'Seawolves' contains Mods by...

[Gizzmoe]

In the meantime I suggest that you, John, make this thread a sticky, because it's easier for the community to react and we'll need your feedback...

Done. Please make a new topic when you´ve finished the draft.

[Abraham]

That's the idea...
But first everybody who can has to send factual info to Shadow9216To all modders, well-wishers, etc:
If you would like to PM me factual accounts of your dealings with X1 and/or Seewolves, I will try to put them into some sort of cogent presentation, properly documented and attributed where appropriate, which I will them submit for approval. Please forward copies of e-mails. PMs, etc, include dates when available. References to X1 material appearing in the press would also be helpful.

[Officerpuppy]

I've been away from the SH3 commnity for a long long time ever since I literally had to throw out my computer to the curb. So all of this is new to me again etc.

Now my question is, are companies really allowed to market user-created mods? To my knowledge I always though it went in a certain order so to speak, company releases game, gamers mod game. Now it seems like, company relases game, gamers mod game, new company is born and mods game then market's its product back to gamers.

[Ostfriese]

According to German game magazine Gamestar (website) KOCH MEDIA will publish Seewölfe in Germany.

Price will be around €30 ($36)

[Abraham]

Ahoy Shadow9216!
Any progress, need any help?
If so, send a p.m.

Greetings,
Abraham

[Shadow9216]

Haven't had a single response from anyone. At this point, all we really have is supposition, and no real proof. Sure, we have the admissions by X1 representatives and the confimations from some of the modders, but nothing definitively proving a link between person(s) at Matrix Games and X1. Anything I include would be speculative; without direct evidence, Matrix has every reason to dismiss our allegations.

With the long weekend coming up, I may try to put together what I can and send it to you, but I feel that it will fall far short of what we had initially hoped to do.

[Abraham]

WHERE ARE ALL THOSE ANGRY MODDERS?
They applaud us for coming to their help but don't deliver the stones to build a defence!
Perhaps somebody should make a posting on the Modders forum...

[Seeadler]

According to German game magazine Gamestar (website) KOCH MEDIA will publish Seewölfe in Germany.
Price will be around €30 ($36)
24,99€ at the online shop of KOCH MEDIA.
http://www.softunity.com/ECD008173D/hShsYNZO7Oo94vXFzFTU1iZ/

[larsen]

Mmmm, interesting... They also state SH3 sold about 80000 copies. Good figure...

[Hotwire]

Well, I got to page 8 of this thread, then found a bottle of vodka in tube 4, passed out.. and woke up somewhere east of Montana.

Basically..

*Insert arrow pointing down here.*

[The Avon Lady]

There's a new Ubi forum thread (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/2971043453) on SW.

The claims are now that they will now only include mods they received permission for or their own work.

:hmm:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Still i have already made uip my mind, and wont forget what the story is.
screw X 1, go all modders
Punktum

[Elder-Pirate]

X1 will never make it around these neck of the woods either. :hulk:

[Gizzmoe]

I see no reason why this thread should be kept sticky, so I unsticky it. We will see what the release version brings... According to Amazon.de it comes out on Sunday, the price is €19.99.

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000AQOHHQ/qid%3D1126251115/sr%3D1-36/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F2%5F36/302-1710042-1237613

[jasonb885]

I see no reason why this thread should be kept sticky, so I unsticky it. We will see what the release version brings... According to Amazon.de it comes out on Sunday, the price is €19.99.

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000AQOHHQ/qid%3D1126251115/sr%3D1-36/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F2%5F36/302-1710042-1237613

What a scam.

:nope:

[jasonb885]

There's a new Ubi forum thread (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/2971043453) on SW.

The claims are now that they will now only include mods they received permission for or their own work.

:hmm:

OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Guess who larrypenner67 is. No, seriously. It's the same style of comments from the CP lamer. He's astroturfing _again_. Someone with an account there please call this lamer out.

This is getting ridiculous.

:nope:


SW is being made by Combatplanes guys. I have one of their other game expansion "Aces Campaigns" for FB.. had to order from the UK which I hate.. but its pretty good package.

SW info is on there site..
http://www.combatplanes.ca

[Gizzmoe]

What a scam.

A scam? If Seawolves doesn´t contain any stolen mods and if it is a well-done, well-tested and easy to install all-in-one package it´s actually a good thing for people who usually don´t install mods, because it´s too complicated for them or they don´t have broadband or whatever other reason. I also think that €19.99 is not too much money.

[jasonb885]

What a scam.

A scam? If Seawolves doesn´t contain any stolen mods and if it is a well-done, well-tested and easy to install all-in-one package it´s actually a good thing for people who usually don´t install mods, because it´s too complicated for them or they don´t have broadband or whatever other reason. I also think that €19.99 is not too much money.

Given the obvious history I already exposed about the individuals involved, I think that's highly questionable.

Feel free to purchase a copy and let us know how it works out, though.

And you don't find it suspicious that Larry's atroturfing for his product under yet another alias? It's growing tired.

:hmm:

[Gizzmoe]

Given the obvious history I already exposed about the individuals involved, I think that's highly questionable.

We will see, maybe it´s great, maybe it sucks...

Feel free to purchase a copy and let us know how it works out, though.

I don´t need it, I have my own collection of mods.

And you don't find it suspicious that Larry's atroturfing for his product under yet another alias? It's growing tired.

I really don´t care, he can use as many aliases as he wants. That would make him a strange kind of person if that´s the case, but that doesn´t say anything about the quality of the product.

[jasonb885]

And you don't find it suspicious that Larry's atroturfing for his product under yet another alias? It's growing tired.

I really don´t care, he can use as many aliases as he wants. That would make him a strange kind of person if that´s the case, but that doesn´t say anything about the quality of the product.

Odd.

I'd say it speaks volumes of the quality, professionalism, and sanity of the individuals responsible and that ought to speak to the quality of what's released.

Whatever skips your rocks.

:roll:

[Blackmuzzle]

The CD has appeared in Austrian stores:

http://www.dschungel.com/dschungelshop/articles/search.asp?ANr=59677


"Seewölfe: U-Boote auf Jagd" stellt die erste in Deutschland erhältliche Erweiterung der extrem erfolgreichen U-Boot-Simulation "Silent Hunter III" dar. "Seewölfe" erweitert den ursprünglichen Kampagnen-Modus um Schiffsverkehr, neue Städte und Hafenanlagen, verbesserte Soundeffekte, ankernde Schiffe, zahlreiche Verteidigungsanlagen, zufallsgesteuerte Funkmitteilungen, zusätzliche Luft-Patrouillen, erweiterte Nachschubmöglichkeiten und vieles mehr. Das Atlantik-Szenario der "Seewölfe"-Kampagne ergänzt die Ostküste der USA im Originalspiel um etliche Städte und Hafenanlagen, neue Konvois sowie Schiffsverkehr in Übereinstimmung mit der späteren D-Day-Kampagne und dem amerikanischen Aufbau der Streitkräfte in Europa. Neue Verteidigungs- und Sperranlagen sowie geskriptete Task-Force-Aktivitäten sorgen für mehr Spannung. Erleben Sie den Seekrieg zwischen 1939 und 1945 aus der Sicht eines deutschen U-Boot-Kapitäns mit. Behalten Sie Ihre Mannschaft und Ihr Boot im Auge - realistisch und aufregend wie noch nie!

