!!!
OK that is not at all what the Bible says but that is what a Naval Bible would say about the victors and the vanquished!! Book of Tovey 13:13
Wulfmann
The wreck of the Bismark has already been found, by Dr Robert Ballard. The Scharnhorst is still out there somewhere though.
Syxx_Killer
09-24-05, 03:53 PM
I don't remember who it was, but I remember a documentary about the Scharnhorst. She was found.
:o Really?!! I never heard that - If anyone has a link, could you post it? This is very interesting...
BTW - What happened to the wreck of the Graf Spee? No one ever seems to know.
Speaking of the Scharnhorst (and Gneisneau), they really should have been included in the game. I don;t know if they would be very easy to make using existing parts, either.
iambecomelife
09-24-05, 04:43 PM
:o Really?!! I never heard that - If anyone has a link, could you post it? This is very interesting...
BTW - What happened to the wreck of the Graf Spee? No one ever seems to know.
Speaking of the Scharnhorst (and Gneisneau), they really should have been included in the game. I don;t know if they would be very easy to make using existing parts, either.
Most of the "Graf Spee" is still in shallow water off Montevideo. Interestingly, some of her hull plates were used during the war to repair the "Carnarvon Castle", a British AMC that had been badly damaged by a German commerce raider. A couple of years ago some divers visited the wreck to monitor its state, although I don't remember whether or not it's in good condition.
Syxx_Killer
09-24-05, 05:18 PM
:o Really?!! I never heard that - If anyone has a link, could you post it? This is very interesting...
BTW - What happened to the wreck of the Graf Spee? No one ever seems to know.
Speaking of the Scharnhorst (and Gneisneau), they really should have been included in the game. I don;t know if they would be very easy to make using existing parts, either.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure the documentary was on The History Channel. Norwegians discovered it back in 2000. Here is a link I found after Googling it for a bit. I'm sure you could find more if you Google it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/scharnhorst_04.shtml
I did some searching - the Yamato and Musashi have been found too.
Wulfmann
09-24-05, 07:39 PM
The Bismarck has been re-found 4 or 5 times now, one Australian guy took a little sub down and saw it with his own eyes.
Uruguay says it is raising the Graf Spee. I did a story on her and went to Uruguay in 1997 for research.. They have brought up parts, a 150MM was all that had been salvaged when I visited but since the gunnery director and other stuff has been retrieved.
Bismarck is so deep she (err, he) will survive long after the youngest here has died but most ships will have been eaten by Rusticles in the near future.
Not sure I can agree with the statement the Scharnhorst magazines exploded. The Germans had moved the ammunition from the forward magazine to the stern turret after the A&B were knocked out and claimed to have fired every shell.
It is possible they left brass cases, the charges and some ammo, who knows. Not saying that was not the case but believe it adds to the mystery somewhat.
Wulfmann
iambecomelife
09-24-05, 08:26 PM
The Bismarck has been re-found 4 or 5 times now, one Australian guy took a little sub down and saw it with his own eyes.
Uruguay says it is raising the Graf Spee. I did a story on her and went to Uruguay in 1997 for research.. They have brought up parts, a 150MM was all that had been salvaged when I visited but since the gunnery director and other stuff has been retrieved.
Bismarck is so deep she (err, he) will survive long after the youngest here has died but most ships will have been eaten by Rusticles in the near future.
Not sure I can agree with the statement the Scharnhorst magazines exploded. The Germans had moved the ammunition from the forward magazine to the stern turret after the A&B were knocked out and claimed to have fired every shell.
It is possible they left brass cases, the charges and some ammo, who knows. Not saying that was not the case but believe it adds to the mystery somewhat.
Wulfmann
Is any of the ship still visible, or is the entire thing below the harbor surface? I've been up close to an old wrecked merchant ship, and that thing was impressive despite being only a 2000-3000 ton civilian vessel. A WWII-era capital ship would be an amazing sight.
There are still a lot of old relics that need to be found. I hope someone gets around to diving the "Indianapolis" and the Japanese carriers from Midway. I know that Dr. Ballard found a small piece of the "Kaga", but missed the main debris site.
BTW, bad news with the factory ship - the game seems to be rejecting my 3d changes. Instead of a large modded ship it gave me the standard small tanker when I went into museum mode. :damn:
Wulfmann
09-25-05, 09:15 AM
The Graf Spee is past the three mile limit off the coast of Montevideo.
It sank to the deck but a huge storm pushed it on its side. Over the years it settled deep into the soft mud of the River Plate. This has been what has preserved the Graf Spee and while it makes salvaging her more difficult there would be little left to salvage if it were not for the preserving mud.
The Graf Spee is in two pieces. Langstorff set off the charges himself so no one else would be responsible. They used the torpedo warheads as detonators for the main magazines.. The captain pulled the activation chords from a boat and they left. The after magazine blew the latter part of the ship away (remember the pictures of the twisted after turret) but the forward charges did not go off and the water tight doors being left open to insure her sinking, allowed water to rush forward so the fire did not ignite the charges either. The ship was intended to be much more seriously destroyed but was bad enough the British could not raise the ship and repair it.
The Graf Spee was not scuttled because of the belief a big squadron was waiting for her. Her boiler was destroyed in the battle with Harwood's cruisers. Because the Graf Spee was diesel powered it used a heavy slug like oil for fuel that had to be thinned with this now destroyed boiler. Without thinning this fuel is like fudge in consistency so there was literally no way the ship could move. They used what little thinned fuel they had to crawl outside the harbor to blow up the ship. She could not move so there was no choice other than letting the ship fall into the hands of the British because Uruguay was extremely pro-British.
I wrote a story about this in the World and I magazine in Dec 1999 issue. The grandson of the Uruguayan ambassador that handled the negotiations with all parties emailed me stating I was the first person to finally explain what actually happened.
I asked AP if they would like to revise their annual anniversary blurb and they politely basically said they didn't care what really happened.
They preferred the story wrongly told. Who can argue with mainstream media?
Wulfmann
Charlie901
09-29-05, 02:34 PM
My prayers have finally been answered:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=43572
iambecomelife
09-29-05, 04:01 PM
The Graf Spee is past the three mile limit off the coast of Montevideo.
It sank to the deck but a huge storm pushed it on its side. Over the years it settled deep into the soft mud of the River Plate. This has been what has preserved the Graf Spee and while it makes salvaging her more difficult there would be little left to salvage if it were not for the preserving mud.
The Graf Spee is in two pieces. Langstorff set off the charges himself so no one else would be responsible. They used the torpedo warheads as detonators for the main magazines.. The captain pulled the activation chords from a boat and they left. The after magazine blew the latter part of the ship away (remember the pictures of the twisted after turret) but the forward charges did not go off and the water tight doors being left open to insure her sinking, allowed water to rush forward so the fire did not ignite the charges either. The ship was intended to be much more seriously destroyed but was bad enough the British could not raise the ship and repair it.
The Graf Spee was not scuttled because of the belief a big squadron was waiting for her. Her boiler was destroyed in the battle with Harwood's cruisers. Because the Graf Spee was diesel powered it used a heavy slug like oil for fuel that had to be thinned with this now destroyed boiler. Without thinning this fuel is like fudge in consistency so there was literally no way the ship could move. They used what little thinned fuel they had to crawl outside the harbor to blow up the ship. She could not move so there was no choice other than letting the ship fall into the hands of the British because Uruguay was extremely pro-British.
I wrote a story about this in the World and I magazine in Dec 1999 issue. The grandson of the Uruguayan ambassador that handled the negotiations with all parties emailed me stating I was the first person to finally explain what actually happened.
I asked AP if they would like to revise their annual anniversary blurb and they politely basically said they didn't care what really happened.
They preferred the story wrongly told. Who can argue with mainstream media?
Wulfmann
Yeah; the press can be clueless about military matters. I'm a little tired of seeing reporters call B-1B's "fighters", or Bradleys and M-109's "tanks".
BTW, I've finally created a new ship model that actually incorporates structural changes with 3d editing. It's a generic tanker based on the many non-mass produced ships you could find before the war. I'd like to make some changes, such as enlarging the funnel and using different cranes. It would also be a good idea to shrink the hull so that it can represent a ship smaller than he T-3. Th game is biased in favor of large merchant ships, thus making it too easy to rack up impressive scores. A real U-Boat skipper would consider a vessel of 10,000 tons or more to be a real prize; most of the successful patrols I've studied show the largest vessel sunk to be maybe 7500-8000 tons max.
A screenshot, with one of the default t-3 for comparison.
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1222/tank16ye.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6074/tank29wh.jpg
stljeffbb1
09-29-05, 04:17 PM
Cool! This game is going to have TONS of different shipping now!
-Jeff
Wulfmann
09-29-05, 06:24 PM
The T3 is the best looking merchant in SH3, IMO. Making a smaller version would be super. The stock tankers T2 and T3 are nearly identical in tonnage yet the T3 is 2-3 times the actual mass in displacement, (guessing).
I have made the T2 about 5400 tons in my game as part of my efforts to get my scores less ridiculous in comparison to the "real" Kaleuns.
I removed most of the T3s (sniff!) so it is very rare and, as you said, a real prize. Since doing that I have seen one T3.
That would be so cool to have an additional good looking tanker and one with a reasonable tonnage to help “not” run up and artificial score.
Wulfmann
iambecomelife
09-30-05, 03:50 PM
The T3 is the best looking merchant in SH3, IMO. Making a smaller version would be super. The stock tankers T2 and T3 are nearly identical in tonnage yet the T3 is 2-3 times the actual mass in displacement, (guessing).
I have made the T2 about 5400 tons in my game as part of my efforts to get my scores less ridiculous in comparison to the "real" Kaleuns.
I removed most of the T3s (sniff!) so it is very rare and, as you said, a real prize. Since doing that I have seen one T3.
That would be so cool to have an additional good looking tanker and one with a reasonable tonnage to help “not” run up and artificial score.
Wulfmann
Wow; that must have been a lot of work. The game's campaign layers frequently use "generic tanker" as a spawning entry, so did you actually go through and change all of them to, say, T-2's or small tankers?
I'm still trying to create additional ships as a way of ultimately reducing tonnage scores and making convoys look more diverse. The process is still a little hit and miss; today I built an altered liberty ship as a WWI-era freighter but the game refused to recognize any of the 3d changes. The process seems kind of arbitrary, IMHO. I know one rule with Wings3d is that you must never move an object with the "y" axis or it will not display. Does anyone know of other possible problems with 3d editing of the obj files? I must have done something else wrong, since I made sure not to break that "y" axis rule for the new ship I attempted.
thasaint
10-01-05, 04:57 PM
If the whale factory will not be classified as a tanker, what classification will you use"
Few older warships survived the scrapper’s torch.
Actually, some US battleships weren't scrapped but were sunk as targets instead :huh:. This is a list of US battleships from WW2, not including cancelled ones but including ones used as training ships:
Utah (converted to Aerial Target Ship in WW2) - Sunk at Pealr Harbour.
Wyoming (converted to Training Ship in WW2) - Scrapped 1947.
Arkansas - Sunk as A-Bomb target 1946.
New York - Sunk as target 1948.
Texas - Donated as Museum 1948.
Nevada - Sunk as target 1948.
Oklahama - Destroyed in Pear Harbour, wreck sank under tow to scrapyard 1946.
Pennsylvania - Sunk as target 1948.
Arizona - Sunk at Pearl Harbour.
New Mexico - Scrapped 1948.
Idaho - Scrapped 1948.
Mississippi - Scrapped 1956 after being used as training ship.
Tennessee - Scrapped 1958.
California - Scrapped 1958.
Colorado - Scrapped 1958.
Maryland - Scrapped 1958.
West Virginia - Scrapped 1961.
Washington - Scrapped 1962.
North Carolina - Museum Ship 1962.
South Dakota - Scrapped 1962.
Alabama - Museum Ship 1962.
Massachusettes - Museum Ship 1962.
Indiana - Scrapped 1962.
Iowa - Still in Reserve?
New Jersey - Museum Ship.
Missouri - Museum Ship.
Wisconsin - Still in Reserve?
Too bad a couple of the Pearl Harbour survivors couldn't have benn kept as museums too. I also never understood why the carrier Enterprise was scrapped.
There was no shortage of US battleships in WW2, and yet there is not one in SH3 :nope:. Of course, most were used almost exclusively in the Pacific anyway.
yeah i wholeheartedly agree on big E being scrapped, with the carrier surviving the whole war and taking part in so many important battles
iambecomelife
10-15-05, 08:06 PM
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9160/merchantprofile4ih.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3197/merchantangle5ha.jpg
Parent Unit
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/594/parent2uk.jpg
Wings 3d can be fun, even though I'm still trying to get the hang of it. Here's a pic of another generic cargo ship I created. It's still a WIP because I haven't done anything about the reflections from the altered items; also, the skins need some work. Amazingly, I managed to get the flag attached to a part of the mast on my first try; I was afraid it would be floating in thin air. I'm going to release this along with some other ships in my successor to the Merchant Variety Pack. Now we can have variety in terms of ships' shapes, and not just skin colors.
