[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics

[Digital_Trucker]

Werner, good luck on your exams. We'll be all the happier for the wait when your wonderful finished product is released:up:

[sevn_up]

Good luck on your exams. We all really appreciate all your hard work.

[baxter]

Thanks for the update Werner. I have no problem being patient with this, especially since I found out I can use 3.3 with ver 1.4, TM, ROW and RSRDC. Best of luck on your exams...:up:

[Master]

This mod is the reason I bought SH4. Then I found out that the keels still dont work properly. I an eagerly awaiting your next version. Good luck on your exams.

[HEMISENT]

Just sunk my first freighter with this mod. She took one hit fwd on the port side (summer 42 it took 4 fish to get one that actually worked). The ship gradually slowed from 10kts down to 4. I surfaced and put about 25 rounds into her port side from bow to stern. After about 30 minutes she slowly capsized.

Never had this happen before-GREAT WORK! Can't wait for upcoming release.

[WernerSobe]

NSM 4 is finished.

Just some polish work need to be done as well as the readme. Its awesome, if you liked NSM3 you will love NSM4. If you didnt like NSM before you will maybe now :-).

main features are the fully working keel damage, entirely new damage balance and entirely new compartment layout for every ship (even sampans).

heads up for release shortly.

ps: i have no internet for the next few days, so i will not be able to answer question during that time.

[Galanti]

Outstanding, Wernersobe! I will hold off on USS Plunger's next patrol until it's ready.

I assume it will be fully compatible with TM and RSRD?

[Doolittle81]

Congratulations on finishing and Thanks!

A quick question. Please let us know in what order NSM4 should be installed...first, last,etc...before ROW and RSRD, etc..

Also, will NSM 4 come in just one version (No Light versus Classic versions)?

Finally, there was a post some time ago warning that "ROW Special Effects for Stock SH4_vs5" would NOT work with NSM 3.3. Do you (or anyone else) know if that MOD will work now with NSM4?

[Will-Rommel]

I'm impatiently waiting for this one ! I love this mod, can't wait to see how it will look now. :rock:

[LukeFF]

Finally, there was a post some time ago warning that "ROW Special Effects for Stock SH4_vs5" would NOT work with NSM 3.3. Do you (or anyone else) know if that MOD will work now with NSM4?

Files from both mods have to be integrated in order for the two to work together.

[Doolittle81]

Finally, there was a post some time ago warning that "ROW Special Effects for Stock SH4_vs5" would NOT work with NSM 3.3. Do you (or anyone else) know if that MOD will work now with NSM4?

Files from both mods have to be integrated in order for the two to work together.
Uhhh..Sooo...that means some smart Mod-Maker would have to do something to make it all work together? I really don't know how anyone can do without NSM...nor without any Mod which starts with "ROW..."

[imbiginjapan]

NSM 4 is finished.

Just some polish work need to be done as well as the readme. Its awesome, if you liked NSM3 you will love NSM4. If you didnt like NSM before you will maybe now :-).

main features are the fully working keel damage, entirely new damage balance and entirely new compartment layout for every ship (even sampans).

heads up for release shortly.

ps: i have no internet for the next few days, so i will not be able to answer question during that time.


Oh, excellent. This mod adds so much to the game. I tried playing without it the other day and got depressed. Ships sinking in under a minute should not be a common occurrence.

[ReallyDedPoet]

NSM 4 is finished.

Just some polish work need to be done as well as the readme. Its awesome, if you liked NSM3 you will love NSM4. If you didnt like NSM before you will maybe now :-).

main features are the fully working keel damage, entirely new damage balance and entirely new compartment layout for every ship (even sampans).

heads up for release shortly.

ps: i have no internet for the next few days, so i will not be able to answer question during that time.

Nice stuff WS :yep::up:


RDP

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I started using NSM3 last night and it's pretty neat!:up: Sent four torps into a Heavy Cruiser and sticking around wondering if she'll sink. Awaiting your update, sir!:up:

[billko]

Finally, there was a post some time ago warning that "ROW Special Effects for Stock SH4_vs5" would NOT work with NSM 3.3. Do you (or anyone else) know if that MOD will work now with NSM4?

Files from both mods have to be integrated in order for the two to work together.
Uhhh..Sooo...that means some smart Mod-Maker would have to do something to make it all work together? I really don't know how anyone can do without NSM...nor without any Mod which starts with "ROW..."

Funny you should mention it... as a tribute to Dave/Leovampire, I am going to shoulder this part of the load and make NSM (4.x) zones for ROW. Hopefully, Werner can help me understand the zones and then be gracious enough to grant me permission to modify his work to fit ROW. I'm a "Mod-Maker," but I don't know about "smart." It's debatable. ;)

Bill

[ReallyDedPoet]

Finally, there was a post some time ago warning that "ROW Special Effects for Stock SH4_vs5" would NOT work with NSM 3.3. Do you (or anyone else) know if that MOD will work now with NSM4?
Files from both mods have to be integrated in order for the two to work together. Uhhh..Sooo...that means some smart Mod-Maker would have to do something to make it all work together? I really don't know how anyone can do without NSM...nor without any Mod which starts with "ROW..."
Funny you should mention it... as a tribute to Dave/Leovampire, I am going to shoulder this part of the load and make NSM (4.x) zones for ROW. Hopefully, Werner can help me understand the zones and then be gracious enough to grant me permission to modify his work to fit ROW. I'm a "Mod-Maker," but I don't know about "smart." It's debatable. ;)

Bill

I was wondering where you were at with this Bill :roll:, nice to see it is still in the works :up:


RDP

[Digital_Trucker]

Funny you should mention it... as a tribute to Dave/Leovampire, I am going to shoulder this part of the load and make NSM (4.x) zones for ROW. Hopefully, Werner can help me understand the zones and then be gracious enough to grant me permission to modify his work to fit ROW. I'm a "Mod-Maker," but I don't know about "smart." It's debatable. ;)

Bill

Yo, Bill, if you need anything in this regard, let me know. I've been looking at it myself for a bit for NSM 3.3, but hadn't gotten very far into it when Werner announced that 4 was ready. If you need an extra head (half empty as it is :arrgh!: ), let me know.

Edit : For those of you who are adventurous, if you use only the materials.dat and particles.dat files from the mod, you will at least get the better looking flames and smoke and oil fires. I haven't tested much more than blowing up a tanker, so I can't guarantee if it will cause any problems or not.

[DrBeast]

Finally, there was a post some time ago warning that "ROW Special Effects for Stock SH4_vs5" would NOT work with NSM 3.3. Do you (or anyone else) know if that MOD will work now with NSM4?
Files from both mods have to be integrated in order for the two to work together. Uhhh..Sooo...that means some smart Mod-Maker would have to do something to make it all work together? I really don't know how anyone can do without NSM...nor without any Mod which starts with "ROW..."
Funny you should mention it... as a tribute to Dave/Leovampire, I am going to shoulder this part of the load and make NSM (4.x) zones for ROW. Hopefully, Werner can help me understand the zones and then be gracious enough to grant me permission to modify his work to fit ROW. I'm a "Mod-Maker," but I don't know about "smart." It's debatable. ;)

Bill

Thank you...THANK YOU...THANK YOU!!! :D :up:

[Dutchman 51]

After adding NSM via JSGME, I did a practice training scenario from SH4 using the deck gun. For reasons I cannot explain, the reload time using NSM was timed at 60 seconds. When I removed NSM, the deck gun reload was 4 seconds. I verified this twice, and each time NSM increased the deck gun reload time. Any explantion on what is occuring here. Keep in mind I did not try to use the deck gun in career or single mission, only the training scenario. Thoughts??

[Master]

Did you check the position of the crew and their skill ranks? With just the information given it isnt possible to really know what is going on. There ae a few extra variable that need to be added.

My guess is that the mod edits the way the subs manage crew for the purpose of damage control. This may affect the deck gun reload times. Just double check the crew rosters the next time you test it and see what exactly is going on.

[Digital_Trucker]

The reload times specified in the .sim files for this mod show 15 second reload times for the 3/50 and 4/50. I don't believe that this mod changes any specifications for where the crew is posted. If you go to Battle Stations and you have a good crewman on your deck gun with you, you should see the 15 second reload times (approximately).

Whether you have a crewman with you manning the gun and how good that crewman is will have an effect on your reload times.

[Dutchman 51]

I will check my reload times again, this time making sure I am using the same individuals so as not to throw another variable into the mix. I actually timed in seconds the reload time for the training scenario, and it was 60 seconds. I had time to use the head, get a drink, some chips, and then sit back down in time for the next shot.

[swdw]

Dutchman, you're only the second person i've heard that gets a weird side effect on reload times when installing mods. For some reason, on my rig, the reload time is multiplied by 4 after installing mods. I've been unable to chase down the reason for this.

You may need to change the reload times to 4 and if the 4x multiplier still happens, you'll have a reload time of ~16 sec.

[Master]

Has anyone heard from wernersobe yet? I am going crazy waiting for this.

[LukeFF]

Has anyone heard from wernersobe yet? I am going crazy waiting for this.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=758375&postcount=506 ...

[thegroo]

I just wanted to say ,thank you for this great mod.
I love the way the ships sink now.

Regards
Dieter

[WernerSobe]

NSM4 has been released.

The keel damage is explained in included support pdf.

good hunting!

[Torps]

NSM4 has been released.

The keel damage is explained in included support pdf.

good hunting!

Thany you sir!. I been looking forward to this:up:

[Hypospray]

many thanks

[Wilcke]

Werner,

You did it again!:up:

:sunny:

[Xanatos]

So, anyone's working on the zones for ROW? :D

And can you tell me in what order I have to install the following mods:
ROW + AddOn
NSM
RSRD
Historically accurate 4-Bladed propellers for all Subs

[Digital_Trucker]

So, anyone's working on the zones for ROW? :D


Yes. I read that billko is working on this.

[Digital_Trucker]

Thanks, Werner:up: Looking forward to breaking a few in half:arrgh!:

[WernerSobe]

So, anyone's working on the zones for ROW? :D

And can you tell me in what order I have to install the following mods:
ROW + AddOn
NSM
RSRD


read the support pdf :-)

NSM4 is compatible with ROW.

[Seadogs]

NSM4 has been released.

The keel damage is explained in included support pdf.

good hunting!

lol it was bound to happen just after starting a new patrol.:yep:

Looking forward to it...actually I may just scrap the patrol.;)

Edit: btw, great job on the documentation Werner!

[Hypospray]

Hmm, Im confused now ;)

The ROW Thread says that "ROW Special Effects with stock zones vs_5b" is NOT compatible with NSM.
Werner says it is - so what ? ;)

[Seadogs]

Hmm, Im confused now ;)

The ROW Thread says that "ROW Special Effects with stock zones vs_5b" is NOT compatible with NSM.
Werner says it is - so what ? ;)

Welcome to the forum. This release of NSM is much newer, like an hour ago newer.;)

Another EDIT: Just gave it a test run Hypo and special effects seemed fine. Such luck, running into a lone Takao heavy cruiser off the coast of Hokaido. She took my entire salvo of six on an even spread across her starboard side. Limped away a bit, then capsized. Great stuff. I know thats nothing new to NSM but it's been so long sice I used it it's new again, can't believe I stoped.

Next up: keelshot!

[Xanatos]

What does NSM change in "NML_Okinoshima.sim"?

http://s2.directupload.net/images/080129/5hfwl26t.jpg

[WernerSobe]

What does NSM change in "NML_Okinoshima.sim"?

ship mass increased. Prevents the ship from flying away.

[WernerSobe]

Hmm, Im confused now ;)

The ROW Thread says that "ROW Special Effects with stock zones vs_5b" is NOT compatible with NSM.
Werner says it is - so what ? ;)

well row special effects adds extra fires and smoke effects. NSM4 has its own effects. So it is not realy compatible but you will have the same effects anyway. so basicly you can replace the row special effects with nsm4.

[tedhealy]

Thank you for the mod :rock:

Great pdf explaining everything too :rock: :rock:

[Will-Rommel]

You did well on the PDF!

I'm starting a new mission with NSM4 right away, good job! :cool:

[billko]

Hmm, Im confused now ;)

The ROW Thread says that "ROW Special Effects with stock zones vs_5b" is NOT compatible with NSM.
Werner says it is - so what ? ;)

well row special effects adds extra fires and smoke effects. NSM4 has its own effects. So it is not realy compatible but you will have the same effects anyway. so basicly you can replace the row special effects with nsm4.

Interesting. If NSM4 has its own effects, I'd like to check them out first before I go changing things around. I mean, why mess with a good thing? I'll just let people play with NSM4 and then post in the ROW thread if they would like me to add ROW effects to NSM4 or not.

Bill

[Hypospray]

Just gave it a test run Hypo and special effects seemed fine.

Thanks for testing mate. Just got home agin from work and will make a test run also.

[Hypospray]

well row special effects adds extra fires and smoke effects. NSM4 has its own effects. So it is not realy compatible but you will have the same effects anyway. so basicly you can replace the row special effects with nsm4.

Thanks for for clarifying this Werner. Im really looking forward to test the new keel damage this night.

:up: for your effort and great work.

[tedhealy]

Didn't get a screenie of it, but yeah NSM4 definitely has some effects (I'm no ROW expert so I can't really compare the two). I hit a large tanker in the stern, about 8 minutes later as the stern was slowly sinking, the whole thing exploded with a huge fireball and broke in 2. I got the sunk message then, but half of the wreck burned as it slowly sank for another 10 to 15 minutes.

[Doolittle81]

Werner,
Ausgezeichnet Hervorragende Arbeit!!

This is the best MOD of all...along with ROW. The NSM MOD makes this an entirely different SubSim from the original out-of-the-box SH4. It's similar to the FlightSim evolution from "Hit Bubbles" surrounding an aircraft to actual sophisticated and detailed damage modelling. Quite a thrill breaking the back of a ship when you get torp depth correct and at the appropriate spot along the keel to cause that effect......

Well Done, Werner.

[baxter]

Thank you Werner for NSM 4.0:up:

[CaptainHaplo]

Werner, Great job on 4.0! I just took out a large Euro composite with one torp, it broke her back very well. I reloaded and took a couple of other keel shots - and whenever I got a good magnetic hit, it did LOTS of damage - enough to either do enough to destroy the keel, or really put enough of a hole in her to sink her. Fore and aft shots now are really a great thing. Wonderful work mate!

[ecfchamps]

Werner you have went above and beyond the call of duty with NSM 4.0. I can tell an amazing difference since installing this mod. I sank a Large Modern Composite with torp settings at 24 ft and magnetic detonator. The fish ran slightly deep and exploded beautifully underneath the keel. In about 10 minutes the ship had taken all the flooding it could handle and the bow went down into the water. I just tried with the contact detonator set at 12 ft for a Medium Old Composite. The first torp hit and the second was a dud. The ship started evading me so I was trying to get set for another firing solution and then the ship started sinking. I went to external camera to look at the torp hit and the hole was directly on the underside of the keel. I must say well done to you sir!

[Zero Niner]

Thank you for your work.

[WernerSobe]

thank you, glad that you like it ;-)

[WhiskeyBravo]

I don't like it Werner.



I LOVE it! :up:

One question though: Did you alter the probability of duds appearing? I just ran your old single mission practice and I usually get a dud or 2 but so far I've not experienced any duds with v4. Any clues?

WB.

[WernerSobe]

I don't like it Werner.



I LOVE it! :up:

One question though: Did you alter the probability of duds appearing? I just ran your old single mission practice and I usually get a dud or 2 but so far I've not experienced any duds with v4. Any clues?

WB.

dud chance is the same as in 3.3. Only depth keeping malfunction is higher. That depends on date though.

[WhiskeyBravo]

Thanks Werner,

That explains things. And perhaps I've just had a lucky run.

WB.

