Is this just Vista, or what?

mcarlsonus · 09-03-07, 11:14 AM

I've been forced into downloading and extracting mods one file at a time. I have Vista Home Premium and JSGME has been installed - and I used administrator rights to get it to generate the appropriate "MODS" and "BACKUP" folders. HOWEVER, when I attempt to extract mods I've downloaded into either the "MODS" folder, or another folder I've created, it gives me an error along the lines of "Can't extract to C:\SH4...\MODS..." I end up having to extract to Desktop instead, and then manually overwrite the existing files in SH4 (not a great idea, to be sure!)
What am I doing wrong?

System: 2G, AMDx2 4600+, XFX 7600GT, 320G SATA-7200

EAGLE_01 · 09-03-07, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcarlsonus

I've been forced into downloading and extracting mods one file at a time. I have Vista Home Premium and JSGME has been installed - and I used administrator rights to get it to generate the appropriate "MODS" and "BACKUP" folders. HOWEVER, when I attempt to extract mods I've downloaded into either the "MODS" folder, or another folder I've created, it gives me an error along the lines of "Can't extract to C:\SH4...\MODS..." I end up having to extract to Desktop instead, and then manually overwrite the existing files in SH4 (not a great idea, to be sure!)
What am I doing wrong?

System: 2G, AMDx2 4600+, XFX 7600GT, 320G SATA-7200

Vista is secured against changes being made to files in an attempt to fight hackers. AFAIK. You need to right click Proram Files,>properties>Security, and either add your name to the accepted list or make sure all permissions are checked for your name. Then you can modify stuff in that folder. It will apply that setting to all files in the Program Files folder, so it will take a minute...Go get something to drink, as Ducimus said...

skwasjer · 09-03-07, 03:39 PM

Ehm, don't ever modify permissions of system folders (Program Files, Users, Windows, etc)... You'll only make your system vulnerable/unstable. Either install the program you have problems with to another non-system drive, or change permissions only on a file-by-file or folder-by-folder bases where required, but not the entire parent folders

Games should never be installed to Program Files or even a system drive anyway.

In your case, only the MODS folder would do...

bsalyers · 09-03-07, 03:54 PM

I believe it is Vista. I downloaded JSGME and ran the installer as admin. Everything went fine until I tried to install my mods. Thanks to Vista's "compatibility files" feature (whatever the heck THAT is), Vista won't even let you really unzip the files to your MODS folder; instead, they end up in some "virtual space" where they can't "hurt" you. JSGME won't even SEE them. And before I get the harsh "maybe you're just an idiot" responses, I'm running JSGME in compatibility mode for XP SP 2, with administrative privileges, per Jones' readme. I also checked the directory structure of my mods and they are fine.
If anyone else has encountered this and has an answer, I'd be very grateful.

Capt. Shark Bait · 09-03-07, 04:29 PM

yanno, there is another solution. go back to XPSP2

longam · 09-03-07, 04:35 PM

Or just turn off UAC, it is a pain.

Archie · 09-03-07, 06:03 PM

I run vista ultimate with UAC disabled, no problems at all.

skwasjer · 09-03-07, 07:25 PM

Ditto, again, a bad suggestion... You may try if it fixes it, but I doubt it and I recommend leaving it on. About the problem, can't help out though because I don't play SH/use JSGME.

There are some things you could check though:
- use a 3rd party (un)zip tool (WinRAR, 7zip) to unpack archives. Unpacking to Program Files is a problem under regular user account, see below.
- verify folder permissions of <SH4>\Data. Make sure you have read/write access.
- install onto non-system drive preferred (both game and JSGME). The game its default install location (<Program Files>) on Vista is protected against writes. Because JSGME is writing/moving files around it will fail if run under a regular user account. Installing the game onto another drive or at least not in <Program Files> should fix this.
- try running JSGME in XP2 compat mode
- try running JSGME with 'admin' permissions

Note that these are individual suggestions. One may work, or some combined. I don't know.

Again:
- In no way should you change/replace folder permissions on system folders. Ever!
- Don't change your entire account to 'Admin', instead use 'Run As Administrator'
- Leave UAC on.

If it still doesn't work, you may try contacting JScones. Maybe he has some hints.

Hope this helps...

bsalyers · 09-03-07, 07:51 PM

I've emailed JScones. We'll see if he can/will shed light. I, too, am a consultant, and I can't jump on the band wagon of all those who decry disabling of Vista's "protect-me-from-myself" user crippling. Is it a bad idea to disable UAC? Probably. Is usability the first concern any OS maker should have? Definitely. I want, first and foremost, to be able to use my programs. Beyond that, I'll decide how to protect my machine, thank you very much. Any OS that "protects" me from my mods by making them unusable will ultimately not work for me.

theluckyone17 · 09-03-07, 09:28 PM

Try reinstalling SH4 to a different directory... like "C:\SH4", "C:\Silent Hunter IV", or even "C:\Games\Silent Hunter IV".

