[REQ] SH4 Air Mod

[AkbarGulag]

As many of you have felt, the aircraft traffic in SH4 stock is fairly insane. After looking about there are some great MOD's that change or alter the way the games aircraft layers and the machines themselves work. Unfortunately all these MOD's also alter a lot more and they all seem to remove map contact updates. If you are like me and don't want to spend 4-5 hours looking for one ship, then you will know these MOD's are not for everyone.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a MOD that is compatable with ROW and 1.4 that could enhance and improve the air dimension?

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I use the Airstrike Mod and it helped in reducing the night attacks and number of spawning aircraft. At least that is what I noticed. What I don't like is the plane's flight characteristics. Torpedo-bombers should fly below 200m but they act otherwise releasing their torps too close to targets. Betty bombers even from 2000m will dive bomb and smack right into the water instead of level-bombing. I know this is a Naval sim but aircraft played an integral part in the Pacific war, particularly the carrier-bourne aircraft.

[denis_469]

Originally Posted by AkbarGulag

As many of you have felt, the aircraft traffic in SH4 stock is fairly insane. After looking about there are some great MOD's that change or alter the way the games aircraft layers and the machines themselves work. Unfortunately all these MOD's also alter a lot more and they all seem to remove map contact updates. If you are like me and don't want to spend 4-5 hours looking for one ship, then you will know these MOD's are not for everyone.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a MOD that is compatable with ROW and 1.4 that could enhance and improve the air dimension?

Why not simple place air units from SH3 in it case without reworks?

[donut]

Originally posted by Tater.

Did a few quick tests.

I used an H6K armed with DCs.

It dropped on me at 80ft. Note these were scripted planes.

I was attacked by a few Bettys, but none bombed me. Looks like they didn't have DCs, but they sprayed the water with MG fire.

Looks like we'll want a few new bombs---even make a 30kg and 60kg for the zeke. What I was really thinking was tweaking the air-dropped DC. The stock one has a sink rate of 5m/s, and a det depth of 5m +-5m.

In RL, they had 2 different DC det depths. Make 2 identical bombs, one to each depth, and put 1 of each on the planes.

Quote:
Q. When making an attack on a submarine, were pilots allowed to drop depth charges after the submarine disappeared below the surface?
A. Yes.


Q. How many seconds after the submarine disappeared from sight were they allowed to attack?
A. Within 30 seconds.


Q. What size of depth bombs did your aircraft use?
A. 250 kg.


Q. Did you use any other airborne weapon besides depth bombs?
A. We had nothing besides bombs. The bomb was a standard 250 kg bomb with a modified flat nose attachment and a special tail, a nose and tail fuse was used.


Q. What depth setting did you use?
A. We used 25 and 45 meters. If the submarine was discovered near a convoy at periscope depth and immediately submerged, we dropped the 25 meter; if time passed and gave the submarine time to go to a lower depth, we would drop the 45 meter bomb.


Q. Did you drop more than one depth bomb at a time?
A. Generally we dropped only one, but sometimes two.


Q. When you dropped two, what spacing was used?
A. None, the bombs were dropped simultaneously. Only experienced pilots were allowed to drop all bombs at once.


Q. At what distance from the submarine was it necessary to explode the depth charge in order to sink the submarine?
A. With the 250 kg bomb, it had to hit within 13 meters of the submarine in order to sink it. The smaller planes equipped with 60 kg bombs had to make a direct hit on the submarine to sink it.



So 25m and 45m were the 2 real depth settings. I'd set the depth to that, no or little error. The burst charge on a standard 250kg makes it about as strong as the type 2 with a 162kg warhead, maybe more. In my current DC mod that's ~50% more powerful than the stock DC you are used to. I can make 2 versions, one for stock, 1 in line with my DC mod.

I'll get on this.

My gut says we should BOP clone the maritime patrol planes, then give their basic load DECs in addition to the other loads, then sprinkle a few per appropriate air base.

tater
I'm thinking, visual sensing range of aircraft needs to be reduced

[AkbarGulag]

Thanks for finding that for us Donut. 45m :O now thats the sort of plane heat im talking about... and to kill within 13m, thats a real bad day for a submariner.

As far as sprinkling these improved sub killers at airbases. Can anything be done to address the frequency of air attacks. One thing I noticed on mission, was that a Kate spotted me but took no action, then it was shortly followed by other planes in the vicinity that actually attacked. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't you take all the gear you needed rather than just spot for someone else ^^ , this is where I think Tater has the right idea.

I see Ducimus has done a fair bit of work on planes in his TM mod, but am loathe to request he unstitch it as i'm sure I know what the answer is

Regardless of that, a dedicated air layer MOD might be a far better idea. If anyone needs me to do monotonous data entry then PM me.