[399nkov]

Many thanks Werner :D

I have to cut my current patrol short so I can get back into port for a refit of NSM 4.0. :up:

[Fincuan]

Good job Werner :up:

Me and NSM4 had a great start together: After enabling NSM4 I fired up the sub school torpedo training mission to get a quick look at the changes. I fired all four forward fish at the Mogami and started counting the hits: boom .... boom ... boom ... BOOOOOMMM! "We're taking damage!" etc. Not hard to guess what happened, eh? For sale: A Porpoise-class sub without a bow :lol:

[fireship4]

THANKS WERNER YOU BLOODY GENIUS. PC was fixed just today aswell!

[DrBeast]

Wonderful! Now I can start playing SH4 again in earnest! Well...uh...in a couple of weeks, that is. G/f's exams are still running, the computer is still off limits! :damn:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!

(Whoever said patience is virtue was clearly not a computer games addict with no access to a computer! :p)

[Fishie]

Hey Werner- I noticed in the torp sim that you've changed the impulse to be a negative number.

Does this simulate the vaccuum effect? If not, what the reason for it?

Just curious.

-Fishie

[WernerSobe]

Hey Werner- I noticed in the torp sim that you've changed the impulse to be a negative number.

Does this simulate the vaccuum effect? If not, what the reason for it?

Just curious.

-Fishie

negative impulse lifts and pushes the target on impact. positive number pulls it down. It just looks unrealistic when ships get sucked down on impact and then slowly bob up.

[M. Sarsfield]

Does pushing the target out of the water help to break its back? Or does that parameter strictly change the visual effects?

[Linavitch]

Werner

Thank you very much for your continued work on this. It's a fantastic mod.

I love the keel shots in 4.0.

[WernerSobe]

Does pushing the target out of the water help to break its back? Or does that parameter strictly change the visual effects?
no its just eye candy, you can flip it back positive if you like it does not effect the damage system

[M. Sarsfield]

I like the way that you made it. No need to change a thing. :up:

[Fishie]

no its just eye candy, you can flip it back positive if you like it does not effect the damage system

So if I wanted to increase the damage of a torpedo (i.e. rip a HUGE hole in the side of a ship), what stats would I change?

[WernerSobe]

no its just eye candy, you can flip it back positive if you like it does not effect the damage system
So if I wanted to increase the damage of a torpedo (i.e. rip a HUGE hole in the side of a ship), what stats would I change?

depends. Do you want just a larger hole or actualy more flooding?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Congrats on the new version WS, will be trying it out soon :yep:


RDP

[Fishie]

depends. Do you want just a larger hole or actualy more flooding?

Both, actually :yep:

I see the "boxes" in the ship- I assume these are flood containers. If I rip a hole big enough, shouldn't 2 fill up instead of just one?

Thanks for even responding, dude. I'm just incredibly curious as to how this all works.
It's my nature to try to know everything about something I'm doing- much to the dismay of my wife :lol: :damn:

[LukeFF]

depends. Do you want just a larger hole or actualy more flooding?

I'm very curious about this as well, but it's hard to tell which torpedo is which in the ZON file.

[WernerSobe]

depends. Do you want just a larger hole or actualy more flooding?
Both, actually :yep:

I see the "boxes" in the ship- I assume these are flood containers. If I rip a hole big enough, shouldn't 2 fill up instead of just one?

Thanks for even responding, dude. I'm just incredibly curious as to how this all works.
It's my nature to try to know everything about something I'm doing- much to the dismay of my wife :lol: :damn:

Its little bit complicated.

Actualy there is no real connection between the size of the hole and the amount of compartments that are flooding. You can alter the size of the hole apart of the amount of compartments flooding and apart of how much water one compartment can take...

If you want the hole to appear bigger you must increase minEF, maxEF and ArmorPiercing. The torpedo will do more damage and make a larger hole. But this damage system is not based on hitpoints so there will be no change in sinking behavier....

If you want to hit multiple compartments simultaneously you must increase minradius and maxradius for torpedo damage effect. But be carefull youre running a risk that you could hit the keel zone when you actualy aim for the hull and the ship will brake in two even when you set the depth above its keel...

If you want each compartment to take more water you must increase floatability value for that compartment in zone.cfg. That will result in less hits needed to sink that ship because you can put more water inside with less hits.

[DrBeast]

Excellent info, Werner! :up:

I have just one small thing to add: from what I've noticed, the holes won't appear unless the Armor piercing value exceed's the target's armor rating, and this applies to any explosive device (shells, bombs, torpedoes).

Oh, and in case you don't know where to look, the torpedo data Werner mentioned are in the Torpedoes_US.zon file.

[Fishie]

Its little bit complicated. ..


Thanks, dude. You're the man :up: :rock:

If we ever meet, first round is on me. :yep:

[Wilcke]

Hey guys,

I finally loaded up NSM 4.0 last night and ran it in the NSM Single Mission. I shot about 6 torpedoes and did not have any duds. Was I just lucky? I had to call it quits early last night so I did not get to shoot 100 torps like I usually do when testing things out.

[Fishie]

Hey guys,

I finally loaded up NSM 4.0 last night and ran it in the NSM Single Mission. I shot about 6 torpedoes and did not have any duds. Was I just lucky? I had to call it quits early last night so I did not get to shoot 100 torps like I usually do when testing things out.

Several things dictate the duds- the biggest of which is the angle of impact. Since you were impacting the vessel at darn near a right angle, your chances of a dud are significantly less then those of higher angles (for instance, an impact of over 70 degreees relative to the torpedo is almost certain to fail)

but yeah, luck plays a factor. For instance- last night I got my first "circle run" torpedo.

[Sailor Steve]

Actually, that's backwards. American Mk 14 torpedoes had a tendency to break the firing pin with a perfect 90-degree hit.
The contact exploder was crushed on impact before it could function when the strike angle was near perpendicular. The casing was flimsy and the parts not substantial enough to withstand the punch. The fast Mk 14 torpedo had a higher inertial impact that caused the firing pin to miss the exploder gap. In a typical MOT, aft, fwd spread the MOT shot was least likely to explode.
http://www.submarineresearch.com/bull29.html

[Galanti]

How would those of you who have played w/ the mod rate torpedo reliability so far in NSM?

I was under the impression the mag exploder rarely, if ever, worked at all, simply beause the Erath's magentic influence in the PTO was considerable different than in Newport, where it was designed, and this was never taken into account.

[Schultzy]

I don't know if it was just bad luck on my part or not, but I put a total of 7 torps into an Ashasi (sp??) Destroyer and though it was sitting low in the water and burning, after 3 days of game time, it still had not sunk and was still returning fire. :hmm:

I am using RFB and I know as per the amazing PDF it doesn't support it so was just wondering if this was an RFB side effect, or just bad luck?

[Wilcke]

How would those of you who have played w/ the mod rate torpedo reliability so far in NSM?

I was under the impression the mag exploder rarely, if ever, worked at all, simply beause the Erath's magentic influence in the PTO was considerable different than in Newport, where it was designed, and this was never taken into account.

Yes, I shot 6 mag influence for 100% hits. I failed to note that in my earlier post. None of them should have gone off.....! Anyway, I am going to shoot about 100 mag torps tonight and see what happens with NSM. Then I will do the contact torp thing.

[Wilcke]

Actually, that's backwards. American Mk 14 torpedoes had a tendency to break the firing pin with a perfect 90-degree hit.
The contact exploder was crushed on impact before it could function when the strike angle was near perpendicular. The casing was flimsy and the parts not substantial enough to withstand the punch. The fast Mk 14 torpedo had a higher inertial impact that caused the firing pin to miss the exploder gap. In a typical MOT, aft, fwd spread the MOT shot was least likely to explode.
http://www.submarineresearch.com/bull29.html

Thank you for jumping in here on that one Steve! Yes, in Silent Victory there is a great story about how one of the sub skippers did tests on this problem; just when they had gotten the mag influence thing worked out. They were still getting huge torpedo failure rates...turned it was this exactly.

[LukeFF]

Oh, and in case you don't know where to look, the torpedo data Werner mentioned are in the Torpedoes_US.zon file.

But, which one covers the Mark 14?

[SteveHump]

I have just experienced the great sinking mechanics you created when I hit a T-escort carrier in the middle of a task force with 3 torps into the bow and 2 into the midship area. In the stock version or TM even, the ac would have almost collapsed in front of my eyes, but with your mod, it took over an hour and was it ever spectacular. The airplanes remained anchored to the deck as the stern came up like the Titanic, but that's not something I think anyone can do anyting about.

Again, thanks, danke, thanks.:)

[Galanti]

I'm a huge fan of NSM, consider it an absolute essential mod, but IMHO in this version the torps are too reliable and overpowered.

Last night, I fired 10 Mk-14s (Jan 1942) at high-speed, contact-fuzed, depth set to 6 feet at three targets. Two missed, but the eight all hit at nearly 90 degrees and detonated. All three target were the Nagara Maru and broke in half after the first impact. As well, all destuctible elements on the ships (masts, crates, deck guns, everything!) were blown off. Finally, a small freighter within an estimated 400 yards of the last Nagara also exploded and sank instantly after the Nagara was hit!

Please consider this a helpful observation, like I said I love what you've done for SH4 with NSM. I can adjust the torpedo_zon file myself, I'm just wondering if anyone else has similar observations.

[WernerSobe]

I'm a huge fan of NSM, consider it an absolute essential mod, but IMHO in this version the torps are too reliable and overpowered.

Last night, I fired 10 Mk-14s (Jan 1942) at high-speed, contact-fuzed, depth set to 6 feet at three targets. Two missed, but the eight all hit at nearly 90 degrees and detonated. All three target were the Nagara Maru and broke in half after the first impact. As well, all destuctible elements on the ships (masts, crates, deck guns, everything!) were blown off. Finally, a small freighter within an estimated 400 yards of the last Nagara also exploded and sank instantly after the Nagara was hit!

Please consider this a helpful observation, like I said I love what you've done for SH4 with NSM. I can adjust the torpedo_zon file myself, I'm just wondering if anyone else has similar observations.

this shouldnt happen to normal merchants.

obviously your target were loaded with ammonitions.

[Wilcke]

Hi Werner,

So far I have shot 50 mag influence torps with no failures.

Have shot about 25 torps set to impact, only 1 dud.

The damage is just awesome and the sinking mechanics are spot on.

Some pics of Taihosan Maru, the magnetic blew her back and flipped the aft end of the hull up and over.

Good work Werner!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e294/tascaso/SH4Img2008-02-02_162836_671.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e294/tascaso/SH4Img2008-02-02_162942_031.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e294/tascaso/SH4Img2008-02-02_163054_921.jpg

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Hi Werner,

So far I have shot 50 mag influence torps with no failures.

Have shot about 25 torps set to impact, only 1 dud.



Well, as far as I remember, the magnetic detonators failed all the time up until at least 1943 (plenty of prematures and duds, as well as a few circle runners) and contact torps suffered plenty of prematures, too, because the mag detonators would set them off even when disabled. They also had plenty of trouble maintaining depth up until mid '43-44 (torps ran an average of 10-15 feet deeper than they were set).

Though, admittedly, it is more fun to shoot with weapons that work, the frustration of failed torpedoes is definitely a realism factor. I know Wahoo (among countless others) experienced a good handful of torpedo failures during her patrols, including one that inadvertently launched into a closed outer door!

[WernerSobe]

Hi Werner,

So far I have shot 50 mag influence torps with no failures.

Have shot about 25 torps set to impact, only 1 dud.


Well, as far as I remember, the magnetic detonators failed all the time up until at least 1943 (plenty of prematures and duds, as well as a few circle runners) and contact torps suffered plenty of prematures, too, because the mag detonators would set them off even when disabled. They also had plenty of trouble maintaining depth up until mid '43-44 (torps ran an average of 10-15 feet deeper than they were set).

Though, admittedly, it is more fun to shoot with weapons that work, the frustration of failed torpedoes is definitely a realism factor. I know Wahoo (among countless others) experienced a good handful of torpedo failures during her patrols, including one that inadvertently launched into a closed outer door!

well from the game design view magnetic exploders cannot fail. There is no dud chance for them. There is however torpedo depth keeping problem. The chance to have a deep runner is at 70% and it can vary between 0.5 and 3 meters (9feet). Thats quite a lot and i have exprienced that over half of my influence torpedoes passed underneath the target in test campaign. Once i fired all 6 tubes and all were deep runners.

but anyway if you think its still to strong we can increase the depth keeping failure range.

[Wilcke]

Hi Werner,

So far I have shot 50 mag influence torps with no failures.

Have shot about 25 torps set to impact, only 1 dud.


Well, as far as I remember, the magnetic detonators failed all the time up until at least 1943 (plenty of prematures and duds, as well as a few circle runners) and contact torps suffered plenty of prematures, too, because the mag detonators would set them off even when disabled. They also had plenty of trouble maintaining depth up until mid '43-44 (torps ran an average of 10-15 feet deeper than they were set).

Though, admittedly, it is more fun to shoot with weapons that work, the frustration of failed torpedoes is definitely a realism factor. I know Wahoo (among countless others) experienced a good handful of torpedo failures during her patrols, including one that inadvertently launched into a closed outer door!

well from the game design view magnetic exploders cannot fail. There is no dud chance for them. There is however torpedo depth keeping problem. The chance to have a deep runner is at 70% and it can vary between 0.5 and 3 meters (9feet). Thats quite a lot and i have exprienced that over half of my influence torpedoes passed underneath the target in test campaign. Once i fired all 6 tubes and all were deep runners.

but anyway if you think its still to strong we can increase the depth keeping failure range.

Werner,

Don't change anything yet. I am testing in the single mission setup. Going to try a career next and see what happens.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Yes, I agree. I still haven't tested the latest improvements myself and those specs seem more than adequate. The only thing I've noticed is I've had 2/2 magnetic detonator successes in 1944 (both against a gunboat that strangely refused to sink after 2 torps) and I've had plenty of contact successes (all set fairly shallow to be safe) but I can't remember the last time I've had a premature detonation.

[Dogster]

If a person wants prematures and duds, play the NSM 3.3 Hardcore Torpedo Mod. On my last patrol:

10 Prematures
7 Duds
7 Hits

Total tonnage for patrol:
1845 Tons

They want to relieve me at Pearl, they offered me a Training Command at Sub School. One more bad patrol and I'm relieved.

It is estimated that approx 70% of the Mk 14's fired were defective (prema's, duds...) until this was finally corrected in 9/43.

[castorp345]

play the NSM 3.3 Hardcore Torpedo Mod


:up:

i'm using 3.3's harcore torpedo mod in my current campaign on top of the nsm 4.0 package with no troubles (and thank goodness i'm tooling around in a sugar boat with mk.x's)...

'just remember to flush your rich saved games folder before installing!

cheers
hc

[DrBeast]

Hey Werner, I need your technical knowledge on something.
I'm attempting to make NSM4 ROW-compatible, and it looked like a pretty simple thing to do. Here's a breakdown of what I did with a side-by-side comparison of the two zones.cfg files with Winmerge:

1.) All effects from ROW copied over to NSM. If any NSM effects are present where there are no ROW effects, they stay.
2.) Cargo types in NSM replaced with ROW; I also added some extra cargo types present in ROW, and some Weapons compartments, floatability adapted to NSM with a ball-park estimation
3.) Crush depths copied over from ROW ONLY IF effects copied over as well.

Using this file, I stumbled upon a pretty nasty side-effect yesterday night when I was playing my campaign: I discovered that, if my sub is too close to a merchant and its keel gets blown off, my sub literally disintegrates! All of a sudden I start getting damage everywhere, and after a bit the game CTDs. I know it's right after the keel exploding, because I'm using some torpedoes that pack a pretty punch (all values in your torpedoes_US.zon file x2, essentially, just something I'm testing out), and though the fish hits at the bow or stern, it sets off a chain reaction that literally blows the enemy ship to smithereens...which is all fine and dandy, but if I'm closer than approximately 1000-1500 meters my sub bites the dust as well!