:o :up: Finally, more new merchants!
Looks quite a bit different than the parent unit, especially the masts. I would recommend changing the bridge though, but if you can't it doesn't really matter. BTW - what will the tonnage be, and how big is the model compared to the original?
iambecomelife
10-15-05, 09:04 PM
:o :up: Finally, more new merchants!
Looks quite a bit different than the parent unit, especially the masts. I would recommend changing the bridge though, but if you can't it doesn't really matter. BTW - what will the tonnage be, and how big is the model compared to the original?
Unfortunately the model is the same size as the original commerce raider because of texturing and weapons-placement errors that occur if you change the size. The tonnage is going to be a lot less than 17,000 tons - I'm thinking between 4500 and 6000, with a preference for the smaller figure. This is intended to correct the game's bias in favor of very large cargo ships, which several other people have also complained about. I tried to alter the bridge but it created some nightmarishly deformed 3d objects, so I think I'll leave it alone. I think I'll use this hull for one more dry cargo ship - one with a tall, thin stack so that it looks like something from WWI or the early 1920's. After that I'll see if I can actually make a tanker or ore carrier out of this thing by moving the funnel aft and removing all that midships clutter.
TLAM Strike
10-15-05, 09:07 PM
Here is something I'm working on for another sim, but the model will be freely available for all moders including you SHIII folks. ;)
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1636/010xo.jpg
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9718/024xu.jpg
Just don't expect it to be done anytime soon... :roll:
iambecomelife
10-15-05, 09:40 PM
The 'Tone'! Fantastic! :up: With models like that maybe "Pacific Aces II" could be possible! What's more, we already have a ton of ships that were used over there, like the KGV class, Fletchers, Somers, etc. All we need are some Japanese warship models. Have you made any other Pacific Theatre warships?
TLAM Strike
10-15-05, 10:13 PM
Have you made any other Pacific Theatre warships? Other than the S Boat no. In the future I may make the HIJMS Unyo (A Taiyo class Escort Carrier) or something else from the PTO but I have two projects (in addition to the Tone) that I need to finish first.
Oh BTW those other two projects are a BMP-1 IFV and Zulu IV class submarine.
sergbuto
10-16-05, 03:10 AM
The tonnage is going to be a lot less than 17,000 tons - I'm thinking between 4500 and 6000
4500 for a 155m ship? :o How realistic is that? The very smallest tonnage for such a kind of vessel is not less than 8000.
Wulfmann
10-16-05, 02:36 PM
Look at the stock T2 and T3 nearly identicle in tonnage. The T3 is twice as wide. I dare say it is double or more the displacement. I made my T2 5100 tons(its model is smaller than a C2 or C3).
I made the PTR 3800tons and your cargo 4400 tons.
Reality is a 15K average per patrol if you are very good.
To each his own but when real becomes important, that is the first relevant number, IMO
Wulfmann
Commander1980
10-16-05, 03:27 PM
The given tonnage of the ships in sh3 is not the gross (register) tonnage, but the displacement (= the actual weight of the ship with its content/ tons of water displaced / mass of the ship). So it does not make such a great difference, when the ship is twice as wide. Warships were measured in displacement since the 1860s, when this figure replaced the old length/breadth calculations.
I am not sure, but i think during world war 2 the displacement was also used for merchant ships. Because this measurement is senseless for merchant ships ( it does not say anything about the cargo value that can be carried), the gross tonnage was introduced some years later.
Another question: Does anyone know, what class our River-class destroyer escort represents?
sergbuto
10-16-05, 03:53 PM
To each his own but when real becomes important, that is the first relevant number, IMO
Real is real. If one thing is real and another is not, their sum will never be real.
If you want low tonnage use appropriate ship models. There are some in the game.
Syxx_Killer
10-16-05, 04:41 PM
Here is something I'm working on for another sim, but the model will be freely available for all moders including you SHIII folks. ;)
Just don't expect it to be done anytime soon... :roll:
That looks pretty good. What kind of ship is that, anyway?
TLAM Strike
10-16-05, 05:21 PM
Here is something I'm working on for another sim, but the model will be freely available for all moders including you SHIII folks. ;)
Just don't expect it to be done anytime soon... :roll:
That looks pretty good. What kind of ship is that, anyway? A Japanese 'Tone' class Heavy Cruiser.
iambecomelife
10-16-05, 06:54 PM
To each his own but when real becomes important, that is the first relevant number, IMO
Real is real. If one thing is real and another is not, their sum will never be real.
If you want low tonnage use appropriate ship models. There are some in the game.
I think I''ll stick with the lower tonnage value, simply for the sake of having more realistic tonnage scores. Using the smaller hulls to represent medium-sized ships is just too difficult because these vessels are exceptionally small - particularly the coastal merchant. They'd look quite unconvincing as 4000-4500-tonners, and resizing them typically causes texture and 3d-model distortion.
I was browsing Uboat.net and wasn't surprised to see that very few of the vessels sunk were over 10000 tons. In fact, I'd say a majority were less than 5000. Yet in spite of this 25% of the stock merchants are 10000 tons or more. 75% are over 5000 tons. This is made even worse by the fact that one of the "light" merchants is the LST, which hardly ever appears. Since I'm unable to adapt the small merchant and coastal merchant hulls to my purposes I'll probably just use the larger ships, for the most part. We badly need some classes of lighter merchants to skew the tonnage scores downward, and I don't want to wait until the texturing/object placement problems with the current tools are solved.
Longtime lurker, first time poster...
@Commander1980
SHIII blends both gross register tons and displacement.
Merchant ships use gross register tons and warships are by displacement. This is the same way scores were kept for U-boat captains.
Liberty ships are around 7176 GRT, but have a displacement of 14,245 tons.
For the River class, I'm so sure what you mean. There actually was a River class, some 138 being completed by Britain, Canada, and Austrailia. They were built to overcome the limitations of the Flower class. The design was referred to as a twin screw corvette, later it was classed as a frigate when the British reintroduced the term in 1942.
@Wulfmann
The beam on the T3 is a typo. The T3 was roughly 30 ft longer, less
than 10 ft wider and had a 2 ft deeper draft than the T2. Gross tonnage was just shy of 1000 tons greater for the T3.
As for a new ship type, I want to sink the HMS Ark Royal!
sergbuto
10-17-05, 02:32 AM
They'd look quite unconvincing as 4000-4500-tonners, and resizing them typically causes texture and 3d-model distortion.
Small tanker definitly looks like a 4000-tonner to me.
Commander1980
10-17-05, 02:42 AM
Ah thank you for that information ;)
@river-class
I don't think that the sh3 River-class is actually a river-class, just compare them.
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/340/river4gg.jpg
looks not like the same class of ship :roll:
sergbuto
10-17-05, 03:28 AM
Ah thank you for that information ;)
@river-class
I don't think that the sh3 River-class is actually a river-class, just compare them.
It is just scaled down A,B,C,D-class destroyer. In Canada, all the C-class destroyers were re-classified as River class.
Small tanker definitly looks like a 4000-tonner to me.
Can the small tanker hull be used for something? Maybe a different looking tanker or (with a lot of editing) a 4500 ton freighter? And waht about the C2, C3, and Transport? (although they are bigger)[/quote]
Commander1980
10-17-05, 11:55 AM
Can the small tanker hull be used for something? Maybe a different looking tanker or (with a lot of editing) a 4500 ton freighter? And waht about the C2, C3, and Transport? (although they are bigger)
yep, i think this is possible. Why not try it? :)
Unfortunately, I have too much work to do in university - and I've fallen behind in following developments of Sansal's tool (I couldn't use the DOS version). I also have no experience in 3D modelling. Maybe I could give it a try though...
But for now, could someone else try something with this hull?
iambecomelife
10-17-05, 04:22 PM
Small tanker definitly looks like a 4000-tonner to me.
Can the small tanker hull be used for something? Maybe a different looking tanker or (with a lot of editing) a 4500 ton freighter? And waht about the C2, C3, and Transport? (although they are bigger)[/quote]
http://www.armed-guard.com/39201.jpg
There's a catch. Historically, the two-deckhouse arrangement you see on so many tankers was used for very few freighters. Occasionally it occurred, especially on early bulk carriers like the "Marore" (seen here) and the "Amerikaland". However, virtually all dry cargo ships had the superstructure more or less amidships - think Liberty Ship, C-2, Coastal Merchant, etc. I have plans to use the small tanker as a collier, as well as an old-fashioned coastal tanker, but I don't see it as feasible for a midships-deckhouse freighter. This may just be because of my rudimentary 3d editing skills, but for me altering the hull plates and bridge typically causes severe distortion of the ship in Wings3d.
I recently came close to completing an ore freighter based on the NKGN model. It looked decent but there were some errors with the texturing and hull plates, so I decided to start over. I'll take a crack at it tonight and try to post some screenshots.
iambecomelife
10-17-05, 04:49 PM
BTW, it just occurred to me that a "Bellona" class cruiser for the British would be extremely easy to make - basically a "Dido" with sheer funnels and 8 5.25" guns. I don't know offhand if SH3 has those guns but the twin mountings from the J class destroyer should suffice. Maybe something for me to do if I manage to get my cargo ships straightened out...
coronas
10-17-05, 08:42 PM
A good ship as fast merchant (up 20 knots) With two funnels? 7.000 Tons?
iambecomelife
10-17-05, 08:59 PM
A good ship as fast merchant (up 20 knots) With two funnels? 7.000 Tons?
It should be possible. Speed is easy to edit, and it's almost as easy to add a new funnel to a ship.
iambecomelife
10-17-05, 10:13 PM
:damn: :damn: :damn:
I just finished another attack on that ore carrier model. It didn't work because pack3d keeps rejecting models that contain parts from new ships, even when I merge them into one object. Specifically, I'm trying to give the Large Cargo an enlarged version of the coastal merchant's bridge. I think it has something to do with the textures. Occasionally this process works but I still don't know why; it seems almost arbitrary whether or not pack3d will accept the changes. Still, I'm glad we have something to use for our ship mods.
For some reason pack3d had no trouble merging the coastal merchant's funnel with the ship I'm using, so I'll try combining the funnel and bridge as one object.
Commander1980
10-18-05, 02:03 AM
:damn: :damn: :damn:
I just finished another attack on that ore carrier model. It didn't work because pack3d keeps rejecting models that contain parts from new ships, even when I merge them into one object.
hmm, i have no problems using other ships parts. Did you cloned the unit again after importing?
Cdre Gibs
10-18-05, 03:31 AM
BTW, it just occurred to me that a "Bellona" class cruiser for the British would be extremely easy to make - basically a "Dido" with sheer funnels and 8 5.25" guns. I don't know offhand if SH3 has those guns but the twin mountings from the J class destroyer should suffice. Maybe something for me to do if I manage to get my cargo ships straightened out...
The Didio's main guns are 5.25" and she has 10 of them.
Same Turret/Gun as the KGV 2nd Guns. Alter the funnels and drop the C Turret and bingo, all done.
Commander1980
10-18-05, 04:49 AM
Another ship that can be modded is the London-class Heavy cruiser:
"Between 1938 and 1941 London was given a completely new appearance, with a block bridge, hangers abreast the fore funnel formed rearward extensions of the bridge, two funnels, improved AA armament and redistributed armour, resembling the larger of the two types of war-built cruisers, the Fiji class, though still retaining her eight 8-inch guns in twin turrets."
Armament: "Armament: 4 dual 8-inch / 50 Mk 8 ; 4 single 4-inch / 45 QF Mk 5 HA (4 further 4-inch added, 4 dual Mk 16 in London) ; 2 quad and 4 single 2 pdr ; 2 quad 0.5-inch AA (added 1936-1939) ; 2 quad 21-inch TT. ; 1 seaplane (later 3)"
from http://www.world-war.co.uk/
It can be done, with scaling her up. As sergbuto said, this is possible.
The rounded bridge of the Fiji can be flattened someway i think. The funnels somewhat greater in diameter. The only problem are the addional 4 inch turrets (amidships) but this can be done with using other nodes, and replacing nodes is easy, as Sansal said. :)
And of course, the armour has to be adjusted.
Anyone? :)
Iambecomelife, any luck on that ore carrier yet? I would personally like to see an ore carrier in the game - some of them looked a lot like regular freighters though.
Iambecomelife, any luck on that ore carrier yet? I would personally like to see an ore carrier in the game - some of them looked a lot like regular freighters though.
iambecomelife
10-18-05, 06:22 PM
I'm working on it as we speak. Still having an awful time with the textures and bridgework. Seriously, I could have created 2 or 3 new ships at least in the time I've been wrestling with this, but this is PERSONAL now. :P I came so close to having a releasable model of it, so I have to try and get it right.
