[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics

[vindex]

Sometimes small ships like fishing boats are flying like 200 meters up in the air upon impact. Maybe that's why the devs wanted the suck down effect ?

You aren't supposed to use torpedoes against small craft. ;)

Great screen shot though! :up:

Hahaha! That's hilarious! Actually, if you hit a fishing boat with a torpedo, it might just go sky-high like that!

[WilhelmTell]

Hahaha! That's hilarious! Actually, if you hit a fishing boat with a torpedo, it might just go sky-high like that!

Yep, it literally blew him up in the air.:)

But the question is, would that have happened with an impulse of +3000 ?
I mean I can live with that, because one is not supposed to spend a torpedo on such a tiny target, like LukeFF said. I just wanted to show you the strange behaviour, as it seems to me no one has noticed it before.

*edit*
What goes up must come down...
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4713/flyingboatwh2.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flyingboatwh2.jpg)

[seaniam81]

The download doesn't seem to work I get this

Your download has failed. We're sorry, but the file you're trying to download is temporarily unavailable. Please check back later.

[castorp345]

What goes up must come down...
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4713/flyingboatwh2.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flyingboatwh2.jpg)


:rotfl:

'good to see that the ballistics physics seem to be working correctly...

hmmm, i wonder if orbital mechanics'd be properly represented?
anyone tried getting something to travel at c7800m/s?
what we 'need' is a goddard of sh4!
:lol:

[kikn79]

Hahaha! That's hilarious! Actually, if you hit a fishing boat with a torpedo, it might just go sky-high like that!

Yep, it literally blew him up in the air.:)

But the question is, would that have happened with an impulse of +3000 ?
I mean I can live with that, because one is not supposed to spend a torpedo on such a tiny target, like LukeFF said. I just wanted to show you the strange behaviour, as it seems to me no one has noticed it before.

*edit*
What goes up must come down...
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4713/flyingboatwh2.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flyingboatwh2.jpg)


Now what would be really funny is if you hit a plane with that!!! :rotfl:

Chuck

[billko]

[...] However impulse should be -3000 for all torpedoes. It makes ships being pushed up uppon impact instead of being sucked down.
Sometimes small ships like fishing boats are flying like 200 meters up in the air upon impact. Maybe that's why the devs wanted the suck down effect ?

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7742/nsmtorpimpactpe1.th.jpg (http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nsmtorpimpactpe1.jpg)

Nevertheless it is a great mod !

That picture brought tears to my eyes! Well, heck we don't have particle physics here so I guess instead of exploding outwards... zoom! Roman candle. ;)

Bill

[thyro]

[...] However impulse should be -3000 for all torpedoes. It makes ships being pushed up uppon impact instead of being sucked down.
Sometimes small ships like fishing boats are flying like 200 meters up in the air upon impact. Maybe that's why the devs wanted the suck down effect ?

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7742/nsmtorpimpactpe1.th.jpg (http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nsmtorpimpactpe1.jpg)

Nevertheless it is a great mod !
That picture brought tears to my eyes! Well, heck we don't have particle physics here so I guess instead of exploding outwards... zoom! Roman candle. ;)

Bill
I want that flying torpedo!!!!! :)

But was that a torpedo or a cruise missile? I reckon that must be a WWII US secret weapon :)

[mrbeast]

Has anyone tried sinking a subchaser with torpedoes? If you do just watch him leap out of the water and barrel roll 3 or 4 times before he lands!! I've seen it...twice...:o! Think something needs a tweak there. Brilliant mod otherwise.:up:

Great picture by the way I'll have to watch out for burning fishing boat shaped projectiles (or BFBSP's) in future...watch it doesn't land on your boat would be a bit of p****d off fisherman's revenge!!!:arrgh!:

[Doolan]

Hey there!

First off, amazing mod. It really adds something to the experience, removing the far-too-frequent one-shot kills in the stock game.

Something worries me though.

I've been patrolling on my S-Boat for quite a while, and so far I am happy with the sinking mechanics of mostly everything. Most merchantmen go down with two torpedoes, and destroyers have a similar behavior.

However,

a) I am yet to see a critical hit, though it might be my bad luck. While torpedoes start fires, I don't see any secondary explosions. All I get are slow sinkings by flooding, which don't seem to match what I've read in accounts (in which one-shot kills, while not half as frequent as in the stock game, were not rare).

b) Heavy cruisers. I've encountered Mogami three times so far, and I am yet to sink it. The last time, I hit it with three torpedoes, all three in different compartments, and all three causing large holes. They brought her to a stop and gave her a serious list, but she didn't go. So, I reloaded all four torpedoes and hit her again, all nicely spread and no duds. Still clinging to life.

I ended up firing every single torpedo I had on her with no result whatsoever. I agree that ships should not be as easy to sink as they were in stock SH4, but a heavy cruiser taking 11 torpedoes in different places and not going down in 24+ hours is maybe a bit extreme. The whole port side was a series of holes, salvos hit at least three torpedoes at a time in different sections...

This is with version 3.0 as included in TM 1.6.2. Has the latest version changed this? Am I the only one who finds warships a bit too tough?

Regards,

Doolan

[Wilcke]

I added Classic NSM to TM1.6.1 and yes Mogami required six torps to put her under, with three she ground to a halt and listed terribly.

Wilcke

[WilhelmTell]

[...]
I am yet to see a critical hit, though it might be my bad luck. While torpedoes start fires, I don't see any secondary explosions. All I get are slow sinkings by flooding, which don't seem to match what I've read in accounts (in which one-shot kills, while not half as frequent as in the stock game, were not rare).
[...]
You can land critical hits on ships. Though the critical chance for most compartments is set to 5-10% with the NSM mod enabled.
If you like to have more critical hits just raise the percentage for Critical Chance in the zones.cfg for certain compartments.

[Doolan]

I added Classic NSM to TM1.6.1 and yes Mogami required six torps to put her under, with three she ground to a halt and listed terribly.

Wilcke

Well yeah, six... but 11? I can only assume I had "partial" duds that didn't do full damage, but in any case with eleven torpedoes on her she's probably the luckiest ship of the Pacific.

In the training mission she took nine and ten in two separate attempts.

[WernerSobe]

im already working on next version. Ive found the issue with mogami and there will be also changes to deckgun damage.

[ReallyDedPoet]

im already working on next version. Ive found the issue with mogami and there will be also changes to deckgun damage.

Nice to hear, great mod :up:


RDP

[Theraven]

ok fixed. The ammo bunker for the deckgun was responsible for the bug when it was damaged.

use the link on first page to download the latest version 3.2

Hi WernerSobe, I do appreciate your hard work on this mod, but I notice from reading the thread people reporting this problem with the column of smoke following their ship and your fix. I have the most recent version of your mod (only started using a few days ago) and I am experiencing this problem. Any idea if something else may be causing the problem?

[Misfit138]

im already working on next version. Ive found the issue with mogami and there will be also changes to deckgun damage.

Thats great to hear! :up:

Other than the unsinkable mogami I've had lots of fun with this mod of yours

[mrbeast]

im already working on next version. Ive found the issue with mogami and there will be also changes to deckgun damage.

Is there anything you could do to tackle the flying fishing boats and barrel rolling subchasers?

Brilliant Mod, definately a 'must have':up:

[Dogster]

This Mod is F'in awsome! Thanks for your hard work

[NefariousKoel]

im already working on next version. Ive found the issue with mogami and there will be also changes to deckgun damage.

Unfortunately, I've had the experience with a couple others too. Notably a Destroyer that wouldn't go down. Just FYI.

[Rattail]

I am using the latest version and this mod rocks! Thanks!!

[chopped50ford]

I love this mod, but what version is packed in with TM 1.6.2?

[WernerSobe]

I love this mod, but what version is packed in with TM 1.6.2?

i think decimus took 3.1 light version and removed the torpedo part of it. 3.2 basicly fixed the smoke bug and he applied same changes in 1.6.2

[Theraven]

3.2 basicly fixed the smoke bug and he applied same changes in 1.6.2

I still have the smoke bug even with 3.2 :oops:

[Dogster]

Do the torpedos still have the same percentage of being dud's, deep runners, circle runners etc... ?

[WernerSobe]

Update to 3.3

Changes

reduced torpedo damage (still higher then stock)
reduced deckgun damage
reduced compartment hitpoints (still higher then stock)
increased deckgun reloading times (15sec)
rebalanced armor ratings for all ships and compartments
increased armor piercing for deckgun and torpedoes
reworked compartment layout for mogami
reworked compartment layouts for all large merchants
increased critic flotation for all compartmentsCompared to 3.2

Far less instant kills. The crews will abbandon their vessels much later, when the sinking is pretty much obvious.

Completely reworked the deckgun. It is now very accurate to historical reports. Reloading time is set to 15 sec and you will need a lot of shells to sink something bigger then a sampan with deckgun only.

Large Merchants little bit weaker agains torpedoes. 2-3 should do. Mogami now less stable and will capsize sooner.


DOWNLOAD: http://files.filefront.com/NaturalSinkingMechanics+33zip/;8540760;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/NaturalSinkingMechanics+33zip/;8540760;/fileinfo.html) (http://files.filefront.com/NaturalSinkingMechanics33zip/;8540595;/fileinfo.html)

I cant test every situation, so if you expirience something odd, feel free to post it here. If possible with a screenshot and if you can find the source of the problem post it... tnx.

[Misfit138]

Thanks for the update WernerSobe! :up: This mod has been one of my favorites for sometime already

I'm gonna tweak NSM 3.3 compatible Torpedo Hardcore Mod ASAP. Probable going to take some time cause been suffering about some nasty side-effects of my medications but the worst is over. At least I hope so!

[WilhelmTell]

Great !
Thanks for still working on it, Werner !
Getting better and better ... almost perfect.

[leovampire]

But your dedication to the mod is great thanks for all the work and updates.

[mrbeast]

Great work Werner! Will download tommoz asap.:up:

[Digital_Trucker]

:rock: Thanks for the update (and all the hard work behind it):up:

[billko]

Werner:

Thanks so much for the update! This is my favorite mod and now it's even better than it was before! :rock: :up:

Bill

[Jhereg]

Thanks Werner, I really enjoy the things your mod brings to the game.:up:

[chopped50ford]

I love this mod, but what version is packed in with TM 1.6.2?

i think decimus took 3.1 light version and removed the torpedo part of it. 3.2 basicly fixed the smoke bug and he applied same changes in 1.6.2

Thanks for the New version.

Can this be overlayed TM 1.6.2 with no effect?

[WernerSobe]

Can this be overlayed TM 1.6.2 with no effect?

you must install NSM 3.3 over TM.

[alunatic]

Do u need the previous versions of this mod for v3.3 to work? If so where are the other versions?

[switch.dota]

Update to 3.3

Changes

reduced torpedo damage (still higher then stock)
reduced deckgun damage
reduced compartment hitpoints (still higher then stock)
increased deckgun reloading times (15sec)
rebalanced armor ratings for all ships and compartments
increased armor piercing for deckgun and torpedoes
reworked compartment layout for mogami
reworked compartment layouts for all large merchants
increased critic flotation for all compartmentsCompared to 3.2

Far less instant kills. The crews will abbandon their vessels much later, when the sinking is pretty much obvious.

Completely reworked the deckgun. It is now very accurate to historical reports. Reloading time is set to 15 sec and you will need a lot of shells to sink something bigger then a sampan with deckgun only.

Large Merchants little bit weaker agains torpedoes. 2-3 should do. Mogami now less stable and will capsize sooner.


DOWNLOAD: http://files.filefront.com/NaturalSinkingMechanics+33zip/;8540760;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/NaturalSinkingMechanics+33zip/;8540760;/fileinfo.html)

I cant test every situation, so if you expirience something odd, feel free to post it here. If possible with a screenshot and if you can find the source of the problem post it... tnx.
Could you please post that in the first post of the thread? It's pretty tedious to search 16 pages for the 1.3 changelog.

[NefariousKoel]

I'm gonna give the updated version a shot. I was thinking about raising the Crit chance to increase the possibility of quick sinking too.

The only thing is.. I'd rather have the larger ships with less of a chance but it seems that the crit chance is based on zone type not on ship type am I right?

[WernerSobe]

I'm gonna give the updated version a shot. I was thinking about raising the Crit chance to increase the possibility of quick sinking too.

The only thing is.. I'd rather have the larger ships with less of a chance but it seems that the crit chance is based on zone type not on ship type am I right?

certainly it has nothing to do with how fast they sink. To make the ship weaker you would increase floatability and decrease crash depth for its compartments. Or you can make the ship less stable by moving the center of mass of every compartment away from center.

