Sextant & celestial navigation in SHIII

_Seth_ · 10-16-06, 01:23 AM

Could something like this be implemented in SHIII? Are the sun and the stars in SHIII "correct" for doing so?

(Here is the complete link

http://www.hangsim.com/vs/help/panel...0and%20sextant

To show the sextant view press Shift + T, this will show the following view:

On the middle of the screen you see the occlusion disk, this is the part where the filter is used to dim the light of the sun and show it to you in the form of a disk, into this part a reflection mirror reflects the sun and shows it lower than it really is in the sky.
The three knobs at the right side are the controls of the sextant, the top is the opacity or strength of this filter, the middle one is the zoom and the lower is the elevation angle.
The process of using a sextant revolves around observing the disk of the sun and measuring the elevation angle between it and the horizon, by using the elevation knob you can bring down the disk of the sun until it intersects with the horizon, and thus you measure the elevation angle between the sun and the horizon.
To make fine adjustments in the elevation angle of the sun, increase the zoom, the higher the magnification will be the more sensitive the elevation knob will become.
A full explanation of how to use the sextant is beyond the scope of this manual, this information is freely available on the web and on various books and tutorials.
This sextant is provided for the purpose of virtual celestial navigation, it was tested and found to have acceptable level of error like the one found in real observations.

Dantenoc · 10-16-06, 01:54 AM

No, the stars and sun are incorrect in SHIII... many have tried to do celestial observations and it just isn't possible. Sun rises and sets at incorrect times and blah blah blah...

_Seth_ · 10-16-06, 02:12 AM

Scheisse, would have been cool with something like this.....

P_Funk · 10-16-06, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Seth_

Scheisse, would have been cool with something like this.....

SH4 baby.

_Seth_ · 10-16-06, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Seth_

Scheisse, would have been cool with something like this.....

SH4 baby.

Lets hope so. When Virtual sailor 7 can make it, Ubisoft should too....

Safe-Keeper · 10-16-06, 08:31 AM

Sextants, celestial navigation, and what the Heck not. Bring it on. As a reality option.

There's an old thread discussing this. Try searching for "sextant" or something.

SteamWake · 10-16-06, 09:13 AM

The celistial sphere appears to be quite correct.

Unforutunatly the "clock" is all messed up. It may have something to do with time compression etc.

But yea this was discussed and researched shortly after launch and the general agreement was that it cant be done... in this version.

Rhodes · 10-16-06, 11:58 AM

"The clock is messed up". Even when we put the mouse over it and it gives the local time info?

SteamWake · 10-16-06, 12:46 PM

Yea the celestial sphere could be accurate right down to the arc second.

However the most accurate sextant in the world is worthless without an accurate timepiece.

_Seth_ · 10-16-06, 01:09 PM

I dont think this could be difficult to make this in an accurate way, but im not a modder (i do have great respect for the modders). Combined with the removal of the uboat icon on the SHIII map, it would make the whole thing more realistic. But: The map itself had to be changed, or a new map had to be produced to combine the grid system with the new map, since the grid system doesnt support latitude & longitudes. This isnt a problem, the way i see it, and so is also the sun and star adjustment.
The chronological issue: Accurate time measurment is vital for this type of navigation, but i also think it can be solved easily.
(sorry for bad english, im just excited about this)!

SteamWake · 10-16-06, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Seth_

The chronological issue: Accurate time measurment is vital for this type of navigation, but i also think it can be solved easily.
(sorry for bad english, im just excited about this)!

Im thinking maybe not as it is in the core of the [current] game engine.

That being said there are a plethora of astronomy programs that can show the sky for a given locatation at nearly any time past, present and future. Prehaps these alogarythims could be worked into the program.

Heres one of my favorites... price is right too

http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/

_Seth_ · 10-16-06, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Im thinking maybe not as it is in the core of the [current] game engine.

Ok, that complicates it.... Those programs are great, and some number chrushing modder could maybe implement this. Its weird; we can play online with people all over the world, but its difficult to get the stars,sun and time correct in a game...:hmm:

Sonarman · 10-16-06, 02:06 PM

The original C-64 version of Pirates! had a very simplified sextant which you had to use to find your position on the printed map, this was quite a fun addition and it was a shame to see it omitted in Pirates Gold and the present release which both feature the usual "built in GPS" on-screen map. It would be great if a virtual sextant was added to SH4.