Price: 24 Euros.

[martes86]

Buf. SH3 costed here in Spain 19'95€. :hmm: :lol:

[gdogghenrikson]

why are we still whining about a game that isnt bieng released

[Beery]

why are we still whining about a game that isnt bieng released

Perhaps because it apparently HAS been released.

[jasonb885]

why are we still whining about a game that isnt bieng released

Perhaps because it apparently HAS been released.

And apparently MatrixGames is in on the scam.

:nope:

[joea]

why are we still whining about a game that isnt bieng released

Perhaps because it apparently HAS been released.

And apparently MatrixGames is in on the scam.

:nope:

I've been to the matrixgames site, ready to write a protest post, and seen no mention of the addon anywhere? You sure about that?

[Egan]

Good Lord! Is this fiasco still going on? I had almost forgotten about it.

I can't see anything on google about it being released nor can I see anything at Matrix. Is it definatley out?

[Beery]

It says it's out here:

http://www.dschungel.com/dschungelshop/articles/search.asp?ANr=59677

Search for it under its German name of "Seewölfe". Here are the results I got:

http://www.gamestar.de/news/pc-spiele/action/27877/

http://www.gbase.ch/pc/news/22249.html

http://www.games-release.de/pc/simulationen/silent-hunter-3-seewoelfe/

http://www.preistester.de/produkt/1/106861343468.shtml

http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/a163299.html

Apparently, Koch Media is publishing it in Germany.

[joea]

Ok found it, but still nothing at the Matrix site.

[Beery]

Ok found it, but still nothing at the Matrix site.

I don't think Matrix has picked it up. I think Jasonb885 was probably talking about the earlier efforts to get it published through Matrix. That deal, as far as I can tell, fell through when we told Matrix about the scam. The last I heard, they said they were not publishing it.

[Egan]

Well, if isnow out, I wonder whether he has thieved any more recent mods.....

[joea]

Well, glad that Matrix didn't publish it then. I wonder if anyone would make the sacrifce of picking it up to see what mods if any are in it? :hmm:

[Beery]

At least the German/Austrian communities are wise to the scam. I've been checking out the feedback on some of those game sites, and the German-speaking community is talking boycott and sending folks to RealSimulation.com to get the free mods.

[larsen]

No sign of it here in France...

[SteamWake]

OMG

You guys revived this thread ! LOL

Yall are fretting over a piece of software you cant even find out where it is on sale.

Im pretty sure thats an indication that its not a big commercial success. Just call it a hunch.

[Beery]

OMG

You guys revived this thread ! LOL

Yall are fretting over a piece of software you cant even find out where it is on sale....

Erm... I just posted links to like 4 sites where it IS on sale. You can buy it at Dschungelshop, Gamestar.de, Bol.de, Buch.de, Computeruniverse.net and here at Amazon.de:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000AQOHHQ/qid%3D1127309847/302-2903525-7991226

... and the TWELVE other places listed here:

http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/a163299.html

[Schultzy]

yep. I was just in Media Markt in Linz and Seewölfe was on sale for €24.99

I couldn't believe it. :roll:

[gdogghenrikson]

thats funny, best buy, eb games and gamestop have never heard of it

[Beery]

thats funny, best buy, eb games and gamestop have never heard of it

That's because we successfully lobbied their US distributor to drop the product, because it was a scam.

[america person]

umm ive been outta the loop for a while...what is it?

[Jace11]

Recently, I haven't been keeping up to date on this either, from the relative quiet I guess they were torpedoed amidships and sank without a trace.

Hats off the Herr Kaleuns that helped sink this whopper.. :cool:

[Beery]

Unfortunately though, it's gone ahead in Germany, which, by all accounts, is SH3's main market.

[america person]

what is it? or is this something that would get me banned? cuz you guys keep talkin bout it so it must be alright for me to ask

[CWorth]

what is it? or is this something that would get me banned? cuz you guys keep talkin bout it so it must be alright for me to ask

To save alot of typing and trying to explain a long story here are some links...

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40836&highlight=seewolves
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41535&highlight=seewolves
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40446

[Jace11]

Beery, you worry too much. Who is going to buy it? The cardinal rule of any business is don't pis*s off your customers. Most of the SH3 online community are aware to some extent on what Len and co tried to pull off. X1's reputation stinks and you cant go on any sh3 forum without seeing banners and reading stuff. All their smoke and mirrors approach was blown away.

But even more importantly, they KNOW its basically a cr*ap cd (we know whats on it) and there are tonnes of higher quality mods here and at the Turtle house. Its content is dwarfed by the free stuff available. Its irrelevent almost. I hope they print loads of cds, incure massive costs and make a loss on it...

Sure they will sell a few mail order and maybe a few to dodgy software stores. Its just I think this community wont buy it and so all they are left with is SH3 owners who never go online here or other forums. These Sh3 owners may not know about it at all therefore, or they may not play sh3 anymore or they may notice it in a store and see it really doesnt offer anything. Its quite expensive too for what it is.

I think i'll wait till its in the bargin bin for €1 then ill shoplift it..

[Jace11]

Hey, you know what... when it was first revealed that Steffan had kindly left it on his servers, the cover artwork was there too.

I wonder if someone still has it, then I could buy a few DVD cases, print a few covers and CDs and post it for free to anyone who is desperate for it..

[Beery]

Beery, you worry too much. Who is going to buy it?...

The Germans, apparently - and Germany is a big part of SH3's market. Go to the German SH3 forums and you won't find much (if anything) about the fact that it's a scam. They are finding out that it's not all that innovative and that the more innovative parts are similar to stuff that has been made freely available elsewhere, but they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen. I may be missing some things (my German is not all that good), but I don't see many 'warning - Seawolves scam!' or 'XI thieves!' posts there.

There's a big difference between a community that is told that an add-on is not all that good, and a community that is informed that an add-on is stolen. Out of hope, many will still buy an add-on that gets poor reviews. Very few will buy an add-on that is known to be a swindle. The Germans, it seems, are relatively unaware that this add-on exists to cheat them out of 25 euros.

[jasonb885]

Ok found it, but still nothing at the Matrix site.

I don't think Matrix has picked it up. I think Jasonb885 was probably talking about the earlier efforts to get it published through Matrix. That deal, as far as I can tell, fell through when we told Matrix about the scam. The last I heard, they said they were not publishing it.

Cool.

One small victory, even if some of the people on their forum were lamers.

:up:

[Gizzmoe]

but they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen.

Can you or anybody else prove that?

[terrapin]

I'll buy it today just to evaluate it; modders who are afraid that their mods were stolen should contact me through the usual channels...

[terrapin]

Bought it. The only thing professionally made is the cover. The installation itself seems pretty amateurish.

All original readmes of the mods contained have been consequently removed. So we must evualuate the files 1:1...