Just get it out of under the "Program Files" directory, and then Vista will stop playing games with the permissions, and redirecting changed files to the "compatibility files" link.

bsalyers · 09-03-07, 11:15 PM

You're right, Theluckyone17, I should do that, and it would work; however...
it pisses me off that the Program Files folder is locked. That's where programs belong - including games. Even ones that have to be modified. If you're gonna have a folder called "Programs", then I, for one, believe programs should live there. I like an orderly computer, and I like to keep things where they belong.
Instead, I've chosen the inelegant solution of skipping JSGME and installing my mod files directly to the Data folder. So there's no going back. It's a pain in the @ss, but it makes my mods work and lets me keep my programs where they should be.
I think there should be a bettter answer for running SH4 mods under Vista and I hope it turns up soon.
Thanks for your reply.

theluckyone17 · 09-03-07, 11:27 PM

Not a problem... I think I reinstalled SH4 about five times in the midst of playing with JSGME and various mods, 'til that particular solution hit me in the head. I agree with you completely... this "feature" of Vista is doing nothing more than irritating us, in it's current form. IT would've been nice if MS had fully implemented a "versioning" feature, where overwritten files located under "Program Files" would've been moved to a "Compatibility location", and organized appropriately... in case we wanted to revert back to a previous version of a specific file. 'Course, then we'd be wondering why our hard drives are all clogged up, after these huge data files get packed away for versioning history... *sigh*. I'd settle for MS simply providing a toggle switch for the darn thing.

I understand about the desire for neatness... unfortunately, I deal way too much with Linux, who's general file system structure makes a lot of sense to me. Better than Windows, at least... and as a result, I just give in.

Seadogs · 09-04-07, 01:21 AM

Well I believe the new system has it's uses, but C:/Program files is no longer a good place to put your games. As far as bieng orderly, I just created a C:/Games Directory and that was that. Hopefully they will have the sense to reflect something like this in future installer aps.

JScones · 09-04-07, 02:17 AM

To save me re-typing... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...12&postcount=5

bsalyers · 09-04-07, 02:30 AM

OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall.

What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly.

Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?

09-03-07, 11:14 AM	#1
mcarlsonus Weps Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 362 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Is this just Vista, or what? I've been forced into downloading and extracting mods one file at a time. I have Vista Home Premium and JSGME has been installed - and I used administrator rights to get it to generate the appropriate "MODS" and "BACKUP" folders. HOWEVER, when I attempt to extract mods I've downloaded into either the "MODS" folder, or another folder I've created, it gives me an error along the lines of "Can't extract to C:\SH4...\MODS..." I end up having to extract to Desktop instead, and then manually overwrite the existing files in SH4 (not a great idea, to be sure!) What am I doing wrong? System: 2G, AMDx2 4600+, XFX 7600GT, 320G SATA-7200

09-03-07, 03:39 PM	#3
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 3	Ehm, don't ever modify permissions of system folders (Program Files, Users, Windows, etc)... You'll only make your system vulnerable/unstable. Either install the program you have problems with to another non-system drive, or change permissions only on a file-by-file or folder-by-folder bases where required, but not the entire parent folders Games should never be installed to Program Files or even a system drive anyway. In your case, only the MODS folder would do... __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

09-03-07, 03:54 PM	#4
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Same issue I believe it is Vista. I downloaded JSGME and ran the installer as admin. Everything went fine until I tried to install my mods. Thanks to Vista's "compatibility files" feature (whatever the heck THAT is), Vista won't even let you really unzip the files to your MODS folder; instead, they end up in some "virtual space" where they can't "hurt" you. JSGME won't even SEE them. And before I get the harsh "maybe you're just an idiot" responses, I'm running JSGME in compatibility mode for XP SP 2, with administrative privileges, per Jones' readme. I also checked the directory structure of my mods and they are fine. If anyone else has encountered this and has an answer, I'd be very grateful.

