Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Hitman]

ou're sailing without any defense?

I have a backup copy of my C: drive with the original clean install of Windows XP and all utilities/programs that needed activation, and then periodically -each 3 months or so, depending- I simply erase everything from the HDD and copy the whole backup over it. Works wonderfully well and saves me the PITA of running antivirus that slow my machine down horribly.

[Stiebler]

@H.sie:

I could try to tweak all AI_Visual sensors ONLY when they look at the player Uboat so that they cannot look more than , say, 10000 or 12000m, WITHOUT changing their behaviour for smaller distances or other Objects. WHat about that idea? Maybe possible?

It looks as though it might be difficult, and really it is better if the escorts can detect the U-boat normally.

I suggest that reducing the number of contact reports needed, ie by sending every 2-3 hours, is technically a lot simpler.

This solution has also another big advantage:
It will be possible for the player U-boat to break away (then return) from the convoy at high TC, in order to accelerate the game. Staying in hourly contact with the convoy forces TC=32 for most of the day, which results in slow play. Slow TC has another side effect: the crew tires quickly, which makes crew management more of a nuisance too.

Stiebler.

[Hitman]

I'm currently playing the single mission in the stock SH3+ MEP3 (20km environment) and shadowing the convoy since several hours, now is daytime So far I would like to make some observations:

- It is simply impossible to shadow correctly with the stock or any supermod's current environment and sensors. I am doing it fantastically simply because I'm using MEP3 without any sensor update, so I have basically the stock SH3 escorts limited to some 8kms vision radius (Though automatically a bit enlarged by the game due to the new environment). I did this intentionally because I knew the already reported problems and wanted to be able to shadow efficiently.

- The mission plays with light or medium fog, so I have ships vanishing at around 8kms. Not good for this type of mission, as it makes shadowings even more difficult!

- Despite entering the data correctly on the TDC, when I check the contact reports the reported course is reversed! Convoy is heading on a general west course with a nice zigzag pattern and at 5 knots (All that is easy to determine if you get the hang of steering paralell at visibility limit) but in all the messages I have sent to BDU course appears around 110º to 116º

BDU has twice aknowledged my reports, 1st time asking to shadow convoy and 2nd to encourage me to stick to it. Nice

Waiting now for the night to come and see what happens. It will be a long day, though, as I'm limited to 32x Time compression in this situation. Great for normal gaming, but really annoying for testing purposes

[Hitman]

It's 13:04 nowand I have been chased and forced to submerge twice already. I evaded and resumed pursuit both times. The light fog makes it necessary to get closer to hold contact and it's easy to get detected there by the screen. BDU continues encouraging me, however I have not been able to make a report for several hours.

[rik007]

Hitman, I use the MaGui mod and let the persicope point according to the heading of the convoy that will not reverse the heading in the report.

Generally it takes a long time before the pack is available. Wheather can easily turn into storm. Certainly with the bad wheather fix it becomes almost impossible to avoid losing the convoy. Maybe it is a good idea to create harder and a more easy version of the mod for people who are less patient. For example by giving the other higher speed or something so the attack will take shorter before it unfolds.

I had six attempts from which four failures due to deteriorating wheather. It is a great experience to "be part" of the pack. At one moment during the day one of the boats was discovered and all guns were pointed on the unfortunate ship giving me an excellent opportunity to give them hell. They didnot bother about me and maybe that is a bug. Altogether an outstanding achievement to create this mod!

An extention could be that in the campaign files u-boats become available that match historically time and place of Wolfpacks. Mission objectives could then be that an area is patrolled to join/use a certain Wolfpack to whatever unlucky convoy that will pass. I'm not in the campaign files so I do not know it this is possible.

[Hitman]

Thxs Rik, good thoughts

I forgot to add that the escorts clearly are D/Fing me when I transmit now (But they didn't before they got alerted to my prescence), as two group and run in zigzag to the bearing I was when I transmitted. Luckily I expect that already and transmit only when running at flank from the edge of visibility. When they get closer I'm already far away and if necessary, submerge for a while and stop engines.

What I want to say is that this chase is incredibly more rewarding that when hunting alone In those cases, all you want is to get in front of the convoy and attack, but now you have a responsability to be shadower and stick to the convoy and it's amazing

EDIT:

Oh I also forgot to say that my crew is now wearing rain gear all the time even if the sun is shining in the sky!

[Hitman]

Well it's night already after having been again forced down and evaded, I sent a new contact report to BDU and now I have received the reply: Allowed to attack at once

I'll overtake the convoy and engage from the surface, let's see if another UBoot attacks too

EDIT:

Well got caught in the surface entering the screen and was blown out of the water LOL

No idea if the wolfpack would have gathered or not. Sorry.

[LGN1]

Hi all,

thanks for the feedback It seems that people have fun with the patch

Interval between messages: Already now you do not need to send a report after exactly one hour. You've got a bit more time... . Anyway, this is a parameter that h.sie can easily change. The same holds for the number of reports required before the wolfpack can assemble. I guess the values of these two parameters will always be a matter of taste. There is no fundamental problem here.

Shadowing: I don't know how hard/easy it was in real-life when the sea was flat From my experience the problem is not really the shadowing itself, but the sending of the reports, i.e., getting close enough so that the game allows sending the report. Based on this, I think the best solution would be if it was possible to send reports even without the visual contact . Probably this would be a better solution than messing with the sensor settings,... From my experience this should solve the shadowing problem.