Questions? Send a PM

[Gizzmoe]

Doesn´t it include a readme with a "Credits go to..." list?

[terrapin]

Doesn´t it include a readme with a "Credits go to..." list?

no, the booklet lists some kind of 'credits', but that's not trustworthy, IMHo

[stratege]

keep up posted about 1:1 checks.

KUGW

[Gammel]

hihi, quite amusing the person who is probably the most hated to that company has bought their product... :P
:-j

[terrapin]

hihi, quite amusing the person who is probably the most hated to that company has bought their product... :P
:-j

:D :( ...no alternative, as I didn't receive a review copy for obvious reasons... ;)

[Egan]

Anything that looks like RUB ln it? Doubtful , of course, but the bugger is a thief.

[Beery]

Mods were definitely stolen. We have seen proof. How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, X1 is not exactly a company we can trust to do the right thing.

[terrapin]

Mods were definitely stolen. We have seen proof. How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, X1 is not exactly a company we can trust to do the right thing.

Yup, just found out that the soundwork of the german 'AOTD'-Clan is in - unauthorized. A member of 'AOTD' has confirmed it.

[Gizzmoe]

How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one.

Ten hours ago you wrote about the German community that "they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen." And now you write that you´re "pretty sure" that there is at least one stolen mod. You´ve answered my original question, you have no proof. Then I´m wondering why you use the words "scam", "swindle" and "stolen mods"...

[martes86]

If you see Sansal's Milk Cows, don't get surprised. In a meeting of the 24th Flotilla in August, he confirmed me that he authorized the mod to be put there. :yep:

Just wanted to clear this one out. :rock:

[Shadow9216]

Beery wrote:
How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one.


Ten hours ago you wrote about the German community that "they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen." And now you write that you´re "pretty sure" that there is at least one stolen mod. You´ve answered my original question, you have no proof. Then I´m wondering why you use the words "scam", "swindle" and "stolen mods"...

What proof are you demanding? If you're asking for proof from the release version, you have to wait for Terrapin's evaluation- and Beery didn't say he had purchased a release copy; his comment that he's sure there's at least one (stolen mod) wasn't offered as definitive proof- it was his assertion, based on the previous actions of the company. Over here, we call that probable cause.

"Scam- a fraudulent scheme, esp for making a quick, illegal profit"
"Swindle- to cheat out of money or other assets, to obtain by fraud or deceit"

I'd say the actions of those involved in Seewolves fit the above definitions- the common theme here is obtaining money through deceit. The bare fact is that the original seewolves contained mods which were used without author's permission. We have correspondence from X1 operatives indicating they knew they used mods improperly. After they were confronted and challenged, they belatedly attempted to gain permission to use these mods- that harkens back to the charge of "scam" and "swindle"...they were marketing a product they didn't have complete rights to.

Until Terrapin finishes his evaluation, we won't know for sure how many stolen mods are used in the release version- he's confirmed one. However, probable cause exists for us to continue to doubt X1's veracity, and their integrity. It seems laughable to criticize people here who express doubt about X1's product; X1 has failed the honesty litmus test, they get no benefit of the doubt. It is not enough for us to prove our claims, it is incumbent upon X1 to establish their credibility.

Several people on this board have posted lengthy proofs regarding this matter. To my mind they have satisfied the burden of proof that X1 attempted to perpetrate a fraud with the development of Seewolves. No one here needs to convince me any further of X1's wrongdoing- in fact, it is up to X1 (or their supporters, be there any) to provide proof of their honesty...and ultimately, as a responsible company concerned with profit margins and developing a customer base, they should be interested in winning back/over the doubters among us. Or do they still fear exposure of thier product?

[Gizzmoe]

What proof are you demanding? [...] It seems laughable to criticize people here who express doubt about X1's product;

There is a difference between being extremely sceptical towards X1 and, now that the release version is out, using libelous expressions like "X1=Thieves", "scam" and "swindle" and "stolen mods" - and all that without a proof.

Call them thieves or scammers as soon as they have lost a lawsuit, when they were branded as "thieves" by a court of law. Until then, don´t use such expressions. Don´t forget, libel is illegal.

[CWorth]

There is a difference between being extremely sceptical towards X1 and, now that the release version is out, using libelous expressions like "X1=Thieves", "scam" and "swindle" and "stolen mods" - and all that without a proof.

Call them thieves, scammers or whatever you like as soon as they have lost a lawsuit, when they were branded as "thieves" by a court of law. Until then, don´t use such expressions.

Have you even read anything of the other posts onthis subject..

WHAT MORE BLASTED PROOF DO YOU NEED!!!!!!

These people outright admitted to stealing mods without permission..that makes them THEIVES.Then planning on selling it for a profit makes them SCAMMERS and FRAUDS..end of story..case closed.

Only thing is they got caught and then did a backpeddle.

And I for one do not care one bit if they did remove the mods in question.That does not make it right all of a sudden.They still had the intentions of stealing and selling for profit the work of others and that makes them admitted theives and frauds.The intentions were there...that is all that matters.

[Gizzmoe]

WHAT MORE BLASTED PROOF DO YOU NEED!!!!!!

Don´t shout at me.

I and most others want to see proof that the final version contains stolen parts. What they did in the past is basically irrelevant from a legal standpoint.

[Shadow9216]

There is a difference between being extremely sceptical towards X1 and, now that the release version is out, using libelous expressions like "X1=Thieves", "scam" and "swindle" and "stolen mods" - and all that without a proof.

Ok, I see your point. Essentially, what they did previously is irrelevant now that the new release is out, and therefore the boyoctt X1 banners etc should all come down, until/unless we can prove the X1 addon still contains improperly obtained materials? Is that it? An interesting point :hmm: ...you're basically asking how long do we continue to punish X1 for past misdeeds? A hard question given X1's demonstrated lack of integrity- they did purloin mods, lie about having consent, stonewall attempts to gain information, and attempt to intimidate members of this community through personal attacks...kind of hard to forgive all of that, at least right away.

Call them thieves, scammers or whatever you like as soon as they have lost a lawsuit, when they were branded as "thieves" by a court of law. Until then, don´t use such expressions. Don´t forget, libel is illegal.

Libel is defined as defaming in print- defaming in turn is the false or unjustified injury of the good name or reputation of another. Calling X1 thieves after it has been shown that they misappropriated others work is neither false nor unjustified. Calling an attempt to make money by selling others work (freely available) a scam or a swindle is likewise neither false nor unjustified. Libel is illegal, just as theft of intellectual property and fraud are illegal. Who has the heavier burden of proof?

You say we should not use such expressions...in all honesty, I ask "why not?" Did X1's actions with the so-called "beta version" fit the definitions I gave above for a scam and/or swindle? If so, then calling them scammers and swindlers is perfectly acceptable. The only question we need be concerned with is this: is the criticism of X1, manifested by the banners etec, unjustified or false?