I think the problem texture-wise may have something to do with the ship being multiple-skin capable. Maybe that's why Commander1980 doesn't have as many problems with his warships, which are usually one texture with the tga in tlowres\tex.
Marhkimov
10-18-05, 06:31 PM
Maybe you could create your ships with only single texture capability, and then once you are finished, make it so that it supports multiple textures?
It could possibly work... Just as sergbuto made the C3 capable of supporting multiple skins.
Or maybe it has nothing to do with multi or single skins... I dunno
iambecomelife
10-18-05, 06:53 PM
You know, maybe if I use something other than wings3d the 3d editing process won't mess up the texture arrangements. Does anyone know of a good freeware 3d editor compatible with .obj files? Someone posted a link to a free program based on Maya, but that post is lost in the archives.
:up:
Maybe you could make it with only one skin, although it would be better with multiple skins.
Whenever you get it finished, could you post a screenshot or two? Did you say earlier it is going to have the bridge from the coastal merchant? That would be good, as the bridge of the Large Cargo looks too modern.
BTW - If different parts can be taken from different ships, can the bridge of the Transport be removed? It would be useful in making freighters such as these:
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/893.html
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/421.html
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/104.html
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/257.html
This looks like an easy one to make (I think). It could use the hull of the Transport, maybe, and the bridge of the Large Cargo.
[url]http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2103.html
Maybe this one could be developed out of a scaled-down C2.
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/379.html
Maybe this one could use the Transport's bridge and the Large Cargo's hull? Over 10,000 tons though... :o
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/925.html
I'm not sure why, but I think this one could possibly be made from a Small Tanker, with a combination of superstructure parts from the Small Merchant and Coastal Merchant.
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2784.html
Sorry if I'm boring everyone with useless endless ideas, but I just like to put this stuff out on the table, in case anyone is looking for ideas.
Marhkimov
10-18-05, 07:13 PM
Here are the same images posted by AG124, except without having to click. :up:
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/br/lassel.jpg
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/gr/ia.jpg
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/br/pensilva.jpg
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/nl/den_haag.jpg
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/ca/rose_castle.jpg
This looks like an easy one to make (I think). It could use the hull of the Transport, maybe, and the bridge of the Large Cargo.
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/nl/zuiderkerk.jpg
Maybe this one could be developed out of a scaled-down C2.
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/nw/randsfjord.jpg
Maybe this one could use the Transport's bridge and the Large Cargo's hull? Over 10,000 tons though... :o
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/br/rodney_star.jpg
I'm not sure why, but I think this one could possibly be made from a Small Tanker, with a combination of superstructure parts from the Small Merchant and Coastal Merchant.
http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/pa/granville.jpg
iambecomelife
10-18-05, 07:28 PM
Nice pics. I usually find these ships a lot more interesting to look at than modern-day ships. You still run into them sometimes - for instance, when I visited Canada near Lake Ontario I saw an in-service, 40's-50's bulk carrier that looked a lot like the tanker below.
I'll definitely try to create some vessels like the ones below once this whole fiasco blows over. I might have created a viable model for this thing just now; in a few minutes I'm going into Museum mode for a look.
Thanks for posting the pictures - the last time I tried, they wouldn't load (I must have done something wrong).
BTW - Don't feel like I'm rushing anyone on any ships, I'm just trying to stimulate conversation for awhile and brainstorm ideas.
iambecomelife
10-19-05, 12:10 AM
Thanks for posting the pictures - the last time I tried, they wouldn't load (I must have done something wrong).
BTW - Don't feel like I'm rushing anyone on any ships, I'm just trying to stimulate conversation for awhile and brainstorm ideas.
OK... I've almost got her. The model looks awful right now, but it's simply a matter of resizing and repositioning objects, which I can do. It will even be multiple skin capable, so it can sail in the liveries for all the coal companies I can find :D . I actually ended up making the bridge out of the catapult base left over from the NAMC. I think the problem stemmed from the fact that this model does not really have a bridge; what looks like one is actually an integral part of the hull. Because of this, Pack3d must have thought I was trying to add a new object, which is illegal. This explains why the process worked in the past when I tried it with the C-3 and C-2.
And no, I don't feel rushed or anything - If this wasn't fun I wouldn't be spending just about every spare moment of my time doing it. :-? Ideally, my new ships will come out with the Merchant Variety Pack update I'm planning, which will feature neater skins and more companies.
Will the new MVP include new skins for the tugboat, or is it a one-skin only ship?
iambecomelife
10-20-05, 06:34 PM
Unfortunately she's a one-skin wonder, so you'd see one company over and over again. I guess we can pretend some towing mega-corp bought everyone else out on September 1st, 1939.
I'm still trying to get the new merchant screenshot-worthy. I'm having a few texture issues, and one of the cranes seems to have mysteriously vanished. However, I think there's light at the end of the tunnel. At least it's going to be a snap to convert the model into an oil tanker when it's done - a simple matter of adding ventilators, appropriat masts, and removing most of the cranes.
coronas
10-21-05, 06:47 PM
Great work! Animo!
iambecomelife
10-22-05, 12:09 PM
I finally got the ship to look respectable. A few WIP shots...
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7478/ore14pa.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6040/ore29kk.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8189/ore38pt.jpg
Things that remain to be done: reflections, ventilator shaft & derrick rearrangement, and a reworking of the deck textures. Also, if anyone knows how to change the position of the smoke, PLEASE let me know. Some ships did have a dummy funnel and a thin "exhaust pipe", but not many. I'd much prefer to use the aft funnel.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n10000/n13451.jpg
The model's largely based on the "Cyclops", since I couldn't find enough period photos of less-famous ships. I was hoping to use a different bridge to try and disguise the NKGN ancestry, but I think the default one will do. It has to; the other bridges I tried to use were nothing but trouble.
iambecomelife
10-22-05, 12:21 PM
Another thing: With all these non-standard ships being used there would need to be a different naming system for the in-game ships. "Coastal Merchant" doesn't tell you much when there are two or three varieties of it. ATM I'm naming new variants "Merchant 'A'" and so on, because it's hard to describe in brief each ship's unique structural features. However, I'd like to use a different system once they're ready for release...
:o :o :o
:rotfl: :sunny: :|\ :-j :D :arrgh!: :up:
I love it! Its the greatest ship yet made for this game! I will be anxiously awaiting its release.
BTW - What's the tonnage?
(Good idea about the merchant names - if we get a lot of merchants, we will need less confusing names for some).
iambecomelife
10-22-05, 01:02 PM
:o :o :o
:rotfl: :sunny: :|\ :-j :D :arrgh!: :up:
I love it! Its the greatest ship yet made for this game! I will be anxiously awaiting its release.
BTW - What's the tonnage?
(Good idea about the merchant names - if we get a lot of merchants, we will need less confusing names for some).
I'm not sure about the tonnage yet, but I think I'll be generous and make it over 5000 - lol. 8,000 grt might be good, since that was the approximate tonnage of the "Marore".
UBOAT234
10-23-05, 10:42 AM
Hi iambecomelife,
where I can find information and photo or image of ship, merchant, warship?
Can you help me?
Best Regards
UBOAT234
iambecomelife
10-23-05, 04:45 PM
For cargo ship pictures I use this site: http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/
For US warships, try www.navsource.org. I have to look at a lot of different sites to get pics of non-US warships.
Looks great.
The superstructures of the Cyclops were unique, though, weren`t they ? I`ve read that the system of coal transportation was usedonly on this particular ship.
It also seemed that each member of the class looked slightly different, or some of them did anyway.
Another pretty good site for warships, BTW, is:
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
It has some diagrams from side and top angles and a few photos, as well as statistics.
Off topic, Iambecomelife, when will your next MVP with your new ship(s[?]) be ready? And did you ever get anything done with that Whale Factory?
UBOAT234
10-24-05, 11:46 AM
Danke
iambecomelife
10-24-05, 06:08 PM
It also seemed that each member of the class looked slightly different, or some of them did anyway.
Another pretty good site for warships, BTW, is:
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
It has some diagrams from side and top angles and a few photos, as well as statistics.
Off topic, Iambecomelife, when will your next MVP with your new ship(s[?]) be ready? And did you ever get anything done with that Whale Factory?
Unfortunately it's likely to take a while. I'm hoping to get some excellent reference materials over the holiday season - ID books with line drawings of typical ships and literally hundreds of liveries. This is some hard-to-find stuff, which often dates from the 30's and 40's. Assuming I'm successful, I'd estimate a release date of late January 2006.
Re: the whaler: My experience with the ore carrier was frustrating but I learned a LOT about pack3d and wings3d. The factory ship should be a snap to make; it's just moving a tanker's bridge forward, creating the twin funnel arrangement, and maybe placing some additional lifeboats with some whale processing equipment amidships. It would be interesting to feature some whale hunting groups up near the arctic circle in campaign mode, BTW. The Flower Class corvette would make an excellent civilian whale hunting ship; IIRC that is what the civilian vessels were actually based on. In addition, surplus corvettes were sometimes used in this role during the early postwar period.
ATM I'm trying to add some varied merchants of 5000 tons or less. I recently shrank the NKGN into a 4500-5000 tonner with excellent results (what a versatile model!) I only need to move the propeller and gun nodes so that these objects don't wind up floating in midair/midocean.
I would like to see some screenshots of those 4000-5000 tonners when they are ready, if it's possible.
And about that whale factory - from those pictures you showed us earlier, I think the bridge from the T2 would be best, if you could remove it... :hmm: If you could move the bridge, replacing it seems possible to me but maybe I'm wrong.
If the MVP won't be ready until after Christmas, could you release a couple of ships early and add extra skins later?
UBOAT234
10-24-05, 09:31 PM
hi iambecomelife,
I have try pack3d and extract obj file. but i can't modify uv map of the object. Why? is normal (wing 3d) mainly with the first one of the list.
I have also try, MILKSHAPE, and other. Now with 3ds but is complex.
I have other software, for edit uv map: es deep UV, but if I work a file and create a dat file, the system crash when load the unit ship.
Is very frustrating...
have a solution?
best regards
iambecomelife
10-24-05, 09:32 PM
I would like to see some screenshots of those 4000-5000 tonners when they are ready, if it's possible.
And about that whale factory - from those pictures you showed us earlier, I think the bridge from the T2 would be best, if you could remove it... :hmm: If you could move the bridge, replacing it seems possible to me but maybe I'm wrong.
If the MVP won't be ready until after Christmas, could you release a couple of ships early and add extra skins later?
IMHO I'm not a big fan of the t-2. Maybe it's just me but I swear the SH2 T-2 looked much better. I recall that the funnel was more detailed, the proportions more accurate, and the bridge much more similar to a real T-2's. Then there's the skinning issue; while I was making the MVP that ...THING broke my heart several times over. Imagine - no company logos even POSSIBLE for such a vital ship. :down: Hats off to the SH3 devs, though, for outstanding Victory and Liberty Ship versions.
I don't want to release screeshots of the new stuff just yet - believe me, it's kind of bizarre. But I will if I manage to get the node problem straightened out; Commander1980's been really helpful w/this.
I am considering releasing the CAM ship if I can resolve the difficulty with the hurricane skin. I have the 'cane on deck and a catapult is a simple matter - the only problem is that it's textured as the merchant's hull :88) . Nobody wants a mod with such a glaring flaw. However, as I said, if this is resolved I'm pretty likely to release it. I think the average UBoat fan knows something of the CAM ships, and the whole concept is quite novel & exciting. OTOH I get the feeling that most simmers aren't as interested in run-of-the-mill cargo ships, and may enjoy encounters with more "glamorous" battleships, cruisers, and carriers more. If I release a dozen or so new cargo vessels with hundreds of skins that will generate a buzz among even the more casually interested players, whereas if they're released in a trickle people may not bother to download them. I will probably only release most of the merchants as single after the main pack comes out, in order to accomodate people with slower connections.
BTW, I've said this before, but wouldn't it be a good idea for the next generation of subsims to randomize the 3d size and features of ships? You could have a few dozen bridges, several crane styles, and hulls in "segments" that would govern the length (and, incidentally, allow for more interesting vessel breakups). You could go for several patrols without seeing the same ship, barring the usual mass produced types.
Oh, and could anyone familiar with texture/3d editing PLEASE help me with this CAM ship Hurricane skin problem? Don't be shy if you're a lurker; I really want to get a solution here.
I guess that does sound like a good idea, although it might be a good idea to release a couple of smaller merchants early as there is a demand for this type of ship. It's entirely up to you, of course. I personally don't have much time to play right now anyway because of university, but I would like to receive a new MVP over the holidays (early 2006 is alright too).
iambecomelife
10-29-05, 06:49 PM
hi iambecomelife,
I have try pack3d and extract obj file. but i can't modify uv map of the object. Why? is normal (wing 3d) mainly with the first one of the list.
I have also try, MILKSHAPE, and other. Now with 3ds but is complex.
I have other software, for edit uv map: es deep UV, but if I work a file and create a dat file, the system crash when load the unit ship.