Do you have any idea what could be causing this? The ship's cargo, perhaps? Another member posted something similar a few posts up, and you attributed it to the enemy ship carrying ammunition. Anything that can be done about this?

ETA: I know I should have done more tests to pinpoint if it's something in NSM's zones file, my Frankenstein's monster, or my torpedo settings that cause this, but I quit the game at 6:20 in the morning, falling half asleep on the keyboard while sailing home, so further tests were plain impossible! BTW, whatever happened to your test mission? It would've been quite useful in this occasion.

[Doolittle81]

Hey Werner, I need your technical knowledge on something.
I'm attempting to make NSM4 ROW-compatible, and it looked like a pretty simple thing to do. ....

I'm a bit curious:
In Post #540 in this thread, Werner said
...ROW special effects adds extra fires and smoke effects. NSM4 has its own effects. So it is not realy compatible but you will have the same effects anyway. so basicly you can replace the ROW special effects with nsm4.

This would seem to mean that one should enable all the ROW Mods excluding the ROW Special Effects MOD, then enable the NSM4 Mod, and everything will work just fine...the only thing will be that Werner's Special FX will be seen/experienced instead of ROW's, but all of the FX will be the same as if ROW Special FX had been enabled...

Whereas, the Dr Beast Mod of NSM will somehow mix and match Special FX to proved something better??? :-?

[DrBeast]

@Doolittle: For starters, there's more to ROW Effects than a modified zones.cfg file. What you could do is enable ROW Effects, then NSM. This will retain some ROW effects (generic modifications to explosions, smoke, etc), but you'll have the effects pertaining to the ships of the NSM mod. These are fewer than what ROW offers. My advice is, try it out as-is first (that is, enable ROW Effects first, then NSM4). What I'm trying to accomplish is combine ALL the effects of ROW with the sinking mechanism of NSM. Although I must say that if I get any satisfactory results, I'll ship the file over to billko for final evaluation and release; he offered to do it first, after all.

[Digital_Trucker]

I have been using NSM 4 with ROW, but only using the Materials.dat and particles.dat from the ROW special effects and have not had any problems. While this does not add in the "extra" special effects (additional explosions, catastrophic explosions, etc.) from ROW, it does provide the better smoke and fire from ROW. I, also, looked into trying to make ROW special effects NSM compatible, but another three of my remaining four brain cells couldn't handle the strain, so I quit looking at it for a while.

I either need to type or read faster:rotfl: . What I mentioned above would be the same result as DrBeast's approach.

[DrBeast]

I have been using NSM 4 with ROW, but only using the Materials.dat and particles.dat from the ROW special effects and have not had any problems. While this does not add in the "extra" special effects (additional explosions, catastrophic explosions, etc.) from ROW, it does provide the better smoke and fire from ROW. I, also, looked into trying to make ROW special effects NSM compatible, but another three of my remaining four brain cells couldn't handle the strain, so I quit looking at it for a while.

I either need to type or read faster:rotfl: . What I mentioned above would be the same result as DrBeast's approach.

You, my friend, are in dire need of a true Irish masterpiece...here, have a Guinness! :()1:Also, you described what I tried to describe in a much clearer way than me :up:

[Galanti]

Would someone mind PM'ing me the NSM 3.3 Harcore Torpedo mod? The Filefront link in the official thread isn't working.

[Digital_Trucker]

You, my friend, are in dire need of a true Irish masterpiece...here, have a Guinness! :()1:Also, you described what I tried to describe in a much clearer way than me :up:

Actually, I left out a couple of items that I'm also using, those being the textures for the fire and oil spills and the sounds. I've got a very hybrid ROW setup that combines the files from the individual parts and I forgot (:oops: ) that I had put the other parts mentioned into it. Thanks for the Guinness, by the way, between it and my regular medication, I should get a good nap before the "Game formerly known as the Super Bowl before the NFL made it illegal to say Super Bowl without paying them":rotfl:

Would someone mind PM'ing me the NSM 3.3 Harcore Torpedo mod? The Filefront link in the official thread isn't working.

Being the packrat that I am, I'm sure I've got it here in my downloads, I'll up it to filefront and put a link up in a sec (or two).

Edit : You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here (http://dodownload.filefront.com/9564826//8499d97a5820bffdcd0986c24a95a094b673b4ae8f86c5dbc0 5b9316b046479819e7645e1d553810)

[Galanti]

Great thanks!

[castorp345]

You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here (http://dodownload.filefront.com/9564826//8499d97a5820bffdcd0986c24a95a094b673b4ae8f86c5dbc0 5b9316b046479819e7645e1d553810)


out of curiosity: was there some reason why the link was pulled in the first place? were/are there any compatibility concerns with 4.0? i haven't experienced anything unusual yet, but then again i've pretty much just been mucking about in my sugar boat campaign...

:ping:

[DrBeast]

You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here (http://dodownload.filefront.com/9564826//8499d97a5820bffdcd0986c24a95a094b673b4ae8f86c5dbc0 5b9316b046479819e7645e1d553810)


out of curiosity: was there some reason why the link was pulled in the first place? were/are there any compatibility concerns with 4.0? i haven't experienced anything unusual yet, but then again i've pretty much just been mucking about in my sugar boat campaign...

:ping:

Dunno about compatibility issues, but the files being pulled is a generic Filefront caveat. You'll have to reupload every once in a while.

[DrBeast]

Oh, and in case you don't know where to look, the torpedo data Werner mentioned are in the Torpedoes_US.zon file.
But, which one covers the Mark 14?

Sorry mate, just noticed this. If you compare the parent IDs in the .sim and .zon files, you'll figure out which one is which, and in the .sim file the type is actually displayed. From what I've gleaned, the order in .zon is: Mk27, Mk10, Mk18, Mk16, Mk23, Mk14. Damn, that's quite mixed up!

[WernerSobe]

You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here (http://dodownload.filefront.com/9564826//8499d97a5820bffdcd0986c24a95a094b673b4ae8f86c5dbc0 5b9316b046479819e7645e1d553810)


out of curiosity: was there some reason why the link was pulled in the first place? were/are there any compatibility concerns with 4.0? i haven't experienced anything unusual yet, but then again i've pretty much just been mucking about in my sugar boat campaign...

:ping:

yes. The old torpedo mod is not compatible with nsm 4. It will run but it may cause unwanted keel damage.

[Galanti]

You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here (http://dodownload.filefront.com/9564826//8499d97a5820bffdcd0986c24a95a094b673b4ae8f86c5dbc0 5b9316b046479819e7645e1d553810)


out of curiosity: was there some reason why the link was pulled in the first place? were/are there any compatibility concerns with 4.0? i haven't experienced anything unusual yet, but then again i've pretty much just been mucking about in my sugar boat campaign...

:ping:

yes. The old torpedo mod is not compatible with nsm 4. It will run but it may cause unwanted keel damage.

How so, doesn't it just change reliability and set the various pistol paramaters?

[WernerSobe]

How so, doesn't it just change reliability and set the various pistol paramaters?
mh actualy yes i misunderstood. Torpedoes_US.sim which defines reliability if fully compatible. Torpedoes_US.zon is different because the new keel damage required a smaller explosion radius. Using old torpedoes_us.zon with larger damage radius may damage the keel zone on hull impact.

[billko]

@Doolittle: For starters, there's more to ROW Effects than a modified zones.cfg file. What you could do is enable ROW Effects, then NSM. This will retain some ROW effects (generic modifications to explosions, smoke, etc), but you'll have the effects pertaining to the ships of the NSM mod. These are fewer than what ROW offers. My advice is, try it out as-is first (that is, enable ROW Effects first, then NSM4). What I'm trying to accomplish is combine ALL the effects of ROW with the sinking mechanism of NSM. Although I must say that if I get any satisfactory results, I'll ship the file over to billko for final evaluation and release; he offered to do it first, after all.

DrBeast:

Actually, you are doing everyone here a favor. My new job has taken a lot more of my time than I thought it would. I hardly have time to even look at my computer, let alone use it. (For example, right now I have NOTHING listed on my "recently used" application list!)

Since you've started the process, why not finish it? And please take all the credit for it - you don't need to send it to me for approval! :)

Bill

[DrBeast]

@Doolittle: For starters, there's more to ROW Effects than a modified zones.cfg file. What you could do is enable ROW Effects, then NSM. This will retain some ROW effects (generic modifications to explosions, smoke, etc), but you'll have the effects pertaining to the ships of the NSM mod. These are fewer than what ROW offers. My advice is, try it out as-is first (that is, enable ROW Effects first, then NSM4). What I'm trying to accomplish is combine ALL the effects of ROW with the sinking mechanism of NSM. Although I must say that if I get any satisfactory results, I'll ship the file over to billko for final evaluation and release; he offered to do it first, after all.
DrBeast:

Actually, you are doing everyone here a favor. My new job has taken a lot more of my time than I thought it would. I hardly have time to even look at my computer, let alone use it. (For example, right now I have NOTHING listed on my "recently used" application list!)

Since you've started the process, why not finish it? And please take all the credit for it - you don't need to send it to me for approval! :)

Bill
Roger that. I'm still waiting for Werner to comment on a post I made a while back (it's been moved to the previous page). Damn thing is still eluding me...kept me up till 4:00! I'm at work bleary-eyed, chugging my huge mug of coffee, and not even Pantera on (almost) full blast can wake me up! :damn:

ETA: This is what I need help with (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=767394&postcount=592)

[DrBeast]

A small update/progress report:
I stripped the merged file of any ROW cargo types and copied over only the effect types. I still got blasted out of the water when too close to the exploding ship, when I noticed this little part:


;************************************************* ******
;NEW SMALL MERCHANT
;************************************************* ******
[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo <---------


I noticed that only this Keel category was "loaded" with Ammo, all the others had CargoType=None, so I changed it to None as well...
Good news: my ship no longer got blown to pieces
Bad news: keel explosion effect was gone. No breaking up in half, nothing! I shot a merchant packed with ammo at 400 meters, the ship became a crescendo of fireworks, but the hull was intact, apart from the hole my torpedo had punched! :damn:

*le sigh*

Back to the drawing board...

[Galanti]

A small update/progress report:
I stripped the merged file of any ROW cargo types and copied over only the effect types. I still got blasted out of the water when too close to the exploding ship, when I noticed this little part:


;************************************************* ******
;NEW SMALL MERCHANT
;************************************************* ******
[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo <---------


I noticed that only this Keel category was "loaded" with Ammo, all the others had CargoType=None, so I changed it to None as well...
Good news: my ship no longer got blown to pieces
Bad news: keel explosion effect was gone. No breaking up in half, nothing! I shot a merchant packed with ammo at 400 meters, the ship became a crescendo of fireworks, but the hull was intact, apart from the hole my torpedo had punched! :damn:

*le sigh*

Back to the drawing board...

Hmmm, that exploding keel business could be the reason I sank two merchies with one shot the other night. I'll try changing it too.

[Wilcke]

So your conclusion= that ammo is what is exploding in the new keel compartment that Werner created.

Torpedo reliability, is everyone happy with this? I think I am going to pull the Torpedoes_US.sim file from NSM and allow TM's to set the reliablity...but then what am I messing up in NSM...back to testing tonight!:damn:

Oh, I never asked, will there be any difference in this from Single Mission testing to a career....what is the interaction if any?:88)

[WernerSobe]

A small update/progress report:
I stripped the merged file of any ROW cargo types and copied over only the effect types. I still got blasted out of the water when too close to the exploding ship, when I noticed this little part:


;************************************************* ******
;NEW SMALL MERCHANT
;************************************************* ******
[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo <---------

I noticed that only this Keel category was "loaded" with Ammo, all the others had CargoType=None, so I changed it to None as well...
Good news: my ship no longer got blown to pieces
Bad news: keel explosion effect was gone. No breaking up in half, nothing! I shot a merchant packed with ammo at 400 meters, the ship became a crescendo of fireworks, but the hull was intact, apart from the hole my torpedo had punched! :damn:

*le sigh*

Back to the drawing board...


This is not an error. NSKeel CargoType must be set on Ammo.

Ill try to explain the secret behind the keel damage.

There is only one way to break the ship in two. There must be a zone filled with fuel or ammo, it must be big enough and it must be connected with compartments that go through the breaking point (which is hardcoded).

this is how i made the keel damage.

NSKeel zone is no longer Keel for small merchants. It is used for all ships and it is now 15 feet underneath of every ship. It can only be hit when the torpedo explodes 10-15 feet under the ship. It cannot be hit when the torpedo hits the hull. There is also a link zone which connects the NSKeel and the breaking point which is called NSLice.

So Basicly NSKeel is no longer a keel, it is a bomb underneath of every ship and it must be filled with ammo otherwise keel damage wont work...

Now about cargo types. There are 4 different possibilies. None, Fuel, Ammo and Custom. Default is Custom. Custom means it can be Tanks, Trucks, Crates whatever is set in mission editor as inside cargo... Ammo and None is force set the according cargo type regardles of inside cargo set in mission editor.

A custom cargo zone can be filled with fuel and ammo in mission editor. Meaning that every custom zone in that ship will become a bomb. A ship loaded with ammo will explode on hull impact and break in two because every zone is explosive and will touch the breaking point. Result: Ships that are loaded with ammo or fuel will always break - even on hull impact.

Ships that carry crates or anything not explosive as their custom cargo. Will never break on hull impact because the torpedo explosion range cannot reach the explosive Keel zone which is 15 feet below registered draft.

Now why it could happen anyway:

1. either you have been shooting at ships loaded with explosive. those will always break on hull impact.

2. you may have been shooting at unsupported ships (RFB?) they use the NSKeel
zone in another way.

3. You have a conflict with another mod that touches the torpedo files. check torpedoes_US.zon - AmmoDamageInfo 6, Properties 7,
MinRadius = 2
MaxRadius= 2,5

4. You have a conflict with another mod that touches ship.zon files and uses NSKeel zone in another way.

hope that helps.

[Galanti]

Thanks for the explanation Wernersobe! But what about contact shots that run too deep and hit this keel zone?

All my ships so far were sunk from one convoy,( Jan '42 in the Macassar strights, RSRD ) so it's certainly possible they were all carrying ammo. I'll run some tests tonight on ships I know have no cargo using contact pistols.

But if I find I'm still blowing up ships and surrounding ships with one fish then I think I'm going to set the keel cargo to none after all. My reason being is that everything I've read indicates the magnetic exploders rarely, if ever, functioned, in the PTO. I'm quite content to sink ships by punching big holes in them with contact fuzing, and if I lose the ability to break them in half with one hit, oh well.

[WernerSobe]

Thanks for the explanation Wernersobe! But what about contact shots that run too deep and hit this keel zone?

All my ships so far were sunk from one convoy,( Jan '42 in the Macassar strights, RSRD ) so it's certainly possible they were all carrying ammo. I'll run some tests tonight on ships I know have no cargo using contact pistols.

But if I find I'm still blowing up ships and surrounding ships with one fish then I think I'm going to set the keel cargo to none after all. My reason being is that everything I've read indicates the magnetic exploders rarely, if ever, functioned, in the PTO. I'm quite content to sink ships by punching big holes in them with contact fuzing, and if I lose the ability to break them in half with one hit, oh well.

Well if they run too deep they will not explode. The ammo zone is not "inside" the ship its outside and its a "ghostzone" it will not trigger a contact detonator. The ammo zone starts 15 feet below the "real" 3dModel and extends to about 30 feet.

Anyway. Let me know the results of your tests. Seems like its only you who have that problem. When running your tests, please deactivate duds (this will also make sure torpedoes run at correct depth) and if it happens again send me the mission where it happens so i can check if it is realy a local problem or a bug.

[Wilcke]

Werner,

1. More questions, should we be seeing "deep runners" with the current Torpedoes_US.sim? Currently I am shooting 100%; no deep runners.

2. If I pull the file out of NSM 4.0 and just let TM 1.7.6 Torpedoes_US.sim do its thing will I break NSM 4.0.

Other than the above observation, I really like NSM 4.0.