Originally, the answer is no- everything we said previously has been verified and substantiated. But like I said, you raise a good point- for argument's sake, what if the new pack is free of purloined materials and represents a new product, one which is immune to charges of fraud and/or theft of intellectual property? Although we are free to call for a continued boycott (and may be serving our own interests to do so), can we continue to carry the X1 Pirates banners? Our anti-X1 sig blocks? :hmm:

Ultimately though, my fear is this will remain an academic issue (though I would like to hear your thoughts on what you think a reasonable tactic would be?)...I believe there will be not one, but several mods of questionable heritage in this new product. Perhaps sufficiently altered to avoid a legal challenge of theft, but certainly not a whole new product- there's really no incentive for them to "reinvent the wheel", when the mods are freely available for them to download and alter as they see fit. :nope:

[HundertzehnGustav]

I ll jhust sit and wait for terrapin.
or should i say i ll jhust sit back and watch terrapin blast them away


hopefully. :D :oops: :D

aint no dum Guy that.

[terrapin]

I ll jhust sit and wait for terrapin.
or should i say i ll jhust sit back and watch terrapin blast them away


hopefully. :D :oops: :D

aint no dum Guy that.

this will take awhile...all I can say at this point is that sounds are definitely stolen - and the -'campaign' is more than buggy. With one word:

Crap

.

[CWorth]

WHAT MORE BLASTED PROOF DO YOU NEED!!!!!!

Don´t shout at me.

I and most others want to see proof that the final version contains stolen parts. What they did in the past is basically irrelevant from a legal standpoint.

Sorry about the yelling..

Just your asking people to not call them what they themselves have admitted to being and doing fits all definitions of the word thieves and scammers and frauds.That alone would stand up as a confession in any court.Whether or not they actually used the mods is irrelevent.As I stated the intention was there and that shows their integrity is none to sturdy for people to give them the benifit of the doubt.

You do make a good point on waiting and seeing if the release has any stolen mods..The big problem is that they have already done the damage to their reputations and for some people X1's past behavior is unforgivable and leaves alot of doubt as to whether or not they did remove them.

[HundertzehnGustav]

I ll jhust sit and wait for terrapin.
or should i say i ll jhust sit back and watch terrapin blast them away


hopefully. :D :oops: :D

aint no dum Guy that.

this will take awhile...all I can say at this point is that sounds are definitely stolen - and the -'campaign' is more than buggy. With one word:

Crap

.

Crap is your personal opinion, and do not count as facts :arrgh!: .
However, your opinion has influence on my oppinion. :up:

sounds are stolen you say, and little is left to prove it, filesize, stereo or mono, direct compare of frequencies via professional sound program etc. I believe.

I know it is a big package, and possibly a boring task, and frustrating too, given that you might find your Friends work "stolen".

I do not envy you for the task you take up on, and i have patience, lots of patience.

LOL

CRAP it is.

:rock: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Cheers, man...

[Beery]

Yup, just found out that the soundwork of the german 'AOTD'-Clan is in - unauthorized. A member of 'AOTD' has confirmed it.

Apparently, they even left the AOTD clan logo on one of the boat interior images. I'm sure Terrapin can easily confirm this, as it would be a tga image in the Textures folder. We've already been told that AOTD didn't authorize use of their stuff, so if this is the case, then I don't see how anyone could possibly defend X1 - there would be no doubt as to their criminal status.

[Gizzmoe]

Ok, I see your point. Essentially, what they did previously is irrelevant now that the new release is out, and therefore the boyoctt X1 banners etc should all come down, until/unless we can prove the X1 addon still contains improperly obtained materials? Is that it?

Not really. It´s not illegal to boycott them and everybody can use their "Boycott X1" banners as long as they like. But they shouldn´t contain libelous statements. "Why pay for free mods?" is ok.

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.

[terrapin]

Yup, just found out that the soundwork of the german 'AOTD'-Clan is in - unauthorized. A member of 'AOTD' has confirmed it.

Apparently, they even left the AOTD clan logo on one of the boat interior images. I'm sure Terrapin can easily confirm this, as it would be a tga image in the Textures folder. We've already been told that AOTD didn't authorize use of their stuff, so if this is the case, then I don't see how anyone could possibly defend X1 - there would be no doubt as to their criminal status.

Confirmed. FACT.

[Beery]

Ok, I see your point. Essentially, what they did previously is irrelevant now that the new release is out, and therefore the boyoctt X1 banners etc should all come down, until/unless we can prove the X1 addon still contains improperly obtained materials? Is that it?

Not really. It´s not illegal to boycott them and everybody can use their "Boycott X1" banners as long as they like. But they shouldn´t contain libelous statements. "Why pay for free mods?" is ok.

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.

There are no guesses. X1 are thieves - they've admitted it. The only question left unanswered is whether or not their published work contains the same stolen stuff they said they would include in the add-on. They stole mods and they said they were going to include them. I tend to believe them. It only remains to be seen whether they followed through on what they said they were going to do. I'm not sure why you're insisting on maintaining their innocence when they themselves have admitted their wrongdoing, and their intention to publish stolen mods. This was all known fact a long time ago. It's not like we're pulling these accusations out of thin air.

[Gizzmoe]

I'm not sure why you're insisting on maintaining their innocence when they themselves have admitted their wrongdoing, and their intention to publish stolen mods. This was all known fact a long time ago. It's not like we're pulling these accusations out of thin air.

What they did in the past was wrong, but it wasn´t really clear if the final release would contain improperly obtained materials or not. And don´t tell me that you were 100% sure about it, because nobody could knew it before actually analyzing the final product... The big question is, will the publishers pull it from the market when we find enough "stolen" mods?

[Wulfmann]

In 1971 John Kerry went to Paris and conducted secret negotiations with the enemy of the Untied States during a time of war. This is a direct violation of the Constitution and for a reserve naval officer, high treason punishable by death.
John Kerry also participated in a meeting of the VVAW in which the assassination of two members on congress was discussed (he voted against this). For a reserve naval officer not reporting this is high treason punishable by death. He did not report this, denied being there until films proved he was there. Oh, that meeting!!!
97% of the people that served with John Kerry in Vietnam (Mostly democrats) stated he was unfit for command and actively worked to prevent him becoming president.
So why hasn’t John Kerry been tried and shot in a public square for treason??
Well, In Massachusetts being a traitor gets you elected. (and nominated to be president, with great satisfaction by republicans, whew, thank God they didn’t nominate one of those guys that would have beaten Bush!))
Am I upset that John Kerry is not being charged for obvious treason? No more than OJ and MJ getting off for their offenses. It serves no positive purpose to dwell on things that can not be changed
Do I care if X-1 makes money or are beaten to death in the square John Kerry deserves to be shot in after being found guilty of the obvious treason?
Only to the extent we were past this and started back to constructively tweaking SH3.
We are not the people that will buy Seawolves.
Those that will buy it will likely never visit this site to hear what opinions are stated and what facts are proved.
Seawolves has been made, gone Gold in both German and English (can someone explain what that means, I don’t now) and those that made it are working on a new project.
Even they know when it is time to move on.
I too am interested in new facts but am unhappy with any actions that diminish and detract from what is the positive aspects of SH3 users at this site.
I look forward to the complete analysis from Terripin but wish the hate preaching would tone down.
It may get and amen from the choir, but it won’t attract converts and it certainly takes time away from improving and enjoying SH3.