Is very frustrating...
have a solution?
best regards
Sorry, but I'm not that familiar with the modifications you describe. I've only been repositioning 3d objects and occasionally modifying dimensions, vertex points, etc - not UV mapping.
BTW - Iambecomelife, I know you're not releasing your merchants yet, but I was just wondering how it was coming along and if you are having succes with any new ones?
I am trying some 3d editing with the Transport and Small Merchant, but it will take some time to get used to it (what is this option I should select when making 3d changes? The one which keeps the textures from being screwed up, I think?) I haven't made any real progress yet.
Hopefully, someone will eventually post a brief tutorial on how to import objects from other ships (cranes, funnels, etc.) and how to position them.
iambecomelife
10-29-05, 08:54 PM
BTW - Iambecomelife, I know you're not releasing your merchants yet, but I was just wondering how it was coming along and if you are having succes with any new ones?
I am trying some 3d editing with the Transport and Small Merchant, but it will take some time to get used to it (what is this option I should select when making 3d changes? The one which keeps the textures from being screwed up, I think?) I haven't made any real progress yet.
Hopefully, someone will eventually post a brief tutorial on how to import objects from other ships (cranes, funnels, etc.) and how to position them.
I can't really give advice about preventing texture problems because I'm having a LOT of them right now. I'm working on the C-2 and it keeps on getting displayed with the deck textured as the hull, and vice versa. This isn't funny anymore :damn: . I thought I'd found out how to avoid this, but apparently not.
Inserting objects from other ships is easy; just use pack3d to extract all 3d objects on a ship and save the extracted funnel, mast or whatever as the corresponding object on the unit you're editing. For instance, if you wanted a small merchant funnel on a C-2 you would extract all of the small merchant's files in pack3d, save NKSS_cosh as NKLS_cosh, fire up Pack3d, and import the modded NKLS_cosh where the original went. There is a directory tree in Pack3d that opens up to list all of the 3d components, making it easy to insert the objects you've modified. I use trial and error to position the objects correctly.
iambecomelife
11-02-05, 07:03 PM
Still no progress with the textures. Strange that I managed to edit the hull of the NKGN just fine for the ore carrier and short-funneled merchant, but ran into so many texture problems with the stock ships. The error always occurs when I edit the hull, and occurs immediately after using pack3d. When I detail in Pack3d what texture each portion of the hull should be, Pack3d gives me a Java error.
What are you making from a C2 anyway? Could another hull be sufficient, or could you use an unedited hull - probably not but I don't know.
iambecomelife
11-02-05, 07:23 PM
I'm using the C-2 for a class of freighter mass produced by the British starting circa 1941. Many of these ships had the "Empire" prefix to their names, although this could be applied to any British merchant vessel regardless of class. A typical example would be the "Empire Tide", one of the few survivors from PQ-17. Here's a pic of her postwar:
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/ships/1941/EMPIRE_TIDE_945.jpg
I think her superstructure didn't have those "streamlined" corners until after the war.
snowsub
11-07-05, 06:14 PM
@ iambecomelife (or anyonelse)
Please lets us know if you get a handle on the texture mixups with new ships.
I've been modding the AuxCruiser for my model of the sister ships of Blue Star Lines - Refrigerated Cargo Liners (www.bluestarline.org/sydney1.html)
And the adjustments I've made to the superstructure made the textures go to sh*t lol.
I've got timber deck textures all over the hull and bits and pieces everywhere. :oops:
At the moment I'm concentrating on changing the model and getting the cranes in and places changed etc (this being my 1st model, you'd think using solidworks in my job this would have been easy, but no so :damn: )
I'm also gathering to get rid of some of the guns from the auxcruiser I'd edit the .esp (sp??) file to make then non-existant until latter on??
Anyway i'll keep plodding on and get around to textures later.
Snowsub
Did you see my Pyro class Ammunition Freighter thread? I am working on the same parent unit (Transport) and have had relatively minor texture problems. The changes I made to the superstructure involved mainly lowering most of it so that the deck was flush aft of the bridge; I also replaced the vents with cranes, moved the funnel and rear mast without any effect on textures. Have a look at the screenshots in that thread. There are problams visible - are they as bad as your problems with textures?
BTW - Iambecomelife and Sergbuto, are your merchants coming along all right? How many do you have completed, and how many are you still working on? With so many people starting to work on new ships, I have the feeling we will be seeing a lot of them soon, maybe in a month's time. :hmm:
snowsub
11-07-05, 06:52 PM
Yep AG124, saw your WIP, looks cool :up: :up:
My current changes are sliding the rear face of the front superstructure forward nearer the bridge, extending the rear half of the middle supertructure and moving the square piece back nearer the rear, near where the funnels are going to be.
After updating the dat textures went awry :down:
But as noted before I'll try and get the Model down pat 1st.
Notice instances of reflect and shd in the dat (obj's) gathering they do the water reflection and shadows? (Have changed them yet though).
Should I be doing them as I do the main body changes to stop having alot to do later on or just wait till later and update?
iambecomelife
11-07-05, 07:14 PM
Did you see my Pyro class Ammunition Freighter thread? I am working on the same parent unit (Transport) and have had relatively minor texture problems. The changes I made to the superstructure involved mainly lowering most of it so that the deck was flush aft of the bridge; I also replaced the vents with cranes, moved the funnel and rear mast without any effect on textures. Have a look at the screenshots in that thread. There are problams visible - are they as bad as your problems with textures?
BTW - Iambecomelife and Sergbuto, are your merchants coming along all right? How many do you have completed, and how many are you still working on? With so many people starting to work on new ships, I have the feeling we will be seeing a lot of them soon, maybe in a month's time. :hmm:
At the moment my texture issues are so bad I'm not close to releasing anything new. The frustrating thing is that Pack3d used to at least let me work with the NKGN; now, even this is acting up. I might try out an older verion of pack3d. I am also trying to use Maya instead of Wings3d but I'm just not comfortable with it yet. Not only that, but I have no idea if Maya will prevent the texture problems seen with Wings3d. I know that for the ore carrier I had exactly the type of texture error your new model has but in that case at least the hull skin was on the hull. I successfully assigned the deck skin to the correct surfaces with Pack3d's materials menu. Now the NKGN gives me totally blank ships, and the other vessels have the deck all over the hull. I can't wait until someone nails this issue. There's no point in working on 3d editing if the ship's skins are going to be nonexistent or freakish-looking.
AG124, what version of Pack3d are you using? Can you take me step by step through your importation process? Your Pyro Class is noteworthy because you got a vessel other than the NKGN to show the hull correctly. Sorry to be a pain.
iambecomelife
11-07-05, 07:17 PM
BTW, snowsub, I'm really glad someone's working on the Blue Star Line's ships. I've always liked their layout and paint schemes. It would be nice if we could have actual Blue Star passenger/cargo vessels in game, instead of the current Merchant Variety Pack's Victory Ships in Blue Star drag.
Commander1980
11-07-05, 07:27 PM
i've also problems with the texturing when editing the hull. For only doing objects-things, i still use the last non-windows pack3d. Works fine and fast.
I had an idea for a working trap-ship/Q-ship, but the hidden guns do not work fine yet.
As long as the texture problem is not solved, i stop the work on Mahan, and i think and i will complete the Q-ship. Although the Mahan looks very fine so far, 12 meters or ten percent in lenght is nothing you could overlook :roll:
iambecomelife
11-07-05, 07:58 PM
I'd trade a chance to submit 100 models to be adapted by Ubisoft's devs for one program that could handle texturing, node placement, and 3d editing accurately. I definitely don't intend to slight Sansal or any other tool-makers, who have done amazing work for comparatively little recognition and no pay.
However, I have a feeling we can solve this. I remember when it seemed impossible to get the Merchant Variety Pack to work, but eventually it happened. I rememeber creating the Hospital Ship shortly after getting SH3 and thinking it would never be released becuase of the museum CTD-bug, but sure enough, we found a way around that. I also remember cloning units the old-fashioned way for hours on end, knowing that one mistake could ruin the file and thinking it would take us weeks to produce a mere aircraft. Now, the process takes secconds. We've come too far for a couple of puny mtl files to stop us - we'll definitely find a way. :up:
Don't worry, you're not being a pain. I will see of there is anything I can do to help. :up:
I am not sure what version of pack3d I am using - I think it is the first Windows interface release. I downloaded it quite some time ago; I know that.
These are the steps I took with the NPTR:
- I copied them to a folder on the desktop and named them NFRT - I originally intended to make a regular style freighter first (SS Rose Castle).
- I cloned the unit, then extracted the files. The program only extracted an empty folder first, so I closed it an tried again. This doesn't always happen. I didn't rename any of the extracted files.
- After opening them in Wings3d, I used the function you showed me to eliminate the superstructure parts I didn't want - I right clicked, chose to move on the y axis, and lowered the superstructure to deck level. The first lowered part caused the mistexturing you see in the screenshots, the rest of the changes caused no problems.
- I removed some of the vents and lifeboats by reducing their uniform scale to 0%.
- I replaced three sets of double vents with cranes, and eventually replaced the forward mast as well. The double cranes appear to be the same colour as the hull, except for the small one from the troopship, which is still white.
- Each time I made a change, I reimported the model - one change at a time (well, after a while, 2 or 3 changes at a time). I accessed the .dat, chose the part I wanted to replace, and imported over it.
I am going to try some changes to the Small Merchant, TugBoat, and maybe the Liberty Ship starting this Thursday. I may have the Ammunition Freighter ready for release at this time as well.
One thing I can't figure out is how to reposition the flag, and smoke. I would also like to know how to set compartments and deck cargo areas. :-?
snowsub
11-07-05, 09:13 PM
Cool, we're all on the same probs, now we just have to fix them lol.
I'm doing it how you are AG, one piece at a time, but the loading times for SH3 are the time killer :hulk: .
Pretty sure my Pack3D is the latest.
iambecomelife: I chose the Bluestar ships basically cuase they had stats/pics and for the sister ships there are 10 ships (looks like only the type of cranes were different and small changes to superstructure). Actually found them on a site that has merchant casualties for ww2 - dates, tonnages and how damaged - I saved the website but I'd have to be at home to link it :dead: .
Can you do the same pick and drag with maya? and can you numerically imput adjust the faces etc? that's what I miss with Wings, unless I'm not doing it right ;)
I'll be doing more and when i get the model look down pat I'll post some WIP shots.
Good luck all
Edit: Found the site lol
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/merchant_navy_losses.htm
Is the site uboat.net?
http://uboat.net/
Never mind - guess it wasn't uboat.net. :88)
coronas
11-08-05, 01:16 PM
Fantastic work! Another target!! :rock:
Type941
11-08-05, 01:24 PM
:up:
Hi mates,
It's my first post in this thread I guess. Thanks for all you guys who are working on new units. I have a modest request to you. I want to make some new Operations (or perhaps only correct/finish the SCR of Ops mod) and some new and few units are necessary: Italian and Russian Battleships/Heavy cruiser. They can be only a adaptation of the German/US/British units that already are in the game. Is't possible? :hmm:
Rubini.
Is that the Essex class? If it is, then you need to edit the funnel - other than that it is looking good. :up:
The USS Wasp should be an easy ship to make too, since the funnel is smaller.
Rubini, I suppose someone could start working on some Italian and Russian ships, but they would be harder to make from in-game ships. French and Japanese ships would be harder too. And there are still texturing issues with most ships.
There was an Italian team who had a lot of Italian warships built from scratch. Here is a post they provided on another board.
Hello,
I am part of the italian mod team for SH2-DC along with Canarb (I think he presented himself in another post). We would like to start working also on SH3. here is a small list of the models which have been done so far (some need re-texturing):
* BB Cavour
* BB Duilio
* CA Zara
* CA Fiume
* CA Gorizia
* CA Pola
* CVE Miraglia
* TB Curtatone
* PT MS S2
* SS Calvi
* SS Cagni
* SS Perla
* SS Acciaio
* SS Ascianghi
* SS Sirena
* SC CantZ506
* SC Ro43
* TB SM79
* TG Tug
* CA Bolzano
* Penguin raider ship
* SS S-Class
* TG Fishboat
* BB Littorio
* MC 202 aircraft
* Re 2000 aircraft
* CO Gabbiano
* SS U-Class
* TB Orsa
* SS Scire'
* BB Graf Spee
* SS Tritone
* DD Navigatori
* SS Type XXIII
* SS Marconi
* SS Marcello
* SS Brin
Other models are currently under work. Obviously our problem is that we don't know yet how to put them in sh3.
Now we can put new models in the game, but I have heard nothing from them. When it comes to completely new ships, no one is saying much about anything. :-?
