Titanic Fanatic?

[Sniper297]

Any Titanic fans out there? "A NiIGHT TO REMEMBER" was on TV today, and it triggered a couple of questions that have been nagging me for several years. I've seen 3 different Titanic movies, plus a few dramatized documentaries - and in ALL of them, the lookout hollers "ICEBERG RIGHT AHEAD!" and the officer of the watch yells to the helmsman "Hard 'a Starboard!"

All accounts, plus the actual discovery of the wreck, agree that the Titanic sideswiped the iceberg on the starboard side, the damage is on the starboard side, and all accounts agree she was turning to port when the starboard bow sideswiped the iceberg. Did the helmsman turn the wrong way, or does everyone who wrote the scripts not know the difference between port and starboard? Or is there some way a ship going 20 knots can put the helm to starboard and swing to port without losing way and going backwards?

Second thing that's been bothering me, ever since the wreck was discovered (back in the '80s?), I saw images of the anchors hanging from the bow, and the chains on the deck. The ship was sinking by the bow and many more passengers would have survived if it had stayed afloat until the Carpathian arrived, so the obvious first step would be to shed some weight from the bow. Did no one think of jettisoning the anchors and chains? That's quite a few tons gone from just where you need additional buoyancy. I've never seen that discussed, so I have no idea whether nobody thought of it, or the idea was dismissed as not making enough of a difference, or possibly there wasn't enough time. I find that last unlikely, all you gotta do is let them go, and even if the bitter ends were secured somehow the chains would have torn loose.

[Sailor Steve]

That's one of the things that originally bugged me about the new movie, until I found out the fascinating truth: going all the way back to the times when rudders were controlled by a tiller instead of a wheel, the order was for the direction the helmsman moved, which was the opposite direction for the rudder (and the ship) to turn. This convention was still in use in 1912, and if I remember rightly it is commented upon in Walter Lord's original book A Night To Remember. I'm not sure if the wheel was rigged so the helmsman actually moved it to starboard to turn to port, but I doubt it. I think they just knew to do it that way. Anyway, the order as given in the movies is correct.

As to the anchors, I think all your summations are correct: they didn't have enough time, they didn't think of it and it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway.

One of the fascination things about the sinking is that ships (unlike cars, planes and boats) actually turn tighter the faster they go. If Titanic had turned but the officer had NOT ordered "Full reverse", they might have actually missed the 'berg. Conversely, had they ordered "Full reverse" but not turned at all the bow would have been smashed, people would have been thrown about and injured, but the ship would not have sustained that huge gash down the side and almost certainly would not have sunk.

[Kapitan]

The anchors alone wieghed 16 tonnes it would have taken many men to knock the two holding pins out to release them, but as to wieghing the ship down two or three anchors doesnt make a blind bit of diffrence to the ships list infact the dart 8's anchor is 14 tonnes with the anchors taken off theres about 5mm or diffrece in the water line.

So it would have gone down whats the point of jettesoning the anchors when the diffrence is going to be minute and risk more lives.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As to the anchors, I think all your summations are correct: they didn't have enough time, they didn't think of it and it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway.

1. Based on eyewitness accounts of the iceberg's size: Had they maintained power through the turn, modern flow simulators have indicated they would have been able to turn in time.

2. Had they not attempted to turn at all, and instead just rammed right up into the 'berg, the boat would have likely grounded onto the ice, preventing it from sinking.

3. Had the construction company made the forward bulkheads truely airtight (that is to say, had they not left a 10' gap at the top of the buldheads to save money), the boat would have stayed afloat.

4. Had the White Star company put enough life rafts aboard, rather than making more room for the 1st class passengers to mosey about, far fewer people would have drown or otherwise succumbed to hypothermia (you know the crew would have been launching the first dozen boats half full, because there were millionares onboard).

5. Had the skipper not increased speed during the Atlanic transit, there would have been more time to make the braking-turn, reducing the probability that the fore compartments would be successively breeched.

6. Had the ship wireless station been manned 24/7 by a revolving shift, on the Californian, they could have been there by the time the Titanic went under and immediately began resuce operations for the people in the water.



So. In the immortal words of Richard Marcinko, it was "a real goatf*ck."

[bookworm_020]

There is always "what if's" when it comes to things like this. If they did miss the iceberg, or didn't sink, would more people have died due to some of the problems brought to light by the Titanic?

Look at what changed,

Enough life boats for all passangers, and over time better lifeboats

Radio's manned 24/7, with a standard for emergancy comunication.

Iceberg warnings and ice patrols

The creation of International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS), which came into being because of the Titanic, this has helped save many thousands of lives.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by tycho102

1. Based on eyewitness accounts of the iceberg's size: Had they maintained power through the turn, modern flow simulators have indicated they would have been able to turn in time.

2. Had they not attempted to turn at all, and instead just rammed right up into the 'berg, the boat would have likely grounded onto the ice, preventing it from sinking.

3. Had the construction company made the forward bulkheads truely airtight (that is to say, had they not left a 10' gap at the top of the buldheads to save money), the boat would have stayed afloat.

4. Had the White Star company put enough life rafts aboard, rather than making more room for the 1st class passengers to mosey about, far fewer people would have drown or otherwise succumbed to hypothermia (you know the crew would have been launching the first dozen boats half full, because there were millionares onboard).

5. Had the skipper not increased speed during the Atlanic transit, there would have been more time to make the braking-turn, reducing the probability that the fore compartments would be successively breeched.

6. Had the ship wireless station been manned 24/7 by a revolving shift, on the Californian, they could have been there by the time the Titanic went under and immediately began resuce operations for the people in the water.

Is it ever too late for a class action suit?

[Hylander_1314]

Yep, my Great Gramma's brother went down on the Titanic. There were a lot of mistake made, but it usually takes these types of trageties to change things.

I for one wouldn't have allowed the the stupid bullshine that went on with those people, as to loading the lifeboats. As far as millionaires goes, money doesn't mean @$%^ in a situation like that. The boat is made to hold 77 people, guess what, it's gonna get 77 people loaded in it, money or not. And if I can squeeze a few more in, by God I will. At the women and children. From all classes.