Nothing you do or say about X-1 will make SH3 better. But, it will take away from the efforts that will.

Wulfmann

(PS, what I said about JK is as relevant as the continued trashing of X-1, something now in the past that can not be changed, both items)

[Beery]

What they did in the past was wrong, but it wasn´t really clear if the final release would contain improperly obtained materials or not.

Well, I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt at this stage. As far as I'm concerned, since they have shown that they are only too willing to defraud modmakers if they can get away with it, they have the burden of proof. This is not a court of law. It's a discussion forum for people to state opinions. It is my opinion that the people behind X1 are liars, thieves, cheats, and that they will happily defraud people if they see the opportunity. Nothing they have done so far has made me think that my opinion of them is in error.

[Seeteufel]

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.
Damn, just when I wanted too shout "X1 SUCKS!"... :hmm:

[Psycluded]

The 2 cents of a noob...

Coming from other modding communities (HalfLife, Unreal, etc), I can honestly say that having the product of your hard work, blood, sweat and tears stolen and used for someone else's profit without so much as a nod of thanks in the credits is not only insulting, it's a hell of an incentive to find a new hobby.

I just got STARTED on this game, so I want the mod community to stay alive. Stuff like this is how mod communities die... :nope:

[terrapin]

We should keep this whole thing highly professional. No flames, no personal attacks, no defamation, no guesses, just pure 100% facts.
Damn, just when I wanted too shout "X1 SUCKS!"... :hmm:


Glad you didn't make it personally saying Len Hjalmarson and Steffen Trombke are suckers...

[Blackmuzzle]

Um people, what's wrong?

1) The CD is being sold. This is a fact. Yet some folks doubt that.

2) Several MODs have been stolen. This is also a fact. Again, we keep hearing "...but maybe..." and "...what proof..."

It's good to be cautions, but I'm beginning to have some doubts about the identity of some of the forum users here.


@Beery: You are a bit mistaken. If you say "I believe X1 is a bad company" then this is an opinion. However, if you say that X1 has stolen something, then it's not an opinion anymore. It's a claim. In this case, a righteous one though. If it weren't, they could sue you for it. Well they already can, but I am very certain that they won't because they'd loose. ;)

[Beery]

It's good to be cautions, but I'm beginning to have some doubts about the identity of some of the forum users here.

I think the problem stems from the fact that a lot of the history of this issue is not too well-known among the newer members (for example, very few people here know about the Matrix Games publication deal and how it got scuppered when the top guys at Matrix found out about the X1 scam), and this topic had been dead for a while until the Seewoelfe add-on got published in the last few days.

[Beery]

@Beery: You are a bit mistaken. If you say "I believe X1 is a bad company" then this is an opinion. However, if you say that X1 has stolen something, then it's not an opinion anymore. It's a claim.

As I understand it, all online forums are the equivalent of 'op-ed' pages. They contain only opinion. If that wasn't the case, then Ubisoft could sue a lot of the people who said that SH3 was garbage.

[Jace11]

Some strange people here. Perhaps they just enjoy the challenge of defending a lost cause. Like OJ's defence lawyer, one day they hope to get lucky and turn the tide of truth with protracted, boring falsehoods and a distain for facts.

Anyway I saw the proof, I know what they tried to do, and you can shout "opinion" all you want but even in a court of law it is the opinion of 12 that decide. In this case the majority know the correct facts and a few dissenters are all that remain. They obviously enjoy their position a little too much, probably gives some grandiose feeling of self importance.

I haven't seen them disprove any of the allegations regarding Seewolves (pre-release "leaked" version). The pre-release would be the current release version that is out now had we not found what it contained. They changed it because we found out. That is an admission of guilt in itself..

[Beery]

The pre-release would be the release version that is out now had we not found what it contained. They changed it because we found out. That is an admission of guilt in itself..

That's true, and I'd never thought of it that way. If they thought what they were doing was all legal and above board, they would have released it as it was.

[jasonb885]

How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one.

Ten hours ago you wrote about the German community that "they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen." And now you write that you´re "pretty sure" that there is at least one stolen mod. You´ve answered my original question, you have no proof. Then I´m wondering why you use the words "scam", "swindle" and "stolen mods"...

These people have demonstrated they're professional scammers. The burden of proof is on them.

Plus, it was hilarious last time they dropped in to pimp their product here.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Confirmed. FACT.

LOL that sounds like terrapin is pointing his rifle at X1, and angrily :arrgh!: :hulk: waiting anticipating :huh: the order to shoot :hulk: :rock: tem in the butt :rock: :rock: :rock:

and he is not alone

%§&@ X1 software

:hulk: :hulk: :hulk: :hulk: :hulk: :hulk:

[The Avon Lady]

Just posting to flash my sig. :smug:

[Jace11]

Just been over to the german forums, they are at again, this time steffan (cause he speaks german) under alias. My german is poor but it is pretty obvious at least one new poster in that thread (3 posts ever and 10 paragraphs of X1 Love) is steffan weaving his magic.

I left some advice for people reading the forum, but had to do it english cause my german is so aweful.

I really hope they don't fall for their tricks.

[jasonb885]

Just been over to the german forums, they are at again, this time steffan (cause he speaks german) under alias. My german is poor but it is pretty obvious at least one new poster in that thread (3 posts ever and 10 paragraphs of X1 Love) is steffan weaving his magic.

I left some advice for people reading the forum, but had to do it english cause my german is so aweful.

I really hope they don't fall for their tricks.

Just repost my crap from earlier in this thread.

Those that can read English will get the message, anyway.

[Beery]

I just posted over there in what I can only hope is decypherable to German speakers. Most likely I've butchered the German language and I may have confused more people than my earlier English post did. I suppose at least I've tried. :doh:

P.S. If someone who understands German happens to read it, please do me the favour of telling me whether it's somewhat understandable, or whether it's complete gobbledegook, and most importantly, whether or not it says what I meant it to say. :D

[Gizzmoe]

P.S. If someone who understands German happens to read it, please do me the favour of telling me whether it's somewhat understandable, or whether it's complete gobbledegook, and most importantly, whether or not it says what I meant it to say. :D

It´s understandable and yes, I think they will absolutely get your point.

[terrapin]

ALAAAARM!

Reg_McNeal (a.k.a. Len Hjalmarson of Combatplanes) just registered at the German Ubi forums and is posting the known BS overthere

http://forums-de.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/469102863/m/4761066653

Page 6 and (most likely) following

[joea]

To all German and German speaking SH3 players and mod supporters:

BEGINNEN SIE ANGRIFF :lurk:


Edit:

Did you read Reg McNeal's post?

Yesterday I emailed combatplanes and X1 to thank them and was glad to hear that they are planning to release a series of patches which will add Leigh Lights on planes, Wolfpacks with firing submarines, a new hospital ship with 3 skins for the campaign (if you sink it you are court marshalled!) and better, bigger convoys with zig-zag routes. I can't wait for the first patch which they said will be out next month Smile And don't worry they said they have permission off the makers of these mods already and the download will be so small all people can get it for once.
They ALREADY have ripped off Segbuto, iambecomelife and I forgot who made the Leigh Light mod!!!!
:x Honestly Gizzmoe what proof do you need? How could they make these mods so quickly for the patch!!!