(Also, I would classify the Graf Spee as a cruiser, rather than a battleship. :know:)
iambecomelife
11-08-05, 06:34 PM
Outstanding work, Cdr Gibs! That's going to be a must-have for any Pacific mod. It was an excellent decision to concentrate on heavy American units, since we already have/are developing the major British ships that were active in the Pacific (KGV class, Renown/Repulse, Fiji, etc). Now for a Japanese battleship... :hmm:
I hope you manage to adapt that Japanese destroyer in your sig for SH3. I've got an "Atlanta" class cruiser in the works; you may remember some screenshots of the very-cude prerelease version. It can be vastly improved with Pack3d, so I may restart it when I solve my current texturing problems. I've also been thinking a Japanese heavy cruiser could be possible using the Hipper's 8-inch mounts. The turrets' shape is wrong, but at least they're twin mountings and the right caliber.
iambecomelife
11-08-05, 08:50 PM
OK. I have a very strong suspicion that one of the early versions of Pack3d was actually better at texturing multiple skin vessels than the current one. This may account for my early, successful NKGN - based ships. Maybe there's nothing special about that model; it just happened to be the ship I was working on when I had the earlier version. I'm going to look for one of my old pack3d files and try another importation. Maybe we should tell Sansal about this if I'm right - I'd definitely like to have a new version of Pack3d that can handle both nodes and textures.
That's probably why my version is working alright - I have never kept upgrading. Still some problems though - look at the forward deck of the Pyro. Maybe Sansal can fix them completely. :hmm:
snowsub
11-08-05, 09:08 PM
ditto the above to the max :yep: :yep:
It's desturbing, I do a minor stretch to the main obj (hull) and textures go out but re-import the orig and fine, and the texture problem doesn't happen with the smaller item (that i can gather at the moment).
So i'll get the cranes etc in and see if the texture problems been fixed by updated Pack3D.
iambecomelife: Could you do the export with the new and import with the old??
An idea anyhow
iambecomelife
11-08-05, 11:01 PM
Some good news, finally. I edited a C-2 just now and imported it. Sure enough, the deck was all over the hull. In a very bad mood, I decided to try editing the hull one surface at a time. I assigned the cfg#_NKLS texture to a single randomly selected panel of hull-which was at the time displaying NKLSD.tga - and imported it. To my amazement, Pack3d/Wings3d did not mess up the other textures; the importation went FINE. I went into museum and the hull was where it was supposed to be; even the deck skin was in place. The only problem was the one small panel of hull with the deck on it. What I'll do is try "sacrificing" a panel that is inside the hull, invisible to the viewer. That way the entire hull will look OK. We should tell Sansal about this and see if he can make an official fix in the next pack3d. BTW, this occurred while using an old version of his program, but I suspect that my interim fix might work on the latest one.
iambecomelife
11-08-05, 11:37 PM
I'm using Sansal's latest creation with 3D Max7 and I have no issues.
Have you done any multiple skin vessels? I also had less trouble with warships, which were largely one-skin.
iambecomelife
11-09-05, 12:24 AM
Ok just so we are on the same playing field, are you refering to the actual TGA files required to skin "a" ship or, are you refering to a ship that has multiple TGA's to make several "versions" of said same ship ?
Because I have had issues for both types, but fixed it.
That would be a ship with multiple skins. I've noticed that they don't really have tga files for the hull in the dat - just a designated zone where the external tga's in data\sea are applied. How'd you resolve your issues with this type of ship? My current workaround might not be enough to solve all the skinning problems permanently, so I'd definitely like to hear of any other methods.
snowsub
11-09-05, 03:01 AM
Grrr, I'm thinking it must be my version of Wings3D, cause I just tried importing obj of the stock hull and exporting with no changes and the textures are up the duff, so i'll try to get another version of wings and see how it goes
sergbuto
11-09-05, 05:18 AM
When it comes to completely new ships, no one is saying much about anything. :-?
That is maybe because people are busy doing those. There are plenty original models available. However some of them have difficulties to be imported because it requires significant changes in ZON files. No help from Devs on that.
For example, the list of ships for British Navy which can be processed without significant problems with ZON files and are currently in works
HMS Ark Royal
HMS Furious
HMS Hood
Cloucester-class cruiser
Leander-class cruiser
C-type (1944) DD
V-type DD
Good to hear :up:. Those particular ships will prove useful to the campaign in in historical scenarios, particularly the Leander class, the Hood and the Ark Royal.
But if the Furious could be made, then couldn't the Courageous class be made too? They are very similar in design.
chris911
11-09-05, 08:54 AM
But if the Furious could be made, then couldn't the Courageous class be made too? They are very similar in design.
Infact they are of the same origin but the Modifications made on them in later years of the war are different.
The Courageaous and Glorious weren't upgraded later in the war, I'm not sure why... :cool:
I didn't mean they could be represented by the same unit, but a Furious model could be changed in Wings3d in a Courageous model - of course the stats would be different, and for the Furious, they should differ for later years. The island would need to be removed in later years, but I'm not sure if it's possible for a unit to have a different model for different years, unless you made a separate unit for those years (such as "Furious, 1944 upgrade").
I don't see how that would affect adapting a Furious model to a Courageous one however. :-?
sergbuto
11-09-05, 12:45 PM
But if the Furious could be made, then couldn't the Courageous class be made too?
I guess it might be possible.
BTW Which US cruisers were employed in the Med?
The Philadelphia (Brooklyn Class) was. The carriers Ranger and Wasp were too, for some time.
Also, the Omaha and Wichita served in the Atlantic, and the Augusta was used to transport President Roosevelt to the Atlantic Charter meeting off Newfoundland.
I'm not sure of the others.
chris911
11-09-05, 02:33 PM
You re right the modifications on all the 3 carriers of the class took place in the mid 30th. only furious was a flush deck carrier at the beginning of WWII the others had isles.Couragous and Glorious where not in shape to be upgraded later in war ....situated on the ocean floor.
sergbuto
11-09-05, 03:23 PM
The Philadelphia (Brooklyn Class) was. The carriers Ranger and Wasp were too, for some time.
Also, the Omaha and Wichita served in the Atlantic, and the Augusta was used to transport President Roosevelt to the Atlantic Charter meeting off Newfoundland.
I'm not sure of the others.
I read info about five US cruisers supporting the Allied invasion of Sicily but could not find names of cruisers. I guess those were out of seven cruisers which took part in the Torch operation in the Northen Africa: New Orleans, Wichita, Northampton, Cleveland and Brooklyn class cruisers.
chris911
11-09-05, 04:13 PM
Wichita was also detached to the brit. Homefleet for some time , thats also the fate of the US BB Washington and HCr. Tuscaloosa and some destroyers of the US . Those ships mainly served under brit. command during the years 42 and 43 as some kind of help for the british Admirality which had suffered heavy Losses in 1940 to 42 . (they nearly lost half of their fleet of large units by then : Hood, Repulse , Courageous, PoW, Ark Royal, Royal Oak, Barham and Glorious .)
The Courageaous and Glorious weren't upgraded later in the war, I'm not sure why... :cool:
Couragous and Glorious where not in shape to be upgraded later in war ....situated on the ocean floor.
BTW - Just to be clear, I knew the Courageous and Glorious were sunk, I was just trying to make a joke. :lol:
iambecomelife
11-09-05, 06:28 PM
The Courageaous and Glorious weren't upgraded later in the war, I'm not sure why... :cool:
Couragous and Glorious where not in shape to be upgraded later in war ....situated on the ocean floor.
BTW - Just to be clear, I knew the Courageous and Glorious were sunk, I was just trying to make a joke. :lol:
I was reading about this in one of my references the other day. I can understand why the Glorious did not survive her encounter with the German battlecruisers, but it's strange that the class didn't get adequate underwater protection during their interwar refits. If Courageous had had torpedo bulges equal to, say, the Ark Royal's she would have survived (in theory), or at least sunk slowly enough for many more men to be rescued.
According to some accounts I have read, the Japanese carrier Shinano could have been beached and saved. She was torpedoed by the USS Archerfish on the night of 28-29 November, 1944. Her captain, Captain Abe, was too overconfident though, and continued on course instead of heading for the nearest beach. She sank hours later, taking 500 men down with her.
Ironically, right now I am listening to the CD "Day for Night" by the Tragically Hip, specifically to the song "Nautical Disaster." :hmm:
sergbuto
11-10-05, 05:17 PM
One more question.
Where did Furious have her funnel during WW2? Where should the origin of the stack smoke be in the Furious model? I could not find any pics or drawings which would provide the answer.
iambecomelife
11-10-05, 06:09 PM
One more question.
Where did Furious have her funnel during WW2? Where should the origin of the stack smoke be in the Furious model? I could not find any pics or drawings which would provide the answer.
After her reconstruction, "Furious" had no smokestack; instead, the exhaust was vented aft below the flight deck through slats on the port and starboard of her lower hangar. Think "Akagi" or "Kaga", but without a lateral curving funnel. Smoke should probably be positioned to vent directly from the sides of the hull itself, instead of from a structure. I'm not sure if this is possible.
iambecomelife
11-11-05, 06:08 PM
Just wanted to mention that Pack3d and Wings3d have been behaving themselves for the past couple of days. This weekend I'll revive some of the ships that were stalled by the texturing issues.
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 11:05 AM
Some more WIP shots of another NKGN -based vessel (thanks again, Sergbuto). I still have some 3d errors to correct with it.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3741/addm16vb.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1580/addm37mz.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2879/addm23ia.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2360/addm41am.jpg
I'm trying to add some vessels representative of the period between WWI's outbreak and the Great Depression. Hence the old-fashioned features in this model - a split superstructure, tall funnel, and blunt bow. Generally I've found that U-Boat victims fell into three categories:
1. Outdated ships built from 1914-1929. The Depression seems to have halted most new construction. Perhaps 1/2-2/3 of all vessels in a typical early war convoy.
2. Vessels built in the mid-to-late 1930's as war seemed more likely. This grouping seems to include a disproportionate amount of tankers.
3. Wartime standardized production: Liberty Ships, Victories, C-2's, etc. They eventually dominated the late war and postwar merchant fleets.
IIRC at the outbreak of the war the US merchant marine, for instance, included a large number of WWI leftovers, a handful of modern tankers, and very few modern dry cargo vessels like the C-2 and C-3 we see so often ingame. In fact there are only three SH3 merchant vessels that seem to be somewhat old-fashioned (Coastal Merchant and Sergbuto's 2 ships).
EDIT: BTW, does anyone know how to stop the flag from appearing upside-down? This seems to have started happening with the latest Pack3d version.
iambecomelife,
I remember that I read in somewhere here in the forum a post from you where you said something about new 3D ship wrecks to be placed in shalow waters like harbours to scenario's purposes. Any news on this matter? :hmm:
Rubini.
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 11:55 AM
ATM no progress on the derelicts, although I have some improved rust textures that could be used for the ship's skin. To place the wrecks in harbors I need a way to have a ship rest on the bottom without incurring any damage. Maybe I could use one of the iceberg models as a base for this. Do you know whether or not they can be damaged?
I think that is easily possible to work with the damage problem. The dolphins are a example. If you define a unit as an environmental unit (like icebergs) it will "loss" a lot of their ordinary properties. :hmm:
Rubini.
Der Teddy Bar
11-12-05, 01:40 PM
iambecomelife,
I love the vintage feel to your new vessels.
Will be great to see them in game.
:o :up:
Great ships! Wish I could get my other ones working. How did you make that bridge? Mine are still crashing the game.
Also, what is the tonnage?
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 02:33 PM
:o :up:
Great ships! Wish I could get my other ones working. How did you make that bridge? Mine are still crashing the game.
Also, what is the tonnage?
I made the bridge by scaling various parts of the original front deckhouse. I had to do this because the transport's bridge was causing java errors in Pack3d, even when I made sure to give it the NKGN's textures. Since the "bridge" is actually an integral part of the hull model it didn't cause any import/export problems. It was probably the hardest part, since I wanted to create a ship that didn't look like the default NKGN.
In short, working with existing hull materials is safe. Importing a whole new bridge is riskier. This problem has caused quite a few of my past merchants to fail - I could not import a new bridge, and this the unit was left looking too similar to its parent.
I want the ship to have a medium tonnage. I might be able to get away with it because of the spare superstructure, which would perhaps lower the tonnage for a ship of that size. Perhaps 5500 GRT?
I made sure to give it the NKGN's textures.
Are you able to retexture parts yet? I imported a new funnel for the Coastal Tanker (AOD type Small Tanker) I am making, but the new funnel seems to have deck textures.
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 03:44 PM
Congrats, you just got rid of the fine young lad with the stylish hat!
This is not guaranteed to work, but select the entire funnel and right click. Under "Materials", use CFG#_TXR[unitname]. If the "cosh" file doesn't have this fexture, create a new material and give it that name. Refer to the hull obj for the exact name of the texture (for instance, Sergbuto's cargo would be CFG#TXR_NKGN).
When I right click on the funnel, or hull )or the NKGN hull) I get two or three materials. For the Tugboat/Coastal Tanker, I get "hole", "default1", and default2". The option "hole" is selected. The texture name of the tugboat under the 3d extract folder is 3_NATF.tga. The NKGN doesn't have an equivalent texture, maybe because it is multi-skin unit.