Convoy course / TDC dials: IIRC, Hitman once pointed out that the AOB and bearing dial in stock SH3 are interchanged (the graphics and the 10th degree dial). In Hitman's and other GUIs this has been corrected. Maybe this is the reason for Hitman's observation with the wrong course The variable that h.sie uses does not contain the value from the bearing, but from the AOB or something similar

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

I made a new, hopefully easier, Test Mission "Wolfpack easy" with some of Stieblers settings: Windspeed 12m/s, Crew competence=2, and 3 Black Swan instead of 5 Tribal escorts. Not tested. JSGME.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ijjph9nrxcijaag


The bug Hitman reported (convoy course 180° inverted in some situations) must be fixed.

I will talk with LGN1 about changing the report interval. But if we enlarge it to, say, 2-3 hours, we have to enlarge the minimum possible time to 2 hours. Then, 1 hour interval is not possible. This restriction is caused by our algorithm.

[Hitman]

I'll try that tomorrow, but probably I will first try to ensure I get clear weather with no fog in the original one and make another attempt.

[Pdubya]

Hey all:
I have been lurking around every few weeks for the past couple years, but I never "saw" the threads with h.sie's discovery.

Truly amazing progress everyone! I am stunned that in what seems a very short period of time (for me) many of Silent Hunter's most vexing problems are solved or well on their way.

I uninstalled my old SH3/GWX and started over fresh with one of my two copies of the Encore version, loaded GWX and SH3CMDR and then V15G2. So far, so good. I am starting a campaign and due to finish up the shakedown cruise shortly. Looking forward to rediscovering that feeling of newness when I first played SH3.

Thanks again guys- and I mean everyone. I will do my best to contribute here in the future.
Cheers!

[makman94]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@Stieber: GREAT!

I could try to tweak all AI_Visual sensors ONLY when they look at the player Uboat so that they cannot look more than , say, 10000 or 12000m,

i have allready done that at my visuals sensors for MEP . i can't remember now exactly the distances but i had ,for sure , adjust them somewhere between 10000 to 12000m when weather is fine and enemy 'see' the full length of sub . give it a try ...maybe the behaviour of these visuals is closer to the objective here

Originally Posted by h.sie

....WITHOUT changing their behaviour for smaller distances or other Objects. WHat about that idea? Maybe possible?

not sure that i understand exactly what you mean here....
you mean other sensors for far distances and other sensors for short distances ? if yes ....then there is the hope to fix at last this 'vampire nights' issue that is killing totally the immersion during night ! (other sensors for day and other sensors for night)

Originally Posted by Stiebler

..... Staying in hourly contact with the convoy forces TC=32 for most of the day, which results in slow play.

Stiebler , i have set at main.cfg TC=128 when you are at hunter state . that way you will avoid this '32' .

Originally Posted by Stiebler

Slow TC has another side effect: the crew tires quickly, which makes crew management more of a nuisance too.

Stiebler.

just a guess:i think that almost all,me including, are playing the game with crew fatigue = 0
I really don't see where is the interesting part to manually arrange the crew at compartments but this is just my opinion.

Originally Posted by LGN1

.... The variable that h.sie uses does not contain the value from the bearing, but from the AOB or something similar

Cheers, LGN1

i think you are wrong here LGN1 . the variable that H.Sie is using containes exactly the value from bearing . match your scope's bearing with the convoy's course (that you want to send) and send the report . you will see (at message) as convoy's course...exactly the scope's bearing (which is also the value on tdc's bearing dial).

[h.sie]

@makman

Thanks for posting the screenies of your battle.

1) I have a problem: On the one hand I agree: If there is a working sensor/environment-combination, I see no need to fit my Mod to non-working combinations (non-working here is meant only with focus on convoy shadowing). On the other hand I try hard to be compatible to all supermods and environments and don't want to stick on one certain environment. I'm not Microsoft.

2) I meant: Selective restricting sensor range only if enemy "looks" at player Uboat: Enemy is blind for the player sub if its range is more than, say, 10000m. I could also program selective sensors regarding sun position: If day: Range=12000. If night: Range=6000. BUT: This is a new project.

3) Agree: Just set at main.cfg TC=128 when you are at hunter state

4) Agree: Bad Crew fatigue behaviour also is not a strong argument for me. If it is bad for low TC (realistic play!), there is something wrong with the whole fatigue model, and I have a problem to consider that.

5) I try to make the course estimation INDEPENDENT of the periscope bearing. This current dependency was not intended. Try to fix it.

I will discuss with LGN1 about new settings and I'm sure we find a solution.

[h.sie]

There is some confusion about the convoy course and speed estimation:

course:

It is indendend to be completely independent from the periscope bearing. It's ABSOLUTE and not relative to the players submarine current course. If the convoy is heading north, course is 0°. If it's heading west, bearing is 270° (or -90°) and so on.

A wrong course estimation will not automatically cause the wolfpack to fail. The course estimation is not used every time to lead the wolfpack. In some situations it is required, in other situations not, so I strongly suggest to make an estimation for every contact report. It is sufficient to make a coarse estimation with approx 10-20° (in)accuracy.

speed:

A very coarse estimation is sufficient. If you don't know the convoy speed, just input a typical value for convoys, maybe 7knots.

If the estimated speed value is high (fast battleship convoy), chance rises that BDU will order to attack alone.

[Hitman]

Well I thought when you input the enemy AOB and speed in the TDC it would gather automatically the course (Calculating it from your bearing & heading plus the set AOB as in real life). All the time I have been doing that while looking at the convoy with the uzo, may be that's the problem, but that's how I understood the instructions

However, a different and easier solution could be available:

Make the game pick the current player's speed and course for the radio message to BDU

Since you will shadow on paralell course -no matter if a bit ahead, abeam or behind- and at the same speed, this should suffice perfectly and will considerably liberate the player from the task of entering data in the TDC, allowing him to concentrate as the real Kaleuns in steering the boat in the proper shadowing course.

If you can implement this, I will make a readme with a diagram explaining how to shadow a convoy and report it, so that people get it quickly