[WernerSobe]

Werner,

1. More questions, should we be seeing "deep runners" with the current Torpedoes_US.sim? Currently I am shooting 100%; no deep runners.

2. If I pull the file out of NSM 4.0 and just let TM 1.7.6 Torpedoes_US.sim do its thing will I break NSM 4.0.

Other than the above observation, I really like NSM 4.0.

1. Yes there are plenty of deep runners. Just set the depth to 5 and fire all 6 tubes in a short time. Then use external camera to see the effect. But im thinking of increasing the failure range. It is now 1,5-3,5 meters at 70% chance.

2. no, the sim file may be changed, NSM damage system will not suffer. Sim file describes only reliability but anyway nsm4 sim file is less reliable then tm one.

[DrBeast]

Thanks for the explanation, Werner. I've cracked this at last! NSM4 is now 100% ROW-compatible! I'll post in the ROW thread with a link to the files I'll upload shortly.

Turns out the culprit was in the very last lines of the zones.cfg file:

CargoExplosionRange=5.0;

was set to 25 in the ROW .cfg. When I changed it back to 5, everything went perfect. Ammo is back in the NSKeel, cargo is imported from ROW, as well as all the special effects and Crush Depth for compartments that have had cargo type and/or special effects added. It bloody works! :D

With your permission, Werner, I'd like to add my mod to the ROW collection. With regards to NSM, it's only the zones.cfg involved, which means that NSM will have to be loaded FIRST, and THEN ROW Special Effects For NSM Classic/Light. I'm pointing this out in the readme, in a very clear and concise way.

[DrBeast]

But if I find I'm still blowing up ships and surrounding ships with one fish then I think I'm going to set the keel cargo to none after all.

When I was doing my tests for merging NSM and ROW Effects, I used a variety of ships with various loadouts. One of the formations I used was 4 merchant ships in a T-shape, with the centermost being loaded with ammunition, and the surrounding ships barely 300 meters away from each other. In my initial (failing) tests, I had but to hit one ship, and a chain reaction would initiate, wiping out all four of them (including my sub, if I was too close!). In my final, working rendition, I'd hit the ammo-laden merch, it would get engulfed in a huge explosion, break in half, and sink, leaving all the other ships intact. NSKeel as per Werner's setup. If this worked for me, I don't see why it wouldn't work for everyone! :D

[WernerSobe]

Thanks for the explanation, Werner. I've cracked this at last! NSM4 is now 100% ROW-compatible! I'll post in the ROW thread with a link to the files I'll upload shortly.

Turns out the culprit was in the very last lines of the zones.cfg file:

CargoExplosionRange=5.0;

was set to 25 in the ROW .cfg. When I changed it back to 5, everything went perfect. Ammo is back in the NSKeel, cargo is imported from ROW, as well as all the special effects and Crush Depth for compartments that have had cargo type and/or special effects added. It bloody works! :D

With your permission, Werner, I'd like to add my mod to the ROW collection. With regards to NSM, it's only the zones.cfg involved, which means that NSM will have to be loaded FIRST, and THEN ROW Special Effects For NSM Classic/Light. I'm pointing this out in the readme, in a very clear and concise way.
This is also not an error.

Default value was 25 for stock game so ROW hasnt actualy changed it.

Ive set it to 5.0 because the new keel zone is very large. Such a big zone full with ammo creates a very large damage bubble so that zone damages much more then it is supposed to do. You may damage other ships nearby and even your own sub.

And you have my permition for using NSM zones.cfg for ROW. But bear in mind that there are much more effect zones in ship.zon files like fires, smoke and oil leaks. Adding more effects to zones.cfg may show to many effects.

[DrBeast]

Thanks for the explanation, Werner. I've cracked this at last! NSM4 is now 100% ROW-compatible! I'll post in the ROW thread with a link to the files I'll upload shortly.

Turns out the culprit was in the very last lines of the zones.cfg file:

CargoExplosionRange=5.0;

was set to 25 in the ROW .cfg. When I changed it back to 5, everything went perfect. Ammo is back in the NSKeel, cargo is imported from ROW, as well as all the special effects and Crush Depth for compartments that have had cargo type and/or special effects added. It bloody works! :D

With your permission, Werner, I'd like to add my mod to the ROW collection. With regards to NSM, it's only the zones.cfg involved, which means that NSM will have to be loaded FIRST, and THEN ROW Special Effects For NSM Classic/Light. I'm pointing this out in the readme, in a very clear and concise way.
This is also not an error.

Default value was 25 for stock game so ROW hasnt actualy changed it.

Ive set it to 5.0 because the new keel zone is very large. Such a big zone full with ammo creates a very large damage bubble so that zone damages much more then it is supposed to do. You may damage other ships nearby and even your own sub.

And you have my permition for using NSM zones.cfg for ROW. But bear in mind that there are much more effect zones in ship.zon files like fires, smoke and oil leaks. Adding more effects to zones.cfg may show to many effects.

Yes, not an error maybe, but with quite painful side-effects (no actual submarines or bystanding merchants were hurt during my tests) :p

Cheers for the green flag! I've tested the setup quite extensively, there is no excess of effects :up:

[fireship4]

DO NOT USE NSM 3.3 HARDCORE TORPEDO MOD WITH NSM 4.0

It seems magnetic detonators do not go off at all with the above configuration. Once I removed HTM they worked fine. I tested at least 5 times with HTM on the "torpedo attack" training mission and watched torpedo after torpedo pass under the keel and not go off.

A simple bug but it brings up another question - you said that the files that HTM edited cannot break NSM (or words to that effect). People as I see above are now changing those files and this may cause problems...

[WernerSobe]

DO NOT USE NSM 3.3 HARDCORE TORPEDO MOD WITH NSM 4.0

It seems magnetic detonators do not go off at all with the above configuration. Once I removed HTM they worked fine. I tested at least 5 times with HTM on the "torpedo attack" training mission and watched torpedo after torpedo pass under the keel and not go off.

A simple bug but it brings up another question - you said that the files that HTM edited cannot break NSM (or words to that effect). People as I see above are now changing those files and this may cause problems...

Yes they do not affect the damage system in direct way but they do change the torpedo behavier. The reason why your torpedoes did not work is the small magnetic influence range. The hardcore torpedo mod is using old default values which are about 3 feet or something for influence detonators. NSM requires 16 feet magnetic influence range to be able to hit the keel zone.

Anyway. Im going to release a couple of torpedoe mods as addition to NSM soon.

[fireship4]

Oh ok, not such a bad bug then. a few questions then:


1. Could you tell me the rate of deep runners in early war and how likely it is to be a big error?

2. How big are different floodable compartments in a ship? if i spread the torpedos out just alont the front end of a ship am I likely to be hitting the same compartments over and over?

3. Do you know how likely it is for a merchant to spot a torpedo wake? And a warship?


Thanks

[WernerSobe]

Release: NSM Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions

Check first page for download.

changes:
more duds for impact detonators and narrower dud angles.
slightly higher circle runner chance (0,5% -> 1,5%)
deep runner chance 60%
a deep runner will run much deeper. (10-20 feet instead of 3-6)note: Historicaly US Sub Warfare doctrince dictated to use magnetic exploders only at a depth of 10-15 feet below registered draft. In the beginning of war submarine commanders actualy followed that instruction and found themself frustrated. They did not know that their torpedoes were running at wrong depth, after all they had no external camera.

If you want maximum realism, you can follow that rule at the beginning of the war. But dont expect many hits. You can however cheat around historical facts (since you know the problem) and use magnetic exploders at minimum depth. So even if it is a deep runner you have a good chance that it may explode under the ship. This is actualy what many expirienced captains were doing when they figured out problems with torpedo depth.

Bare in mind that at about March 43 problems with torpedoes were fixed. So you wont expirience any malfunctions after that date.

the torpedo mod must be installed after NSM

[WernerSobe]

Oh ok, not such a bad bug then. a few questions then:


1. Could you tell me the rate of deep runners in early war and how likely it is to be a big error?

2. How big are different floodable compartments in a ship? if i spread the torpedos out just alont the front end of a ship am I likely to be hitting the same compartments over and over?

3. Do you know how likely it is for a merchant to spot a torpedo wake? And a warship?


Thanks

1. default NSM is 70% and it will be random between 3 and 6 feet. In realistic torpedo malfunction mod its 60% and 10-20 feet.

2. it is very unlikely to hit the same compartment even if the other torpedo impacts few feets away... There are many compartments and you often hit more then one at a time. Example: Large merchants usualy have 10 compartments at each side.

3. I cant tell you exact numbers but they do spot the wakes and try to evade. Merchants are however very clumsy and they usualy spot them to late to make an effective evasion maneuver. Destroyers can easily dodge them especialy when attacked from the front.

[fireship4]

Thanks Werner, because I was wondering if I can take magnetic shots at merchants one by one so as not to waste torpedoes. Can they not spot them or is that unlikely? What about at night?

You say that there are narrower dud angles - I thought there was no way to connect angle of hit and dud chance - does it mean something else?

Lastly I read on another thread that every mk14 at the start of the war ran 4ft deep at least or something like that...

alot of questions sorry.

[baxter]

Thanks, Werner, for NSM Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions:D

[Schultzy]

Thanks, Werner, for NSM Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions:D

x2!

Safe to install mid patrol or is it a port refit only?

[WernerSobe]

Thanks, Werner, for NSM Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions:D
x2!

Safe to install mid patrol or is it a port refit only?

must be in port

[WernerSobe]

Thanks Werner, because I was wondering if I can take magnetic shots at merchants one by one so as not to waste torpedoes. Can they not spot them or is that unlikely? What about at night?

You say that there are narrower dud angles - I thought there was no way to connect angle of hit and dud chance - does it mean something else?



1. they will notice them and start zig zaging. Anyway if youre close enough you can still hit them. But that was not a common tactic. Historicaly they did not tried to save torpedoes. They just fired all tubes when ever they had a chance.

2. There are dud angles. So in example when the impact was 0-25° there is a dud chance of 9%. Is it an angle of 25-60° its already 45% and everything above is a 100% dud.

[jazman]

Bare in mind that at about March 43 problems with torpedoes were fixed. So you wont expirience any malfunctions after that date.


None at all? Or just a low level of malfunctioning?

[WernerSobe]

Bare in mind that at about March 43 problems with torpedoes were fixed. So you wont expirience any malfunctions after that date.

None at all? Or just a low level of malfunctioning?

There will be no more deep runners and dud chances for impact detonators are greatly reduced.

And it makes sence historicaly. They realy fixed most problems with their torpedoes. They were reliable at the end of the war.

[hyperion2206]

I just downloaded your mod and noticed something:

My career has started in 1943 and I'm using contact pistols only, but when I hit a ship the following always happens: No matter where I hit a ship it always breaks in 2. The ships don't always break when the torpedo hits, sometimes they just sit dead in the water and as soon as I get the "she's going down message" the ships explode and break up.
Here's my installation order:

TM 1.7.6
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
NSM 4.0 Classic

[:FI:Rabitski]

I had the same thing happen to me, I'd fire a spread of 3; One of which strikes home on the stern of the target and it cracks in half this was when I set the torpedo's to run shallow and for contact. It happened so much I reverted back to NSM 3 I get my kick's from watching them sink slowly. I also want to say a big thank you for all your time and effort you put into these NSM mods. Great work:up:

[WernerSobe]

I just downloaded your mod and noticed something:

My career has started in 1943 and I'm using contact pistols only, but when I hit a ship the following always happens: No matter where I hit a ship it always breaks in 2. The ships don't always break when the torpedo hits, sometimes they just sit dead in the water and as soon as I get the "she's going down message" the ships explode and break up.
Here's my installation order:

TM 1.7.6
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
NSM 4.0 Classic

this should not happen with this setup. Are you sure you did not overwrite zone.cfg or the torpedo files?

[rascal101]

Hi to all I think I am noticing this as well, when I hit something it always seems to wind up with them breaking in two

I just downloaded your mod and noticed something:

My career has started in 1943 and I'm using contact pistols only, but when I hit a ship the following always happens: No matter where I hit a ship it always breaks in 2. The ships don't always break when the torpedo hits, sometimes they just sit dead in the water and as soon as I get the "she's going down message" the ships explode and break up.
Here's my installation order:

TM 1.7.6
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
NSM 4.0 Classic
this should not happen with this setup. Are you sure you did not overwrite zone.cfg or the torpedo files?

[WernerSobe]

strange. doesnt happen to me.


You may have deep runners that actualy explode under the ship. There are a lot of deep runners. Otherwise you have a conflict with another mod. Make sure none of NSM files were overwritten.

[kriller2]

Nice work Wernersobe,

But I experinced something strange in nr. 3 training mission. The warship took 6 hits of torpedos and was still sailing like nothing happened, the ship was a little deeper under water though and you could see where the torpedos hit her, with 2 small holes.

Is this normal?

I am runing SH4 and ROW and ROW Special Effects for NSM4 from Dr. Beast.

[hyperion2206]

I just downloaded your mod and noticed something:

My career has started in 1943 and I'm using contact pistols only, but when I hit a ship the following always happens: No matter where I hit a ship it always breaks in 2. The ships don't always break when the torpedo hits, sometimes they just sit dead in the water and as soon as I get the "she's going down message" the ships explode and break up.
Here's my installation order:

TM 1.7.6
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
NSM 4.0 Classic
this should not happen with this setup. Are you sure you did not overwrite zone.cfg or the torpedo files?

Since I installed NSM after I installed all the other mods I've listed in the first post I couldn't have overwritten NSM's zone.cfg or torpedo files, coud I?
:FI:Rabitski has the same problem as I do: even when I hit a ship at the stern it will break in 2 eventually.
I don't think that deep runners could cause the problem for 2 reasons:
1. I've set the torpedos to contact exploders
2. In 1943 the influence exploder should be deactivated and the game should simulate this as well.

[WernerSobe]

I just downloaded your mod and noticed something:

My career has started in 1943 and I'm using contact pistols only, but when I hit a ship the following always happens: No matter where I hit a ship it always breaks in 2. The ships don't always break when the torpedo hits, sometimes they just sit dead in the water and as soon as I get the "she's going down message" the ships explode and break up.
Here's my installation order:

TM 1.7.6
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
NSM 4.0 Classic
this should not happen with this setup. Are you sure you did not overwrite zone.cfg or the torpedo files?
Since I installed NSM after I installed all the other mods I've listed in the first post I couldn't have overwritten NSM's zone.cfg or torpedo files, coud I?
:FI:Rabitski has the same problem as I do: even when I hit a ship at the stern it will break in 2 eventually.
I don't think that deep runners could cause the problem for 2 reasons:
1. I've set the torpedos to contact exploders
2. In 1943 the influence exploder should be deactivated and the game should simulate this as well.

well ive heard this reports from some. Some seem to have that problem, some not. It must be a conflict. It is hard for me to find where the problem is because i dont have it. When i use contact exploders and actualy hit they never break.

[Wilcke]

Put 2 magnetic influence into Taihosan Maru, both exploded underneath the keel. She started going down slowly. I put a contact torpedo shallow into her hull side toward the stern she broke in half.

My MOD list as installed.

Radio Honolulu mod
1_TMaru_Trigger_Maru_1.7.6
1A_TMaru_Tench_Class
2_TMaru_Sound
3_TMaru_GFX-ROW_Version_5
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320_Tench
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
Recognition manual V3 TM SH4 RSRDC
IJN DC mod 0.92
ROW Main Load Screen
ROW NEW SeaFoam from Jaketoox
ROW Addon for Reflections On The Water
Depth Charge Drop Splash Warning v1.0
Fairbanks Engine Sounds Final
warships_retextured_v1_3
NSM4 classic
NSM4 Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions
ROW Special Effects For NSM4 Classic
Black Spiderw + Rg circles-standard
30%_PPI_Noise

[WernerSobe]

Put 2 magnetic influence into Taihosan Maru, both exploded underneath the keel. She started going down slowly. I put a contact torpedo shallow into her hull side toward the stern she broke in half.

