Deck Gun Problem

Notewire · 01-02-08, 06:47 PM

Hello - I am just now transitioning from SH3 to SH4 - and working on my initial mods.

I have loaded NSM, ROW (without 5b that convlicts with NSM), RFB, and RSDC.

However, upon doing the artillery training mission - I was COMPLETELY unable to sink the merchant. I put all 100 AP and all 100 HE, aimed at the bridge, the superstructure, even used my old U-Boat trick of skipping the AP rounds right under the water line - at least 50 of them went in that way - no sinkage.

I am putting this in the open forum because I am not sure if it is a conflict problem, a NSM problem, or just a tutorial glitch?

Can I get some help from any of the old hands?

Thanks,
Notewire.

Fincuan · 01-02-08, 07:14 PM

Forget about hitting the bridge and the superstructure - you aren't going to sink ships like that when NSM is enabled. In NSM ships only sink as a result of flooding or a critical hit. Below the waterline is the way to go, HE for merchants and AP for warships. Try to put for example 10 rounds to one compartment, then 10 rounds to the next one etc. Much more effective than shooting 20 rounds along the whole length of the waterline

robin100 · 01-03-08, 06:05 AM

Hi all!
I'm IL2

and SH3

veteran who just started playing SH4.
I've installed SH4 1.4 + Sober's Supermod (being a little confused with so many mods, I decided to choose this one).
I have the same problem as mentioned above with the deck gun . Yesterday I attacked a medium freighter, but both the fired torpedoes had missed due to overestimated target's speed - so I decided to sink her with my deck gun.
I hit the ship (aiming at waterline) with ALL the rounds I had on board, both AP and HE, with no effect at all (besides little smoke). The freighter even didn't slow down and was still running away at 10 knots!
Obviously I know that submarine's deck gun in reality wasn't too effective, but what I know after reading lots of books about submarine warfare, that it was usually possible to sink small and medium ships using it.
Having both gameplay realism and fun in mind, I think it should be possible to sink a medium freighter with 30-50 hits, or at least to make some serious damage affecting her speed and maneuberability.
Could anyone tell me please, how to change gun values (to raise the damage level a single hit can cause), but without affecting other features of installed mod (Sobers Supermod)?

S!
Robin

Notewire · 01-06-08, 09:04 PM

Also have noted in the tutorial I cannot sink the "Junks" with my Deck Gun either. I think I need to adjust my MinEf and MaxEf values - as they might be a bit low with my NSM mod installed, anybody know how to do this?

Thanks,
Notewire.

AVGWarhawk · 01-06-08, 09:09 PM

I believe this is contributed to the NSM. Deactivate the mod and try the cannon again.

swdw · 01-06-08, 10:29 PM

There are a couple of freighter types in NSM that refuse to go down no matter what. Werner is working on fixing these in the next release. Don't know if the freighter in the gunnery school is one of them.

When the RFB cannon was first modified, NSM 3.3 was not out. RFB modifies the zones and the gun was set so you could not sink a medium or larger freighter w/o at least one torpedo in RFB

Because of the different zone files and sinking mechanics, the deck guns may be a bit underpowered for NSM classic, but I've sunk ships in RFB when running NSM light.

This is why the latest topic about plans for RFB mentioned working on getting it to work well with NSM. This was not a high priority because people were reporting some issues with NSM 3.3 and RFB already modified the sinking mechanics to a degree - plus there are other things we want to work on first. Because of this you may want to play for a while without NSM classic until this situation is worked out.

The intent in the future is to make sure that RFB and NSM 4 will mesh as seamlessly as possible.

robin100 · 01-07-08, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swdw

There are a couple of freighter types in NSM that refuse to go down no matter what. Werner is working on fixing these in the next release. Don't know if the freighter in the gunnery school is one of them.

When the RFB cannon was first modified, NSM 3.3 was not out. RFB modifies the zones and the gun was set so you could not sink a medium or larger freighter w/o at least one torpedo in RFB

Because of the different zone files and sinking mechanics, the deck guns may be a bit underpowered for NSM classic, but I've sunk ships in RFB when running NSM light.

This is why the latest topic about plans for RFB mentioned working on getting it to work well with NSM. This was not a high priority because people were reporting some issues with NSM 3.3 and RFB already modified the sinking mechanics to a degree - plus there are other things we want to work on first. Because of this you may want to play for a while without NSM classic until this situation is worked out.

The intent in the future is to make sure that RFB and NSM 4 will mesh as seamlessly as possible.

Thanks for all the information! However, Sober's Super Mod doesn't include NSM, it includes only:
RFB for ROW stock
RSRDC for RFB ver 115
ROW textures only
ROW sound effects ver 8 (modified by sober)
Prolonged DC attack by Peto
adjusted the sea speed to 0.05
clear background for the messages
better sand darker
sobers better crew II
sobers compass mod

If nofting clears out, I'll wait for the mods updates as you say... and practice torpedo attacks as I should do anyway

S!
Robin

swdw · 01-07-08, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin100

Thanks for all the information! However, Sober's Super Mod doesn't include NSM, it i
If nofting clears out, I'll wait for the mods updates as you say... and practice torpedo attacks as I should do anyway

S!
Robin

Since Notewire was using NSM, that's why that was discussed.