Does any of this have any effect on what you just told me? I have used CFG#_TXR_NATF as the material, and didn't change any properties. I will now test it...
It didn't have any effect on the funnel. I don't really understand this material changing option.
Anyway, here's the work in progress. I'm thinking of moving the lifeboats.
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/518/coastaltanker019ei.jpg
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 05:03 PM
Wow, I can't wait to blow that thing sky high! :up: My fault; I forgot that the tug is a ship with a single skin, so it wouldn't use the cfg# material designation for the hull. Try using "default1" as the texture instead. I believe that "default2" is automatically deleted when you exit wings3d. Apparently you picked up the cargo ship's default material when you imported the funnel from it.
thasaint
11-12-05, 06:50 PM
can't wait for new freighters and tankers to sink :rock:
nice ships
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the compliments.
BTW, AG124, I think that your tanker really captures the look of those little tankers from AOD, right down to the pair of lifeboats. That screenshot makes me feel so much nostalgia... :up: It was so annoying in AOD when you got a merchant contact and it was only one of those puny little things with the grey flag - lol. For SH3, though, we need to skew tonnage downwards, so this is an excellent addition to the existing ships.
Is this a real design, or was it a fictional ship for the game? They were in SH1 too.
(The game crashes when I try to actually designate it as a tanker - 101 instead of 104).
iambecomelife
11-12-05, 08:35 PM
I think that there were a few tankers that looked like that. However, I haven't seen any photos with that particular design. Most of the tanker pics on Uboat.net seem to show vessels of 6000-10000 tons; small tankers are rare. The Royal Navy had a class of smaller tankers that would have been of the same general tonnage, but the superstructure was aft, like modern ships'.
You may be having crashes because the unit #-type is inconsistent in your files. Did you check the cfg file in data\sea, as well as data\roster\[nation]\[unit].cfg? They both need to be 101.
Kpt. Lehmann
11-12-05, 08:41 PM
Thanks for the compliments.
BTW, AG124, I think that your tanker really captures the look of those little tankers from AOD, right down to the pair of lifeboats. That screenshot makes me feel so much nostalgia... :up: It was so annoying in AOD when you got a merchant contact and it was only one of those puny little things with the grey flag - lol. For SH3, though, we need to skew tonnage downwards, so this is an excellent addition to the existing ships.
Yes yes!!! More merchants needed!!! Keep up the good work guys. :up: :up: :up:
iambecomelife
11-15-05, 06:34 PM
Another WIP posting. Some shots of an additional generic, medium-sized cargo ship. Not a copy of any particular class, but influenced by late WWI - 1920's ships. Compare the profile to that of the older merchant I posted a few day ago.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2299/hiangle5lh.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/439/sternshot3zb.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3263/profile0ok.jpg
Torpedo impact. I'm altering the front and back half objects to make sinkings a bit more dramatic. Metal now deforms at the point of impact, and deckhouses buckle from explosions. This is not without its problems, since it is sometimes possible to see through the hull object.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6444/twist19sz.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/451/twist26hb.jpg
I might alter the bridge so that the model looks less like the NKGN.
iambecomelife
11-15-05, 06:39 PM
Improvements to the still-unfinished ore carrier design. I straightened the bow and gave it a more realistic wheelhouse. Hopefully she doesn't look too much like her "mother" anymore. :hmm:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6648/coalman22my.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1087/coalman19sj.jpg
iambecomelife
11-15-05, 06:40 PM
Also, has anyone found out how to prevent the upside-down flag? I hope the upcoming version of Pack3d can solve this.
:o
I don't know what to say, except maybe that these are probably the best merchants ever made for this game, even better looking than most of the stock merchants. :up:
I wish I had more time to work on mine. :( Only three more weeks of university left. :shifty: But I keep having problems anyway - I am new to 3d model making after all. It was a good thing that I ever figured out as much as I did, with help of course. :lol:
I already asked this question in the thread about changed tonnages in RuB, but here is a better place. What is the best way to make changes to a ship's hull itself in Wings3d? I was hoping to make my Ammo Carrier flush-decked, but there are other changes which I may need to make as well - the type of straight bow that is on your bulk carrier could be useful for example. :hmm:
This may cause texture problems, but I have decided to let those two developers re-zone my models, so maybe they would fix it.
BTW - None of my flags have appeared upside down. :-? I don't have any idea what would cause it.
iambecomelife
11-15-05, 08:36 PM
:o
I don't know what to say, except maybe that these are probably the best merchants ever made for this game, even better looking than most of the stock merchants. :up:
I wish I had more time to work on mine. :( Only three more weeks of university left. :shifty: But I keep having problems anyway - I am new to 3d model making after all. It was a good thing that I ever figured out as much as I did, with help of course. :lol:
I already asked this question in the thread about changed tonnages in RuB, but here is a better place. What is the best way to make changes to a ship's hull itself in Wings3d? I was hoping to make my Ammo Carrier flush-decked, but there are other changes which I may need to make as well - the type of straight bow that is on your bulk carrier could be useful for example. :hmm:
This may cause texture problems, but I have decided to let those two developers re-zone my models, so maybe they would fix it.
BTW - None of my flags have appeared upside down. :-? I don't have any idea what would cause it.
This method helped me resize deckhouses and straighten bows: What you do is click on the dotted pyramid in wings3d (should be on the left) and you'll see the model's vertices exposed. Drag a box around the deckhouse or whatever you want to modify, right click, and use the resize function. (You may want to move the object vertically so it's out of the way of the hull and doesn't mess up adjacent faces. For instance when I work on the NKGN I usually select the superstructure with the "adjacent faces" tab (pyramid #3), move it up, resize with the adjacent vetices pyramid (pyramid #1) and lower it back to the deck when I'm done. This allows resizing of ship parts without the faces shrinking away from one another. It's also a great way to reshape the hulls; I used it to give my old-fashioned merchants straight, WWI-era bows.
Alright, I'll give it a try this Friday. I still have some freighters which need work. Thanks.
snowsub
11-15-05, 09:21 PM
a well Duh! tip aswell, in case you didn't know (I didn't til I tried).
You can hold down the ctrl button to unselect nodes/blips/surfaces etc.
So say in my case I'm widening the hull, I look from directly above and make a rectangle (with nodes option) along the side I'm stretching, this will also grab things I don't want like the nodes on the bottom of the hull, then I re-orientate to be looking at the side and hold ctrl to de-select nodes below the water line.
Also good to get nodes in those hard to reach (tm) areas, select the surface option and select your surface, then change to nodes and de-select the nodes you don't want to move.
Good modding now :arrgh!:
chris911
11-16-05, 06:36 AM
AG124 wrote
BTW - None of my flags have appeared upside down. I don't have any idea what would cause it.
Have u ever had a ship ingame where u changed the hull part itself by resizing opjects and not moving (lowering ) or coping them ? Because i think that maybe the resizing of smaller parts of the main hull is causing the texture disorientation and the up side down flag.
I have reduced some parts of some superstructures to 0%, some of which were integral parts of the hull. Nothing to the extent that Iambecomelife has done however, and probably nothing like you have done either.
chris911
11-16-05, 01:12 PM
Thats good to hear . So we come closer to a solution for the texture probs. What i found out so far is that people who have changed the main hull by only lowering parts of it or sizing them to 0% seem to have no hull-deck mix or upside down flags. so as far as i can say the probs start when u begin to enlarge parts of the main hull .all other parts seem to get their textures from other parts of the map so for exemple a new bridge as part only won t have those probs. i m working on a 3 piper cruise liner atm which is based on the transport so trouble seems to start with it when i change sth on the main hull . where as working with more than one funnel or creating another deck for the bridge doesn t do anything to the textures. the other thing is that only changing the sides of the hull doesn t create a problem either.it only seems to start when u enlarge deck parts and parts of the side walls on the same model.
I do however, get a problem with deck textures - they seem to include textures from the superstructure. :doh:
chris911
11-16-05, 05:49 PM
as long as the superstructure is part of the main hull.obj that seems to be the case with anyone who did change something there so far. but it also seems that the flag is influenced by that. maybe we should ask sergbuto for help for the texturing as he did the merchant skins and could help us with his knowledge maybe.
iambecomelife
11-16-05, 05:50 PM
Cdr Gibs PM'ed me a fix for the upside-down flags. In his words:
The Flag is not the only thing that will be upside down, Check the ship on a later date when its armed, U will find that any gun mount thats astern of amidships is now most likely also upside down.
There is now way to stop this in Pack3d, but all is not lost. The fix is a simple Hexedit
Ok, Open the ORIGINAL ship data file in your Hex editor, do a 32bit Float search for this value : 3.1415925. This will highlight several enteries. Goto the cfg.Flag entery and above it u will see a 32 bit float value as above. The very last 1 before the text cfg.flag is the 1 u are after, With left mouse button click and drag over this value, right click, copy. DONT CLOSE the dat file, now open your Modded ship and do a test string search for cfg. goto the cfg.flag. U should now have 2 dat files open in ur hex editor. Compare the 2 cfg.flag enteries, in ur modded ship u will see that the 32bit float entery : 3.1415925 in the last instance in the original ship dat file is missing from ur modded ship dat file
Thanks, cdr!
iambecomelife
11-18-05, 10:37 PM
Is this a real design, or was it a fictional ship for the game? They were in SH1 too.
(The game crashes when I try to actually designate it as a tanker - 101 instead of 104).
It looks like the file consistency isn't the only problem. I'm having the same issue with a new tanker I'm working on. Does anyone know if we have to hex-edit the DAT file to define unit type? I hope I won't need to designate the ship as a tanker, since this will mess up the random campaign layer's spawning percentages.
iambecomelife
11-18-05, 11:46 PM
Shots of the new tanker. Based on some photographs of designs dating from 1919-1925. I might remove some ventilation ducts. The bow lifeboats need some work, and there are some texturing issues with a mast. Overall, it went well. Instead of using museum I've started using modded Naval Academy missions to check my models for errors, since they tend to load up so quickly. I really don't want it listed as a freighter, so I'm going to take a look at the dat file when I get a chance.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6015/oilman10uh.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3179/oilman23zs.jpg
Some combat photography. Does anyone know a thing or two about NVIDIA cards, BTW? I'm tired of how my 6600 makes smoke graphics look squashed or oblong.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6872/inferno19lg.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7185/inferno28nw.jpg
http://www.armed-guard.com/43201.jpg
chris911
11-19-05, 05:23 AM
looks very nice . maybe add the bigger lifeboats of the NKTR. u checked the flag thing already?
chris911
11-19-05, 05:23 AM
looks very nice . maybe add the bigger lifeboats of the NKTR. u checked the flag thing already? And u should deffinatly get rid off the Vents midship. maybe add same to the Bridge 2or4. another good thing for ship would be if u considder using the T2 oil pipes section for midship section between the bridge and the engin room.
Excellent ship :up: - it's about time we got a generic tanker for the game. I really like the new damage models you are using: I think I know the option you used but I haven't experimented with it yet.
iambecomelife
11-19-05, 03:52 PM
I tried the hex-editing solution for the flag, and it works. It looks like Cdr Gibs taught these guy some respect for their national flag... :up:
iambecomelife
11-19-05, 05:20 PM
Excellent ship :up: - it's about time we got a generic tanker for the game. I really like the new damage models you are using: I think I know the option you used but I haven't experimented with it yet.
To get this effect I'm using rotate, torque, and crumple effects. Since the broken halves are obviously supposed to represent a damaged ship I figured you might as well add some deformation to it.
Did you ever manage to get your tanker classified correctly? I went through the dat files and could not find a label for unit type anywhere.
Yes, it turns out you were right. I forgot to change the designation to 101 in the .cfg in the roster folder. :oops:. After changing it, the Coastal Tanker shows up in the museum as a tanker and doesn't crash the game.
iambecomelife
11-21-05, 07:01 PM
I solved my own classification problem, too. It turns out I'd specified an incompatible deck cargo for the tanker in my testbed naval academy mission, thus making the game crash. After I changed this it worked fine as a tanker. I wasn't really going for this, but the "generic tanker" kind of reminds me of those monster tankers from "Aces of the Deep" with the single, tall funnel. I loved bagging them - 9000-13000 tons with one shot. Ah, those were the days...
Marhkimov
11-21-05, 07:10 PM
BTW? I'm tired of how my 6600 makes smoke graphics look squashed or oblong.
I don't claim to know anything about your graphics card (because I don't :lol: ) but maybe there's a workaround for this issue.
Since your smoke appears to be "stretched" length-wise, wouldn't it help if you had a "thinner" more upright smoke graphic? Just a thought.
If you want, I can mod the smoke graphics for you.
Maybe you could send me your TGA's in question? I can alter those.