Second edit: Thanks Gizzmoe. We need to get the word out ... again.

[terrapin]

Modders, PLEASE NOTE This is a quote from Reg_McNeal in the German Ubi forum:

'...was glad to hear that they are planning to release a series of patches which will add Leigh Lights on planes, Wolfpacks with firing submarines, a new hospital ship with 3 skins for the campaign (if you sink it you are court marshalled!) and better, bigger convoys with zig-zag routes. I can't wait for the first patch which they said will be out next month '...

[Gizzmoe]

Time to make this thread sticky again...

[terrapin]

Time to make this thread sticky again...


Yeah!

[kiwi_2005]

heading to periscope depth.

[Syxx_Killer]

Ugghh... I feel sick to my stomach. Will someone please make a merchant skin bearing the X1 Software logo? Maybe add them as a nationality "X1 Software Pirates" or something. Then, we could have a pirate flag with the cargo. Maybe they'd like to release that in their "patch." :arrgh!: :arrgh!: Grrr... :hulk: :hulk: :hulk:

[terrapin]

@Gizzmoe: I for sure understand your position inhere, but I worded the sentence carefully.

I'll post it on my own site <Moderator edit: Part deleted. Again, do not write such things in here - Gizzmoe>

:)

[Gizzmoe]

@Gizzmoe: I for sure understand your position inhere, but I worded the sentence carefully.

BS! Don´t ever do that again.

I'll post it on my own site

It´s a stupid idea, no matter where you post it.

[Beery]

I'm reading the German forum thread in question, and it seems the forum members are wise to X1's scam. Basically the word over there is that Seawolves is not only stolen, but it's overpriced, bug-ridden and poorly-assembled too.

It seems X1 couldn't even be bothered to test the add-on, to make sure that the good mods they stole were compatible with one another. This Seawolves thing has all the characteristics of a financial disaster, and (in my opinion) it couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people. Perhaps, after this, they will give up (what in my opinion is) software piracy altogether and start stealing old ladies' purses instead. Unlike modders, old ladies can't defend themselves.

[terrapin]

@Gizzmoe: I for sure understand your position inhere, but I worded the sentence carefully.

BS! Don´t ever do that again.

I'll post it on my own site

It´s a stupid idea, no matter where you post it.

I disagree, but I suggest we'll end this discussion?

[Gizzmoe]

I disagree, but I suggest we'll end this discussion?

Ok.

[HundertzehnGustav]

That sounds like : everybody stop modding, they will steal it anyway.

and also

Re - start modding again only once you are shure these scumbags are safely placed in Jail.

@ X1
*Middle finger* :hulk:

If i ever happen to meet one of these people on the street...

[Gizzmoe]

That sounds like : everybody stop modding, they will steal it anyway.

and also

Re - start modding again only once you are shure these scumbags are safely placed in Jail.

Yes, but that makes no sense. They won´t go away just because we stop modding and delete every mod from every site. "Seawolves" can only be stopped with legal pressure. That´s why I don´t understand Terrapin´s decision to close his site.

[HundertzehnGustav]

stop modding

shoot the Bee-starts in the head and warn everybody else (stating an example of what happens to mod stealers)

restart modding


is that any more accurate? :D

[HundertzehnGustav]

OSSI

""" Einige Mods vom dem Add-on gibt es auch kostenlos im Internet. Übringends bin ich der Publisher von dem Add-on."""


Dieses Arschloch oder was geht n hier ab???? :hulk: :hulk:

:stare: :o :o

[HundertzehnGustav]

UBI_Marc

@OSSI: Ich bitte Sie die Werbung für das inoffizielle Add-On sofort in diesem Forum zu beenden.

Vielen Dank für ihr Verständnis...


ROFLOLLLL :rotfl: :rock: :rock:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Re line through the whole shebang:
Ossi gets his Butt waxed, UBI distances itself from him, and AOTD will enforce laws on him.

ohh looks likee fun. :D :rock: :rotfl:

[Jace11]

Well, its out to buy..

http://forum.sukhoi.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=46895

From a russian forum I think..

[jasonb885]

...
Did you read Reg McNeal's post?

Yesterday I emailed combatplanes and X1 to thank them and was glad to hear that they are planning to release a series of patches which will add Leigh Lights on planes, Wolfpacks with firing submarines, a new hospital ship with 3 skins for the campaign (if you sink it you are court marshalled!) and better, bigger convoys with zig-zag routes. I can't wait for the first patch which they said will be out next month Smile And don't worry they said they have permission off the makers of these mods already and the download will be so small all people can get it for once.
They ALREADY have ripped off Segbuto, iambecomelife and I forgot who made the Leigh Light mod!!!!
:x Honestly Gizzmoe what proof do you need? How could they make these mods so quickly for the patch!!!

Second edit: Thanks Gizzmoe. We need to get the word out ... again.

LOL.

They've already ripped off IC with CCIP's Zig Zags? I was wondering when that would happen.

I'm glad my 80 some odd development hours on that are going in without my notification or compensation or anyone else involved in IC. Very kind of Len.

[Shadow9216]

Anyone have any contacts in the gaming press? Perhaps they'd be interested in doing a feature story on how piracy is alive and well in the modern age.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

CCIP did the "Leigh Light" mod.... Looks like X1 is screwing him over too!!! :hulk:

[Seeteufel]

BTW, what about this sh*t:

Originally posted by Reg_McNeal:
...
http://www.combatplanes.ca/seawolves.htm

This is the authors website where it says -
* an 18 mission campaign for the American GATO class in the Pacific

and I was surprised when I installed it that I got such a comprehensive pacific campaign with japanese destroyers and transports to sink. And you DO get a brand new US submarine and here are the screenshots of it. Look for yourselves:

http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3-images2.htm

posted by marc_schreck in the german forum:

quote:
Originally posted by mojoe86:
I cant visit the second link, maybe the server is down. Whatever the reason is.

Der Grund ist, daß sie die Bilder in der HTML Datei falsch verlinkt haben, es sollten diese Bilder sein:
(...cause the combatplane dudes f*cked up the HTML code...)

http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/sh3-career.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/sh3-single.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/sh-pearlharbor2.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/gato2.jpg (http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/gato2.jpg)
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/sh3-gato1b.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/sh3-gato2.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/sh3-pearl1.jpg


...well, not a single screenshot of the "Gato"-boat ingame, maybe because there is none ? :hmm:

Can anyone show a screenie of the Gato-thingy INGAME ? :hmm:

I have serious doubt... ;)

EDIT:

OK, I just read in the german forum that the "brand new Gato-sub" is a german type IX D2 boat, with german crew, german uniforms, original interior, german torpedoes etc...