[donut]

Sailor man

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by donut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurolas
Ducimus you have a severe case of the condition known as "C.T.D" :rotfl:

Long may it continue... even if it does contain the "Evil Ducimus Planes" hehehe

I have spoke of this often,even had thought you Dicimus,had considered my request. Although having not gotten a response, I keep having an epiphany
(your word)
with this feature.
Last patrol,agent insertion to the inland sea,North thru Kii sudio.coming back out

10 ten planes converged on my location at P/D at 2AM,pitch dark,no moon,& bombed ! All she wrote 10 Planes in the same area at 2AM would run into each-other in the dark. This is the two patrols your dead wish that drove me off from SHIII,& it really has nothing to do with valor,or R/L ethic. Why can I not get thru to you ? Darkness is when Subs recharge on the surface,because AC can't see US @ PD Hey man just add a nerf to your FAQ. PLEASE yours,Donut

Donut...

The Path that you seek is Data/Config/Air Strike. In the Air Strike CFG. file scroll down till you see Night Modifier=0.2. This is the setting for night air attacks. Change it to Night Modifier=0.0, then save.

IRL the Japanese had no night interdiction capability until the very last months of the war, and even at that it was not very good.
Simply put you should never be attacked by an IJN or IJAAC aircraft at night while at sea.
__________________
" And the sea shall grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus

[pythos]

July 42, Aleutians. EVERY FREAKIN HALF HOUR, contact with an air unit!!!!

This I do not think is anywhere near acurate.

Every 5 hours, yea that I could see.

Problem is, I went to SH4 editor to look at the air layer...and have no idea which part controls the interval an aircraft is sent out.

anyone have ideas on how to correct this lunacy?

[tater]

The entire paradigm of aircraft in SH4 is pretty screwy, frankly.

If I can figure out how to generate search patterns with a script... I'd put all the planes in by hand.

tater

[U96]

Hello there!

It might be the wrong thread to post this, but besides a rework of the aircraft layers, i would very much like to see the planes using their machine guns and cannons in an attack as they do in GWX 2.0 - if possible.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by pythos

July 42, Aleutians. EVERY FREAKIN HALF HOUR, contact with an air unit!!!!

This I do not think is anywhere near acurate.

Every 5 hours, yea that I could see.

Problem is, I went to SH4 editor to look at the air layer...and have no idea which part controls the interval an aircraft is sent out.

anyone have ideas on how to correct this lunacy?

The file you want is data\land

Then look for folders ending in JP. For instance: LAB_NormalAirBaseJP
Inside, open the cfg file and lower the number of squadrons. There are folders for small, normal, and large Jap bases..


Gulag..........are you saying reducing these affects the number of map contact updates?

[M. Sarsfield]

I think in the SHIII vs. SHIV post someone mentioned that theh SHIV engine differs from SHIII in that the ships generate in port and terminate in another port. Whereas SHIII just spawns them as needed. So, I could see how changing a land-based squadron cfg file might affect how often the harbors generate ships, too.

[AkbarGulag]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

Gulag..........are you saying reducing these affects the number of map contact updates?

Hey Rickc :p Are you reffering to Donuts post about night attacks with that question? As far as reducing the number of air patrols goes, I think there is more to be done than just reduce them. The whole air layer is fairly robotic and unrealistic.

Donut is offering to do some work on the munitions the planes carry. Tater seems to have some ideas on the way the planes can be added. I'm picking this 'fix' could be some time in the making. It already conflicts with some work others have done to the aircraft layers, like Ducimus's TM. That said, it shows there is already some knowledge on this, with this thread merely voicing what some of the guys here have clearly been thinking about for a while.

The reason I bring this up now, is because the mods available have pretty much addressed all the original concerns people had about SH4... the air layer is the only really BAD thing left in the game.

Fortunately, since all the modders here are realism junkies, two people could be working on seperate mods for this and be more in line with eachother than they may realise

[donut]

AkbarGulag
Donut is offering to do some work on the munitions the planes carry.

I must decline any credit,this is Taters work,& is already in T_M_. I just republish realitive/learned Info to aid other Officers to enjoy game life. The Subsim radio room forum is the officers club for SHIV when in-port,& inessence our game home. We love the reality of this fine,dedicated peroid of history,& feel strongly that valor means being in the know to make correct decisions for our men,our boat,our country. My own modding skill is comming along slowly,& I desire a teacher. I do learn from all of you.
I am not a realisum junkie,but know I would not have survived the war ,but for Gods will,& I love the sea,& the hunt. Always wanted to see New Zealand:OUT

[AkbarGulag]

Originally Posted by donut

I must decline any credit,this is Taters work,& is already in T_M_.

Ahh, I found it in the credits... of TM.

"Tater
- improved campaign mod.
- Taihosan Maru Fix
- Type13 Radar fix
- DD Yagomo
- Misc ship eqp corrections
- IJN Type 13 radar fix.
- supercool guy
- Guru of all that is IJN. If he says its true, i beleive him."

From memory the last Layer I used from Tater was beta version 0.6. And the stuff in TM already looks promising. I better go read some other threads before further comment :hmm: Cheers, Donut.

[RickC Sniper]

No, reducing the number of squadrons just reduces the overall frequency of air encounters.

You need Donut's solution above to eliminate the night attacks.


I don't think the planes need an entire revamping, I just think they are too frequent.