As for your issue Robin- in the first reply I mentioned the deck guns were adjusted so you couldn't sink a medium freighter with the deck gun alone- the one you tried to sink. Beery did a lot of research into this and found out the US subs weren't capable of sinking a medium sized freighter or larger with only 3 inch and 4 inch deck guns- you needed at least one torpedo hit. Have to ask him about the 5" guns. So this is part of the realism goal of the mod.

For notewire- Beery adjusted the sampan and junk damages to be compatible with the RFB deck gun damage values. NSM changes these which is why you are having problems sinking them.

Notewire · 01-07-08, 08:57 PM

SwDw,

A thorough and informative response, my thanks. Not sure how to proceed then - except to avoid junks and small ships for operational security purposes, and practice torpedo gunnery while waiting for the mods to mesh.

Thanks again for the help,
Notewire.

01-02-08, 06:47 PM	#1
Notewire Soundman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 143 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Deck Gun Problem Hello - I am just now transitioning from SH3 to SH4 - and working on my initial mods. I have loaded NSM, ROW (without 5b that convlicts with NSM), RFB, and RSDC. However, upon doing the artillery training mission - I was COMPLETELY unable to sink the merchant. I put all 100 AP and all 100 HE, aimed at the bridge, the superstructure, even used my old U-Boat trick of skipping the AP rounds right under the water line - at least 50 of them went in that way - no sinkage. I am putting this in the open forum because I am not sure if it is a conflict problem, a NSM problem, or just a tutorial glitch? Can I get some help from any of the old hands? Thanks, Notewire.

01-06-08, 09:09 PM	#5
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,303 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I believe this is contributed to the NSM. Deactivate the mod and try the cannon again. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

01-06-08, 10:29 PM	#6
swdw Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 921 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	There are a couple of freighter types in NSM that refuse to go down no matter what. Werner is working on fixing these in the next release. Don't know if the freighter in the gunnery school is one of them. When the RFB cannon was first modified, NSM 3.3 was not out. RFB modifies the zones and the gun was set so you could not sink a medium or larger freighter w/o at least one torpedo in RFB Because of the different zone files and sinking mechanics, the deck guns may be a bit underpowered for NSM classic, but I've sunk ships in RFB when running NSM light. This is why the latest topic about plans for RFB mentioned working on getting it to work well with NSM. This was not a high priority because people were reporting some issues with NSM 3.3 and RFB already modified the sinking mechanics to a degree - plus there are other things we want to work on first. Because of this you may want to play for a while without NSM classic until this situation is worked out. The intent in the future is to make sure that RFB and NSM 4 will mesh as seamlessly as possible. __________________ "There are only two types of ships- submarines...... and targets" Unknown "you wouldn't catch me on a ship that deliberately sinks itself"- comment to me from a surface sailor. System: AMD 6300 3.5 GHz \| 32GB DDR3 \| SATA 300 320GB HD, SATA III 1TB HD, SATA III 1.TB HD \| ASUS Sonar DS sound card NVIDIA 1660 Super OC \| Windows 10

01-02-08, 07:14 PM	#2
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Forget about hitting the bridge and the superstructure - you aren't going to sink ships like that when NSM is enabled. In NSM ships only sink as a result of flooding or a critical hit. Below the waterline is the way to go, HE for merchants and AP for warships. Try to put for example 10 rounds to one compartment, then 10 rounds to the next one etc. Much more effective than shooting 20 rounds along the whole length of the waterline

01-03-08, 06:05 AM	#3
robin100 Watch Join Date: May 2005 Location: Krakow, Poland Posts: 17 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 0	Hi all! I'm IL2 and SH3 veteran who just started playing SH4. I've installed SH4 1.4 + Sober's Supermod (being a little confused with so many mods, I decided to choose this one). I have the same problem as mentioned above with the deck gun . Yesterday I attacked a medium freighter, but both the fired torpedoes had missed due to overestimated target's speed - so I decided to sink her with my deck gun. I hit the ship (aiming at waterline) with ALL the rounds I had on board, both AP and HE, with no effect at all (besides little smoke). The freighter even didn't slow down and was still running away at 10 knots! Obviously I know that submarine's deck gun in reality wasn't too effective, but what I know after reading lots of books about submarine warfare, that it was usually possible to sink small and medium ships using it. Having both gameplay realism and fun in mind, I think it should be possible to sink a medium freighter with 30-50 hits, or at least to make some serious damage affecting her speed and maneuberability. Could anyone tell me please, how to change gun values (to raise the damage level a single hit can cause), but without affecting other features of installed mod (Sobers Supermod)? S! Robin

01-06-08, 09:04 PM	#4
Notewire Soundman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 143 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Also have noted in the tutorial I cannot sink the "Junks" with my Deck Gun either. I think I need to adjust my MinEf and MaxEf values - as they might be a bit low with my NSM mod installed, anybody know how to do this? Thanks, Notewire.

01-07-08, 08:57 PM	#9
Notewire Soundman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 143 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	SwDw, A thorough and informative response, my thanks. Not sure how to proceed then - except to avoid junks and small ships for operational security purposes, and practice torpedo gunnery while waiting for the mods to mesh. Thanks again for the help, Notewire.