[WernerSobe]

Do u need the previous versions of this mod for v3.3 to work? If so where are the other versions?

no its standalone.

[chopped50ford]

I got it loaded. Its an awesome piece of work.

I have to get used to the reload times.

Wernersobe...by chance do you have any info to back up the reload times changes (supporting history/documentation)? It seems alot more than 15 seconds. But when your used to fast reloads...it seems longer. :ping:

I did read that they could get off up to 6 rounds per minute, but just a thought.

[NefariousKoel]

I'm gonna give the updated version a shot. I was thinking about raising the Crit chance to increase the possibility of quick sinking too.

The only thing is.. I'd rather have the larger ships with less of a chance but it seems that the crit chance is based on zone type not on ship type am I right?
certainly it has nothing to do with how fast they sink. To make the ship weaker you would increase floatability and decrease crash depth for its compartments. Or you can make the ship less stable by moving the center of mass of every compartment away from center.
Your estimated torpedoes to sink each one is fine. I'd like to see a little more parity between quick sinking and lingerers. As an easy way to go, maybe just cutting your sinking times in half which would still be a good ways higher than stock might be what I'm looking for. *shrug*

Either way, thanks for the update! Hope you don't mind me using it but tailoring it a bit more to my tastes. I'd still like to have a TM Lite as an intermediate jump between stock and the latest TM/NSM setup for those soft people like myself. :D

[WernerSobe]

I'm gonna give the updated version a shot. I was thinking about raising the Crit chance to increase the possibility of quick sinking too.

The only thing is.. I'd rather have the larger ships with less of a chance but it seems that the crit chance is based on zone type not on ship type am I right?
certainly it has nothing to do with how fast they sink. To make the ship weaker you would increase floatability and decrease crash depth for its compartments. Or you can make the ship less stable by moving the center of mass of every compartment away from center.
Your estimated torpedoes to sink each one is fine. I'd like to see a little more parity between quick sinking and lingerers. As an easy way to go, maybe just cutting your sinking times in half which would still be a good ways higher than stock might be what I'm looking for. *shrug*

Either way, thanks for the update! Hope you don't mind me using it but tailoring it a bit more to my tastes. I'd still like to have a TM Lite as an intermediate jump between stock and the latest TM/NSM setup for those soft people like myself. :D

yea sure, if you like to change something do it, as long you keep it for yourself do what you want.

if you want the ships to be weaker, i mean take less torpedoes increase the flotability. If you want them to be as strong as they are but sink faster decrease flooding time.

[billko]

I got it loaded. Its an awesome piece of work.

I have to get used to the reload times.

Wernersobe...by chance do you have any info to back up the reload times changes (supporting history/documentation)? It seems alot more than 15 seconds. But when your used to fast reloads...it seems longer. :ping:

I did read that they could get off up to 6 rounds per minute, but just a thought.

Chopped50Ford:

Believe it or not, when you are operating the deck gun in choppy waters, the performance of the PC drops enough, in some cases, to actually slow down time in the game! Try timing it in glassy water, or in map mode (non-time compressed) and you'll see it reloads much quicker. I haven't timed it that way, but I bet if you go back to the deck gun in 15 seconds real time, it will be reloaded.

Bill

[WernerSobe]

I got it loaded. Its an awesome piece of work.

I have to get used to the reload times.

Wernersobe...by chance do you have any info to back up the reload times changes (supporting history/documentation)? It seems alot more than 15 seconds. But when your used to fast reloads...it seems longer. :ping:

I did read that they could get off up to 6 rounds per minute, but just a thought.

I refer to a german book "history of submarine warfare". I read it a lot, its full of interestning facts.

Regarding rate of fire it says that US subs were capable to fire a round every 10-20 seconds. Depending on supply chain and the crew. The shells were passed from inside to the deckgun and the empty hulls back inside (they were recycled). Since there is no random factor in sh4 i decided to meet a compromise and set it to 15 seconds which reflects the average.

regarding damage there are different reports. There are reports of sinking a 1200 tons vessel with 90 rounds. And another of sinking larger cargo ship in less then 15 minutes with deckgun only which would be 60 rounds at 15 sec RoF. In NSM 3.3 you will need about 40 rounds for small ships and about 80 for large ones. These are just rough numbers, it strongly depends on were you hit them.

From my tests i have found that the most efficient way to sink ships with the deckgun in NSM 3.3 would be to nail the same compartment until it shows flooding, then switch to another compartment nearby. Spreading your shells all over the hull will basicly cost you more shells. Concentrate on one or two compartments until they start flooding and then evaluate the damage and decide if more compartments need to be damaged. Try to go for compartments that are near each other. That will increase the chance to displace the center of mass to much and may bring the ship out of balance. The compartments around center are usualy bigger and will take more water.

[switch.dota]

Okay, bug report time! [NOTE: Trigger Maru 1.6.2 + NSM 3.3 lite on top]

1. Large old Pasenger Liner (the one that looks like the Huge Liner, only a bit smaller). I've nailed one with a single torpedo, dead midships on the starboard side. The "Enemy destoryed" message popped up along with the "Torpedo Impact!" announcement. I know there are supposed to br critical hits but this was rather odd since it took half of forever to sink (I was still dodging escorts 10km away and the thing still wasn't underwater).

2. I just came across a large tanker... on radar it was limping at 5 knots but when I got closer it... stopped! Closer inspection reveals that it was submerged down to decks awash. It was my first contact that patrol and deep within Empire waters. The winds were pretty rough.

3. Minesweepers/other corvettes. They're used by tater as ASW/port patrols. I encountered an ASW patrol of two in heavy seas only to have one sink before it got within 2km and the second to limp away burning. I never came close to them. This was in the Sea of Japan.


I'm not sure if these are related to your mod, but I'm guessing they are because they seem to have to do with the damage model of those vessels. Another smaller issue is that TM 1.6.2 + NSM 3.3 Lite = ships sink FAST. Maybe I should switch to classic...

[WernerSobe]

Okay, bug report time! [NOTE: Trigger Maru 1.6.2 + NSM 3.3 lite on top]

1. Large old Pasenger Liner (the one that looks like the Huge Liner, only a bit smaller). I've nailed one with a single torpedo, dead midships on the starboard side. The "Enemy destoryed" message popped up along with the "Torpedo Impact!" announcement. I know there are supposed to br critical hits but this was rather odd since it took half of forever to sink (I was still dodging escorts 10km away and the thing still wasn't underwater).

2. I just came across a large tanker... on radar it was limping at 5 knots but when I got closer it... stopped! Closer inspection reveals that it was submerged down to decks awash. It was my first contact that patrol and deep within Empire waters. The winds were pretty rough.

3. Minesweepers/other corvettes. They're used by tater as ASW/port patrols. I encountered an ASW patrol of two in heavy seas only to have one sink before it got within 2km and the second to limp away burning. I never came close to them. This was in the Sea of Japan.



tnx for report ill look into this.


Another smaller issue is that TM 1.6.2 + NSM 3.3 Lite = ships sink FAST. Maybe I should switch to classic...

Maybe you should :arrgh!:

[Powerthighs]

2. I just came across a large tanker... on radar it was limping at 5 knots but when I got closer it... stopped! Closer inspection reveals that it was submerged down to decks awash. It was my first contact that patrol and deep within Empire waters. The winds were pretty rough.

Just a confirmation that I have seen this too. A large tanker, in heavy seas, struggling along with its decks awash. One torpedo and it sank instantly. Thanks for all your work on this.

[Seadogs]

2. I just came across a large tanker... on radar it was limping at 5 knots but when I got closer it... stopped! Closer inspection reveals that it was submerged down to decks awash. It was my first contact that patrol and deep within Empire waters. The winds were pretty rough.

Just a confirmation that I have seen this too. A large tanker, in heavy seas, struggling along with its decks awash. One torpedo and it sank instantly. Thanks for all your work on this.

I think all tankers are one shotters now. I like it though, I'm actually excited to see them and will go out of my way for them now.

[switch.dota]

I think all tankers are one shotters now. I like it though, I'm actually excited to see them and will go out of my way for them now.
It's possible to sink MOST vesseles with one torpedo. Just make sure you hit close to the aft/fore end... about 3 decals length on large merchant vessels. This translates into just below the crane-like structures most ships have. Such a shot usually is enough to sink most vessels (Mk. 14). Make sure you hit right inbetween the waterline and keel-line or directly UNDER the keel (good luck with that, seeing how 'reliable' the torpedoes usually are). I've sank everythinging short of huge liners with that method of attack.

NSM introduced a new element to SH4 - the need to consider WHERE to fire a torpedo at. Aim it midships? Fore? Aft? This is much more pronounced to damaged ships. Should you hit aft next to the damaged compartments to try and sink it by stern? Or hit on the same side fore of the command deck to try and capsize the vessel?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Just getting the new version, looking forward to trying it out. Thanks WS :up:


RDP

[switch.dota]

I vote for classic if you're used to the TM 1.6.2 version of NSM ;)

[chopped50ford]

I vote for classic if you're used to the TM 1.6.2 version of NSM ;)

I agree!

[Wilcke]

Hi Werner,

Just wanted to drop by and see if you had anymore plans for NSM?

I also wanted to get your feel for the sticking around to wait for the "ship" to sink.

I have been hunting off the West Coast of the Phillipines stalking the huge invasion fleet...playing cat and mouse with 4-5 DD's. I have managed to put torpedoes into 2 DDs and 1 Tender. Have no idea what the results were as its pretty much a "shoot and scoot", you cannot hang around to see what happened.

I am currently moving off and repositioning for another attack at dusk. The point is I will not get any tonnage credit with the current tactics. What can I do differently?

Excellent work by the way!

Wilcke

[WernerSobe]

you dont have to observe the sinking visualy.

You will score the tonnage when you are around. As long the vessel is rendered in 3d world (about 20 miles around your location) and sinks by your action you should score the kill.

In real life submarines often couldnt see the results because they had to dive away from escorts. In many cases they just heard them sinking. If they couldnt see or hear the ships sinking for sure, they assumed it was damaged even if it was sank. In some cases ships were damaged by torpedos and kept going for hours and even days before they had to be abandoned and sank by own escorts.

Now to your questions.

1. I still enjoy sh4 from time to time but its far less often now. For myself im happy with NSM 3.3 and it looks like the majority of skippers are happy too so i dont have any plans about it yet. There have been no bug reports or suggestions for long time so i guess its finished. It doesnt mean that i have abandoned it, but there is just nothing to do atm.


2. usualy it doesnt take long. Sinking can take hours but that is very rare. If you can observe the damage visualy you can evaluate if it is sinking or not. If you cannot see your victim but you know you have hit it - listen. Heavy damaged ships that are taking critical flooding usualy slow down or even stop. If its about to sink you will soon hear cracking sounds, a sure sign that a part of the ship is taking heavy flooding, in that case it shouldnt take long. If they keep going as usual then they are propebly only scratched.

[Wilcke]

Werner,

Thanks for the prompt and extensive reply. It answered my questions. I am currently back in Manila getting more Torps and will head back out to clean up all the wounded ducks I left in the water! Will be fun scouring the ocean for them!

Looks like the invasion fleet is heading North to Luzon.

Take care man, we appreciate the work you did on NSM and what it adds to the game! Just astonishing!

Wilcke

[FooFighters]

Hi WernerSobe,

I don't know if I should ask my question here or in the TM thread.
But it's related to NSM in TM, so that's why I start here.

Last night I found a nice cargo ship, put 2 torps in her.
She started to sink slowly. I wanted to increase her sinking so I start putting high explosive shells in her. This did nothing. A small explosion and some graphic holes. Thats all. No new fires or explosions after more then 40 shells.

Is this related to your mod ? or a TM thing ?
Is it possible to make the shells more evective ?

Thanks for this great mod !

Foo
:up:

p.s. I use NSM light version..

[WernerSobe]

are you using just TM or TM+NSM 3.3?

According to "History of Submarine Warfare" by Pillard shelldamage is realistic. There are reports about US Subs sinking 2000 tonns vessel with 110 shells. Of course that wasnt the rule, but you see 40 shells to a large ship is not unuasual.

It does also matter how you attack the vessel. Spreading the shells all over the hull is not effective, it will make many tiny holes in all compartments and will take forever to flood them all. Its better to concentrate on few compartments that are next to each other. Aim for same spot until it shows fast flooding there and then switch to another nearby.

Anyway, to your question. You can increase shells MinEF and MaxEF values. That will not speed up the sinking but you will need less shells for same effect. But afterall, Deckgun is not ment to be primary attack weapon agains merchants. Its more about to sink small trawlers and fishers that are not worth a torpedoe.