My MOD list as installed.

Radio Honolulu mod
1_TMaru_Trigger_Maru_1.7.6
1A_TMaru_Tench_Class
2_TMaru_Sound
3_TMaru_GFX-ROW_Version_5
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320_Tench
RSRDC_V320_Patch1
Recognition manual V3 TM SH4 RSRDC
IJN DC mod 0.92
ROW Main Load Screen
ROW NEW SeaFoam from Jaketoox
ROW Addon for Reflections On The Water
Depth Charge Drop Splash Warning v1.0
Fairbanks Engine Sounds Final
warships_retextured_v1_3
NSM4 classic
NSM4 Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions
ROW Special Effects For NSM4 Classic
Black Spiderw + Rg circles-standard
30%_PPI_Noise

id guess row special effects would be a candidate for such errors. It does definetely overwrite zones.cfg. Ill take a look inside

[hyperion2206]

Ok, I've checked the messages I get when I install NSM 4.0 over the other mods:

"Zones.cfg" has already been altered by the "1_TMaru_Trigger_1.7.6."mod.
"Shells.zon"
"Torpedoes_US.sim"
"Deck_Gun_3_50.sim"
"Deck_Gun_4_50.sim"
"NDD_Akizuki.zon"
"NDD_Asashio.zon"
"NDD_Fubuki.zon"
"NDD_Minekaze.zon"
"NDD_Mutsuki.zon"
"NDD_Shiratsuyu.zon"
"NKSCS_Taihosan.zon"
"NML_Okinoshima.zon" has already been altered by the "RSRDC_P3_TM_v320" mod.
"NML_Okinoshima.zon" "1_TMaru_Trigger_1.7.6."mod.
"NMS_NO.13.zon"
"NSC_Subchaser.zon"

I'll now disable NSM 4.0 and see if the ships still break in 2 every time. I'll let you know what happens.

[399nkov]

I installed NSM Classic last. On my first patrol all merchants, medium and large, broke in half, using fast, magnetic with a setting of 12ft under keel depth shown per target. I would send a second torp, fast, contact and shallow just in case. I never needed them if my first torp hit. I even had a second torp go thru the middle of the broken halves.
A carrier took six torps, two were set 12ft under keel depth, about 42ft if I remember rite, and four set shallow, fast, contact, all hits, no duds. She didn't split, just sank slowly, Late '43. I haven't installed NSM RTM yet.
I think I will try just contact exploders on my next target just to see if the results are different. Its hard to change a tactic when the one Iam using works well.

Thanks Werner for NSM

[DrBeast]

id guess row special effects would be a candidate for such errors. It does definetely overwrite zones.cfg. Ill take a look inside
Whoops...hope I didn't foul up anything! :oops:

ETA: thinking back, when I merged the two files, I added all the cargo types of ROW Special Effects. Which means the ships will be eligible to carry flammable/explosive stuff such as fuel (mostly) and ammunition, but also ammo crates, tanks, etc. Might be what sets off a violent explosion more often.

[WernerSobe]

Analysing the problem there could be only one reason why the ships break. Their keel zone has been damaged in some way. This could happen due to following circumstances.

-There is realy almost every torpedo running deeper then set. If youre using influence torpedoes and set depth like 12 it will likely run at 20 and explode under the ship.

-If that happens even with contact detonators it could be possible that it happens to a certain ship. I suspect Nagara maru. This is by far the most frequent target you face out there. If that ship has a bug with keel zone, making it possible to break it with contact torpedoes running at 10+ feet that would explain that.

-Another reason could be a conflict in the torpedo file. If a contact torpedo generate a too big explosion bubble it may reach the keel zone when it should not.

[Galanti]

My fist suspicion was Nagara, too, but then I blew up a medium modern split merchie with one contact hit the other night.

Also, is it at all possible for a contact shot to set off the keel? I know you said it wasn't before, just double-checking with you.:D

Another possiblity is that those of us using RSRD are seeing alot of ammo-laden ships in our patrols, accounting for what seems to be extreme volatility of marus in general. IIRC, in the stock campaign layer no ships have cargo.

[WernerSobe]

My fist suspicion was Nagara, too, but then I blew up a medium modern split merchie with one contact hit the other night.

Also, is it at all possible for a contact shot to set off the keel? I know you said it wasn't before, just double-checking with you.:D

Another possiblity is that those of us using RSRD are seeing alot of ammo-laden ships in our patrols, accounting for what seems to be extreme volatility of marus in general. IIRC, in the stock campaign layer no ships have cargo.

that could also be a reason actualy. I dont use RSRD and i havent seen that problem yet.

[stufer]

Hi there Werner Sobe. First of all I'd like to say thank you very much for all your effort on this mod - it has become one of my 'essentials'!

I'm also playing with TM and RSRDC installed and am having a blast.

I want to embrace the world of 100% realism now, including no map updates. I've just downloaded your realistic torpedoes mod and am about to give it all a whirl. I am trying to make it as hard as possible for myself (ooh err!) and so I thought I'd go for an S class in the Aleutians campaign.

Now, in TM, S class boats only get the mark 10 torpedo and I was wondering, does anything go wrong with those - both in your mod and in reality? I don't think they have the magnetic influence setting do they? Or do they?

Is there a possibility of deep-runners, premature explosions and duds (oh and circle-runners)? Both historically and in this mod?

Thanks in advance for any answers,

All the best,
Stu.

[WernerSobe]

Hi there Werner Sobe. First of all I'd like to say thank you very much for all your effort on this mod - it has become one of my 'essentials'!

I'm also playing with TM and RSRDC installed and am having a blast.

I want to embrace the world of 100% realism now, including no map updates. I've just downloaded your realistic torpedoes mod and am about to give it all a whirl. I am trying to make it as hard as possible for myself (ooh err!) and so I thought I'd go for an S class in the Aleutians campaign.

Now, in TM, S class boats only get the mark 10 torpedo and I was wondering, does anything go wrong with those - both in your mod and in reality? I don't think they have the magnetic influence setting do they? Or do they?

Is there a possibility of deep-runners, premature explosions and duds (oh and circle-runners)? Both historically and in this mod?

Thanks in advance for any answers,

All the best,
Stu.

MK10 also have malfunctions but they are much more reliable then mk14. And they have only contact detonators.

[stufer]

Great, thanks for your answer. I suppose the drawback to them is you have to get closer and that's trickier in the slower S-18. Think I'll go for single targets rather than convoys!

Cheers Werner,

Stu.

[Wolfling04]

WernerSobe, did NSM 4 come with a trial single mission like NSM 3 did?

[DrBeast]

Analysing the problem there could be only one reason why the ships break. Their keel zone has been damaged in some way. This could happen due to following circumstances.

-There is realy almost every torpedo running deeper then set. If youre using influence torpedoes and set depth like 12 it will likely run at 20 and explode under the ship.

-If that happens even with contact detonators it could be possible that it happens to a certain ship. I suspect Nagara maru. This is by far the most frequent target you face out there. If that ship has a bug with keel zone, making it possible to break it with contact torpedoes running at 10+ feet that would explain that.

-Another reason could be a conflict in the torpedo file. If a contact torpedo generate a too big explosion bubble it may reach the keel zone when it should not.
So ROW Special Effects for NSM4 looks ok to you? I didn't funk up something?

@Wolfling04: sadly, no. No accompanying mission.

[imbiginjapan]

Tried out the extra torpedo malfunction mod last night... My first target of the night was a single large freighter. Fired four torps - 3 deep runners, followed by a circle runner that sunk me! :dead: Time to start crash diving after firing torps, I guess.

As far as the merchants splitting in half business, I have seen this as well. I will try this without RSRD to see if it still occurs, but with my current setup merchant always break in half. It doesn't appear to happen to warships - I got three hits on a Takao and it took some time to capsize and sink.

[jazman]

Tried out the extra torpedo malfunction mod last night... My first target of the night was a single large freighter. Fired four torps - 3 deep runners, followed by a circle runner that sunk me! :dead: Time to start crash diving after firing torps, I guess.

As far as the merchants splitting in half business, I have seen this as well. I will try this without RSRD to see if it still occurs, but with my current setup merchant always break in half. It doesn't appear to happen to warships - I got three hits on a Takao and it took some time to capsize and sink.
Does anyone notice this happening with tankers? I had to put a number of fish into a medium tanker the other night, and added some deck gunning, and it still went down slowwwww.

[WernerSobe]

Tried out the extra torpedo malfunction mod last night... My first target of the night was a single large freighter. Fired four torps - 3 deep runners, followed by a circle runner that sunk me! :dead: Time to start crash diving after firing torps, I guess.

As far as the merchants splitting in half business, I have seen this as well. I will try this without RSRD to see if it still occurs, but with my current setup merchant always break in half. It doesn't appear to happen to warships - I got three hits on a Takao and it took some time to capsize and sink.
Only merchants and destroyers can break in two. It is wanted but it should only happen when the torpedo explodes under the ship and not on direct impact...

bare in mind that if youre running at high realism settings without event- or external camera. You may misinterprete the results. If you have set up a torpedoe for direct hull hit and observed an impact, in does not neceseerely have to be a hull hit. You may, and you will most likely, have a malfunction with the torpedo depth resulting in unwanted keel hit.

Please, if youre unsure whats happening use external camera and watch the torpedoes. Make sure they actualy hit the hull and not the keel and if the target breaks please remember the type of the ship, the date when it happened, your mod setup (and order) and post it here. thank you.

[tedhealy]

I don't think I would have noticed it if I hadn't read about it here, but evey ship I hit in my current NSM4 patrol has broken in two.

Running
1_TMaru_Trigger_Maru_1.7.6
2_TMaru_Sound
3_TMaru_GFX-ROW_Version_5
RSRDC_P3_TM_v320
Pacific enviroment for ROW
RSRDC_V320_Patch2
NSM4 classic
NSM4 Realistic Torpedo Malfunctions

Mostly medium old split merchants that I can remember in mid 1942. All torpedoes set for 5 or 6 feet, all set to contact. One hit breaks the ship in half and I get instant sink notification. Can't tell you where they hit though, sorry. Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?

[DrDrexxell]

Can someone tell me the easiest wayof locating and using the NSM mod? I downloaded it and had no luck from the initial page.

Thank you,

[WernerSobe]

Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?

no. its definetely not right. It doesnt happen to me. I have the same setup but without RSRD

[DrBeast]

Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?
no. its definetely not right. It doesnt happen to me. I have the same setup but without RSRD

Hm...RSRDC doesn't affect torpedoes, though. And only the .sim file of the Okinoshima, with regards to ships. :hmm:

[:FI:Rabitski]

I re-installed everything again yesterday; inc RSRD. Went out on patrol and north of Bali, I came across a large cargo ship, I fired 4 contact's and dove deep. The 1st hit and everything seemed fine, then the 2nd hit and she blew up and split in 2. I'm playing with just the externals enabled, shortly after this I got a large tanker, fired 2 @ this one both fish set to run @ 35ft both went off under the tanker and blew her up. So the Magnitic's work like a charm, it's the contact one's that are a bit off. I'm running the following Mod's (All the torpedo's were Mk 23's)

Some screen shot's. This happens everytime.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/Rabitski/SH4Img2008-02-13_100806_562.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/Rabitski/SH4Img2008-02-13_100831_703.jpg


Pacific enviroment for ROW.
RFB_1.4_for ROW_RC1.
RSRD_V340.
NSM4 classic.
NSM4 Realisitc Torpedo Malfunctions.
Diverate.
ROW Speical Effect For NSM4 Classic.

[WernerSobe]

Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?
no. its definetely not right. It doesnt happen to me. I have the same setup but without RSRD
Hm...RSRDC doesn't affect torpedoes, though. And only the .sim file of the Okinoshima, with regards to ships. :hmm:

but it does change cargo loadout. If there is even only one crate of ammo the entire ship will blow. Its the secondary explosions that trigger the keel zone.

[tedhealy]

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

[:FI:Rabitski]

Is this a problem that's fixable? or should those of that are running RSRD switch back to NSM3?

[Wilcke]

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

I have not looked at the innards of NSM3.3 in a long time ago as I merged it with Trigger Maru but I think it worked well. It did not have the extended keel compartment that Werner added to NSM4. Well, I am going to pull NSM4 out I am seeing the same behavior as you are. RSRD is indispensable in my MOD lineup. To each his own and I am not criticizing Werner's work since I really do like the MOD.

[Torps]

Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?
no. its definetely not right. It doesnt happen to me. I have the same setup but without RSRD
Hm...RSRDC doesn't affect torpedoes, though. And only the .sim file of the Okinoshima, with regards to ships. :hmm:

but it does change cargo loadout. If there is even only one crate of ammo the entire ship will blow. Its the secondary explosions that trigger the keel zone.

Anyway to get the two to work together?

[tedhealy]

I have not looked at the innards of NSM3.3 in a long time ago as I merged it with Trigger Maru but I think it worked well. It did not have the extended keel compartment that Werner added to NSM4. Well, I am going to pull NSM4 out I am seeing the same behavior as you are. RSRD is indispensable in my MOD lineup. To each his own and I am not criticizing Werner's work since I really do like the MOD.

Ok, I'll definitely give NSM3.3 a go with the latest TM and RSRD.

Tough choices, I definitely do not want to give up RSRD, but I also don't want to give up natural sinking :arrgh!:

[tedhealy]

I went back to NSM3.3 with the 3.3 hardcore torpedo mod. Now that's the NSM I remember.

I torpedoed a large modern composite going about 11-12 knots, 4 fish fired all set for contact at 6 feet depth, 3 hits, 1 dud. The 2 hits were aft of the the funnel at 11:54. She kept on going but with observations at 60 second intervals I could tell she was flooding in the stern. Speed slowed to about 5 or 6 knots some 5 minutes later at about 12:00. Stern observed way down at or below water line while the bow is rising at 12:05, speed 1-2 knot. 12:10, sunk message appears as she slides in backwards, bow way up in the air. 12:13, ship vanishes beneath the waves.

:rock:

No major explosions or broken keels. Wasn't even a fire on deck until the stern went below the waterline.

[AlmightyTallest]

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

[Galanti]

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

It's safer to do it in port, but I'm 99% it won't ruin your career.

As a stopgap measure until you get to port, i suggest opening your Zones.cfg (in the root of your Data folder), finding this entry:

[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo

And change CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. This should stop you from breaking ships in 2 with contact shots. It will also stop you from breaking them in 2 with mag shots, though.

[Galanti]

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

I seems like exploding ammo is the culprit between NSM 4 and RSRD, but I ran a few patrols with RSRD and NSM 3.3 without any abnormal behavior.

[WernerSobe]

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?
It's safer to do it in port, but I'm 99% it won't ruin your career.

As a stopgap measure until you get to port, i suggest opening your Zones.cfg (in the root of your Data folder), finding this entry:

[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo

And change CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. This should stop you from breaking ships in 2 with contact shots. It will also stop you from breaking them in 2 with mag shots, though.

This is the best alternative i can suggest yet. Im working on a fix but this will take a while. So far you can disable The keel zone by the method above. You will still have all nsm4 features but without breaking ships.

[DrBeast]

Im working on a fix but this will take a while.

Will lowering either CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier do the trick? I remember it was the first parameter that gave me nasty side-effects when I was merging the NSM4 and ROW zones.cfg files.

[:FI:Rabitski]

What would happen if you disabled both the CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier ? wouldn't the vessel sink anyhow due to damage to the hull? So we'd lose out on eye candy; but the ship's would sink closer to the way there ment to, plus your torpedo expendture would be closer to the truth? I've noticed useing NSM 3 + the hardcore NSM 3 that oil tankers also blow up with one hit, Cargo ship's seem fine, 3-4 contact hit's and a wee while to go under.

[Galanti]

Is NSM 3.3 still around for download somewhere?