09-03-07, 04:29 PM	#5
Capt. Shark Bait Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: in a convergance zone Posts: 1,186 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	yanno, there is another solution. go back to XPSP2 __________________ Leiser und tödlicher edler Ritter der Tiefe Corsair Vengeance M70; ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z; FX 8350; Asus 7870; Samsung SyncMaster 2243SWX; coolmax CUG950B 950w psu; 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3; Corsair M4 SSD 128GB, WD 1TB; x18 DVR212D; 7SP1

09-03-07, 06:03 PM	#7
Archie Medic Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The South Pacific, No, Really.... The South Pacific Posts: 165 Downloads: 73 Uploads: 0	I run vista ultimate with UAC disabled, no problems at all. __________________ __________________ "I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'" President John F. Kennedy,

09-03-07, 04:35 PM	#6
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Or just turn off UAC, it is a pain.

09-03-07, 07:25 PM	#8
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 3	Ditto, again, a bad suggestion... You may try if it fixes it, but I doubt it and I recommend leaving it on. About the problem, can't help out though because I don't play SH/use JSGME. There are some things you could check though: - use a 3rd party (un)zip tool (WinRAR, 7zip) to unpack archives. Unpacking to Program Files is a problem under regular user account, see below. - verify folder permissions of <SH4>\Data. Make sure you have read/write access. - install onto non-system drive preferred (both game and JSGME). The game its default install location (<Program Files>) on Vista is protected against writes. Because JSGME is writing/moving files around it will fail if run under a regular user account. Installing the game onto another drive or at least not in <Program Files> should fix this. - try running JSGME in XP2 compat mode - try running JSGME with 'admin' permissions Note that these are individual suggestions. One may work, or some combined. I don't know. Again: - In no way should you change/replace folder permissions on system folders. Ever! - Don't change your entire account to 'Admin', instead use 'Run As Administrator' - Leave UAC on. If it still doesn't work, you may try contacting JScones. Maybe he has some hints. Hope this helps... __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

09-03-07, 07:51 PM	#9
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	I've emailed JScones. We'll see if he can/will shed light. I, too, am a consultant, and I can't jump on the band wagon of all those who decry disabling of Vista's "protect-me-from-myself" user crippling. Is it a bad idea to disable UAC? Probably. Is usability the first concern any OS maker should have? Definitely. I want, first and foremost, to be able to use my programs. Beyond that, I'll decide how to protect my machine, thank you very much. Any OS that "protects" me from my mods by making them unusable will ultimately not work for me. __________________ I had a life back in the Real World... before I discovered SubSims.

09-03-07, 09:28 PM	#10
theluckyone17 Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: Niskayuna, NY Posts: 482 Downloads: 103 Uploads: 0	Try reinstalling SH4 to a different directory... like "C:\SH4", "C:\Silent Hunter IV", or even "C:\Games\Silent Hunter IV". Just get it out of under the "Program Files" directory, and then Vista will stop playing games with the permissions, and redirecting changed files to the "compatibility files" link.

09-03-07, 11:15 PM	#11
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	You're right, Theluckyone17, I should do that, and it would work; however... it pisses me off that the Program Files folder is locked. That's where programs belong - including games. Even ones that have to be modified. If you're gonna have a folder called "Programs", then I, for one, believe programs should live there. I like an orderly computer, and I like to keep things where they belong. Instead, I've chosen the inelegant solution of skipping JSGME and installing my mod files directly to the Data folder. So there's no going back. It's a pain in the @ss, but it makes my mods work and lets me keep my programs where they should be. I think there should be a bettter answer for running SH4 mods under Vista and I hope it turns up soon. Thanks for your reply.

09-03-07, 11:27 PM	#12
theluckyone17 Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: Niskayuna, NY Posts: 482 Downloads: 103 Uploads: 0	Not a problem... I think I reinstalled SH4 about five times in the midst of playing with JSGME and various mods, 'til that particular solution hit me in the head. I agree with you completely... this "feature" of Vista is doing nothing more than irritating us, in it's current form. IT would've been nice if MS had fully implemented a "versioning" feature, where overwritten files located under "Program Files" would've been moved to a "Compatibility location", and organized appropriately... in case we wanted to revert back to a previous version of a specific file. 'Course, then we'd be wondering why our hard drives are all clogged up, after these huge data files get packed away for versioning history... sigh. I'd settle for MS simply providing a toggle switch for the darn thing. I understand about the desire for neatness... unfortunately, I deal way too much with Linux, who's general file system structure makes a lot of sense to me. Better than Windows, at least... and as a result, I just give in.

09-04-07, 01:21 AM	#13
Seadogs Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 228 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well I believe the new system has it's uses, but C:/Program files is no longer a good place to put your games. As far as bieng orderly, I just created a C:/Games Directory and that was that. Hopefully they will have the sense to reflect something like this in future installer aps.

09-04-07, 02:17 AM	#14
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	To save me re-typing... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...12&postcount=5

09-04-07, 02:30 AM	#15
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall. What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly. Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?