[FooFighters]

are you using just TM or TM+NSM 3.3?

According to "History of Submarine Warfare" by Pillard shelldamage is realistic. There are reports about US Subs sinking 2000 tonns vessel with 110 shells. Of course that wasnt the rule, but you see 40 shells to a large ship is not unuasual.

It does also matter how you attack the vessel. Spreading the shells all over the hull is not effective, it will make many tiny holes in all compartments and will take forever to flood them all. Its better to concentrate on few compartments that are next to each other. Aim for same spot until it shows fast flooding there and then switch to another nearby.

Anyway, to your question. You can increase shells MinEF and MaxEF values. That will not speed up the sinking but you will need less shells for same effect. But afterall, Deckgun is not ment to be primary attack weapon agains merchants. Its more about to sink small trawlers and fishers that are not worth a torpedoe.

Thanks, in what .dat file can I change this ?
What were the original SH4 values ?

:up:

UPDATE : I found it.. thanks WernerSobe

[Rockin Robbins]

Bump! for an indispensible mod that should be on page 1.

[AVGWarhawk]

stickied RR :up:

[Melonfish]

ooh update! yay. nice one, i LOVE this mod. this alone adds so much realism its untrue.

pete

[billko]

Some amusing things happen to the smaller boats when hit by torpedoes, but it's only because they can't disintegrate like they should. I hit a mini-sub with a torp and it went so high in the air I lost track of it and it took about thirty seconds for it to come down! Curiously, it was STILL WORKING!!! Definitely an "E" ticket ride for those inside.

Also, I blew up a docked sub chaser and it broke in half and the two halves went spinniing away, bouncing all around the dock - one hit a crane and bounced behind a building. ;)

Please understand that this is not a knock at all on this mod - the mod just reveals some game limitations, that's all. This is still on my "must have" list. It makes the top two, and I won't insult either of those mods by naming them in any particular order. This and ROW are my faves, and it's a tie.

Bill

[DrBeast]

Also, I blew up a docked sub chaser and it broke in half and the two halves went spinniing away, bouncing all around the dock - one hit a crane and bounced behind a building. ;)

Bill

Something like this? :D
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4963/sh4img201020074252437tr6.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1641/sh4img201020074317546uw6.jpg

Crappy pic quality, I know, but my rig barely meets the game's minimum requirements. :damn:

And ditto on the indispensability (did I just invent a word there?:hmm:) of this mod!

[Melonfish]

I had the most fun with this mod last night. on my way back to pearl i happened accross an enemy convoy. after giving 3 destroyers the slip i raced ahead at p-depth and turned into the convoy firing off first my forward then stern tubes! 10 torpedo's sent at a lovely unguarded convoy. unfortunatly i only hit three of my targets but i reckon as 3 torpedo's hit just the one ship i'd got her good. i went deep and waited for the inevitable depth charges but the dd's sped to meet the fleeing convoy instead and left their holed friends to my mercy.

after a while reloading i finished em off, and watched them go down. took ages too.

it was great tho, none of this, boom gone, next target. i slowed them to about 2knts each one even stopped alltogether and the rest left em behind for easy pickings. now THATS how a convoy attack should happen hehe.
pete

[billko]

I had the most fun with this mod last night. on my way back to pearl i happened accross an enemy convoy. after giving 3 destroyers the slip i raced ahead at p-depth and turned into the convoy firing off first my forward then stern tubes! 10 torpedo's sent at a lovely unguarded convoy. unfortunatly i only hit three of my targets but i reckon as 3 torpedo's hit just the one ship i'd got her good. i went deep and waited for the inevitable depth charges but the dd's sped to meet the fleeing convoy instead and left their holed friends to my mercy.

after a while reloading i finished em off, and watched them go down. took ages too.

it was great tho, none of this, boom gone, next target. i slowed them to about 2knts each one even stopped alltogether and the rest left em behind for easy pickings. now THATS how a convoy attack should happen hehe.
pete

That's the whole beauty of the mod. That, and the slower deck gun reload time makes you much less willing to dance with an armed merchant at close range. :)

Bill

[SubSuck]

Isn't this game supposed to be realistic already? What's the deal with all these realism mods?

[DeepIron]

Isn't this game supposed to be realistic already? What's the deal with all these realism mods? Not really. It's a game and it wasn't tweaked too well when it was released for accuracy or historical correctness... If it weren't for the dedication of a number of modders, SH4 would be fairly "mediocre"...

Many of us enjoy the historical realism that the mods like RFB, RSRD and tater's Campaign Levels provide along with more accurate enviromental (sky and ocean, etc) effects such as what is found in TM and ROW, to name just a couple.

Don't forget, you don't HAVE to install any mods... But I would suggest you at least install the game patches...

[Sailor Steve]

I think the emphasis in on "supposed to be". SH3 went through the same process: it's good, but it can be a lot better; and it's getting there, thanks to talented and dedicated people at both ends.

[Calbeck]

I'm with SS on this: SH4 remains the best all-time "out of the box" subsim experience. That said, every subsim ever done has had some major problems out of the box, and SH4 was no exception. Very playable, but with lots of room for improvement.

I'd say, all in all, that with the right set of mods you will easily double your gameplay value. SH3 has been so heavily modded for so long, that it is currently superior in many ways to SH4...but SH4's "top-mod" rating is catching up very quickly and promises to surpass SH3 "top-mod" rating very soon.

[DrBeast]

Thought I'd share some more funny screenshots with you, courtesy of NSM, my own home-brewed Torpedoes From Hell but also core game mechanics...

Is this fireworks?
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8136/sh4img8112007140440iu2.jpg


Nope, it's a fishing boat hit by a "supercharged" Mark14 Torpedo! I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the torpedo hit and the fishing boat vanish...so I went into free camera, heard some explosions coming from high up in the sky, looked up and...well, results are shown in the picture above :D

A few seconds later we had touchdown:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1932/sh4img81120071419296bs1.jpg



And here's one for the lovers of Synchronized Diving:
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8560/synchronizeddivingjl2.jpg

That's the front half of a Subchaser and a Destroyer. The Subchaser half had lodged itself on the Destroyer, when I torpedoed it first, only to dislodge when the Destroyer was in turn hit by a Mark 14 From Hell. Pity I didn't notice it until torpedo impact, when I saw it spin off the Destroyer!

[billko]

Isn't this game supposed to be realistic already? What's the deal with all these realism mods? Not really. It's a game and it wasn't tweaked too well when it was released for accuracy or historical correctness... If it weren't for the dedication of a number of modders, SH4 would be fairly "mediocre"...

Many of us enjoy the historical realism that the mods like RFB, RSRD and tater's Campaign Levels provide along with more accurate enviromental (sky and ocean, etc) effects such as what is found in TM and ROW, to name just a couple.

Don't forget, you don't HAVE to install any mods... But I would suggest you at least install the game patches...

I know this is quite late in this discussion, but you have to remember that this is a game, and as such, the developers tuned it more towards arcade quality than realism. I guess they felt that spectacularly exploding ships that sunk like a rock is more thrilling to watch than a ship slowly sinking for hours and then slipping quietly under. I even enjoyed watching that scenario unfold, but after using NSM, I realized it was much more satisfying to sink a ship because you used your torpedoes intelligently. Also, now if you have a dud torpedo, it ruins the torpedo attack and it's much harder to sink the ship because of it.

The fact that thedevelopers gave us the ability to make it "our" game is what really sets this game apart from most others. :)

Bill

[waldopbarnstormer]

I recently installed this mod over TM1.6.5 and ROW making sure to use the correct classic file from ROW, and everything seems great except for the deck gun and some of the physics used. As an example I have used the gunnery tutorial.

The goal of the tutorial is to sink the merchant ship with the deck gun. At the current time I have so far expended at least 110 shells 50 HE, 60 AP into the hull at close range (< 500 m) along its length (although I did focus on the bows) and I have had the resulting effect of seeing the merchant with its decks completely awash, however it still refuses to sink? According to rules physics, the ship should have sank, there is no reason why it should still be afloat and yet it is. I was begining to wonder if this ship has a cargo of cork ( I have read of a heavily damaged merchant ship that remained afloat after a torpedo attack because it did have a cargo of cork, which kept it buoyant).

Having a knowledge of physics the shear weight of water entering the ship would have dragged it down and once it reaches the deck the water would rush in through open hatches and holes, thereby flooding the unbreached sections. Have you modelled this effect in your mod?

As the deck gun causes many little holes rather than one big hole it could be considered to be more effective in causing flooding as each shell which penetrates the hull would flood that section, a torpedo unless it causes catastrophic structural failure, may only flood one section. So 10 shells can breach 10 compartments without the need to use a valuable torpedo, even though 1 torpedo may have more destructive power than 10 shells.

There is also the matter of increased structural loading on the hull as the weight of water increases from flooded compartments. As seen in the sinking of the titanic, as the forward compartments flooded, they dragged the bow under, however the unflooded rear compartments remained buoyant on the surface. This put a tremendous amount of bending force through the pivot point, and so just as if you would bend a rule, it can take only so much before structural failure occurs and the ship splits in two. I guess implementing this action is not possible within the current game engine.

Finally I would like to consider secondary explosions. You have tried to replace the hit point system with a system based around flooding and buoyancy, but does this account for secondary explosions causing structural failure after the fact. Secondary explosions are often more fatal because they not only breach bulkheads and create more flooding, they also compromise structural integrity of the hull. I believe that the hitpoint system can be modified to represent "hull integrity" rather than the ships life force.

Example if using your work on flooding and stability, the hitpoint system was reworked so that a ships hitpoints would only decrease due to actual hull damage, say for example everytime it was hit by a shell or a secondary explosion or decreased slowly over time due to increased bending forces on the hull, I think this would allow for an accurate and realistic sinking model that not only took into account the effects of flooding on causing a ship to sink, but also on the effects of hull damage.

[mrbeast]

If you read the first page of the thread it describes that NSM works by replacing hit points with flooding. The ship in question probably would have sunk but it might take a long while. How long did you wait? In RL some ships took days to finally go under others sank in less than a minute.

There are a vast number of factors which affect the way that a ship sinks and NSM simulates the sinking of ships fairly authentically IMO. The game engine doesn't model all of them so the stress place on the hull of a ship at the point it rears ot of the water is in all probability not modelled either. It must also be remembered that the Titanic was an exceptionally large and heavy vessel compared to most of the merchants that where encountered, so I think her sinking should not be taken as and average example of a ship sinking. Would the amount of stress be the same at the pivot point of a shorter vessel? Just because the ship doesn't sink the way you expect it to doesn't mean that there is neccsarily a problem with NSM.

Are you suggesting that 10 DG shells are a more effective way of sinking a ship than 1 torpedo? Have you ever seen the size of the hole that a torpedo hitting a ship creates?

These are exapmles of shell holes, remember the DG on a US sub was either a 3, 4 or 5 incher:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9988/800pxolegcruiseryh5.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7479/libertybridgeea9.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7636/yaluchenyuenindockdamagal2.jpg


These are photos of torpedo damage:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5651/wnbr650mk23hobartpicyu1.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5493/southlandphoto2lgeiu9.jpg http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7534/alhena4tk1.jpg

[waldopbarnstormer]

sorry you misunderstand what I was trying to say because I did not say it very well. The damage created by a single torpedo is huge as shown by your pics, and I am not contesting the point that it takes many shells to sink a ship, unless you get lucky like the Bismark did on the Hood, but what I was trying to say was that in my particular case the merchant ship was hit with over 100 shells along the water line and hull, the ship looking like a swiss cheese along one side with 5 large holes from the bow to just underneath the bridge. The bow up the superstructure was under water and yet it stayed afloat for about 1 hour. I then decided to hit the stern of the ship until the deck was under water along its entire length but again it did not sink for about another 1/2 hour, when I got bored and started pumping shells into the bridge, when it finally capsized. The whole process took about 2 hours game time.

On the deck of the ship were two large cargo holds front and rear with large hatches, both of these should have been full of water once the deck was under the surface and the ship should have sank quite quickly, as another example in the quick mission battle of Samar I watched single Fletcher class destroyer take on 4 battleships and 2 destroyers including the Yamato, being pounded remorselessly for about 20 minutes before it sank, it RL I think that destroyer would have been a burning wreck and blown to bits within 5.

