Iraq policy shifting soon?

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6057740.stm

Latest polls show that Bush not only has lost the majority of Americans to support his views on Iraq, they also show that currently the democrats are thought to have better competence in the traditional field of Republican's strength: security in general. While that throws a grim shadow on the perspectives for the upcoming elections, it is not really a surprise that now groups within the Republicans are forming up, urging a change of Iraq policies that only a blind man can still refuse to see as having completely failed.

While the one alternative suggested by Baker & friends, is reasonable (phased withdrawal [of most troops, they say, so they plan to nevertheless remain a longterm presence in Iraq?] ), the other alternative they mention make me shake my head : are they really meaning that serious? Inviting Iran and Syria to send assitance into Iraq and help to stop the violance...?

[bradclark1]

After Senator Waren (R) was on the news saying Iraq was going sideways or backwards more republicans are calling for a change. We'll see.

[The Avon Lady]

This just in: Sunni mujahedin declare separate state within Iraq.

Stay tuned!

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

While the one alternative suggested by Baker & friends, is reasonable (phased withdrawal [of most troops

You mean like what Bush's plan was all along? We never intended to stay there forever.

Rebuilding Iraq will require a sustained commitment from many nations, including our own: we will remain in Iraq as long as necessary, and not a day more."

-- President George W. Bush
February 26, 2003

And no, most Americans don't think the Democrats are more competant in areas of national security....

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

This just in: Sunni mujahedin declare separate state within Iraq.

Stay tuned!

That was just a matter of time. I wouldn't be shocked if it splits into three distinct different states after the civil war ends. Whenever that will be, if ever.

[bradclark1]

And no, most Americans don't think the Democrats are more competant in areas of national security....

Thats what you think. The polls have shown different though.
The elections next month will give a window on that so it's not even worth arguing about.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Thats what you think. The polls have shown different though.
The elections next month will give a window on that so it's not even worth arguing about.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Where on that poll page is there any specific result for the specific question under discussion?

[August]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Thats what you think. The polls have shown different though.
The elections next month will give a window on that so it's not even worth arguing about.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

You mean the same polls that showed Kerry with a huge lead over Bush in the last presidential election?

[August]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Where on that poll page is there any specific result for the specific question under discussion?

I really hope that the Democrats do win the next couple of elections. That way when they screw it up, and they will like they always have, they won't be able to pretend it's all the Republicans fault. They'll be forced to actually stand on their own record rather than criticize the other sides.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by August

I really hope that the Democrats do win the next couple of elections. That way when they screw it up, and they will like they always have, they won't be able to pretend it's all the Republicans fault. They'll be forced to actually stand on their own record rather than criticize the other sides.

Last paragraph of New York magazine article Could the Democrats Lose?:

"And what of the longer run? What happens if the party is restored to power after running a campaign where the essence of its appeal was, Bush and his enablers blow? Here’s hoping that its members realize that more is needed to cement a durable Democratic revival. Here’s hoping they grasp that pursuing a nonstop strategy of investigation and prosecution—gloriously cathartic though it would be—is a sure way to turn whatever victory they might win this year into something that Pyrrhus would be proud of. "

[fredbass]

Originally Posted by August

I really hope that the Democrats do win the next couple of elections. That way when they screw it up, and they will like they always have, they won't be able to pretend it's all the Republicans fault. They'll be forced to actually stand on their own record rather than criticize the other sides.

In conjunction with what you've said, IMO, people are giving way too much credit or blame on previous administrations (it's called playing the political game). I will always believe that a current administration has more influence with current events than many deter from, whether its democrats or republicans. And of course it's not all the Republicans fault.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Thats what you think. The polls have shown different though.
The elections next month will give a window on that so it's not even worth arguing about.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6057740.stm

Already quoted some days ago, but nevertheless... CNN ran a looping day-long editorial about it some days ago. Polls are still pictures of the moment. Not more - but also not less.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

You mean like what Bush's plan was all along? We never intended to stay there forever.

No, not me, but Baker.

And no, not according to plan to install a democracy by american example and missionise them to Western ideas about freedom and democracy, but in violation of Bushs several-times changed declarations of what the war should achieve, a "plan" (if there ever was oine worth to be called that, I think their preplanning ended with the assumption that the Iraqui military would surrender sooner or later in 2003) which currently has been reduced to this: stay as long as the war has not been "won" and Iraq can't take care of itself and situation has not been stabilized". But the war has been lost since long, and Baker knows that when saying "there's got to be another way", and arguing against "staying the course". Only people dleiberately choosing not to think can still argue that the thing is an open issue and the outcome needs to be seen. The thing is decided - you lost. It's just a question of time until you run out of "arguments" to claim the opposite.

Wake up to reality, August. You are still dreaming, hoping the dream will last forever. It won't.

Now Baker, before him that British chief-of-the-army general some days ago, before him a US Marine general some weeks ago, before them that several high ranking US military leaders. It's over.

[fredbass]

Originally Posted by August

We never intended to stay there forever.

Rebuilding Iraq will require a sustained commitment from many nations, including our own: we will remain in Iraq as long as necessary, and not a day more."

-- President George W. Bush

February 26, 2003

....

I can always count on you for the truth. Good Job.

[Coda]

Originally Posted by August

And no, most Americans don't think the Democrats are more competant in areas of national security....

I love it. It is hilarious when people outside the US tell us what we think.

Most Americans KNOW that republicans place a higher priority on national security than democrats.