[AlmightyTallest]

Okay, thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

I love RSRD, but also can't part with NSM, can't wait to see them working better together.

[Chardok]

Forgive my laziness, but I don't want to sift through the thred, as it were....is NSM compatible with TM? I thought I saw NSM IN the actual notes of TM, but I've never split a ship, so I wonder if it's *really* there....


but back to the original question: Does TM work with NSM, and if so, what version? (I'm running nothing but TM 1.7.6z or whatever the most recent is called and stock 1.4)

[DrBeast]

Im working on a fix but this will take a while.
Will lowering either CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier do the trick? I remember it was the first parameter that gave me nasty side-effects when I was merging the NSM4 and ROW zones.cfg files.
And the answer to this is: no! Lowering the AmmoForceMultiplier does nothing (I set it as low as 0.1 from NSM's 4), ditto FuelForceMultiplier, and lowering the CargoExplosionRange gets rid of the "ship disintegrating" effect, but it's still a one-shot kill.
What triggers this violent explosion is internal Fuel or Ammunition loadouts only, external cargo does not matter; I tried a single mission with boats loaded with a large variety of cargo, and this conclusion is final.
Werner, if you need any help with playtesting, give me a holler. My setup already includes ROW Special Effects and RSRDC.

@Chardok: not compatible per se, but still usable. Make sure to install NSM4 after TMaru.

[Galanti]

Yeah, I've disabled the exploding keel and now I'm getting 'She's going down' instantly after the first contact hit on every maru. I would suspect that the ammo cargos set by RSRD are the culprit, yet I can't beleive every maru in RSRD is loaded with ammo.

I'd like to go back to NSM 3.3 until this gets straightened out, does anyone have it or a link to it?

[ReallyDedPoet]

This is on WS's FF Site:

http://files.filefront.com/NaturalSinkingMechanics+33zip/;8540760;/fileinfo.html

I am sure he will have the new version up to snuff shortly.



RDP

[jazman]

Up to my last patrol, I thought things were going OK, that I wasn't having problems with RSRD / NSM. This last patrol, though, was Hollywood crazy! Sinking a large modern tanker with two fish (broke the ship in two), and a large modern composite with a single shot--yep! at the stern, and she broke in two. Lots of cool explosions, I admit the eye-candy was a nice change-of-pace.

I guess for the next patrol I'll pull NSM, I figure the RSRD non-NSM is better than the RSRD / NSM combo. Until things get fixed...looking forward to it, whereever the problem might lie (not blaming NSM). But I just _have_ to keep RSRD.

[Fish40]

Up to my last patrol, I thought things were going OK, that I wasn't having problems with RSRD / NSM. This last patrol, though, was Hollywood crazy! Sinking a large modern tanker with two fish (broke the ship in two), and a large modern composite with a single shot--yep! at the stern, and she broke in two. Lots of cool explosions, I admit the eye-candy was a nice change-of-pace.

I guess for the next patrol I'll pull NSM, I figure the RSRD non-NSM is better than the RSRD / NSM combo. Until things get fixed...looking forward to it, whereever the problem might lie (not blaming NSM). But I just _have_ to keep RSRD.




It's funny, I have seen this behavior (useing RFB, RSRD, NSM) also, and was disappointed when I learned there was a problem with the two mods togeather. But the other night, I came across a Medium Old Split Freighter, and fired two keel shots at her. Both detonated, but no fireworks or splitting in two. Just a gradual sinking, with a secondary explosion just befor she went under.

I know it seems to be the ammo cargo that allows for the ships to break in two, but do all the ships have ammo in their holds? I guess I found one that didn't.

[DrBeast]

Up to my last patrol, I thought things were going OK, that I wasn't having problems with RSRD / NSM. This last patrol, though, was Hollywood crazy! Sinking a large modern tanker with two fish (broke the ship in two), and a large modern composite with a single shot--yep! at the stern, and she broke in two. Lots of cool explosions, I admit the eye-candy was a nice change-of-pace.

I guess for the next patrol I'll pull NSM, I figure the RSRD non-NSM is better than the RSRD / NSM combo. Until things get fixed...looking forward to it, whereever the problem might lie (not blaming NSM). But I just _have_ to keep RSRD.



It's funny, I have seen this behavior (useing RFB, RSRD, NSM) also, and was disappointed when I learned there was a problem with the two mods togeather. But the other night, I came across a Medium Old Split Freighter, and fired two keel shots at her. Both detonated, but no fireworks or splitting in two. Just a gradual sinking, with a secondary explosion just befor she went under.

I know it seems to be the ammo cargo that allows for the ships to break in two, but do all the ships have ammo in their holds? I guess I found one that didn't.


Like I stated a few posts up, " What triggers this violent explosion is internal Fuel or Ammunition loadouts only, external cargo does not matter". According to lurker, the ships in RSRDC are randomly loaded with any of those cargoes.

[jazman]

Like I stated a few posts up, " What triggers this violent explosion is internal Fuel or Ammunition loadouts only, external cargo does not matter". According to lurker, the ships in RSRDC are randomly loaded with any of those cargoes.

I guess on earlier patrols the randomness was in the ships' favor. The last patrol was greatly in my favor as several floating mega-firecrackers passed my way. I'll keep with it, then, for the moment.

Nice bonus: upgrade from a Porpoise to a Gato.

[Galanti]

It occurs to me the problem with super-volatile marus has nothing to do with NSM, but more to do with RSRD and it's random assigning of ammunition cargo to freighters, because I don't believe Werner has done anything that affects how the stock game treats exploding ammo.

The stock campaign didn't assign cargo at all to marus, so the problem has been masked until now. Those of us who consider the two mods as essential ( I sure as hell do) may need to look at ways of limiting the impact of exploding ammunition or perhaps hacking cargodef.cfg so that ammo has the same volatility as a load of karoake machines.

[hyperion2206]

It occurs to me the problem with super-volatile marus has nothing to do with NSM, but more to do with RSRD and it's random assigning of ammunition cargo to freighters, because I don't believe Werner has done anything that affects how the stock game treats exploding ammo.

The stock campaign didn't assign cargo at all to marus, so the problem has been masked until now. Those of us who consider the two mods as essential ( I sure as hell do) may need to look at ways of limiting the impact of exploding ammunition or perhaps hacking cargodef.cfg so that ammo has the same volatility as a load of karoake machines.

But why then assigning ammo to a ship if it has the same volatility as a load of karaoke machines? If you don't want the ammo to explode then you can remove it alltogether.
I do however agree that the impact of exploding ammo has to be greatly reduced, because I do think as well that RSRDC and NSM 4.0 are absolutely essential.:yep:

[jazman]

It occurs to me the problem with super-volatile marus has nothing to do with NSM, but more to do with RSRD and it's random assigning of ammunition cargo to freighters, because I don't believe Werner has done anything that affects how the stock game treats exploding ammo.


Understood. And last night I killed a medium modern composite with a single hit, it just disintegrated into the sea. I think it was carrying barrels of nitroglycerin. I could see the crew watching "The Wages of Fear" on the aft deck.

[peterloo]

Hello everyone ~ well since I'm gonna face public exam which will greatly decide my future, I paused playing SH4 for the good sake of results (I can't affort to spend 2 times to finish a patrol ~ that's a kind of luxuary for me at this moment) - so I don't visit the forum at much as before. But I'll still check out the subsim forum for the latest mods :)

[/not related stuff]

Well, I tried to download, but due to an error (I'm not sure whether its mine or the ISP deliberately blocked Filefront), I couldn't obtain the file

Would anyone mind uploading the file to another file hosting server for me (e.g. Sendspace / rapidshare) Thanks in advance! :yep:

Thanks again for the author of this enchanting mod ~ it makes my day :rock::up:

[SgtWalt65]

Hello,
I love your mods, just want to thank you for all the hard work....before I voice a complant :up: .

With version 4 of your sink mod, I have been having some really freaky weird problems and had to go back to version 3.3 which works fine. Here is a list of the odd things accurring since I installed version 4 that did not occure in version 3.3.

1. The Homing Torpedoe no longer track targets ( Mark 27 I think it is ) and the Mk 18 no longer leaves any visual damage to ships at all, nore seldom does any 4in and 5in stern or bow gun rounds. I don;t try to many other torpedo's except the Mk.27 and Mk.18 so I am not sure how they are doing.

2. Almost all ships explode on usually 1 keel hit with contact detonator set. Including a Kongo Battleship. :D That was a sight to behold.

3. When ships break in two, there skeleton interiors get duplicated and look like 2 ships but each half has the trace of the interior but no exterior skin. ( Very strange bug ).

Thats all for now. Once I went back to 3.3 all this went away. Only other mod installed is RSRD mod with LeoVampire's ( RIP Leo ) graphics.

[gimpy117]

is there a proformance hit??

[LukeFF]

is there a proformance hit??

It's a text-based mod, not a graphics mod...

[caspofungin]

I could see the crew watching "The Wages of Fear" on the aft deck.

poor watchkeeping, but at least they had good taste in films.

[SgtWalt65]

It occurs to me the problem with super-volatile marus has nothing to do with NSM, but more to do with RSRD and it's random assigning of ammunition cargo to freighters, because I don't believe Werner has done anything that affects how the stock game treats exploding ammo.

The stock campaign didn't assign cargo at all to marus, so the problem has been masked until now. Those of us who consider the two mods as essential ( I sure as hell do) may need to look at ways of limiting the impact of exploding ammunition or perhaps hacking cargodef.cfg so that ammo has the same volatility as a load of karoake machines.

But why then assigning ammo to a ship if it has the same volatility as a load of karaoke machines? If you don't want the ammo to explode then you can remove it alltogether.
I do however agree that the impact of exploding ammo has to be greatly reduced, because I do think as well that RSRDC and NSM 4.0 are absolutely essential.:yep:

I wish my Uncle Walter Ray was still alive. He passsed away about 25 years ago. But he joined the U.S. Navy in 1932 and served 32 years. During WW2 he was in port ( island unknown, cannot recall now ), a US Merchant Marine carring ammo was anchored in harbor and was being off loaded when everything went black according to him. He was about 1/2 mile away he said and everyone on the side of the side facing the ammo ship on his ship where killed instantly and several including his best friend on the port side where killed and he was knocked down. His friend was still standing and reached down to help him up. He looked up to thank his friend ( but unable to hear anything because of the explosion ) and saw everything above his lower jaw was missing. The ammo ship had vanished and 2 DD's on each side of the ammo ship where gone as well. Also a company of US Marines helping to off load the ship where gone and a hospital about 6 miles away had all its windows blown out and .50 Cal ammo belts where found over 8 miles away. They never did find out what caused the explosion, but no reported Sub activity was detected before or after the incident, so they blamed it as an accident during the off loading. There was one survivor from the ammo ship. He was in the engine room. All they said he recalled was one second all was well and the next he found himself treading water in the bay.
So from this account, I would say an ammo ship indeed can explode with some very nast power depending I would imagine on type of ammo carried.

He did have pictures he showed me of the after effects on his ship and on shore ( very yellowly pictures they where). Which they beached because it was so riddled with holes it was taking on water to fast for the pumps to handle and she was listing badly. He never regained hearing in his right ear and it still bled from time to time even up unto his death day. Suprised they let him stay in the Navy with that ear like that. BTW he was at the Battle of Coral Sea and the Battle of Midway. He was an aircraft mechanic just like me and served on carriers. Was being transfered on a smaller ship to a different carrier out at sea when this happened. His carrier ( not sure of name, been to long ) was badly damaged in a battle and this was reason for his transfer to another carrier as his was going stateside for repairs. I do know he served on the Lexington and the Hornet but not sure of others. I believe I recall him saying this happened at some point in '44.

Did some searching on damaged carriers in 1944 and came across the USS Intrepid being severely damaged by kamakazi attacks in Nov of 1944 and was unable to launch or recover planes as her hanger deck was burned out stern to stern and the deck was twisted and she limped back to Pearl Harbor ( not a State at that time, but he could have ment there ). All aircrew where transfered to other carriers after this attack due to damage.

Picture taken from the Halsey's flagship the Battleship "USS New Jersey" as kamakazi plane dives on "USS Intrepid" during this battle.
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/pictoral/intrep2.jpg
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/pictoral/intrep3.jpg
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/pictoral/intrep4.jpg

U.S.S. Intrepid had the unhappy distinction of being one of the most frequently damaged ships in the U.S. Pacific Fleet. She was commisioned 16th August 1943, and was assigned to the Pacific Fleet immediately thereafter. She suffered torpedo damage during her first assignment, dealt to her by Betty torpedo bombers. Her sailors, after several accidents and the unusually severe damage dealt by the one torpedo, dubbed her the U.S.S Decrepid, the Unlucky I, and the Evil I.

In October 1944, following the landings on Leyte Fleet Admiral Halsey's Third Fleet covered U.S. ground operations on Leyte as heavy rains made the use of the captured airfields on Leyte difficult. Carrier commanders detested being tied to the beaches, even if such a large area was open to maneuver as the Philippine Sea. They had due reason to be worried. Since 25th October , 1944, the Japanese had employed a new tactic that was to be called the "Divine Wind" - Kamikaze. U.S. sailors, in an ironic twist, called it the "Devil Diver". These attack groups would dive their bomb-laden planes into their targets, preferably carriers. On 29th October, Intrepid had been given a first taste of these attacks, but suffered little damage.
In the next several weeks, the Carrier Task Force remained further off shore, supporting directly and indirectly the ground forces, and in the last week of November, operations were again begun against the main Philippine island of Luzon. Intrepid was part of Rear-Admiral Gerry Bogan's TG 38.2, as were Bunker Hill, Cabot, and Independence. Air attacks began on November 25th with what was left of the Carrier Force - Sherman's and Davison's forces having retired to Ulithi. It was left to Bogan's and Montgomery's forces to strike Luzon again and then, the Visayas.
It didn't come so far. Planes from the carriers sank the cruiser Nachi in Manila Bay, but this time, the Japanese struck back with great force. As the strike planes were well on their way, air raid alarm was sounded and the carriers prepared to receive the attackers. At 1248, a Zero force was detected and five minutes later, one of their number crashed into Intrepid, starting a serious fire, while another one hit the carrier Cabot. Fires were under control again, however, when at 1300 a third strike (the first strike didn't hit anything, Intrepid was hit by the second) was encountered. It dove from low height into the twisting Intrepid's deck, blowing a hole into her flight-deck and setting afire the hangar from stern to stem. Though these fires were under control quickly, their heat helped other fires throughout the ship, and the badly damaged flight deck, including her arrestor gear, made flight operations impossible. Her strike planes and CAP were taken aboard by other carriers, and Intrepid made it back to Ulithi and hence, to Pearl Harbor. The attack cost her 69 men dead and 35 seriously wounded.

Talked to my grandmother who is still alive at 96 years old and he was her brother. His wife is dead as well now ( didn't know that ) and she has most of his items and rumeged through some of his info. He retired as an Master Chief Petty Officer ( 2nd Class? A 2 ** next to the rank, unsure what that means ) MCPO **. Retired in June 26, 1964, born Jan. 2, 1913, died March 18, 1982. Buried Yazoo City, Mississippi along with his wife.
Died from cancer she says.
Some of his awards include the following.
On the DD214 Form and she has his medals in a velt lined box.


Navy Cross. For heroism after an attack on his ship for rescueing fellow men from a fire. A 10 page report was attached to this citation she says. Along with a picture of the medal presentation and autographed by the presenter. A Navy officer she says. Need to see that for myself. On the deck of a ship with a lot of big guns she said, LOL. Not a carrier I suspect.
Purple Heart with 3 ***
WW2 Victory Medal.
Asiatic Pacific Campaign Medal.
Star Device Medal? Whats that?
Philippine Liberation Medal.
RoK War Service Medal ( Korean War )
A few more.

She is old and doesnt see to well so that was all she could give me. I had to decifer some of it as she could barely read it.