Imagine taking holes for a deck gun from those pictures and putting them inside the hull of a ship, you would have lots of little holes flooding many compartments, far too many to patch up with damage control teams and too much flooding to handle with pumps, if the ship is split into a forward and rear hold, engine room and fuel bunkers, and crew quarters, as soon as the hold had been flooded the ship should have negative buoyancy and sink. Maybe I am wrong and the ship has many more compartments than I think and I only hit the ones along the edge of the ship and the ones in to the centre were not flooded so it remained afloat, but I doubt that is the case.

What would be helpful is knowledge of how NSM calculates speed of flooding, and how many zones each ship has and where they are located. Then I could come up with a more informed assesment and conceed that the shell effect modelling is accurate.

[Doolittle81]

...
Anyway, to your question. You can increase shells MinEF and MaxEF values. ...

Thanks, in what .dat file can I change this ?
What were the original SH4 values ?

:up:

UPDATE : I found it.. thanks WernerSobe

I could use a little help finding the MinEF and MaxEF values....thanks.

[Doolittle81]

bump...

[panthercules]

I'm not sure which mods have wound up touching the same things here, so maybe something else has changed the basic NSM, but I have not had any problem sinking a couple of freighters with my 4"/50 deck gun on this latest patrol (running RFB 1.31 swdw update, then NSM classic, then ROW (with zones for NSM classic), then RSRD for RFB1.31). The 6,000 tonner took about 80-100 shots, and the 1,800 tonner took about 40-60, but both eventually sank fairly quickly (I kept firing till they sank - it's quite possible that they would have sunk with fewer hits if I'd wanted to stick around and wait to see, but they were both daylight encounters and I didn't want to risk waiting around and getting surprised by some aircraft or escorts wandering by.

I have seen this sort of lingering death occasionally before, with decks awash seemingly forever, and it seemed to me a little odd that it would take that long for a ship to sink once it reached that point. Maybe it would be good if something could be tweaked further to speed things up a bit once a sort of "tipping point" was reached, but I don't think that it's the deck gun shells that are the problem at this point, at least in my current setup.

[gimpy117]

can this be done in sh3 as well??

[Laffertytig]

just an observation here but im of the opinion that maybe torps seem overpowered with this mod. every merchant ive sank so far has taken no more than 2 torps and has resulted in the ships back breaking and then sinkin in a few seconds.

wasnt ships sinkin this fast and in this way the exception, not the norm. dont get me wrong, it sure looks cool but for it to happen everytime just seems off.

im runnin ROW (inc ROW classic zones special effects), RFB and of course NSM classic and NSM 3,3 hardcore torp mod bein installed last. RSRDC is installed last but this shouldnt affect your mod right?

[DrBeast]

im runnin ROW (inc ROW classic zones special effects), RFB and of course NSM classic and NSM 3,3 hardcore torp mod bein installed last. RSRDC is installed last but this shouldnt affect your mod right?

It will affect only the ships added by RSRDC, as in they'll keep stock game sinking behavior. Also, if you find sinking ships too easy with this mod, delete the US_Torpedoes.zon file from the mod's Data\Library folder. Goes without saying that you'll have to disable the mod first, then delete the file, then enable the mod again ;) Oh, I said that? Well, better safe than sorry :D

[Laffertytig]

the US_Torpedoes.zon file from what file i might add old boy? i looked in the RSRD folder but that file aint there

[DrBeast]

the US_Torpedoes.zon file from what file i might add old boy? i looked in the RSRD folder but that file aint there
Sorry, my bad. From NSM. I think Hardcore Torpedoes Mod only affects US_Torpedoes.sim.
The reason the ships from RSRDC will be unaffected (and retain their stock game sinking behavior) is, their .zon file hasn't been altered the way NSM alters all other ships' .zon file.

[Laffertytig]

so what if i installed nsm and the hardcore torpedo mod last then? would this do the trick? or should i just delete said file from nsm?

[DrBeast]

No matter how you install them, the RSRDC ships will be unaffected. If you find the torpedoes overpowering, delete the US_Torpedoes.zon file from NSM before installing it.

[letterboy1]

MrBeast, those are excellent photos you posted. From time to time I considered going to the lite version of NSM, but seeing those examples certainly adds to the authenticity of the NSM mod. Thanks. I'll be sticking with the classic version.:up:

[BaronDeKalb]

Just wanted to say i installed this MOD for my first campaign, and i think its great...
i really like this mod, it makes more sense to base sinking off flooding
dmg of course than just hit points (what was the name of that huge German Battleship) the pounding that thing took was incredible before it sunk)

Also i have found that if anything ships sink faster now (although im running the lite version, :hehe:) i also installed the correct ship size mod and that has really seemed to hel a lot with my hit ratio, i couldnt hit a barn before it...)

It still took a good hour to sink a 10ton merchant with 3 fish in her i just barley made it back up to see, note i think you also get credit for the kill if you click on the sinking ship icon on your map, anyways thats when it updated my log...

Thanks for such a great mod... What happens when a new patch is released in
general here, do all the mod creaters have to recheck each time for compability,
just wondering as i havnt been here very long...



One other quick question, Does NSM also change the way the player's ship takes dmg ? And does this have any affect on the Damage Control System ?

Baron...

[LukeFF]

One other quick question, Does NSM also change the way the player's ship takes dmg ? And does this have any affect on the Damage Control System ?
No. Read the first post for what the mod does.

[black1]

Can someone explain the difference between the light version and the classic version please thank you.

[LukeFF]

Can someone explain the difference between the light version and the classic version please thank you.

Again, your answer can be found in the first post of this thread.

[Doolittle81]

In the first post in this thread, it says:
...every file in this mod is critical. So installing mods over it and overriding conflicts will basicly break entire damage system. So make sure you install NSM last to be on sure side.

This runs contrary to all the other guidance i have seen with rgard to installation, which have said to install NSM first/early, then later do the ROW mods and RSRD Mod, etc etc

What is correct installation order?

[letterboy1]

In the first post in this thread, it says:
...every file in this mod is critical. So installing mods over it and overriding conflicts will basicly break entire damage system. So make sure you install NSM last to be on sure side.

This runs contrary to all the other guidance i have seen with rgard to installation, which have said to install NSM first/early, then later do the ROW mods and RSRD Mod, etc etc

What is correct installation order?

When it comes to installing NSM and ROW, you will install NSM or NSM Lite first and then the corresponding ROW Special Effects version. Doing so will retain Werner Sobe's NSM file changes because Leovampire used those to incorporate into his ROW Special Effects. If you do it the other way around, you will still retain the NSM properties but you will lose whatever changes Leovampire made for his ROW Special Effects.

[DrBeast]

Looking at the files changed in patch 1.4...zones.cfg is among them. Also, WernerSobe has been AWOL as of late. Damn.

[Radioshow]

I have NSM and ROW on V1.4 and only noticed low sitting troop transports.
I did have a Takao HC go down with one torp although there were lots!! of secondary explosions (hit right in aft gun section). I put 2 torps into another Mogami and Takao and both stayed afloat with Mogami having a mild list. Destroyer's took 1 torp to sink usually(took a while though) although they show no damage when hit with "Influence"(switch works!!) torps. So NSM does seem ok so far although more testing is needed.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3605/sh4img20071128002201656bv9.th.png (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img20071128002201656bv9.png)

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9038/sh4img20071128002219234ba4.th.png (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img20071128002219234ba4.png)

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8025/sh4img20071128002245343ts7.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img20071128002245343ts7.jpg)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9348/sh4img20071128002540640gx4.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img20071128002540640gx4.jpg)

[ryanwigginton]

Hope we can get WernerSobe back in to check on his mod. :yep:

If he's been away for some time it might be worth sending him a PM.

[WernerSobe]

im sorry guys i havent been playing sh4 for a long time. I heard about the patch 5 minutes ago...

of course im going to port NSM into 1.4 but that will take a while. First i will need to check out what has changed and where. From the first look at the patch details i disadvise using NSM 3.3 with 1.4. It might work but remember its based on files from 1.3 so if NSM files are affected by the patch there might be problems.

atm im taking a closer look at the patch.

So far, if you have installed NSM 3.3 over 1.4 already and have expirienced bugs. Please report them here.

[letterboy1]

I only just started a patrol with NSM 3.3 and a few graphics-only mods, but no other gameplay mods. I'll let you know if anything pops up.

[WernerSobe]

tnx. its possible that some ships wont be sinking.

[Fincuan]

I did a quick comparison between the files that were changed by the patch and the files that NSM adds, and NSM would overwrite only a few ships .zon files... AND Zones.cfg :)

[ryanwigginton]

There's reports of troop transports sitting very low in the water. I've read this one a couple of times in other threads.

[letterboy1]

Well, I hit a medium modern European composite last night with three fish and got the "Enemy Unit Destroyed" almost immediately after the third torpedo hit. Other than water without ROW sucks, nothing to report.

[WernerSobe]

same from my tests. looks like it works without problems.

I have ran md5 hash compare on changed files between both installations and figured that only zones.cfg is affected. But that is not a problem since zones was entirely rewritten.

so NSM should be working on 1.4 as it did on 1.3. There might be interactions with other patch features so ill need to run more tests to confirm it 1.4 compatible.

[ReallyDedPoet]

same from my tests. looks like it works without problems.

I have ran md5 hash compare on changed files between both installations and figured that only zones.cfg is affected. But that is not a problem since zones was entirely rewritten.

so NSM should be working on 1.4 as it did on 1.3. There might be interactions with other patch features so ill need to run more tests to confirm it 1.4 compatible.

Thanks WS, look forward to this :up:


RDP

[Wilcke]

im sorry guys i havent been playing sh4 for a long time. I heard about the patch 5 minutes ago...

of course im going to port NSM into 1.4 but that will take a while. First i will need to check out what has changed and where. From the first look at the patch details i disadvise using NSM 3.3 with 1.4. It might work but remember its based on files from 1.3 so if NSM files are affected by the patch there might be problems.

atm im taking a closer look at the patch.

So far, if you have installed NSM 3.3 over 1.4 already and have expirienced bugs. Please report them here.

Werner

Hello, been awhile hope all is well.

Wilcke

[letterboy1]

Great news, Werner Sobe! So even if you do have to make any adjustments it will likely be minor. I will "squeeze my thumbs" (as you say it in Germany).

By the way Werner Sobe, are you by any chance from Bavaria?

[WernerSobe]

Great news, Werner Sobe! So even if you do have to make any adjustments it will likely be minor. I will "squeeze my thumbs" (as you say it in Germany).

By the way Werner Sobe, are you by any chance from Bavaria?

god no :-)

im from frankfurt.

[quadraspleen]

god no :-) im from frankfurt.

Lol - Is there something wrong with Bavarians? :) Are they yokels?

[WernerSobe]

god no :-) im from frankfurt.
Lol - Is there something wrong with Bavarians? :) Are they yokels?
yea hehe

the rest of germany is making jokes of bavarians. I guess its because they are so typicaly german i dont know. Every foreign tourist is somehow connecting germany with bavaria.

you know its like you would define americans by cowboys from texas ;-)

[mrbeast]

god no :-) im from frankfurt.
Lol - Is there something wrong with Bavarians? :) Are they yokels?
yea hehe

the rest of germany is making jokes of bavarians. I guess its because they are so typicaly german i dont know. Every foreign tourist is somehow connecting germany with bavaria.

you know its like you would define americans by cowboys from texas ;-)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

In my first year at university there wes a German medical student living in my halls and I asked him about Bavarians and ladehosen etc (not sure of the spelling;) ) and he laughed and said,

'Most Germans think they (Bavarians) are like those American people who come from the hills'

I said 'what? Hill-Billys'?

He said 'Yep those are the ones'! LOL! :lol:

[DeepIron]

you know its like you would define americans by cowboys from texas...
That's a perfectly good point of view from a Texan too... Just ask G.W. Bush.... :lol:

[castorp345]

scheissbollen

bayern ist nicht so schlimm!

:88)

[baxter]

Thanks WernerSobe for looking into making NSM 3.3 compatable with 1.4...I love this mod!

[letterboy1]

Heh heh, no offense Werner Sobe:lol: . It's hard to identify a German accent in your English (from your tutorial) . . . so I was off by quite a few kilometers. But no, I don't have that preconcieved notion about Germans that you mention. I lived there for over 15 years and got a pretty good view of the country and culture during that time (70s and 80s). On many a Saturday afternoon I saw a TV show called "Am Blauen Bock" (lots of Volksmusik). On Fridays I watched "Disco '77" mit Illja Richter. On Saturdays "Am Laufenden Band" mit Rudi Karell. On Tuesdays "Dali Dali" mit Hans Rosenthal, on Thursday "Der Grosse Preis" mit Wimm Toelke. Mainzelmaenchen, Das Aefchen und das Pferd, Barbapapa, Biene Maia, Das Feuerrote Spielmobiel, Rappelkiste . . . und so weiter.