Yea, this addon seems like a must-have :rock:

BTW, @Beery, your german is quite good! :up:

[Shadow9216]

I just advised iambecomelife in the mods forum to send reg mcneal a "cease and desist" notice, with copies on all the major forums (fora), as well as to the publishers; I recommended including that he will consider all options available to him in the event they choose to disregard the notice.

They backed off once before, maybe they'll back down again if the original modders contact them specifically advising them that consent was not obtained prior to release. Perhaps the publication of that notice might be enough to dent sales and/or give marketers pause for thought...

I had offered before to draft a letter detailing X1's nefarious behavior. Although that idea died, I think it would be a good idea for the community, specifically those modders whose work was purloined, to get a summary of previous X1 dealings to place alongside summaries of X1's current dealings- would certainly help create a stronger, more straightforward case. Maybe someone could translate it into German, print it off, and leave copies at the stores where seewolves is being sold? Make people think anyway...

[CWorth]

I see things this way...they stole the mods which is a fact and are planning on doing it again,BUT...unless someone actually does something about it in a court action or lawsuit you will get nowhere.

All your posts in this thread and elsewhere simply wont do anything.X1 simply ignores you and goes ahead anyhow.You have to take legal action not simply yap and complain about it on a forum if you actually want to stop them.Talk is cheap and actions DO speak louser than words.

[The Avon Lady]

This has to be handled by lawyers in the legal realm (Germany? EU?) where the marketer is located.

Maybe we need to set up a community legal fund and chip in a bit? :hmm:

Any attornies here? Or anyone with an attorney friend that can help?

Legal recourse is the way to stop them and make them pay through the nose, if they are indeed guilty of intellectual property theft.

[Gizzmoe]

What´s the evidence so far? We know that some AOTD Clan sounds were used without permission. What else have they included without asking the owners?

[Mowgli]

What´s the evidence so far? We know that some AOTD Clan sounds were used without permission. What else have they included without asking the owners?

We shall have to get a copy and examine it. But it is fairly safe to say that if they "used without permission" just one mod, then they have shown they are more than willing to "use" other mods.

[vils]

Hm not very wise to shut the uboot site down, this only shows that X1 has won. They wanna stop mod-sharing, and apparrantly the admin of uboot-site is accepting this by shuttin ghis site down.

Re-think this pls, [...] <Moderator edit: Do not suggest illegal behaviour - Gizzmoe>

[Gizzmoe]

I had to delete two posts and edit two others in this thread since Friday, that´s too much. Please behave!!!!!

[joea]

What´s the evidence so far? We know that some AOTD Clan sounds were used without permission. What else have they included without asking the owners?

Well you saw "Reg" claiming they are planning patches to add Leigh Lights, zig zag convoys, a hospital ship unit (whose? iambecomelife wrote specifically his mod si not for payware) and woflpacks with firign subs. All are current recent freeware mods, pretty sucpicious, or maybe they'll ask the modders permission before adding them to the patch. :roll:

[The Avon Lady]

What´s the evidence so far? We know that some AOTD Clan sounds were used without permission. What else have they included without asking the owners?

Well you saw "Reg" claiming they are planning patches to add Leigh Lights, zig zag convoys, a hospital ship unit (whose? iambecomelife wrote specifically his mod si not for payware) and woflpacks with firign subs. All are current recent freeware mods, pretty sucpicious, or maybe they'll ask the modders permission before adding them to the patch. :roll:
See JoeA's post here (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=395495#395495) for the details.

Is there a lawyer in the house? :shifty:

[Gizzmoe]

Well you saw "Reg" claiming they are planning patches to add Leigh Lights, zig zag convoys, a hospital ship unit (whose? iambecomelife wrote specifically his mod si not for payware) and woflpacks with firign subs. All are current recent freeware mods, pretty sucpicious, or maybe they'll ask the modders permission before adding them to the patch. :roll:

Yes, I saw it, but for a lawyer it´s more relevant what´s in the commercial package that´s for sale in stores right now. What they release in a patch in a month or so doesn´t matter at the moment.

[Seeadler]

Yes, I saw it, but for a lawyer it´s more relevant what´s in the commercial package that´s for sale in stores right now.
the most relevant thing for a lawyer is the litigation value because he base his bills on it. :lol:

For Seawolves this value is 24.95€, so for the first consultation he may require only 17€ based on the BRAGO (Bundesgebührenordnung für Rechtsanwälte) because the litigation value is below 300€ :cool:

[Duke of Earl]

This has to be handled by lawyers in the legal realm (Germany? EU?) where the marketer is located.

Maybe we need to set up a community legal fund and chip in a bit? :hmm:

Any attornies here? Or anyone with an attorney friend that can help?

Legal recourse is the way to stop them and make them pay through the nose, if they are indeed guilty of intellectual property theft.

No one here has standing to sue X1... except the modder who has suffered actual damages due to actual copyright infringement... but, what are the damages, if any?... and does the modder hold an actual copyright to anything?...

Then, there is the question of what law applies, what court has jurisdiction, and where is the proper venue for litigation?...

Right now, private detectives are probably needed to gather in all the facts.... names, addresses, dates, telephone numbers, website login records, emails, retail sales records, software publication records, etc.... before any lawsuit is filed...

Gathering pre-suit evidence, just to determine what liability and damages exist, if any at all, is very time consuming and requires a lot of voluntatry cooperation from other people, which is seldom forthcoming...

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

[The Avon Lady]

Well then..............................

........................... bomb them! :smug:

[Psycluded]

/me agrees & sends the B-2s.

[Ostfriese]

FYI: Gamestar, one of Germany's best selling PC Game Magazines, doesn't even mention X1's filthy piece of junk in the latest issue (11 / 05, will be in stores on Wednesday, subscribers got their issues today).

[Nico71]

I'd prefer to see a review! Or at least a public debate about it. Because this doesn't only happen with SH3 mods. People should be made aware of it.

[X1Software]

X1Software assures that the add-on „Seawolves" contains no stolen software and no third-party rights were violated.

The use of every mod has been approved by the respective developer.

All modified sound files were made by the company http://www.incognito-soundworks.com and have been licensed properly!

To be frank, we are tired of getting denounced from anonymous persons here. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but rather with the intention of damaging our business. Interestingly enough, the people responsible do not appear with their correct names and addresses, surely because they are afraid of a civil lawsuit or criminal prosecution.

Please do not let yourself be influenced by those devious and cowardly persons. We are more than prepared to face any adversary in court.

X1Software

Steffen Trombke
http://www.x1software.com
steffen.trombke@x1software.com

[The Avon Lady]

X1Software assures that the add-on „Seawolves" contains no stolen software and no third-party rights were violated.

The use of every mod has been approved by the respective developer.

All modified sound files were made by the company http://www.incognito-soundworks.com and have been licensed properly!

To be frank, we are tired of getting denounced from anonymous persons here. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but rather with the intention of damaging our business. Interestingly enough, the people responsible do not appear with their correct names and addresses, surely because they are afraid of a civil lawsuit or criminal prosecution.

Please do not let yourself be influenced by those devious and cowardly persons. We are more than prepared to face any adversary in court.