[Steel_Tomb]

Hey guys, I'm getting some mods together for another go at SHIV. Does this work ok with TM1.7.6? I read in the TM thread that this will overwrite some stuff in TM, has this been corrected? If not you think it would be possible for the mod makers to team up and get it to work?

[M. Sarsfield]

I'm using NSM4 with TM1.7.6. NSM4 will overwrite certain TM files, but that's okay.

[Steel_Tomb]

Ok thanks.

[bertle]

How does this work with 1.5 now?

I imagine there would be problems with the new German pocket battleship? Would this be the only problem?

I ask because they've done nothing to address the fact that the American battleships have a totally messed up damage model. It didn't matter before when you were sinking Japanese ships but now you get to see how stupid the American ships are. The colorado class lists 45 degrees milliseconds after the first torpedo hits and can be sunk by cruisers within a matter of minutes. The new California explodes from end to end on the first torpedo hit and sinks in a second, boom gone.

[Galanti]

How does this work with 1.5 now?

I imagine there would be problems with the new German pocket battleship? Would this be the only problem?

I ask because they've done nothing to address the fact that the American battleships have a totally messed up damage model. It didn't matter before when you were sinking Japanese ships but now you get to see how stupid the American ships are. The colorado class lists 45 degrees milliseconds after the first torpedo hits and can be sunk by cruisers within a matter of minutes. The new California explodes from end to end on the first torpedo hit and sinks in a second, boom gone.

I imagine there would be a ton of work to get all the new ships and existing American ones to work. And it looks like Werners got some RL obligations to tend to at the moment.

I'm holding out on my 1.5 purchase until NSM gets updated, but recognize it could be some time.

[SirHendrik]

NSM4 is great! Waiting for 1.5 release as playing isn't fun any more, if you already played 1.4 with NSM and ROW :-(

[Doolittle81]

I worry that the weeks of extensive criticism of NSM 4, some constructive and probably justified but some I think not, may have discouraged Werner from pursuing further NSM improvements for the community. He has not posted here for the past 2 1/2 weeks. Real Life matters do arise for all of us, from time to time. It would be a great loss if Werner were to reduce his community efforts, which have been so valuable to us all. I hope I am completely wrong and worrying unnecessarily...

[Fish40]

I hope that's not the case:cry:. I bought the d/l version of 1.5 this morning, and placed it in its' own folder along with the 1.5 mods I'll be needing. So far RSRD was made compatable, but I'm still waiting on RFB, and NSM. This is a MUST have mod! I feel the game will suffer without it. Please Werner, don't give up now!

[Malakie]

Talk about brain drain... I installed the expansion and without realizing it, I installed the Sinking Mechanics Light version mod and RSRD mod. RSRD has been updated for 1.5 and I must not have been paying attention because I installed the natural sinking light version also.. Then proceeded to go on a tour...

Imagine being out there patrolling for days when I finally come across a lone freighter just begging to be sunk. I line er up, put two fish into her and she sinks to the gunwales, aft deck mostly awash. Some lone seaman is not about to give up the fight cause when I surface, he opens up at me with a lone 50 .cal. I let my deck gunners try to take care of him but when the fail to do that and fail to finish off the ship, I realize I am going to have to waste another torp on her. She is still aft deck awash, but holding just enough bouyancy to not give up the fight.

I send another torp into her this time into the bow and watch expecting her to now drop into the sea relatively fast.

But she doesn't.. Ok me thinks.. this is one old ship that just does not want to die. So I send another fish on its way... and still she will not go down. Ok now I am thinking, what the hell... even if the fish hit in the same impact area, it would open up bulkheads deeper inside the ship.. After this many fish, she should be headed to the bottom just from sheer damage.

Basically, I ended up putting 24 fish into this ship.. I even moved to the other side and put fish into that side as well. And still it would not sink.

I was sitting there wondering what the hell type of ship this was when I decided to save, exit and re-load the game..... maybe it was glitched.

After exiting, I happened to look in the JGSME tool and low and behold, realized I had installed the natural sinking mod. Oops.

Suffice it to say, I removed it and now everything sinks.

So if anyone happens to wonder, the natural sinking mod is not compatible with 1.5! LOL

Malakie

[Doolittle81]

So....is it correct that only RSRD and Pacific Environment 1.1 are compatible with SH4 1.5 (the AddOn)?

....and No version of NSM can be used....? With NSM4 with SH4/1.4, the major complaint seemed to be that virtually every ship would explode dramatically with a single Keel shot. The above post seems to indicate that with SH4/1.5, even 24 torp hits have NO effect.

Is it the concensus,then, that the default SH4/1.5 be used without any Sinking Mod whatsoever? Even NSM 3.3 will not work?

[bratwurstdimsum]

A belated thanks for this, :up: I had a mission with the Graf Spee in it and crash-dived when I ran into a British DD escorting a task force. The Graf Spee obviously lost because when I did an external view 30 seconds later, it was gone. Not very accurate unless the Brits scored a Bismarck-type hit! :shifty:

[Doolittle81]

A belated thanks for this, :up: I had a mission with the Graf Spee in it and crash-dived when I ran into a British DD escorting a task force. The Graf Spee obviously lost because when I did an external view 30 seconds later, it was gone. Not very accurate unless the Brits scored a Bismarck-type hit! :shifty:

I'm a bit slow at times, but I must say I don't have ANY idea what you are talking about.....

[Galanti]

I worry that the weeks of extensive criticism of NSM 4, some constructive and probably justified but some I think not, may have discouraged Werner from pursuing further NSM improvements for the community. He has not posted here for the past 2 1/2 weeks. Real Life matters do arise for all of us, from time to time. It would be a great loss if Werner were to reduce his community efforts, which have been so valuable to us all. I hope I am completely wrong and worrying unnecessarily...

I agree with the last bit, but I don't think the words 'extensive criticism' are warranted. People noticed an overwhelming tendency for marus to explode catastrophically upon contact shots and said so. A few of us noticed the resulting explosions also took out nearby ships. This was clearly not design behavior. I don't think pointing this out can be construed as 'excessive criticism'.

Now, the jury's still out on whether it's an NSM or RSRD issue, and personally I'm now leaning towards RSRD and the ammo cargoes it introduces. I will apologize to Werner if I ever sounded like I was unduly ripping his mod, but I frankly don't believe I did. I think I've made it clear that his effort is one of the crown jewels in SH4's crown, and the stock damage modelling makes the game nearly unplayable to me without NSM.

[DrBeast]

I worry that the weeks of extensive criticism of NSM 4, some constructive and probably justified but some I think not, may have discouraged Werner from pursuing further NSM improvements for the community. He has not posted here for the past 2 1/2 weeks. Real Life matters do arise for all of us, from time to time. It would be a great loss if Werner were to reduce his community efforts, which have been so valuable to us all. I hope I am completely wrong and worrying unnecessarily...
I agree with the last bit, but I don't think the words 'extensive criticism' are warranted. People noticed an overwhelming tendency for marus to explode catastrophically upon contact shots and said so. A few of us noticed the resulting explosions also took out nearby ships. This was clearly not design behavior. I don't think pointing this out can be construed as 'excessive criticism'.

Now, the jury's still out on whether it's an NSM or RSRD issue, and personally I'm now leaning towards RSRD and the ammo cargoes it introduces. I will apologize to Werner if I ever sounded like I was unduly ripping his mod, but I frankly don't believe I did. I think I've made it clear that his effort is one of the crown jewels in SH4's crown, and the stock damage modelling makes the game nearly unplayable to me without NSM.
Well, it's an RSRDC PLUS NSM4 issue. Lurker himself has stated that, for reasons of realism, some 35% of the Marus in RSRDC carry either ammo or fuel, which are the volatile cargoes that cause the massive explosion (coupled with the keel zone that Werner modified to carry ammo, to create the ships breaking in half effect) - this is a fact I've established after extensive testing. Werner could not have known this, as he did all his tests on stock game, where all the Marus carry Freight, which will not produce the side-effect we users of RSRDC noticed.
This is not to say that either Lurker or Werner are to blame, they both strive to make this game as enjoyable as possible, and boy have they both done a great job there!
Last we heard of Werner, he said he'd look into the matter, but it's a complex one that will require quite some time. So, patience is the key word here ;)

[Galanti]

Yep, and since I'm not sure if Werner ever touched the US ships, will also takes boatloads of time to get it inline with 1.5. I'm in no particular hurry, I'm still having a hoot with NSM 3.3 and urge Werner to take his time, do well on his exams and make sure his real world needs are tended to.

[DrBeast]

I ... urge Werner to take his time, do well on his exams and make sure his real world needs are tended to.

Aye aye to that :yep:

[Wilcke]

DrBeast,

Well put in all regards, not all mods play well together, the complexity and interelatedness are extensive. Sometimes you have to choose and that can be hard. Both Werner and Lurker have added tons of playability to SH4. Their work stands alone and is deeply appreciated by the community.

I do know that both of them appreciate "constructive criticism" and/or as I like to phrase it "observations", I do not mod but I play the sim a lot and I always wonder what I am looking at is intentional or a by product of MODS not working well together, so you have to ask the author.

Both of these MODS are indispensable, my favorite version of NSM is still 3.3, although 4.0's implementation of the keel hit zone was a great breakthrough for Werner.

Great people!

[Doolittle81]

For those who have done methodical testing of NSM versions and RSRDC: Is it correct that only with NSM 4.0 will the Keel zone shots work to split a ship (break its back)...setting torp depth about 10 feet Under the keel?

If so, then if one uses NSM3.3, should one always shoot to hit the target (with torps set for Contact) rather than torps set for magnetic and set for a depth beneath the Keel?

[NAZ2222]

Sorry, but I would like to know if this mod(or another version) works with SH3? It looks amazing, and would be a great company to GWX2.0!
thankx

[Digital_Trucker]

For those who have done methodical testing of NSM versions and RSRDC: Is it correct that only with NSM 4.0 will the Keel zone shots work to split a ship (break its back)...setting torp depth about 10 feet Under the keel?

If so, then if one uses NSM3.3, should one always shoot to hit the target (with torps set for Contact) rather than torps set for magnetic and set for a depth beneath the Keel?

That's been my experience. If I'm not misremembering (is that even a word?:hmm: ) the keel was either unbreakable or was not modelled in the stock game or in NSM 3.3

[Nuc]

That's been my experience. If I'm not misremembering (is that even a word?:hmm: )

Not quite up there with Casey Stengel or a Yogiism

[Digital_Trucker]

That's been my experience. If I'm not misremembering (is that even a word?:hmm: )

Not quite up there with Casey Stengel or a Yogiism

Yeah, but it's pretty close to a Nixonism:rotfl:

[Doolittle81]

For those who have done methodical testing of NSM versions and RSRDC: Is it correct that only with NSM 4.0 will the Keel zone shots work to split a ship (break its back)...setting torp depth about 10 feet Under the keel?

If so, then if one uses NSM3.3, should one always shoot to hit the target (with torps set for Contact) rather than torps set for magnetic and set for a depth beneath the Keel?

That's been my experience. If I'm not misremembering (is that even a word?:hmm: ) the keel was either unbreakable or was not modelled in the stock game or in NSM 3.3

So...let me rephrase the second part of my question: What, if any, is the advantage of using 'contact+magnetic' rather than just 'contact only' ? I mean, with just NSM 3.3, will a beneath-keel magnetic shot do more damage than a hull-hit shot, even though the ship will not be broken in two?

[Digital_Trucker]

So...let me rephrase the second part of my question: What, if any, is the advantage of using 'contact+magnetic' rather than just 'contact only' ? I mean, with just NSM 3.3, will a beneath-keel magnetic shot do more damage than a hull-hit shot, even though the ship will not be broken in two?

I can't imagine how it would do more damage since it would be farther away from the ship than a contact hit. Werner's implementation of keel destruction (again, if I remember correctly) was to create a zone 10 feet below the keel and filled with explosives. The result would be that, if you hit this invisible zone, a huge explosion occurred with enough force to break the ships back. Without this invisible bomb beneath the ship, all you would be doing is exploding your torpedo farther away from the hull, thereby lessening the damage.

Edit : Sorry, I didn't answer the first part of the question.:oops: I don't believe there is any benefit to using the contact+magnetic.

[kv29]

I wonder if everyone know that roughly HALF of the ships are tweaked in NSM4
No american ships are included, rendering the mod useless with 1.5

Am I correct??:hmm:

[theluckyone17]

Boy, I hope WernerSobe is working on updating this to 1.5. Can anyone confirm that he is, or someone else is? I tossed two wild shots at a light cruiser last night, hitting it just below the forward superstructure. Fireworks ensued... but she went down like a brick. Bow went down, she kept moving forward... it looked like a swan dive to the bottom.

Blech.

I don't mind that happening every so often, but it seems like every ship I fire fish at likes to break apart, too. I imagine I'm firing and hitting with enough fish to blow the hitpoints away. It might be overkill, but I like knowing the ship's going down :yep:.

And if nobody's working on getting NSM up & runnin' on 1.5, then I'm going to start taking it apart, figurin' it out, and "fixing" 1.5 out of sheer frustration. But I don't want to elevate to this level if someone smarter and more skilled than me is working on it already.

[Digital_Trucker]

I wonder if everyone know that roughly HALF of the ships are tweaked in NSM4
No american ships are included, rendering the mod useless with 1.5

Am I correct??:hmm:

Depends on what you consider useless. Those of us who don't plan on sinking any American ships will find it worthwhile.

[JREX53]

Sorry, but I would like to know if this mod(or another version) works with SH3? It looks amazing, and would be a great company to GWX2.0!
thankx

NAZ2222, this mod only works for SH4. Won't work in SH3.

[1480]

For those who have done methodical testing of NSM versions and RSRDC: Is it correct that only with NSM 4.0 will the Keel zone shots work to split a ship (break its back)...setting torp depth about 10 feet Under the keel?

If so, then if one uses NSM3.3, should one always shoot to hit the target (with torps set for Contact) rather than torps set for magnetic and set for a depth beneath the Keel?

I run NSM4. The magnetic detonator works best between 10-15 feet. I've had less prematures btn 11-12 feet. If you look at the theory of why an under the stack non contact explosion would more likely produce a "one shot one kill" then a contact direct hit has to do with how the energy is released by the chemical explosion. In a contact hit, the energy is released into kinetic (fragmentation), thermal (heat) and mechanical (shock wave). If the first two don't get ya, the third definately will. It's the third that, barring secondary explosions ie, fuel and/or ammunition, that causes the most potential for structural damage. In a large structure (ship in this case) a relatively small explosive device (Mk 14 carried only a 500lb warhead) would not normally cause an "instant" kill. Like shooting an elephant in the arse with a .38 special. Using a non-contact device where most of the energy is released mechanically in the form of shock wave. A structure is only as strong as it's weakest points, welds, the force wrecks havok if not down right failure to the joints thus causing the structures demise. If the under the keel shot does not produce the back break, the target is softened up enough that in my experience one contact hit 4 feet above the listed ship's draft before the tower or in the engine space should finish the deal. Sorry for the long post.

[Doolittle81]

I wonder if everyone know that roughly HALF of the ships are tweaked in NSM4...No american ships are included, rendering the mod useless with 1.5
...

Depends on what you consider useless. Those of us who don't plan on sinking any American ships will find it worthwhile.

With the SH4 1.5 Add-On, isn't the purpose to sail U-Boat missions....and if one doesn't shoot at Allied/American ships, what's the point of the missions? ...and what's the point of enabling NSM4? ..or 3.3, for that matter? I mean, sailing back and forth across the Indian ocean delivering supplies may be historically accurate, but exeedingly dull for a game.

[Digital_Trucker]

I wonder if everyone know that roughly HALF of the ships are tweaked in NSM4...No american ships are included, rendering the mod useless with 1.5
...

Depends on what you consider useless. Those of us who don't plan on sinking any American ships will find it worthwhile.