[CodyLang]

Does this mod support 1.4?

And Will I have to start a new campaign if I install it? Thanks!

[ReallyDedPoet]

Does this mod support 1.4?

And Will I have to start a new campaign if I install it? Thanks!

WS is working on making it compatible :yep:


RDP

[WernerSobe]

youve heard bavarian accent in my vedeos? :rotfl:

[WernerSobe]

Does this mod support 1.4?

And Will I have to start a new campaign if I install it? Thanks!

1. not officialy yet still testing. But theoreticaly there shouldnt be problems. Havent seen any sofar.

2. No, but you must load your campaign in port.

[CodyLang]

got ya,so you mean With the currently campaign im on...i'll just be at the port next time I load it with your mod?

[WernerSobe]

you must save your campaign when in port before you istall the mod. Otherwise problems may accur

[letterboy1]

youve heard bavarian accent in my vedeos? :rotfl:

Yes! :lol: Here, see if you can sing this:

Mia hamms vom Sauerkraut, die Bratwurscht wurd verklaut
Und wer sich so was traut, der gehoert verhaut

[ryanwigginton]

youve heard bavarian accent in my vedeos? :rotfl:

As a side note... I thought your AFS tutorial was excellent. I was hardly using the sonar until I watched it, now I go to the sonar station at some point during most attacks.

[padualima]

This is mod is a must-have. Thanks WernerSobe

[WernerSobe]

1.4 approved!!!


Attention: Mod works on 1.4 no files but zones.cfg were touched by the patch. It can be installed on 1.4 and will work as intended. Just one flaw: Dont try to aim at large ships under the keel. When the mod was released influence detonators didnt work so damage to the keel is not modeled. I am not going to change it in this version. Instead i have started working on entirely new version that will take that in account among other new features.

[ryanwigginton]

Instead i have started working on entirely new version that will take that in account among other new features.

Excellent news!

[CodyLang]

excelent news indeed!

[Schultzy]

scheissbollen

bayern ist nicht so schlimm!

:88)

...wenn man in Österreich aufgewachsen ist! :lol:

[Vilcek]

1.4 approved!!!


Attention: Mod works on 1.4 no files but zones.cfg were touched by the patch. It can be installed on 1.4 and will work as intended. Just one flaw: Dont try to aim at large ships under the keel. When the mod was released influence detonators didnt work so damage to the keel is not modeled. I am not going to change it in this version. Instead i have started working on entirely new version that will take that in account among other new features.

I have tried the NSM 3.3 on 1.4 patch but have problems. I wsa trying to sink a small old ship hit it 3 times with a torpedo and make about 5 holes in his hulk,the ship was half under water but still not sunk so I think it is not working on1.4.:damn: :damn:

[Laffertytig]

what does the hardcore torp mod do and are people using it along with nsm? does it simply make torps less reliable? if this is what it does doesnt rfb and tm do the same things.

the read me doesnt explain anything about it

[WernerSobe]

yes this sums it up. It makes early war mk14s fail in about 70%. Historicaly mk14s were flawed in the beginning. Sometimes boats returned home without tonnage because all their torpedoes has failed.

[WernerSobe]

I have tried the NSM 3.3 on 1.4 patch but have problems. I wsa trying to sink a small old ship hit it 3 times with a torpedo and make about 5 holes in his hulk,the ship was half under water but still not sunk so I think it is not working on1.4.:damn: :damn:


have you hit different spots? as i have said in readme - you must hit a ship in different compartments. Hiting an already flooded compartment will not make it flood more.

[fireship4]

what is the ETA on the new version? I imagine the new keel damage system will take a bit of work - are you planning to model breaking a ships back?

I will be happy to test, but first I have to RMA my motherboard.

[WernerSobe]

what is the ETA on the new version? I imagine the new keel damage system will take a bit of work - are you planning to model breaking a ships back?

I will be happy to test, but first I have to RMA my motherboard.

there is no deadline it takes as long it takes. but dont expect it in the next few days. It is indeed a lot of work.

[Fish40]

what is the ETA on the new version? I imagine the new keel damage system will take a bit of work - are you planning to model breaking a ships back?

I will be happy to test, but first I have to RMA my motherboard.
there is no deadline it takes as long it takes. but dont expect it in the next few days. It is indeed a lot of work.




Werner, take as long as you need bud. I'm still useing 1.3, until I get the word that all the mods I use are 1.4 OK. Basicly use ROW, NSM, RFB for ROW, and RSRD for RFB. RFB and RSRD are good to go, bet since Leo is still recooping from his procedure and has not had a chance to look over his mod with 1.4, and you're working too improve your NSM, I could wait. I would rather install all the correct, up to date mods at once.:yep:

[WernerSobe]

@fish youre missing alot. The 20km visibility is awesome. First time we can use our advantage of seing ships before they see us. All your mods should be running on 1.4 btw...

[WernerSobe]

I have keel damage working.

To my surprise, it hasnt been modeled in stock game. You can now use magnetic detonators but they dont actualy do more damage then normal hull hit. Ive found a way however how to cast a devastating explosion underneath a ship and rip it in two. Its awesome, you will love it ;-)

[bruschi sauro]

This mod work very well:up:
Job well done mate:rock:
many thanks:know:

[Fish40]

I have keel damage working.

To my surprise, it hasnt been modeled in stock game. You can now use magnetic detonators but they dont actualy do more damage then normal hull hit. Ive found a way however how to cast a devastating explosion underneath a ship and rip it in two. Its awesome, you will love it ;-)



Werner, just to be clear, you're still working on this or has a new version been released?

[LukeFF]

Werner, just to be clear, you're still working on this or has a new version been released?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=709136&postcount=382

[letterboy1]

Just want to join the cheering section and let Werner Sobe know that I'm looking forward to his next NSM version. I even promise to stop singing Bavarian Bier drinking songs.;)

[fireship4]

Cool Werner. When you say that a magnetic detonation does no more damage than a normal one what do you mean? I guess it would be hard to get a keel shot with a contact torpedo no? Can this even be done.

Will you be able to break the keel in different places or just the centre?

Does the mod affect how your sub responds depth pressure in any way?

Also I don't know if this is relevant but http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/51657-25-explosive-force

[Fish40]

Werner, just to be clear, you're still working on this or has a new version been released?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=709136&postcount=382




Didn't mean too sound like a moron:damn: I know Werner said it was gonna take time, but it seemed like he made quicker then expected progress. My apologies for the misunderstanding;)

[rascal101]

I hope I'm not repeating anything that has already been said, from other comments in this thread I understand there is a new version of NSM on the way, if this is the case FANTASTIC!!

My Question

Would it be possible for the next version of NSM to be compatable with RFB, RSRD, TM and ROW, I mean all of them, I love each of these and am hoping to combine the lot to make one big mod for those of us who like our games as real and challenging and visually stunning as we can get.

I know I want it all, but well.... I do

R

[Fincuan]

It's already compatible with at least TM, RSRDC and ROW. I think, but am not sure, that it's also compatible with RFB. RFB, however, is not and most likely will never be compatible with TM since they change a LOT of same files.

[WernerSobe]

Cool Werner. When you say that a magnetic detonation does no more damage than a normal one what do you mean? I guess it would be hard to get a keel shot with a contact torpedo no? Can this even be done.


Yes but im using a trick. Ive extended the keel zone so it sticks out of the ship few feets (you dont see it its just a virtual zone). Ive made it weak and selfexplosive so if a torpedo detonates below the ship it will in most cases break it in two.


Will you be able to break the keel in different places or just the centre?


Yes but it seems to break more likely in the middle even if you hit somewhere else. But i have seen nose and tails breaking off in my tests.




Does the mod affect how your sub responds depth pressure in any way?


No i wont touch sub damage system in next version.


Would it be possible for the next version of NSM to be compatable with RFB, RSRD, TM and ROW, I mean all of them, I love each of these and am hoping to combine the lot to make one big mod for those of us who like our games as real and challenging and visually stunning as we can get.


Yes it will be compatible with TM RSRD and ROW. I dont know about RFB but should also be compatible.

[WernerSobe]

check out NSM4 preview on keel dmg

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2886715


We can now use magnetic detonators but they are basicly useless because stock game does not simulate keel damage correctly. NSM 4 will give you that feature.

How it works...

All cargo ships and the escorts can be destroyed by setting the torpedo depth about 5 feet below registered draft. That will cast a devastating explosion below the keel and in most cases break the vessel in two.

Every ship has its weak point were it is notedly weak. If you can set an explosion right under that weak point, the ship will most likely break appart. But even if you cannot hit the weakspot, an explosion under the keel will always cause heavy flooding, damage the hull structure and immobilize the ship.

Capital warships however are much more robust. You will still make more damage by hiting their keel but that will not be as catastrophic as agains merchants or small escorts.

To make it not to easy, the torpedoes will be less realiable at depth keeping. If you want a sure hit you better go for the hull. If you want maximum damage but at risk of deep runner passing underneath the target then keel is best choice. You have to decide.

[Seadogs]

Very impressive, will be watching this!

[ryanwigginton]

Sounds great. Just wondering WernerSobe... is it possible to have ships destroyed by the fires on deck becoming out of control. With the previous NSM, on a few occasions I watched ships sail away with what appeared to be the entire deck on fire. It's just wrong.

When we see a raging fire like that in SH4 would be best if either:
a) The flames eventually subsided, or
b) We see the crew abondon ship to escape the flames. (and not necersarily flooding)

I'm not a modder but I appreciate the stuff you do is complex... is it possible to implement this better?

Looking forward to the new version. I'm a big fan and won't play SH4 without it.

[mrbeast]

Looking at that video, is it now possible to effectively blow the sterm/bow off ships?

If so is this damage always fatal, I've seen plenty of photos of ships minus bows or stern or both and still afloat.

[Wilcke]

Looking at that video, is it now possible to effectively blow the sterm/bow off ships?

If so is this damage always fatal, I've seen plenty of photos of ships minus bows or stern or both and still afloat.

I guess it would depend on how big the ship is and how its compartamentalized? Single hull, double hull...etc....it depends on what SH4 is capable of modeling and what the modders can do with it......but it is a great idea.....I am sure Werner can shed some light on this.

Werner,

Just saw the video, looks great, you just keep coming up with more new stuff!:up:

Wilcke

[WernerSobe]

is it possible to have ships destroyed by the fires on deck becoming out of control. With the previous NSM, on a few occasions I watched ships sail away with what appeared to be the entire deck on fire. It's just wrong.
Well fires itself are just eye-candy. They appear when a certain effect zone has taken a certain amount of damage. What i can do is making the sensor zone cause heavy but slow flooding. So in example when big fire effect is triggered it starts adding flooding very slowly and after few hours sink the ship. That should work but cant say for sure. Anyway thnx for idea.

Looking at that video, is it now possible to effectively blow the sterm/bow off ships?

If so is this damage always fatal, I've seen plenty of photos of ships minus bows or stern or both and still afloat.

No, every ship has its "breakpoint". Some ships break in the middle others lose their bow another tails but its hardcoded. There will be two kinds of keelzones. There is a "weakspot"-zone right under the breakpoint and normal keel zones. If you hit the weakspot under the breakpoint it will cause fatal damage and break the ship. Hiting other keelzones will stop the ship and cause heavy flooding but will not break it. The weakspot is pretty large you dont have to aim very accurate. You can be off by 20 feet and it will still trigger.

No, when ships break they take fatal damage. This is hardcoded.

[Dutch]

Well its dissapointing to know stock doesn't include this. But I'm glad you've taken on the task good luck and godspeed! I am greatly looking forward to it.

I put two underneath an aircraft carrier and it was dead in the water after about 20 minutes so I finished it off with my aft tubes. I must have gotten lucky or something lol.

[Doolittle81]

I feel good. Even Werner uses Auto targeting sometimes! :D

[WernerSobe]

I feel good. Even Werner uses Auto targeting sometimes! :D

yea when you have to sink 500 ships to find out how they work, it saves time.