I wasn't really going for this, but the "generic tanker" kind of reminds me of those monster tankers from "Aces of the Deep" with the single, tall funnel. I loved bagging them - 9000-13000 tons with one shot. Ah, those were the days...
Yes, I never noticed that but you're right. All you would need are the two ventilation ducts in front of the funnel and a wider bridge. Maybe an idea for me when I finish the Lord Strathcona and the Kyle... :hmm: Or maybe not.
I was planning on making something in the 3500-5000 ton range, but I can't think of a suitable parent ship. I suppose I could scale down a bigger model.
chris911
11-21-05, 08:23 PM
I was planning on making something in the 3500-5000 ton range, but I can't think of a suitable parent ship. I suppose I could scale down a bigger model. maybe the small tanker? Its a nice model in this size range.
I would actually rather do a freighter, and the tanker hull isn't any good for that.
I did start to make a new tanker from the small tanker, but it really sucked. I may try again, but with tankers I think it is best to stick to the 5500-8000 ton range. It is smaller freighters that the game really needs.
I was originally going to use the Small Merchant hull for some units, but everything I make from that ship crashes the game in some way or another. :damn: I do have one 2,300 ton freighter almost done, but have never posted any screenshots. I am hoping that if I send it to the developers, they will be able to make it work properly.
iambecomelife,
Outstanding work! This is just what we need. :up: :D :up:
And if you'd also make versions of these ships that are slightly smaller or bigger, but still looks quite much like eachother it will become even harder to make sure you id a target right, hence we will get some added realism in that department too. :)
iambecomelife
11-22-05, 06:07 PM
BTW? I'm tired of how my 6600 makes smoke graphics look squashed or oblong.
I don't claim to know anything about your graphics card (because I don't :lol: ) but maybe there's a workaround for this issue.
Since your smoke appears to be "stretched" length-wise, wouldn't it help if you had a "thinner" more upright smoke graphic? Just a thought.
If you want, I can mod the smoke graphics for you.
Maybe you could send me your TGA's in question? I can alter those.
I might try that this weekend; I'll let you know if I still have trouble. The thing is that it works fine until I'm at maybe 4x anti-aliasing or more - then I get the annoying "stretch" effect. The 6600 is a good card otherwise, but I think I'm buying a Raedon next time...
iambecomelife
11-22-05, 09:19 PM
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/574/cargline16bc.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4778/cargline27ze.jpg
Another new ship for the upcoming mod. I was sort of in "Aces of the Deep Nostalgia Mode", so it's reminiscent of the "heavy freighter" model. Probably the most modern ship I've created with Pack3d - a "four goalpost" motor merchant, maybe with some passenger accomodation in the forward deckhouse. It would date from the 1930's to the early war years before standardized ships predominated. The tonnage will be fairly high. A valuable merchant target - second only to maybe passenger ships and large tankers. It uses a composite deckhouse, instead of the split superstructure common on older ships. For some reason, the Japanese and Americans seemed to like this arrangement, while the British produced lots of split deckhouse merchants well into the war.
This thing almost seems to be jinxed. I almost scuppered the project because of a mysterious CTD-bug caused whenever it broke up (now resolved). Also, when I was testing the damage model (as well as my own reduced-damage deck gun mod) I went downstairs for dinner, leaving the spacebar pressed down with a book to wreak some deck-gun havoc while I was away. I finished my meal and came back up just in time to see the merchant explode, cut down my entire watch crew, and sink the U-Boat in a matter of seconds with no survivors.
Possible modifications: a smaller funnel (maybe a modded Victory Ship's since this allows for funnel logos), more air vents, an extra set of derricks against the superstructure forward, fewer lifeboats, and moving the #2 set of kingposts/derricks out of the deckhouse. It definitely will have the flag right-side up in good time, and is also multi-skin capable. The wartime grey is a bit dull, but for now I'm trying to add as many ships as possible with as wide a variety of structural features. Any thoughts?
Happy Times
11-23-05, 03:33 AM
Any thoughts? Wow! :D
UBOAT234
11-23-05, 05:48 AM
Good :sunny:
chris911
11-23-05, 06:10 AM
nice one. maybe if u want to get rid of the boats i would move them together so that u have 3 very close together on every side of the superstruktur.
chris911
11-23-05, 06:10 AM
nice one. maybe if u want to get rid of the boats i would move them together so that u have 3 very close together on every side of the superstruktur.
Great work! :D :up: The funnel definetely needs to be a bit smaller, but other than that it is flawless.
I have always noticed that Japanese and US ships had more solidly built superstructures than other ships (ex. British, Norwegan, Greek). We do need a few of these in the game - it looks just like some US troopships I have seen (they didn't all have the large superstructures of passenger liners.
coronas
11-23-05, 02:51 PM
Take a look. Great page.
http://www.bluestarline.org/california1.html
Yes you're right about the Blue Star Line - They had unusually big funnels. It's ironic, but last week, I was reading a book on German Merchant raiders titled Hitler's Secret Pirate Fleet, and at one point it mentioned that the Blue Star Line ships could be easily recognized because of their large funnels. This is the first time I have seen a picture, however. Maybe that funnel will work after all. :hmm:
chris911
11-23-05, 08:46 PM
i also think the funnel looks good as it is , and it has a large surface to add paintjobs of different companies
iambecomelife
11-24-05, 12:12 AM
i also think the funnel looks good as it is , and it has a large surface to add paintjobs of different companies
Yes, but the texture mapping for this funnel is very poor. Logos are impossible because they repeat, so this type could only feature companies that had solid colors or bands on their funnels. The Victory Ship and Small Tanker have much better funnels for adding letters and images; plus, it's easy to stretch or narrow the funnel to adapt it to a new vessel. I think the final version will most likely have the victory funnel... :hmm:
iambecomelife
11-24-05, 12:15 AM
Does anyone know how to alter the position of the bow wave? I've successfully resized the NKGN and moved most of the necessary parts to make a smaller merchant, but the wave is positioned several feet ahead of the ship. I changed the xyz coordinates with the latest pack3d version but this didn't help.
Also, how do you add nodes for deck cargo?
chris911
11-25-05, 08:17 AM
AG124 wrote:
I was planning on making something in the 3500-5000 ton range, but I can't think of a suitable parent ship. I suppose I could scale down a bigger model.
This one would be a great addition for the game as it was very common mass produced . u could take the C2
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/types.html?class=Hog+Island
iambecomelife,
If you take the last type you showed of there and move the superstructure back so the aft en of it is at the mast with the flag you'd get somthing similar to this motor merchant:
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/2160.html
I just have to repeat myself in the praise. This is outstanding work you do. :up:
That looks like the SH 1 "Standard Merchant". I considered making one from the Troop Transport's hull, but decided there weren't enough merchants with stern-positionned superstructures.
Hi guys, first post here, so let me first say great job all in making sh3 the best subsim, you guys even inspired me to do some work myself.
Im trying to make a normal mechant out of the troop transport, with Sansal's excellent tool
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/7595/sh3img2611200515756152nn.jpg
Everyting seems to be going in the right direction except the textures.
Can one of you guys please tell me how to put those textures on the right way, cause i dont know anymore
thanks Noline
The textures have probably been the biggest proble for the rest of us as well - or maybe re-zoning...
It looks as though you have only posted a link to your thumbnail. Could you change the link so that we can see the whole picture? Or maybe it's just my computer again... :(
OK - Now I can see the whole thing - I like it so far, but more changes the superstructure might be good. Worst texture issues than I have ever had though. :o
yes but your skins seem to fit verry wel AG124
maybe you can explain how you import into pack3d without messing up the textures
Actually I've discussed it before with Iambecomlife - it doesn't appear that I am doing anything very different.
1. I clone the ship in pack3d, close pack3d, open it again and then export the 3d objects. It doesn't work right unless I do it in these two steps.
2. I use wings3d (build 0.98.32a) to make the 3d changes I require. I should also note I do not change the names of 3d parts to the new ship name - for example, I didn't rename the extracted 3d parts of the Liberty Ship from LL to RC like I did with the regular files when I made the Rose Castle.
3. I re-import the changed objects.
That's it. The only other thing I can say is that it appears I may be using an older version of pack3d, but I'm not sure. If Iambecomelife was here, maybe he could help more.
I am having some problems though. It's hard to see from the screenshots of my ships, but some textures are messed up. The biggest problem is that funnel and superstructure textures appear where they shouldn't be appearing. The hulls are allright though.
chris911
11-26-05, 06:24 PM
sometimes these texture issues u have go away if u use the vertics option of wings 3d insteed of faces options . When u strech things never use the faces option or ur textures will mess up all the time just use the vertics and it shouldn t happen.
nah didnt work,the moment i import anything the textures are messed up
any chance you sending me that older version of pack3d ?
cheers Noline
iambecomelife
11-27-05, 01:40 PM
iambecomelife,
If you take the last type you showed of there and move the superstructure back so the aft en of it is at the mast with the flag you'd get somthing similar to this motor merchant:
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/2160.html
I just have to repeat myself in the praise. This is outstanding work you do. :up:
Thanks :D . That's an interesting pic you linked to. Interesting, how so many companies during the 1950's and 1960's switched to having their freighters and tankers' deckhouses aft, like that ship's. However, this goes to show there would have been a few WWII-era ships with aft superstructure arrangements.
The problem is that for an aft deckhouse ship I'd need to move the smoke back, and I still can't find the smoke node or whatever it is that controls it. I also still can't find the bow wave node, which is really annoying. :damn: I've got that resized NKGN model almost complete, so I really want to find this. :damn: .
Chris911, that's an interesting thing about the textures and face/vertex mode; I'll have to see if it works.
To Noline & anyone else having texturing trouble, try this method: select a single hull panel, texture it with the deck texture using Wings3d's "materials" function, and then import it. Pack3d sometimes textures the hull correctly (except for that one panel) when you do this. If this doesn't work you may just need to work with the NKGN model, which seems to be a lot more reliable texture-wise than most ships.
Another question I have completely forgotton - How do we make new images for the ship recognition manual? I don't even know what file the existing ones have to be extracted from, or how to do it. I could probably edit them once I got them though.
Any help on this one?
chris911
11-27-05, 10:50 PM
To Noline & anyone else having texturing trouble, try this method: select a single hull panel, texture it with the deck texture using Wings3d's "materials" function, and then import it. Pack3d sometimes textures the hull correctly (except for that one panel) when you do this. If this doesn't work you may just need to work with the NKGN model, which seems to be a lot more reliable texture-wise than most ships.
But befor u do that u have to save the parts seperatly cause pack 3d sometimes doesn t work with the changed texture and then all ur work is lost.
Another question I have completely forgotton - How do we make new images for the ship recognition manual? I don't even know what file the existing ones have to be extracted from, or how to do it. I could probably edit them once I got them though.
Any help on this one?
theyre also in the shipfolder, a tga file, ill have to check the name when i get home
OK, I think I know what you're talking about - I've seen the files but never checked to see what they were. The name would be (for the tugboat for example) NATF_sil.tga.
iambecomelife
11-28-05, 06:30 PM
I've got some bad news. It looks like the game cannot use multiple skins with cloned ships. I started a mission with several of the new ships I created, and the game assigned the same skin to all of them (t01.tga). There were five or so different skins available, and four of them went unused by the game. :damn: These were all NKGN-based vessels, which should have worked based on their "ancestry". This is a severe blow to my modding, since unless I figure out a way around this all of the new ships will look identical. :nope: Does anyone know what might be happening here? What parts of the DAT file control skin assignments? Are there certain sections of the dat file I need to hex-edit so that I can use multiple skins? Wow... I can't tell you how frustrating this is... :damn: :damn: :damn:
Marhkimov
11-28-05, 06:33 PM
I've got some bad news. It looks like the game cannot use multiple skins with cloned ships. I started a mission with several of the new ships I created, and the game assigned the same skin to all of them (t01.tga). There were five or so different skins available, and four of them went unused by the game. :damn: These were all NKGN-based vessels, which should have worked based on their "ancestry". This is a severe blow to my modding, since unless I figure out a way around this all of the new ships will look identical. :nope: Does anyone know what might be happening here? What parts of the DAT file control skin assignments? Are there certain sections of the dat file I need to hex-edit so that I can use multiple skins? Wow... I can't tell you how frustrating this is... :damn: :damn: :damn:
Ask Sergbuto. I'm sure for him it would be an easy fix.
And one question. How do you know for sure that the game is not using all of them?
FYI - single missions (or Scr campaign layer) do not support random selections of skins. For instance, if you run the same single mission over and over again, you will always see the same skin. Same goes for scripted ships in the campaign layer. Ships always wear the same skin, whether it be t01, t03, t05, or whatever.
The only times the skins are randomly assigned are when you run across ship in the campaign random layer.
At least I am pretty sure of this... Can anyone confirm?