With the SH4 1.5 Add-On, isn't the purpose to sail U-Boat missions....and if one doesn't shoot at Allied/American ships, what's the point of the missions? ...and what's the point of enabling NSM4? ..or 3.3, for that matter? I mean, sailing back and forth across the Indian ocean delivering supplies may be historically accurate, but exeedingly dull for a game.

Well, there are things in the UBoat missions addon that affect the American career and (I hope) fix problems with the game. Since the trend will probably eventually be towards mods being created/updated for 1.5 (and any later patches) and because some of us will get it just to support the series, some of us will have the UBoat add-on, but never set foot in a Uboat. If that doesn't make it clear enough, I give up:arrgh!:

[kv29]

and why not?
I like sinking american shippings as much as japanese. oh, wait. is just A GAME....

[Fish40]

So what exactly are we saying here? NSM will not work at all in 1.5, or just on the American ships. If it's just the American ships, won't they just sink in the "stock" manner? What do I care, as long as they go down, and as long as NSM works with the rest of the ships, as it dose now. If the mod causes no adverse affects on 1.5 other than the American ships sinking in the "stock" manner, I'll continue using it until a 1.5 comatable version is available.

[theluckyone17]

I used S3D Editor to start comparing the files in NSM 4 to SH 1.5. I got as far as looking at the ...\sea\*\*.zon files. Then we ended up heading out of town (wife's got a conference in New Orleans), and I'm not going to be able continue 'til I get back Tuesday.

Plan of attack? Gawd, I'm new to modding. But I'm stupid enough to think I can do this, and I'm determined :p. I figure I'm going to start researching the old NSM thread... titled "Realistic Sinking Physics", I think. I took a bit of a look through this NSM thread, but didn't see too much in the way of details on exactly what it modifies and how it works. Once I've got an idea of what to look for, I'll start comparing the list of files changed in 1.5. I figure the easiest way will be to uninstall SH4, and reinstall... patch to 1.4, and copy the related files listed as changed in the NSM4 readme to a spare directory. Patch it to 1.5, and copy the related files to another spare directory. I'll toss the NSM4 files in a third spare directory.

Then, I'll start comparing the files, seein' what changed between the three revisions. Quite frankly, I'm not going to concentrate on the American merchant and military traffic... while I've picked up the uBoat add-on, I'm not crazy about playing as the German's in the Pacific. Maybe when there's an Atlantic campaign set up, or when the Jap traffic's been updated... but that's later. No sense in bitin' off more than I can chew.

A few questions, however... besides Malakie, has anyone installed and tried NSM4? And if someone has (or if Malakie happens to see this), does the "unsinkable" issues occur with the Japanese traffic, or just American traffic? I might just install NSM4 over my current install to play with it a bit before I try reinstalling SH4... and do some testing of my own. Kinda hard right now, until I get back in town, so I wouldn't mind some feedback if someone's tried it.

And does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for me? :sunny:

[castorp345]

does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for me?

get obsessed. stay obsessed.

:ping:

[Digital_Trucker]

and why not?
I like sinking american shippings as much as japanese. oh, wait. is just A GAME....

Been there, done that, don't feel like doin' it any more:rotfl:

[Digital_Trucker]

And does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for me? :sunny:

In order to do this, you'll need the following (my plan for when I get my add-on).

1) One stock install of the game patched to 1.4
2) One stock install of the game with the add-on.
3) Your install that you plan on using NSM with.
4) A large bottle of Jack Daniels (optional)
5) A psychiatrist (mandatory)
6) A good file comparison program (Beyond Compare is excellent)

Run the comparison program to find out what files have changed from 1.4 to 1.5
Look in NSM and see what files that are in it have changed from 1.4 to 1.5
Look at how the files changed from 1.4 to 1.5
Change all of those files to comply with 1.5 and you should be 99% of the way there.
If you're lucky, the .zon files didn't change for the vessels that NSM covers. Any vessels that were added by the addon will not have NSM .zon files (unless they are clones of another vessel) What Werner did to the .zon files was waaaaaay complicated to the average person. It involved totally restructuring the 3D zones of each ship to match reality (within reason) and model sinking based on compartment flooding instead of hit points.

The majority of the Japanese vessels will probably not need .zon restructuring. The allied vessels will. I don't know if anyone wants to attempt what Werner did all over again with the Allied vessels.

If I can get NSM 3.3 to work for the American campaign for the vast majority of vessels in the RSRD campaign (first project once I get the addon), I will be an extremely happy camper. And if I can get ROWs special effects to work with it (next step), I'll be in heaven.

[Defiance]

Hiya's,
Maybe just coincedence but now after messing it takes more than 1 fish to sink a ship

Even a large merchant listed and rolled and had a nice secondary fire before she finally sank

I merged the nsm4 zones into 1.5 lol as i say maybe just my imagination but seemed to be tougher ships once more

Ohh i run TMo 1.5 with PE and some skins etc

And obviously only ever go hunting japanese ships in TMo :)

Have Fun

Ciao

Def

[DrBeast]

And if I can get ROWs special effects to work with it (next step), I'll be in heaven.
That's the easiest step of all. What I did when merging ROW SFX and NSM was compare the two mods' Zones.cfg files. I copied over all Effect and Crush Depth values from ROW to NSM, and that was it! If memory serves, I also copied over Cargo Type values as well, when I established the fact that it's internal Cargo only that messes with the Keel Zone and the one shot-one kill contact explosion paradox, but you can omit that if you want. Heck, if I could do it I'm sure you can ;)

[Digital_Trucker]

And if I can get ROWs special effects to work with it (next step), I'll be in heaven.
That's the easiest step of all. What I did when merging ROW SFX and NSM was compare the two mods' Zones.cfg files. I copied over all Effect and Crush Depth values from ROW to NSM, and that was it! If memory serves, I also copied over Cargo Type values as well, when I established the fact that it's internal Cargo only that messes with the Keel Zone and the one shot-one kill contact explosion paradox, but you can omit that if you want. Heck, if I could do it I'm sure you can ;)

I'm pretty sure those are the same steps I went through with 1.4 and the two mods. It should be about the same with 1.5 (hopefully).

[DrBeast]

And if I can get ROWs special effects to work with it (next step), I'll be in heaven.
That's the easiest step of all. What I did when merging ROW SFX and NSM was compare the two mods' Zones.cfg files. I copied over all Effect and Crush Depth values from ROW to NSM, and that was it! If memory serves, I also copied over Cargo Type values as well, when I established the fact that it's internal Cargo only that messes with the Keel Zone and the one shot-one kill contact explosion paradox, but you can omit that if you want. Heck, if I could do it I'm sure you can ;)
I'm pretty sure those are the same steps I went through with 1.4 and the two mods. It should be about the same with 1.5 (hopefully).

***WARNING! SHAMELESS SELF-PIMPING BELOW!***

Err...you do know I have released a ROW Special Effects for NSM4 mod, right? Or are you referring to NSM3.3, in which case I should go stick my head in a big hole in the ground? :oops:

[Digital_Trucker]

***WARNING! SHAMELESS SELF-PIMPING BELOW!***

Err...you do know I have released a ROW Special Effects for NSM4 mod, right? Or are you referring to NSM3.3, in which case I should go stick my head in a big hole in the ground? :oops:

Don't go sticking your head in the ostrich hole:rotfl: , but I should have said I was talking about 3.3. I have a personal preference for it.

[DrBeast]

***WARNING! SHAMELESS SELF-PIMPING BELOW!***

Err...you do know I have released a ROW Special Effects for NSM4 mod, right? Or are you referring to NSM3.3, in which case I should go stick my head in a big hole in the ground? :oops:
Don't go sticking your head in the ostrich hole:rotfl: , but I should have said I was talking about 3.3. I have a personal preference for it.

I need something bigger than an ostrich hole to accomodate all my hair! :rotfl:

[:FI:Rabitski]

Werner.
Any ideas how to get rid of the smoke trails that seem to be following my boat around the Pacific these day's. I put a thread up about this, and the replies I got seemed to suggest the fault lay with NSM.

[baxter]

A question...was a fix ever found for the conflict between NSM4 and RSRDC?

[DrBeast]

A question...was a fix ever found for the conflict between NSM4 and RSRDC?

Nope. Werner would look into that, but he said it would require some time.

[znatan]

Can someone of the captains, pls look at my MODs here and tell me if NSM4 will work for me in the Uboat missions? For all the ships? I am not it works as it worked for me in the US missions.. I play manual targeting. Thanks for your time.

360 degree bearing plotter imperial 1.5
ROW pacific Enviroments 1.1alpha Install PE 1_1
ROW Sound Effect v_9
ROW pacific Enviroments 1.1alpha Patch for pe1_2Alpha
Spaxs SH4 Uboat SPEACH FIX_V2
Metric_Nomograph_V15
NaturalSinkingMechanics_40 light

[theluckyone17]

I don't believe NSM changed the zones on the U.S. ships... so the uBoat campaign won't be affected by those. NSM will affect some general settings, however... or so I believe. The zones.cfg file should do this. Gah. I need to get into this...

Our plane was delayed by three hours coming into Albany last night, so we didn't get home 'til late. Kinda just dropped everything inside the door, then collapsed into bed. Had the foresight to actually take my boots off, though... wife would'a killed me in the morning otherwise.

Worked until 7PM, so now that everything else is out of the way, I'm gonna uninstall & reinstall SH4, taking snapshots of the files that NSM affects at each step.

Gawl darn it, SH4 installer says the checksum's don't match. Hope it's a dirty disk...

Ok... disk is good. Got the files from 1.4 pulled. Gotta install 1.5 next...


4) A large bottle of Jack Daniels (optional)
5) A psychiatrist (mandatory)

If I bill my pysch time with Dr. Jack Daniels, you figure my insurance will cover it? :cool:

[Digital_Trucker]

4) A large bottle of Jack Daniels (optional)
5) A psychiatrist (mandatory)

If I bill my pysch time with Dr. Jack Daniels, you figure my insurance will cover it? :cool:

I believe so:rotfl:

[JREX53]

Can someone of the captains, pls look at my MODs here and tell me if NSM4 will work for me in the Uboat missions? For all the ships? I am not it works as it worked for me in the US missions.. I play manual targeting. Thanks for your time.

360 degree bearing plotter imperial 1.5
ROW pacific Enviroments 1.1alpha Install PE 1_1
ROW Sound Effect v_9
ROW pacific Enviroments 1.1alpha Patch for pe1_2Alpha
Spaxs SH4 Uboat SPEACH FIX_V2
Metric_Nomograph_V15
NaturalSinkingMechanics_40 light

Znatan,
Everything looks good except NaturalSinkingMechanics_40 light.
It is NOT compatible with 1.5. WernerSobe is still working on it.

[theluckyone17]

Woohoo! Step one completed. Didn't trust myself the first time around, so I erased everything and started from scratch. I now have three sets of files: NSM4 Classic (not gonna touch light yet), v1.4, and v1.5, using the file list from NSM4 as a guide. They all match each other in location and names.

So now I get to go sort down through the changes... and find out why the changes would make them incompatible with 1.5. Has anybody been able to definitely say why NSM4 is incompatible with 1.5? Is it just wierd ship activity, or has CTD's been occurring?

Not to get ahead of myself, too, but what problem have people been having with RSRDC, 1.5, and NSM? CTD's? Odd behavior? I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for... You modding people must have the patience of saints, I swear. To be able to have a handle on this and deal with our (sometimes stupid) questions... ack.

[Fish40]

Woohoo! Step one completed. Didn't trust myself the first time around, so I erased everything and started from scratch. I now have three sets of files: NSM4 Classic (not gonna touch light yet), v1.4, and v1.5, using the file list from NSM4 as a guide. They all match each other in location and names.

So now I get to go sort down through the changes... and find out why the changes would make them incompatible with 1.5. Has anybody been able to definitely say why NSM4 is incompatible with 1.5? Is it just wierd ship activity, or has CTD's been occurring?

Not to get ahead of myself, too, but what problem have people been having with RSRDC, 1.5, and NSM? CTD's? Odd behavior? I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for... You modding people must have the patience of saints, I swear. To be able to have a handle on this and deal with our (sometimes stupid) questions... ack.



I wa under the impression that the only real problem with NSM and 1.5 as the fact that the American ships were never tweaked to split in two when torpedoed. I mean it makes sense. Why would they need tweaking? You're not gonna sink your own ship, are you?:huh: Anyway, that's what I thought was the main deal here.

[NonWonderDog]

I added it to my install (but merged the zones.cfg edits in by hand to preseve the tweaks in Trigger Maru) and I've had no problems at all in the Pacific campaign. Everything seems to sink just like it's supposed to, although I haven't seen many merchants around Cavite.

I can't imagine why there'd be any problems, really. None of the files in question changed in the patch. The only things missing are compartment edits for the Allied ships, but those weren't in 4.0 anyway.

[WernerSobe]

sorry guys that i didnt had a chance to post here for a while. So here is the statement.

About U-Boat Missions: I dont have that addon yet, but ive been told that UBI is sending me a copy. Sofar the latest version of NSM is not compatible with the addon. Just because it only changes the Japanese ships. Not the US ships. They will sink slower since they use the same zone properties but they have the old hitpoint based damage model. Once i have the addon and some time there will be new version of NSM.


About ships breaking in half on hull impact bug: I couldnt find the reason why it happens to some. If it happens to you, the best you can do now is to disable the breaking Zone manualy. You can do that by opening zones.cfg in editor, finding [NSKeel] zone and changing CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. That will just disable the keelbreaking. Keel damage will still accur and hits below the keel will inflict more flooding then hull hits.

[Fish40]

Glad to hear from you Werner! I trust all is well at your end, and your absence was due to everyday obligations and not something more serious. :yep:

[DrBeast]

sorry guys that i didnt had a chance to post here for a while. So here is the statement.

About U-Boat Missions: I dont have that addon yet, but ive been told that UBI is sending me a copy. Sofar the latest version of NSM is not compatible with the addon. Just because it only changes the Japanese ships. Not the US ships. They will sink slower since they use the same zone properties but they have the old hitpoint based damage model. Once i have the addon and some time there will be new version of NSM.


About ships breaking in half on hull impact bug: I couldnt find the reason why it happens to some. If it happens to you, the best you can do now is to disable the breaking Zone manualy. You can do that by opening zones.cfg in editor, finding [NSKeel] zone and changing CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. That will just disable the keelbreaking. Keel damage will still accur and hits below the keel will inflict more flooding then hull hits.

Welcome back Werner! Don't sweat it, mate, Real Life always precedes. We've been patient so far, I don't think we'll go ballistic now and start protesting outside your house, demanding a new NSM version (right, guys?)! :D
Take care, catch you when you're ready :up:

[theluckyone17]

Oh, thank the Big Guy upstairs. I'm gonna hold off, now that I know Wernersobe's got a hold on it. Like I've been able to do anything with it anyways... got a sinus infection one day off the plane, and I've spent the days since staring at the ceiling then napping.

Ugh.

Anyway, thanks!

[Torps]

sorry guys that i didnt had a chance to post here for a while. So here is the statement.

About U-Boat Missions: I dont have that addon yet, but ive been told that UBI is sending me a copy. Sofar the latest version of NSM is not compatible with the addon. Just because it only changes the Japanese ships. Not the US ships. They will sink slower since they use the same zone properties but they have the old hitpoint based damage model. Once i have the addon and some time there will be new version of NSM.


About ships breaking in half on hull impact bug: I couldnt find the reason why it happens to some. If it happens to you, the best you can do now is to disable the breaking Zone manualy. You can do that by opening zones.cfg in editor, finding [NSKeel] zone and changing CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. That will just disable the keelbreaking. Keel damage will still accur and hits below the keel will inflict more flooding then hull hits.

Welcome back man! PE ROW v2 will be out soon, Row sounds v9 is out and is RSRDC compatible. TM for 1.5 is out and the only thing left is your killer mod!

Take your time btw. I just said to heck with it and I am using your none 1.5 compatible mod anyway because it adds so much to the game, cheers to you and your work.:up: once again welcome back!