[fireship4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV8MF-440xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwm5CxtEcI0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkUu2NR6t7M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vh0BsSaQM4&feature=related

Any use?

btw are you able to fix the range at which magnetic torps explode from ships? its two small methinks

[jazman]

I feel good. Even Werner uses Auto targeting sometimes! :D

yea when you have to sink 500 ships to find out how they work, it saves time.
You are ace. That is true Donkey Work, and we thank you. Normally it's a thankless task, but I'll make an exception this time. :)

[WernerSobe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV8MF-440xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwm5CxtEcI0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkUu2NR6t7M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vh0BsSaQM4&feature=related

Any use?

btw are you able to fix the range at which magnetic torps explode from ships? its two small methinks

Tnx for the videos. And yes i am working on detection range but this is hard to balance. I know that germans have set they torpedoes to go 3-7 meters below the keel. Magnetics in SH4 work only at about 5 feet maximum. Thats obviously not realistic.

Its hard to balance because i will also need to increase the effective radius of explosion. And that might be a problem with contact detonators. Big radius can also affect the weak spot under the keel even if you hit the hull. But im working on that.

[WernerSobe]

Im need help from someone who has expirience with modding the visual effects. In zones.cfg effects are trigered with something like #oil_explosion

I need to know where these effects are defined because i want a huge water fontaine generated when the keel is hit.

[ryanwigginton]

Im need help from someone who has expirience with modding the visual effects. In zones.cfg effects are trigered with something like #oil_explosion

I need to know where these effects are defined because i want a huge water fontaine generated when the keel is hit.

I'm just guessing here, but with an explosion directly underneath the boat I wouldn't expect a huge fountain (as with a side impact). Surely the mass of the ship would suppress much of the blast from reaching the surface. I would expect the pressure to be sent more sideways either side of the hull, rather than directly up into a fountain. :hmm:

Great vid by the way.

[linerkiller]

Great news Werner....i'm waiting for NSM 4 now:D

If I can give you an idea, tweak a bit the battleship torpedo damage, because i cant think that a Kongo battlecruiser can stand FIVE mark-14 explosion sailing away with only a small list....USS Sealion sank one of the four kongos with two or three of the four torpedo fired and she went down within 20 minutes!
Apart from that episode, ALL the battleship sunk by submarine torpedoes in WW2 sank after 2 or 3 hits ( Royal Oak, Barham, Kongo) because they all were old,
( modern battleships like yamato and scharnhorst are another case )
I think that this factor should be implemented in this mod

[Brenjen]

I think it's great that you guys enjoy helping the community at large with your mods. If it weren't for the better gauges from oakgroove, TM from Ducimus, all the people who've worked on ROW....this great mod from you & all the other great tweaks Silent Hunter wouldn't be half as enjoyable as it is. Keep up the good work; if I had owned this series longer I would be glad to help out with testing (I still am but I know there are others more qualified to do it) so for now all I can say is THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU! :up: You guys deserve a big thank you; so there you are......you also deserve one from Ubi-soft for keeping people interested in their product.:yep:

[mrbeast]

Werner, now that we have keel damage, how does this affect ordinary torpedo hits impacting the sides of a ship? Is it more likely to break apart than before?


BTW, linerkiller, love your sig:up: very nice, WWI Koenig class BB?

[Doolittle81]

.... love your sig:up: very nice, WWI Koenig class BB?


Looks like a Derfflinger Class to me... not a Koenig. [I cheated, sorry ;)]

[WernerSobe]

Werner, now that we have keel damage, how does this affect ordinary torpedo hits impacting the sides of a ship? Is it more likely to break apart than before?


BTW, linerkiller, love your sig:up: very nice, WWI Koenig class BB?

No, ive balanced the keel and main flooding zones agains torpedo maximum effect range. The keel zone can only be hit when the torpedo literely explodes below the ship. One must be carefull though. I have increased detonation range for magnetic pistols too. So you can set them about 15ft below the keel. However you must set them at least 10ft below or they may explode to early.

[Peto]

No, ive balanced the keel and main flooding zones agains torpedo maximum effect range. The keel zone can only be hit when the torpedo literely explodes below the ship. One must be carefull though. I have increased detonation range for magnetic pistols too. So you can set them about 15ft below the keel. However you must set them at least 10ft below or they may explode to early.

That's a good thing as it was historically a problem. When skippers began going for contact hits the Mark VI would often detonate them early, giving the impression of hits. There are many examples where this happened.

Your work is Very Impressive Werner :up:

[linerkiller]

.... love your sig:up: very nice, WWI Koenig class BB?


Looks like a Derfflinger Class to me... not a Koenig. [I cheated, sorry ;)]

yeah!:up: derfflinger battlecruiser with 1917 tripod mast. look here
http://german-navy.tripod.com/

[Hawk_345]

Amazing work, downloading it now

[tater]

Very interesting stuff, werner. Looks great as always, can't wait.

[Galanti]

Biting my nails waiting for this one, WS. I won't touch 1.4 until this out as 20km is worthless to me if I can still sink the Shokaku with 1 torp in 20 seconds. I was hoping to make do with TM's embedded NSM, but it seems to have been ripped out in the latest versions.

[brandtryan]

Can't wait to try this one! Thanks Werner!

[ryanwigginton]

Any news WernerSobe? How's she progressing?

[bertle]

Isa class battleships are very hard to sink. In fact I found it impossible without hitting all down one side, going under it, and then hitting along the other side of it. It seems to need all compartments on both side hit before it'll even think about sinking.

Not as important but nethertheless immersion breaking is the fact that this makes it invincible to other ships and planes, they're just not accurate enough and don't know that they have to hit every compartment so other than random chance of a critical hit (which seems very very very very very rare) it can just rip through anything.

I had no trouble sinking the Yamato but the Isa ships won't sink other than under editor conditions (IE i've set myself up to hit it with electric torps, it's on its own and not moving).

I must say, however, that this mod is by the far the most important mod for this game. I simply can't play without it.

[bertle]

Also it might be an idea to look into why the North Carolina class appears to be covered in explosives. Seriously the ship takes even a tiny bit of damage you get 4 or 5 fireball effects which you see very rarely using this mod, but with this ship you get 4 of them along the length of it. It then sinks in seconds. Something very wrong with it.

[CaptainHaplo]

Werner, if there is any testing or such that I can do to help just let me know. Great work to date mate!

[WernerSobe]

Werner, if there is any testing or such that I can do to help just let me know. Great work to date mate!

not at the moment thank you. The new version exposed to be more work then i thought and i cannot spend so much time on it as before. So the progress is slow but its moving.

[Wilcke]

Werner,

Happy Holidays!

[leovampire]

Werner, if there is any testing or such that I can do to help just let me know. Great work to date mate!

not at the moment thank you. The new version exposed to be more work then i thought and i cannot spend so much time on it as before. So the progress is slow but its moving.

And Merry Christmas as well!

Dave

[enigma-e]

Yeah, happy holidays, Werner! Und einen guten Rutsch! ;)

[letterboy1]

Werner, version 3.3 will be good enough until you can finish up version 4. Enjoy the Christmas season down there in Bavaria. (just kidding :rotfl: )

[CaptainHaplo]

Werner - MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

[Turbografx]

Hey guys,

I just started using the "light" version of this mod and it seems now that my torpedoes will just not reload, I waited 48 hours once with crew at BS and once stood down and on neither occasion did any of my torpedoe tubes reload.

Any idea whats causing this/how I can fix it? I'm running 1.3 btw.

P.S. I love the intentional effects though, sinking ships has never been more fun!

BTW: Merry Christmas everyone, happy hunting.

[cdrsubron7]

Just wondering if the NSM 3.3 Classic can be used with the new updated ROW mods for the v1.4 patch?

[CaptainHaplo]

Turbo - make sure your guys are not all asleep and that the efficiency is high enough. I haven't seen this problem so I dont know what is causing it otherwise.

Cdr - NSM 3.3 is compatible with MOST of ROW - however the special effects ROW mod is NOT NSM compatible as it changes some zones to get its effects.

[cdrsubron7]

Turbo - make sure your guys are not all asleep and that the efficiency is high enough. I haven't seen this problem so I dont know what is causing it otherwise.

Cdr - NSM 3.3 is compatible with MOST of ROW - however the special effects ROW mod is NOT NSM compatible as it changes some zones to get its effects.



Thanks for the reply, Capt. Would it be possible not to use the special effects ROW mod and use the NSM 3.3 instead?

[letterboy1]

cdsubron, one possible solution for you (temporarily) is to use "ROW Classic Zones Special Effects V_3" along with "NSM Classic 3.3" until Werner Sobe and Leovampire are back in synch again. You can still use all of the other 1.4 compatible ROW parts. So far it's caused no problems for me.

[cdrsubron7]

cdsubron, one possible solution for you (temporarily) is to use "ROW Classic Zones Special Effects V_3" along with "NSM Classic 3.3" until Werner Sobe and Leovampire are back in synch again. You can still use all of the other 1.4 compatible ROW parts. So far it's caused no problems for me.


That's a great idea, letterboy. I only have version 2 on my computer, would you know of somewhere I could find v3 to download?

[letterboy1]

cdsubron, check your PM.

[leovampire]

cdsubron, one possible solution for you (temporarily) is to use "ROW Classic Zones Special Effects V_3" along with "NSM Classic 3.3" until Werner Sobe and Leovampire are back in synch again. You can still use all of the other 1.4 compatible ROW parts. So far it's caused no problems for me.


That's a great idea, letterboy. I only have version 2 on my computer, would you know of somewhere I could find v3 to download?

I have turned it off in the past and forgot about it.

[letterboy1]

No problem Leo, I got him a copy of version 3.

[cothyso]

I would need one too, pretty please. thanks.

[letterboy1]

Cothyso, check your PM.

[cothyso]

got it, thanks.

any news regarding NSM 3.4? i can hardly wait.. :)

[letterboy1]

Actually, I think Werner said it will be version 4 that will be next because it involves a big revamp to include keel damage.

[Xypher]

hmm, i dont know why... but destoryers in my current game are indestructable. i am dancing around with one as i speak pumping shell after shell into its side. it wont fire back, but hey im not complaining at the moment it has god mode turned on!

i have at least 3 fish that impacted into one of its sides but no listing, no smoke, and no visable damage. usually when i throw a torp and it hits a destroyer... its game over for them.

im using only two mods, NSM and ROW... thats it but they just wont go down!

(update) out of ammo and out of fish, and im running out of fuel. i have resorted to using my AA gun, i have FIVE hits on it now with torps and its almost like the crew is laughing at me by slowly ramming me to death. i find this odd because it was a totally new career and a fresh install of the game. no tampering of any kind but the mentioned mods... damn this sucks

[WernerSobe]

hmm, i dont know why... but destoryers in my current game are indestructable. i am dancing around with one as i speak pumping shell after shell into its side. it wont fire back, but hey im not complaining at the moment it has god mode turned on!

i have at least 3 fish that impacted into one of its sides but no listing, no smoke, and no visable damage. usually when i throw a torp and it hits a destroyer... its game over for them.

im using only two mods, NSM and ROW... thats it but they just wont go down!

(update) out of ammo and out of fish, and im running out of fuel. i have resorted to using my AA gun, i have FIVE hits on it now with torps and its almost like the crew is laughing at me by slowly ramming me to death. i find this odd because it was a totally new career and a fresh install of the game. no tampering of any kind but the mentioned mods... damn this sucks

it doesnt show any damage and its not firing back? Never seen that, maybe a bug...
in nsm 3.3 destroyers shouldnt survive more then 2 torpedoes. The deckgun is useless though. Its supposed to kill small wood boats that are not worth a torpedo. Besides Minesweapers and Tugboats you cannot penetrate armor with that.

Update on NSM 4

Merchants ready. Working on warships. In comparison to 3.3 all ships will be easier to sink. There will be keel damage. All merchants (except large passenger liners) and escorts can be broken in two.

i am experementing with fires. Im trying to make them cause damage. But i dont promise. Its possible to make the fires add extra flooding and simulate the damage effect. But this cannot be stopped. When a fire is triggered it will never stop. There must be a decission. Either fires sink the ships after a certain amount of time, leaving them no chance to survive. Or they just add little flooding leaving them a chance but will keep buring after the damage has been done.

What do you think?

[CaptainHaplo]

Werner,

Great news on NSM4 - we all appreciate the update! You do some really great work!

Now if I understand what your wanting to know - should fire mean an ship that is going guaranteed to sink? No. I would have fire add a small amount of damage and be done. Realistically, fire is as dangerous as flooding to a ship (HMS Sheffield is an example) but if the engine won't allow various fire effects, its best to limit them on the conservative side in my view. Let fires do some additional damage, then let them just either burn out or be eye candy.

The only way I can see fire being a "guaranteed" sinking is if you can make fire so hard to create that it means the ship is doomed anyway. Not sure if thats doable. Plus - if a fire means a sunk ship - then tankers are going to be way to easy to sink!

Again - great news Werner, and if I can help just let me know!