Iambecomelife, maybe you should test your ship in campaign random layer?
iambecomelife
11-28-05, 07:11 PM
The thing is that with the Merchant Variety Pack I would see all the coastal merchants in, say, the Convoy Attack naval academy mission with different company skins. Granted, they'd always remain the same, but at least the game was using different textures. With cloned ships, ALL vessels use [unitname]_T01.tga. I haven't tried these ships in the campaign layer but I really doubt that it will matter.
I think I found some pertinent entries in the ships' dat files (cfg#txr_[unitname]). This is the designation for the ships' hull skin, as seen in Wings3d. However, I have no idea where to go from here.
This problem means that each individual paint scheme will require a different ship model - a massive waste of HD space - unless I manage to get around it. If I can't I'll just have to release all the new ships in wartime grey :nope: .
Marhkimov
11-28-05, 07:14 PM
Well, considering that Sergbuto knows how to convert single skin ships to multi-skin ships, he might have a clue as to what needs to be fixed...
Lets HOPE he does... ;)
chris911
11-28-05, 07:20 PM
U could construct a mission with 5 of each of ur 5 units and test them as a random convoi . its not very hard to implent them in the *.rdm layer . maybe put it infront of a ger base 60 miles away and let it run a loop without deletimg on last WP. so it should be easy to find. that way u could test it at about 3-4 runs per 30 minutes .should fasten ur work really up.
Marhkimov
11-28-05, 07:40 PM
I see what Iambecomelife is saying. It probably won't work for campaign random layer either.
But still... Knowing SH3, you never know anything...
iambecomelife
11-29-05, 06:09 PM
I see what Iambecomelife is saying. It probably won't work for campaign random layer either.
But still... Knowing SH3, you never know anything...
Well, I tried a custom convoy attack mission last night, and sure enough the new ships were using all available skins. I guess I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Forget about my whining from yesterday :-? . Multiple-skin Pack3d ships are indeed possible, so it looks like the modding will go on. I've noticed quirks with skinning if I work on my mods while the game is minimized, so that must have been the reason for the problem.
chris911
11-29-05, 08:10 PM
So thats really good to hear. BtW i hope i get my PC back tomorrow so i go on modding the NPTR and hopefully will finish the Warspite this week.
Marhkimov
11-29-05, 08:28 PM
Just a suggestion, but if you want to make new ship models, we are desperately in need of some italian ones. There are plenty that are missing in SH3.
BTW,
Here is a detailed site with over 9,200 ships from all of the major navies that participated in WWII. There are also a few pics and schematics for each type and sub-type. Modders might find all of the information to be useful.
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
Cheers!
Marhkimov.
iambecomelife
11-29-05, 08:52 PM
Just a suggestion, but if you want to make new ship models, we are desperately in need of some italian ones. There are plenty that are missing in SH3.
BTW,
Here is a detailed site with over 9,200 ships from all of the major navies that participated in WWII. There are also a few pics and schematics for each type and sub-type. Modders might find all of the information to be useful.
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
Cheers!
Marhkimov.
I hope someone with warship-modelling experience manages to do an Italian cruiser, or that one modern Italian battleship class that included the"Roma" (can't remember the class designation). Nice looking ships, all of them.
For my current project I was wondering if anyone had access to good photographs of WWII - era merchants, other than the ones on Uboat.net? Profile drawings/blueprints would be even better - preferably ships of 5,000 GRT or less. The NKGN can be scaled down to a small cargo ship without any crazy texture side effects, so a solution to the tonnage inflation problem is definitely within reach.
I can't wait until we finish the new merchant mods. When we're on patrol we'll encounter lots of smaller ships and consider ourselves lucky to sink anything greater than 7000 tons, at least until the Liberties become common after 1942. This will make encounters with large merchants seem that much more exciting, whereas right now sinking a T-3 or C-3 is commonplace.
snowsub
11-29-05, 09:05 PM
Just a suggestion, but if you want to make new ship models, we are desperately in need of some italian ones. There are plenty that are missing in SH3.
BTW,
Here is a detailed site with over 9,200 ships from all of the major navies that participated in WWII. There are also a few pics and schematics for each type and sub-type. Modders might find all of the information to be useful.
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
Cheers!
Marhkimov.
I hope someone with warship-modelling experience manages to do an Italian cruiser, or that one modern Italian battleship class that included the"Roma" (can't remember the class designation). Nice looking ships, all of them.
For my current project I was wondering if anyone had access to good photographs of WWII - era merchants, other than the ones on Uboat.net? Profile drawings/blueprints would be even better - preferably ships of 5,000 GRT or less. The NKGN can be scaled down to a small cargo ship without any crazy texture side effects, so a solution to the tonnage inflation problem is definitely within reach.
For pictures of some US merchants: http://www.armed-guard.com
and they're list of ships sunk http://www.armed-guard.com/sunk.html
about 1/2 of them have pictures of the ships
Hope this helps
Marhkimov
11-29-05, 09:22 PM
I have a question.
Instead of using the same NKGN hull over and over, is it possible to "warp" or "deform" it into a different shape? Possibly make it into the shape of another hull?
That way, not all cloned ships would have to look like they are relatives of the soon-to-be infamous NKGN. Since I'm not a modeller, I don't know much more than that, so yeah... What do you think?
iambecomelife
11-29-05, 09:41 PM
I have a question.
Instead of using the same NKGN hull over and over, is it possible to "warp" or "deform" it into a different shape? Possibly make it into the shape of another hull?
That way, not all cloned ships would have to look like they are relatives of the soon-to-be infamous NKGN. Since I'm not a modeller, I don't know much more than that, so yeah... What do you think?
You can widen, shorten, and/or add height to the hull easily. You can even make it slightly "swaybacked" like some ship designs (ex: USS Salt Lake City). I've tried to alter the model's stern, with limited success. Altering the forecastle is also difficult ATM.
iambecomelife
11-29-05, 09:43 PM
Just a suggestion, but if you want to make new ship models, we are desperately in need of some italian ones. There are plenty that are missing in SH3.
BTW,
Here is a detailed site with over 9,200 ships from all of the major navies that participated in WWII. There are also a few pics and schematics for each type and sub-type. Modders might find all of the information to be useful.
http://warships.web4u.cz/staty.php?language=E
Cheers!
Marhkimov.
I hope someone with warship-modelling experience manages to do an Italian cruiser, or that one modern Italian battleship class that included the"Roma" (can't remember the class designation). Nice looking ships, all of them.
For my current project I was wondering if anyone had access to good photographs of WWII - era merchants, other than the ones on Uboat.net? Profile drawings/blueprints would be even better - preferably ships of 5,000 GRT or less. The NKGN can be scaled down to a small cargo ship without any crazy texture side effects, so a solution to the tonnage inflation problem is definitely within reach.
For pictures of some US merchants: http://www.armed-guard.com
and they're list of ships sunk http://www.armed-guard.com/sunk.html
about 1/2 of them have pictures of the ships
Hope this helps
Thanks. I'd been there but had lost the link to the main page with the photos.
snowsub
11-29-05, 09:51 PM
Problems come with the hull, most of the models in SH3 don't have the raised bow and stern areas on the hull, unlike most ships I've seen, and when you increase an area of the hull it stretches the texture, same if you reduce a given area squashing the texture.
Make a surface twice as wide and the texture will be stretched twice as wide, doors will be double and port-holes will be oval :nope: :nope: .
It's damn irritating.
It's what's bugging me about my Refigerated Cargo, I'm trying to make it less like a cruiser and more as they were but I'm getting texture problems plus it never looks like the photo's of the real thing, even though I'm using the model with the closest stats to the actual ships (using aux cruiser), it just looks too damn long and narrow :damn:
Very tempted to use the c2 model but it's 20m to short plus I'd have to make the raised bow stern feature
____`````` _______________ ```` _____
\...... ----------..............................--------........ /
...\ .................................................. ............../
:dead:
chris911
11-29-05, 09:55 PM
Problem with italian ships is that we don t even have a modell that comes close to the cruisers or battleships. other problem is that even if the main hull for one ship could be done we ont have any italian equipment or artillary pices bigger that what we have on the soldati. Atm what all the modders here do is just scaling and repositioning of parts of the hull.And i haven t heard anything of the Vosper till now which would be some promissing approch to get a new modell in the game. So i think italian ships are with this technics out of reach. But i remeber that there was an italian group who had a list with ships done,only thing is i never sow a screen of any of their ships....
Problem here is that a lot of people want to do sth but when they see the problems to create sth as complicated as a new ship they often give up.But i also hope that we see a lot of new modells in the futur . For me i will continue to to do brit ships cause i think thats what most of the action in WW2 was about for ger sub commanders: Sinking brit. and american ships in convoys from or to Great Britain.
Marhkimov
11-30-05, 12:42 AM
Right. US and Brit ships are good too. :up:
Down with the Tommy's and Yank's! :down:
You can widen, shorten, and/or add height to the hull easily. You can even make it slightly "swaybacked" like some ship designs (ex: USS Salt Lake City). I've tried to alter the model's stern, with limited success. Altering the forecastle is also difficult ATM.
I widened the hull of the Heavy Merchant and lengthened the hull of the still-incomplete Lord Strathcona without problem. :up: Straightening bows always works without problems as well.
Forecastle's are proving more difficult for me too - every one I have tried distorts the textures on the bow. I haven't tried anything with any sterns.
Problem with italian ships is that we don t even have a modell that comes close to the cruisers or battleships. other problem is that even if the main hull for one ship could be done we ont have any italian equipment or artillary pices bigger that what we have on the soldati.
Definately. Same problem with Japanese ships, although we would only need those for a Pacific Aces mod.
But i remeber that there was an italian group who had a list with ships done,only thing is i never sow a screen of any of their ships....
They posted screenshots of some of their Italian submarines on a different forum - I can give you a link if you like. No surface ships though.
blumen-bts
11-30-05, 11:33 AM
They posted screenshots of some of their Italian submarines on a different forum - I can give you a link if you like. No surface ships though.
Not only submarine :roll: ...the "spèrem" group (www.maricosom.net) ,continue to create 3D models for the games SH2/DC and Dangerous Waters and for the future (we wish) SH3.
At the moment we have models of all italian battleship (Vittorio veneto, Doria, Cavour) ,Zara and Bolzano class heavy cruiser , carrier Aquila and Miraglia and many other minor units... see links below:
http://canarb.altervista.org/mod/regimarina.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/canarb/games/sh2/sh2.htm
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44933
I knew that you had surface ships (I quoted the list you provided earlier, but I don't know where it is know - the Vosper thread I think) - what I meant was that I didn't know if you had posted pictures of the 3d models. Sorry if I wasn't more clear. :oops:
Great ships though - if I still played SH2 I would download every one of those in a second. Maybe I will get back into the game now that there is a random campaing available. :hmm:
Any chance of getting some of these in the game? Maybe Sergbuto can help with that - he has already imported the Vosper.
Marhkimov
11-30-05, 01:11 PM
If only we knew the whole story behind the Vosper.
I'm guessing (read that, guessing...) that something with the Vosper does not work correctly. That's why Sergbuto has not released it by now. Obviously, if it worked perfectly, don't you guys think that Sergbuto would've released it?
I dunno. Since Sergbuto has not said anything about the progress of the Vosper, all we have is clueless speculation. I'm wishing for outside models to be imported into SH3, but I'm still not sure if it is entirely possible...
manomano
11-30-05, 04:47 PM
I dont'post early, because I think premature.
But I must now reveal we are working,tks to Sansal.
Without SANSAL no possibilities for almost all.
Some times please, it's no easy job to do.
We have the models, give time to us to make a proper job.
http://forum.maricosom.net/index.php
It's a new italian Forum, please just a little for translation.
First result is here:
I have some problem with textures and with helix position,
but works.
It's only a preview.
manomano
removed because updated
iambecomelife
11-30-05, 05:33 PM
That's an excellent model & skin. Do you also mod for the IL-2 series of games? The skin is so detailed it wouldn't look out of place in "Forgotten Battles" :D .
Marhkimov
11-30-05, 05:33 PM
The important thing is that you got it to work. :up:
Marhkimov
11-30-05, 05:36 PM
Haha, wouldn't it be cool if we were able to replace our own airplane models with some higher quality ones?
Now granted, let's not lose too much fps over highly detailed airplanes, but it would be nice to at least have airplanes with a "respectable" amount of detail.
And the never-ending possibilities with ships... WOW, SH3 modding is just getting started!! :up: :up: :up:
chris911
11-30-05, 06:35 PM
Some teaser maybe at weekend she is ready .http://www.freeimagelibrary.com/images/chris911/warspite.png
Marhkimov
11-30-05, 06:40 PM
How are you planning on fixing the bridge/forecastle texturing?
chris911
11-30-05, 07:50 PM
That wont be done by me, i willjust send her to the devs to get a better texture job done.
Great work everyone! :up: We're starting to see quite a few more ships under construction now.
I sent some of my ships to the dev's too. I haven't heard anything about their progress, but I think it is a very good idea. Things like texture distortions, smoke/flag positions, and zones can't be changed by us, so letting the development team fix them get's things done more quickly.
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