X1Software

Steffen Trombke
http://www.x1software.com
steffen.trombke@x1software.com
Folks, please note Nico71's updated accusation of X1's ongoing piracy (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=396023#396023).

[Justin Prince]

Note to self..... asking modders to sell their stuff and thinking about asking them to sell their stuff are two different things..... OOOPS :down:

[HundertzehnGustav]

*We are more than prepared to face any adversary in court. *


and in the streets? The world is big, and there are many dark corners.
At least you make clear who you are this time, instead of hiding under a nik (ossi) or something....

i gotta give you credit for that.


Legal hairsplitting about wether you are "right" by the definition or you made a mistake... I dont like the way you handle all this.

90 per cent of the users here think similar of you (correct me if not),
i wouldnt even bother coming over here...

It is like asking for trouble and getting the boot.

[Gairith]

X1Software assures that the add-on „Seawolves" contains no stolen software and no third-party rights were violated.

The use of every mod has been approved by the respective developer.

All modified sound files were made by the company http://www.incognito-soundworks.com and have been licensed properly!

To be frank, we are tired of getting denounced from anonymous persons here. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but rather with the intention of damaging our business. Interestingly enough, the people responsible do not appear with their correct names and addresses, surely because they are afraid of a civil lawsuit or criminal prosecution.

Please do not let yourself be influenced by those devious and cowardly persons. We are more than prepared to face any adversary in court.

X1Software

Steffen Trombke
http://www.x1software.com
steffen.trombke@x1software.com


No list of the modders and their mods that were approved for the add-on? You would think that anyone especially a company, would defend themselves with a full list of these things and not just a single link regarding sounds which really weren't in question. X1 probably doesn't have such a list having thrown out the previous list when they were caught red-handed and now have no clue what is really in there since they scrambled to pick out pieces at the last minute. A shoddy well done to you :up: .

[jasonb885]

...

To be frank, we are tired of getting denounced from anonymous persons here. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but rather with the intention of damaging our business. Interestingly enough, the people responsible do not appear with their correct names and addresses, surely because they are afraid of a civil lawsuit or criminal prosecution.


Trombke, my tool, would you or your associates like to post any more pornography here?

Thanks for playing.

:rotfl:

The mere fact that you've resorted to posting here is rather hilarious. It indicates that even 'anonymous' threats from an Internet forum are causing you pain. Perhaps you aren't making the sales you wish your poorly developed payware mod would.

In any event, I have nothing to hide.

Jason Boxman
jasonb@edseek.com

*goes to polish his X1 boycott sign*

[John Channing]

While I may agree with the underlying sentiments being expressed here I need to remind everyone that name calling, threats of physical violence and other such silliness is not only beneath the people here but it is simply not allowed, regardless of who it is directed at.

Thanks

JCC

[HundertzehnGustav]

Roger.... :oops:

[Seeadler]

In the official german SH3 forums, Ubisoft dissociates itself from this add-on and asks for no further discussions or advertisement about this product in that forums.

[Wulfmann]

I know this will sound like I told you so, but the events are what they are.

Before X-1 there was a discussion about protecting SH3 freeware modes from payware add ons.
There were a number of suggestions.
I was new to SH3 then and while I have modded many things in SH3 I have not offered any other than to a few dozen people that asked for them via email.
But, I have been a CFS3 modder (The only way to make that decent is heavy modding) so I am aware of pirating.
There was a site that took all the CFS3 freeware mods and put them there for free but one had to pay a $20.00 a year membership fee to “cover bandwidth”
OK, fool me once!!
Here is what I added to all my downloads and not one has been pirated since:

Legal:
These missions and spawns are copyright original material and cannot be copied, altered or redistributed and are freeware for the single PC user that downloads these missions. They may not be offered by any other web site without paying Bob (Wulfmann) Ruff the sum of $100,000.00 US dollars.

(I wanted an amount that allowed for an attorney to make it worth while to cause his greed glands to salivate) LOL

When I suggested modders in SH3 add this I was condescendingly told no such drastic action was needed here, suggesting it was just not likely to go to such extremes..
I have not been pirated since I added this clause.
Seems like that can not be said here, can it!!!

So, what can the legal minds tell us regarding such a statement (or a better one) to protect further possible “pirating”????

The community is better served by enjoying the game and improving it. Even if this situation was won and X-1 and all involved were hung, we the community would have been diminished by the fight.
We can not undo that.

But, we can make sure it can not happen again and adding an effective legal statement which prevents stealing/copying etc, would possibly avoid such a future depressing event; which is my point.

Wulfmann

[Frenchie]

This is not quite how I imagined making my first post but meh. At present I am a college student doing filming and sound production. We have lengthy lectures to do with copyright issues because they are an absolutely littered minefield. The main issue people who have made mods for this game will have is proving they made them first. Forum records of dates they have been posted, file creation dates are usually not allowed because such things can be altered. For any work we produce and that we seriously want copyright protected we need to creat a hardcopy, have it recorded delivery to ourself so that dates and time are shown and then have a nice legal friend store it in their safe. That way if such an occurence as this happens, evidence is easily found and not easily controverted.

The main problem in such a case as this are the fees involved. because the case will drag on as ownership is debated the bills keep coming. In the case of the individual taking on a company if they don't win fees can be astronomic, if they don't beggar themselves before the case is through.

My main advice in this case is to produce an official letter from the community and send it to ubisoft and as many games websites, magazines and shops as possible explaining the situation; Advising that the majority of the market are not going to fork out money for such an 'expansion' and that 'the community hopes such an outstanding and honest company such as yourselves, (insert web, magazine or shop name here) will refrain from stocking said expansion.' I would also suggest, as the company is based in Germany, trying to find an address or website for the European Union's trading standards board (There must be such a thing, the EU's got it's fingers in everything else) and write to them also, seeing if they can bring any pressure to bear.

In the future, as has been mentioned, add a lengthy disclaimer to the websites which have these mods, saying they are not for resale, etc,etc. And make hardcopies of your work. It is worth doing it. If you want an example, The British seaman who designed the bow ramps for carriers did not recieve credit for his invention. He showed the designs to his CO who proceeded to claim the idea as his own. You never know when your work is going to be valuable.

Good luck to you. Quite frankly the situation stinks.

Pleasant voyages,

Frenchie

[SubSerpent]

Who is the head of X1? Is it someone that fequents this forum?

[mattius]

After reading all this I have just cancelled my order from Play.com! :o

[The Avon Lady]

After reading all this I have just cancelled my order from Play.com! :o
Thank you. You seem to be new here. Welcome! If you need help with the myriad of available ****FREE**** great mods, just ask around. Lots of knowledgeable folks at SubSim.

[Catfish]

Hello Mattius,
and right so :yep: ! You can download each and every mod you would get from X1' Seawolves payware from different sites for free - from the modders that made them. And you have the advantage that those mods will be up to date concerning every detail.
Oh, and welcome to the forum,
Catfish

edit: P.S. Avon lady, you beat me everytime ;)

[CWorth]

After reading all this I have just cancelled my order from Play.com! :o

Good show.. :up: :up: :up:

Best choice you could have made.

And welcome to the forum.