[Galanti]

Merchants ready. Working on warships. In comparison to 3.3 all ships will be easier to sink.

Hmmm...how much easier to sink? Do you mean with numbers of hits, or in terms of locations of hits. I never had a problem with the damage model with 3.3 and I hope we don't go back to the days of sinking Shokakus with one hit.

As far as indestructible destroyers go, I've never ever, not with stock, not with any mod, not with my own DM tinkering, seen a destroyer survive more than two hits, and 99% of the time one is more than sufficient. I think what some players are witnessing are prematures, or one of the game's ways of simulating duds. IIRC some people have performed tests that prove just that...fish detonating just feet away from the target.

But I eagerly await the finished product, this mod (along with RSRD or Tater's work on campaign layers) is an absolute must have. Stock DM (and campaign layers) is a joke, a silly nod to console gamers.

[Digital_Trucker]

Just my $0.02, but I agree with CaptainHaplo about the fire. While it would be nice to see some increase in damage due to fires, I don't think a fire should doom a ship.

I, too, hope the ships aren't too easy to sink. I enjoyed the frustration of the occasional non-sinker and the thought process that went along with what to do about it (i.e hang around and wait, throw another fish in the fire, blast away with the deck gun,.....)

Thanks for the update, Werner, and all the hard work behind it!:up:

[Xypher]

my personal torment continues as for some reason its only destoryers that have this damn immunity to full salvos of torps. attempting a full reinstall to see if it fixes my problem. the other ships sink wonderfully though, and i cant wait to see the new version with all its goodies.

[Radioshow]

Make sure your torps are set to contact as well. I have had many a torp look like a hit but it detonated close and not against the hull. No visible damage, Destroyer just keeps on truckin, specially when torp is near the bow. I set torps to contact and almost every hit was crippling. Remember the contact/influence switch works now.

[Xypher]

i tried mixing it up just last game, 4 hits two magnetic and two direct contact. the contacts left gaping holes, but no change beyond that. it stopped for a moment i for a secongd i thought it was done for... but it was just looking for me... DC right on my tower... try ANOTHER full reinstall.

[Wilcke]

i tried mixing it up just last game, 4 hits two magnetic and two direct contact. the contacts left gaping holes, but no change beyond that. it stopped for a moment i for a secongd i thought it was done for... but it was just looking for me... DC right on my tower... try ANOTHER full reinstall.

That might be the solution...!

I have not run NSM since 1.4 patch, but I am looking forward to it, Werner! The 1.4 patch, I believe did some changes to the sinking mechanics. I have had DD's limp off with a torp in the stern, decks awash but out of the fight. The other day off Burma I had one DD get slow in front of my sub; and he caught one midships and literally disintegrated, he was underwater in 20 seconds.

Werner, bit of fire damage OK to add to flooding, other than that its all good, the keel will be a very nice addition. Again, thanks for all the hard work! Will sure give it a thorough thrashing when you release the mod!:up:

[Xypher]

nah the solutions were fine i keep them as low on the target as possable while still avoiding using magnetic... i hate explosions with no results. But the solid hits that would NORMALLY sink a DD in swiftly or split it in half just did... nothing.

after the second reinstall things worked out, one torp in the bow and she looked like she was trying to be a submarine, DIVE DIVE!

[BillyBubble]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe
There must be a decission. Either fires sink the ships after a certain amount of time, leaving them no chance to survive. Or they just add little flooding leaving them a chance but will keep buring after the damage has been done.

What do you think?
If there is NO way for randomness of "destructive" fire, i'd definately opt for #2 - little flooding with a chance(=random?) to survive.

Thanks for that great mod, Werner :up:

[WernerSobe]

Hmmm...how much easier to sink? Do you mean with numbers of hits, or in terms of locations of hits. I never had a problem with the damage model with 3.3 and I hope we don't go back to the days of sinking Shokakus with one hit.

numbers of hits. If you go for the keel you can sink almost any merchant with a single hit. Ill add challange to it though making the torpedoes less reliable at depth keeping. So you will be risking a deep runner when going for the keel. Ive also reduced the toughness for large merchants, they are only slightly stronger then medium ones. Two fish, maybe three should kill them.

The warships will reamain very strong compared to merchants. They will also have a keel damage model but it wont be so devastating. You will not be able to kill something bigger then a destroyer with a single keel hit.

Now let me explain the problems with fires...

Fires are just "ghost-compartments" above real compartments. They are basicly doing nothing but playing a fire aniation when they suffer a hit. But they act like other compartments too, they can be set up to reduce buoyancy or in other words they can be flooded.

The fire itself is just an animation. It never stopps once triggered.

Making them doing just a little extra flooding doesnt make much sence. You wouldnt know when the ship sink by fire. Virtualy its just another compartment. You could also just increase the flooding parameters for the real compartments for same effect...

Another problem is that there is no random factor on fires. It will always trigger when fire effect zone has been hit. So everytime you hit a certain ship at a certain location there will be fire.

Actualy I have serious doubts if adding flooding to effect zones is a good idea.

[fred8615]

numbers of hits. If you go for the keel you can sink almost any merchant with a single hit. Ill add challange to it though making the torpedoes less reliable at depth keeping. So you will be risking a deep runner when going for the keel.
I think patch 1.4 has already done that for you. I'm getting a lot more misses that appear to be going under the target than I used to using contact and half the target draft for depth setting.

[Snuffy]

numbers of hits. If you go for the keel you can sink almost any merchant with a single hit. Ill add challange to it though making the torpedoes less reliable at depth keeping. So you will be risking a deep runner when going for the keel.
I think patch 1.4 has already done that for you. I'm getting a lot more misses that appear to be going under the target than I used to using contact and half the target draft for depth setting.

Yep, since I put 1.4 in ... I've noticed that hits that would normally have impacted are now underrunning targets.

[ryanwigginton]

If the ships deck is covered in flames it should be doomed. Chasing down an evading fireball is just wrong.

I take it you can't make the fires less likely. If you could the solution would be reduce the chance of fire right down, but make it deadly if triggered.

[Xypher]

you could allow the fire to set off explosives if the ship is carrying that kind of cargo. for warships it could prevent the crew from preventing flooding in that compartment. you can make a mechanic where the fire spreads and grows IF it has fuel for it to grow until the crew is forced to abandon ship.

but i think im talking about adding a whole new mechanic to the game here...

[jdkbph]

I don't think a fire should doom a ship
Plenty of examples of that happening... the loss of USS Lexington (CV2) being fairly typical. In fact, with warships, it's quite as common - if less spectacular (read, notable) - as catastrophic explosion or hull failure. The only type of damage resulting in loss that may surpass fire is asymetrical flooding.

That's not to say I think progressive damage due to fire is critical in this game... but it wouldn't be out of place if a way was found to implement it.

JD

[LukeFF]

I don't think a fire should doom a ship
Plenty of examples of that happening... the loss of USS Lexington (CV2) being fairly typical.

Sounds like it:

However, enemy planes penetrated the American defenses at 11:00, and 20 minutes later Lexington was struck by a torpedo to port. Seconds later, a second torpedo hit her portside directly abeam the bridge. At the same time, she took three bomb hits from enemy dive bombers, producing a 7 degree list to port and several raging fires. By 13:00, skilled damage control had brought the fires under control and restored her to an even keel; making 25 knots (46 km/h), she was ready to recover her air group. Then suddenly Lexington was shaken by a tremendous explosion, caused by the ignition of gasoline vapors below, and again fire raged out of control. At 15:58, Captain Frederick Carl Sherman, fearing for the safety of men working below, secured salvage operations, and ordered all hands to the flight deck. At 17:01, he ordered "abandon ship" and the orderly disembarkation began.

(From Wikipedia)

[trebby]

Servus Werner,

I am looking for an active link to the TDC videos I read about. I did some digging, even at your homepage *sehr gut* but could not find any....
The comments were very good:rock: so would be dankbar if you could link me up...

Vielen dank, Trebby



Edit: Then some more diggin and I found them!!! Thanks for these exellent tutorials.
I finally try 100 pct, after being long focussed on the modding part. The game is getting so good with all the mods I finally want to fully enjoy it!

[Wilcke]

numbers of hits. If you go for the keel you can sink almost any merchant with a single hit. Ill add challange to it though making the torpedoes less reliable at depth keeping. So you will be risking a deep runner when going for the keel.
I think patch 1.4 has already done that for you. I'm getting a lot more misses that appear to be going under the target than I used to using contact and half the target draft for depth setting.

...agreed, failure rate at 75% to 80%, preemies, deep runners...you name it....frustrating to no end( I like it this way)...hope it is historically corrected in later war years...can anyone confirm Yes or No on this issue.

[399nkov]

since installing 1.4 I've also noticed deep-runners in almost all torps. I've made adjustments, but do not try keel hits anymore. :cry: I'am in mid to late '42 and started using contact hits 100% of the time. I get my share of duds, but missing a beautiful three shot spread due to deep-runners on a Yugumo DD (is it new to the game:-? ) is irritating to say the least. Testing I finally had to set torps to run as high as possible and finally got them to sink her with two hits.
Earlier I sank two Takao Heavies on patrol NW of Surabaya,one with two hits and the other with one hit to the stern. Torps were set to run shallow on, contact. I play at 80%. I like the view. They had pounded a poor Brit Freighter and sank her. Pay Back.
Is that for real? I guess it could have really happened.
At this time I'am testing in this order, RSRDC_P2-v200, NSM 3.3 Lite, and almost all the latest ROW Mods plus others. If anyone can see a problem with this set of mods and the effect on torp settings please advise.

Happy New Year to everyone and to all modders, keep em' coming. In my humble opinion, It makes SH4 so much better. :up:

USS SEACAT (SS399) One of many Boats, Ships, and Planes in Toyko Bay
in Sept. '45, Show of Power Display.:yep:

[WernerSobe]

The reason why you feel like there are more deep runners is that the detonation range for magnetic pistols is realy small. Its only about 5 feet. Before the patch you were not trying to hit the keel so you couldnt see when the torpedoe was one or two feet below the set depth. But the chance for the deep runners remained they didnt changed it.

In NSM 4.0 however you will have much greater detonation range. You will set your torpedoes 10-15 feet below registered draft. A failure of one or two feet will not be noticable. Therefor the failure range must also be increased.

[rascal101]

HI to all and Happy New YEar, been watching this thread for a while now, just wondering if there is an updated ETA on the new version.

This is by no means a complaint or hurry up, simply curious to know a rough ETA. I have re installed my SH4 with the patch, ROW, RSRD and RFB, and the game is working fine.

But I miss NSM, I understand the previous or last version of NSM is not compatable with one or more of the above so I have been playing without it. It's OK but I'm really getting the sh....ts with unloading about 150 amour piercing and high explosive rounds into basic merchent, only to have it run rings round my sub and speed off into the distance!

And this despite 100's of direct hits above and below the waterline with my deck gun. OK a deck gun was not a one hit wonder, but neither was it a pop gun.
I hope you can better simulate deck gun damage, it must accumulate with sucessive hits and fires must kill crew and damage infrastructure. And hits below the water line must eventiually cause a ship to sink, or at least flood, list and/or slow down.

Thanks for all your great mods, you and the various other moders have made SH4 a great game.

R

[Travis Reed]

I've had indestructible DDs (and the occasional merchant) even with NSM. They tend to be rare though. Last one I had took my entire torp load and, although the ship had no plating left below the water line on his starbaord side, he kept going as if nothing was wrong...DCing me the whole time...

[rascal101]

Re deep runners, while it drives me nuts, the frequency compares with what I've read, so while it drives me nuts Im happy not to change this. US torps were crappy and the ingame frequency is accurate. I heard of one skipper who sent 4 torps in succession into one merchant and all four were duds, one after the other.

One thing I would like to know is did the US eventually work it out or were their torps unreliable throughout the war. I know the Germans had teething problems at the begginning but got their act together comparatively quickly. Havnt seen a circular runner yet, I thought this was quite common.

The reason why you feel like there are more deep runners is that the detonation range for magnetic pistols is realy small. Its only about 5 feet. Before the patch you were not trying to hit the keel so you couldnt see when the torpedoe was one or two feet below the set depth. But the chance for the deep runners remained they didnt changed it.

In NSM 4.0 however you will have much greater detonation range. You will set your torpedoes 10-15 feet below registered draft. A failure of one or two feet will not be noticable. Therefor the failure range must also be increased.

[399nkov]

The reason why you feel like there are more deep runners is that the detonation range for magnetic pistols is realy small. Its only about 5 feet. Before the patch you were not trying to hit the keel so you couldnt see when the torpedoe was one or two feet below the set depth. But the chance for the deep runners remained they didnt changed it.