AVGWarhawk · 10-16-06, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantenoc

No, the stars and sun are incorrect in SHIII... many have tried to do celestial observations and it just isn't possible. Sun rises and sets at incorrect times and blah blah blah...

I believe the sun rises and sets correctly. In the northern hemisphere, the sun is big and bright at 10 pm. What is others take on this issue of the sun up/sun down times in this game?

10-16-06, 01:23 AM	#1
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Sextant & celestial navigation in SHIII Could something like this be implemented in SHIII? Are the sun and the stars in SHIII "correct" for doing so? (Here is the complete link http://www.hangsim.com/vs/help/panel...0and%20sextant To show the sextant view press Shift + T, this will show the following view: On the middle of the screen you see the occlusion disk, this is the part where the filter is used to dim the light of the sun and show it to you in the form of a disk, into this part a reflection mirror reflects the sun and shows it lower than it really is in the sky. The three knobs at the right side are the controls of the sextant, the top is the opacity or strength of this filter, the middle one is the zoom and the lower is the elevation angle. The process of using a sextant revolves around observing the disk of the sun and measuring the elevation angle between it and the horizon, by using the elevation knob you can bring down the disk of the sun until it intersects with the horizon, and thus you measure the elevation angle between the sun and the horizon. To make fine adjustments in the elevation angle of the sun, increase the zoom, the higher the magnification will be the more sensitive the elevation knob will become. A full explanation of how to use the sextant is beyond the scope of this manual, this information is freely available on the web and on various books and tutorials. This sextant is provided for the purpose of virtual celestial navigation, it was tested and found to have acceptable level of error like the one found in real observations. __________________

10-16-06, 01:54 AM	#2
Dantenoc Captain Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ensenada, B.C., Mexico Posts: 504 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	No, the stars and sun are incorrect in SHIII... many have tried to do celestial observations and it just isn't possible. Sun rises and sets at incorrect times and blah blah blah... __________________ Going to U-boot school : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88922 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=90234 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97682

10-16-06, 02:12 AM	#3
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Scheisse, would have been cool with something like this..... __________________

10-16-06, 08:31 AM	#6
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Sextants, celestial navigation, and what the Heck not. Bring it on. As a reality option. There's an old thread discussing this. Try searching for "sextant" or something. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper. Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 10-16-06 at 08:40 AM.

10-16-06, 11:58 AM	#8
Rhodes Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Figueira da Foz, Portugal Posts: 4,515 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	"The clock is messed up". Even when we put the mouse over it and it gives the local time info? __________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/16416646@N05/

10-16-06, 09:13 AM	#7
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The celistial sphere appears to be quite correct. Unforutunatly the "clock" is all messed up. It may have something to do with time compression etc. But yea this was discussed and researched shortly after launch and the general agreement was that it cant be done... in this version.

10-16-06, 12:46 PM	#9
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Yea the celestial sphere could be accurate right down to the arc second. However the most accurate sextant in the world is worthless without an accurate timepiece.

10-16-06, 01:09 PM	#10
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	I dont think this could be difficult to make this in an accurate way, but im not a modder (i do have great respect for the modders). Combined with the removal of the uboat icon on the SHIII map, it would make the whole thing more realistic. But: The map itself had to be changed, or a new map had to be produced to combine the grid system with the new map, since the grid system doesnt support latitude & longitudes. This isnt a problem, the way i see it, and so is also the sun and star adjustment. The chronological issue: Accurate time measurment is vital for this type of navigation, but i also think it can be solved easily. (sorry for bad english, im just excited about this)! __________________

10-16-06, 02:06 PM	#13
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,392 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	The original C-64 version of Pirates! had a very simplified sextant which you had to use to find your position on the printed map, this was quite a fun addition and it was a shame to see it omitted in Pirates Gold and the present release which both feature the usual "built in GPS" on-screen map. It would be great if a virtual sextant was added to SH4.