In NSM 4.0 however you will have much greater detonation range. You will set your torpedoes 10-15 feet below registered draft. A failure of one or two feet will not be noticable. Therefor the failure range must also be increased.

Thanks Werner for you input. Looking forward to NSM 4.0 and will most likely switch from lite version to classic, which I haven't tried yet.
3.3 ain't bad, I just viewed a beautiful Takao roll over and dive. To be sure of a hit I fired four torps at 10ft setting, contact, 2hit, 2 missed, she went down in 10 minutes in a blaze of glory.
I love this mod.

[LtHavoc]

Re deep runners, while it drives me nuts, the frequency compares with what I've read, so while it drives me nuts Im happy not to change this. US torps were crappy and the ingame frequency is accurate. I heard of one skipper who sent 4 torps in succession into one merchant and all four were duds, one after the other.


Eventually, in fall 1943. The Mark XIV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo) on Wikipedia.

[clayp]

I have been reading thru this thread(now I'm cross eyed) what other mods will this work with..I have TM,RSRD and ROW..Can I use this?

[Lopo]

I have been reading thru this thread(now I'm cross eyed) what other mods will this work with..I have TM,RSRD and ROW..Can I use this?

Yes, you can... I'm using it with the same mods as you. I install NSM just after TM.

[Travis Reed]

Speaking of torp problems, I'm wondering why it is that I'm out on patrol...

I sight a target, move into position, etc. Line everything up to make it a good, clean shot. Sometimes dead on, sometimes glancing (slightly). I'm in the beginning of the war, so I set to 0 depth (as close as the game allows anyway...) due to faulty depth keeping and disable the magnetic influence pistol due to it being faulty. With everything set I shoot 1-2 torps spaced at least 10 sec apart. I've watched using the external view as they either run under, or bounce off. If I should choose to enable the influence pistol, they invariably explode before reaching the target... And yes, they'll even run under deeper draft targets... As a matter of fact I just wasted half my torp load on a small freighter...and didn't save that patrol...

Maybe I should throw rocks, as it might be slightly more effective?

[baxter]

I miss using NSM and I'm looking forward to ver. 4.0. I'm now running 1.4 with TM, RSRDC and some of ROW, all of which is great but I miss NSM (which I had when I was running 1.3) every time a torpedo hits a ship.

[clayp]

:D I have been reading thru this thread(now I'm cross eyed) what other mods will this work with..I have TM,RSRD and ROW..Can I use this?

Yes, you can... I'm using it with the same mods as you. I install NSM just after TM.


Thank you....

[black1]

Hello werner any news on new mod, looking forward to it, I know it will be ready when ready but just curious mate, thanks.

[LukeFF]

If I can give you an idea, tweak a bit the battleship torpedo damage, because i cant think that a Kongo battlecruiser can stand FIVE mark-14 explosion sailing away with only a small list....USS Sealion sank one of the four kongos with two or three of the four torpedo fired and she went down within 20 minutes!

Well, yes and no. Kongo was indeed hit and sunk by two torpedoes, but her damage control team initially contained the flooding, with the ship holding a 12-degree list. It was the decision to maintain cruising speed that doomed the ship, as the onrushing water widened the torpedo holes. So yeah, ~5-6 torpedoes should do in a Kongo every time.

[WernerSobe]

I miss using NSM and I'm looking forward to ver. 4.0. I'm now running 1.4 with TM, RSRDC and some of ROW, all of which is great but I miss NSM (which I had when I was running 1.3) every time a torpedo hits a ship.

the current NSM 3.3 version can be used with 1.4 and the mods above. it can bite with RFB but should be compatible with ROW, TM and RSRDC.

I cannot give you an ETA atm. Adding keel weakspots requires a complete compartment rework. It may take a while to find the right balance.

[Travis Reed]

it can bite with RFB

What exactly do you mean by this?

[WernerSobe]

it can bite with RFB
What exactly do you mean by this?

I have never tried RFB but as far as i know it has more ships in roster which i havent adapted into new damage system. They will swim but they may show odd behavier.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks for your contiued work on this WS :yep:


RDP

[Nico71]

I have never tried RFB but as far as i know it has more ships in roster which i havent adapted into new damage system. They will swim but they may show odd behavier.

Any chance that NSM 4.0 will be RFB compatible, then?

[baxter]

Thanks, Werner...I didn't realize I could run NSM 3.3 with version 1.4 and my mods. That will be a big improvement and make it easier to wait for NSM 4.0.:up:

[fireship4]

there was another mod which included the fact that (at least early war) torpedos set on contact would not go off unless they hit at a glancing angle. Something about the trigger mechanism being crushed maybe. If i remember you could avoid this by setting them to slow. Will 4.0 have this?

Secondly, do the torps do more damage to the keel the nearer to it they explode?

[CaptainHaplo]

Fireship,

Unless Werner really makes some changes to the torps - damage has a radius effect - at the center of the radius is where the most damage is applied - as the distance from the center increases, damage is reduced. This is how the game currently works - whether using NSM or not. I don't know that its something that can be changed as its likely hardcoded. With that said, the closer the keel is to the torp when it goes off, the more damage is going to be applied to the keel zone or zones in the area of effect. Hope this helps.

[sqk7744]

Thanks Werner! :up::up::up:

[Notewire]

Werner,

I am sure you have answered this 100 times - but how does the newbie go about adjusting the MinEf and MaxEf of the deck guns? I haven't been able to find the values in the files - or maybe I am missing the parent program needed to adjust the .zon and .sim files?

Thanks for the help,
Notewire.

[CaptainHaplo]

Notewire - either the program Minitweaker (with requisite tweakfiles) or Silent 3ditor will work to mod these. I advise Silent 3ditor as it gets you more info and is easier to get all that you need.

[WernerSobe]

there was another mod which included the fact that (at least early war) torpedos set on contact would not go off unless they hit at a glancing angle. Something about the trigger mechanism being crushed maybe. If i remember you could avoid this by setting them to slow. Will 4.0 have this?

Secondly, do the torps do more damage to the keel the nearer to it they explode?

1. no its not possible. the pistols and torpedo speed are defined in different files and there is no connection between both.

2. no. You either hit the keel or you dont. The keel zone is not "inside" the ship it is a virtual zone that is under the ship. You can only hit the keelzone when the torpedo literely explodes under the ship. If it does, it will always be critical.

[fireship4]

Thanks for the reply Werner. If I have time I may try to dig up the thread where I read the information on the pistols being crushed.

[black1]

Hello Werner any news on your great mod 1.4?

[Wilcke]

Hello Werner any news on your great mod 1.4?

...patience grasshopper...all in good time...waiting is Grok.

[black1]

True master.

[sevn_up]

Not sure if anybody has run across this bug yet. When you torpedo certain ships such as the different liners, a few seconds after the explosion, the ship will just disappear. For example, I found an ocean liner cruising around. I torpedoed the ship close to the bow. Once the explosion occured, it acted like a critical hit because both smoke stacks blew off. Then the entire hull disappeared, showing the internals of the ship then just disappeared. Another good example is the liner that is in the quick mission. I can torpedo that ship as well and after a few seconds the ship just disappears. It doesn't show as a kill either. Has anybody come across this yet?

[WernerSobe]

Not sure if anybody has run across this bug yet. When you torpedo certain ships such as the different liners, a few seconds after the explosion, the ship will just disappear. For example, I found an ocean liner cruising around. I torpedoed the ship close to the bow. Once the explosion occured, it acted like a critical hit because both smoke stacks blew off. Then the entire hull disappeared, showing the internals of the ship then just disappeared. Another good example is the liner that is in the quick mission. I can torpedo that ship as well and after a few seconds the ship just disappears. It doesn't show as a kill either. Has anybody come across this yet?
This can only happen when you set a zone to be destructable. There are no destructable zones in NSM files, so i suppose you have a conflict with another mod.

Have you been editing the zones.cfg or have you overwritten it with zones.cfg from another mod?

[M. Sarsfield]

I haven't followed this thread for weeks, so forgive my ignorance. Is anyone here using NSM with Trigger Maru? I think Ducimus incorporated some NSM features into TM, but I no longer remember the details. Thanks.

[Lopo]

I haven't followed this thread for weeks, so forgive my ignorance. Is anyone here using NSM with Trigger Maru? I think Ducimus incorporated some NSM features into TM, but I no longer remember the details. Thanks.
Hi,

I used NSM 3.3 with TM 1.75+RSRD 221+ROW but I have had a bug "smoke on water" (see post #1446 on http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115258&page=73) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115258&page=73%29)... and according to Ducimus, I disable NSM 3.3. What a pity!

@WernerSobe

Would NSM 4 be totally compatible with TM 1.75?

[Grein]

Hi all!

First of all: Thanks for the mod, I really enjoy it!

I'm using TM 1.75 and NSM 3.3 classic.

I'm currently commanding a Narwhal class boat, added by TM. That boat, as you know, has 2 deckguns. I had a large old split freighter, whom I hit with 2 fish in the front, took heavy water and kept going @ 2 knots. So I surfaced, closed in and started shelling it. I gave it ~120 shells, didn't sink, then I ran out of ammo. I think, after 120 shells, it should have sunk.


Then there was this escort carrier, whom I hit with 3 fish, 2 at the bow, 1 at the stern. Took also heavy flooding and kept going at 6 knots, the task force pulled away and I came up again and needed 8 more fish, spread over the whole hull, to make him go down. Ain't that overdoing it a bit? :lol:

Another fleet carrier went straight down after 4 hits, for comparison.

[billko]

Hi all!

First of all: Thanks for the mod, I really enjoy it!

I'm using TM 1.75 and NSM 3.3 classic.

I'm currently commanding a Narwhal class boat, added by TM. That boat, as you know, has 2 deckguns. I had a large old split freighter, whom I hit with 2 fish in the front, took heavy water and kept going @ 2 knots. So I surfaced, closed in and started shelling it. I gave it ~120 shells, didn't sink, then I ran out of ammo. I think, after 120 shells, it should have sunk.


Then there was this escort carrier, whom I hit with 3 fish, 2 at the bow, 1 at the stern. Took also heavy flooding and kept going at 6 knots, the task force pulled away and I came up again and needed 8 more fish, spread over the whole hull, to make him go down. Ain't that overdoing it a bit? :lol:

Another fleet carrier went straight down after 4 hits, for comparison.

Are these regular occurences? I use NSM 3.3 classic also and only occasionally had tough ones like that. In about 90% of the cases with large freighters, for example, I use 2 torpedoes, one at the bow, one amidships and they usually eventually go down even without help from the deck gun.

I find that I have the most success concentrating my attack either fore or aft on one side, starting from one end and working my way in. The idea is to flood many adjacent compartments, unbalancing the ship. For medium to large ships, two torpedoes usually does the trick. For anything bigger, I'll use four. I usually choose fore because I find it easier to lift the props out of the water than to hit the engine compartment to stop the ship.

Good hunting!

Bill

[sevn_up]

Not sure if anybody has run across this bug yet. When you torpedo certain ships such as the different liners, a few seconds after the explosion, the ship will just disappear. For example, I found an ocean liner cruising around. I torpedoed the ship close to the bow. Once the explosion occured, it acted like a critical hit because both smoke stacks blew off. Then the entire hull disappeared, showing the internals of the ship then just disappeared. Another good example is the liner that is in the quick mission. I can torpedo that ship as well and after a few seconds the ship just disappears. It doesn't show as a kill either. Has anybody come across this yet?
This can only happen when you set a zone to be destructable. There are no destructable zones in NSM files, so i suppose you have a conflict with another mod.

Have you been editing the zones.cfg or have you overwritten it with zones.cfg from another mod?
Actually after investigating the problem, I believe I found out what the problem is. I believe it is because I have the special effects installed for ROW. I guess there is no way to get better flames, oil slicks, etc while using NSM. Will there be a fix soon so that torpedoes can explode underneath the keel on the bigger ships?

[WernerSobe]

NSM 4 will be awesome.

Unfortunaly i have not as much time for it as before. I have a lot of exams to be prepared for and thats on top of my priority list now. But i do invest as much time as i can into NSM4 so please be patient. I just dont want to release a half finished mod. So be patient and keep the heads up ;-)

[DrBeast]

It's a shame really to not be able to use ROW and NSM as the situation stands. Hopefully, some kind soul will remedy that...perhaps after certain exams are out of the way (hint hint nudge nudge) ;)
Oh, now that I mentioned exams, best of luck with yours, WS! :up: