What is France trying to do?

10-08-06, 08:09 AM

French parliament Thursday, calls for five years in prison and a fine of 45,000 euros (57,000 dollars) for anyone who denies the massacres of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire,

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=145650

WITH ABOUT AN ALGERIA 'GENOCIDE' LAW AS WE ARE AT IT ?

Skybird · 10-08-06, 08:48 AM

No, they are not nuts, but it is a political message in the first, and an additonal tripwire for EU-Turkey negotiations. Chirac and France is strongly opposing the EU entry of Turkey. Since I also strictly oppose Turkish EU membership I support that French move, since it makes things more difficult and supports my goal of negotiation failure.

UglyMowgli · 10-08-06, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcosis

French parliament Thursday, calls for five years in prison and a fine of 45,000 euros (57,000 dollars) for anyone who denies the massacres of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire,

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=145650

WITH ABOUT AN ALGERIA 'GENOCIDE' LAW AS WE ARE AT IT ?

For you algerian genocide is the massacre of the 100 000 Harkis (who were on the french side) by the FLN (the algerian liberation army) after the cease fire?
At the end of the war, 27500 french soldiers were killed + 3000 french civilans and 250 000 algerians.

And what about the US army genocide in Iraq since 2003? It 's war the is civilain loss on the both side.
For the armenian genocide there was no war, just an ethnic epuration.

Skybird · 10-08-06, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcosis

French parliament Thursday, calls for five years in prison and a fine of 45,000 euros (57,000 dollars) for anyone who denies the massacres of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire,

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=145650

WITH ABOUT AN ALGERIA 'GENOCIDE' LAW AS WE ARE AT IT ?

For you algerian genocide is the massacre of the 100 000 Harkis (who were on the french side) by the FLN (the algerian liberation army) after the cease fire?
At the end of the war, 27500 french soldiers were killed + 3000 french civilans and 250 000 algerians.

And what about the US army genocide in Iraq since 2003? It 's war the is civilain loss on the both side.
For the armenian genocide there was no war, just an ethnic epuration.

What do you mean by "civilian losses on both sides"? And what "American genocide in Iraq"?

And what do you mean by "just an epuration"? Are you sure the massacring of 600-800 thousand people deserves the word "just"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

What genocide is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent...me_of_Genocide

Yahoshua · 10-08-06, 10:59 AM

Galileo, why don't you come up with the evidence that we're actually committing genocide in Iraq (and I mean with reliable sources from mainstream media).

Btw, not only are you playing with fire but I have a ZERO tolerance policy for liars.

UglyMowgli · 10-08-06, 11:42 AM

ben si vous avez aucune tolerance pour les menteurs mon cher mai, faudrait pas voir a melanger les genres et avoir 2 poids 2 mesures dans vos propos ciritques, dire qu'il y a eu un genocide du peuple algerien entre 1954 et 1962 c'est comme dire qu'il y en a un actuellement en iraq. Dans toutes guerre il y a des morts civils mais doit on les qulifier de genocide? y a pas de guerre propre, juste des guerres justes (celles que l'on gagne) et des sales (celles qu'on perd militairmeent ou politiquement).
Et puis si on veux commencer acauser d egenocide, si on parlait un peu des indiens d'amerique.
je femrerai pas ma geule devant des gros connards qui savent de quoi ils causent moi aussi.
Je vous la souhaite pas bonne.

TteFAboB · 10-08-06, 12:06 PM

I find that policy quite Stalinist. But I guess it suits France where you have the side of the communists and socialists versus the side of the nationalists/fascists and monarchists.

It's a sign of the point we've reached, if that's how you need to send a message.

I'd do it the other way, I'd offer a 45,000 Euro prize for whoever can come up with the best 'irrefutable' study about the genocide. But that's my way of doing things, at least it works with dogs.

The Avon Lady · 10-08-06, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

ben si vous avez aucune tolerance pour les menteurs mon cher mai, faudrait pas voir a melanger les genres et avoir 2 poids 2 mesures dans vos propos ciritques, dire qu'il y a eu un genocide du peuple algerien entre 1954 et 1962 c'est comme dire qu'il y en a un actuellement en iraq. Dans toutes guerre il y a des morts civils mais doit on les qulifier de genocide? y a pas de guerre propre, juste des guerres justes (celles que l'on gagne) et des sales (celles qu'on perd militairmeent ou politiquement).
Et puis si on veux commencer acauser d egenocide, si on parlait un peu des indiens d'amerique.
je femrerai pas ma geule devant des gros connards qui savent de quoi ils causent moi aussi.
Je vous la souhaite pas bonne.

This post would make Gomez Adams go wild with passion.

10-08-06, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcosis

For you algerian genocide is the massacre of the 100 000 Harkis (who were on the french side) by the FLN (the algerian liberation army) after the cease fire?
At the end of the war, 27500 french soldiers were killed + 3000 french civilans and 250 000 algerians.

And what about the US army genocide in Iraq since 2003? It 's war the is civilain loss on the both side.
For the armenian genocide there was no war, just an ethnic epuration.

Theirs been more French Genocide than the US armies had wars.

Lets start here:
the Vendée

http://www.fsmitha.com/review/r-secher.htm

and here:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/0...rail-wwii.html

Oberon · 10-08-06, 03:48 PM

Hmmm, now I realise just how long ago it was I did GCSE French... :hmm:

Anyway...guys...newsflash!!

The Napoleonic wars have ended!! We're in two societies that France is also a member of!! I go to MacDonalds and eat French fries! (probably made in Sheffield

) Are we going to start burying the muskets now?

STEED · 10-08-06, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Hmmm, now I realise just how long ago it was I did GCSE French... :hmm:

What the hell is GCSE? In my day it was CSE & GCE are hang on they merge them together didn't they.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Are we going to start burying the muskets now?

I know a place you can get hold of some.

Onkel Neal · 10-08-06, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcosis

French parliament Thursday, calls for five years in prison and a fine of 45,000 euros (57,000 dollars) for anyone who denies the massacres of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire,

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=145650

WITH ABOUT AN ALGERIA 'GENOCIDE' LAW AS WE ARE AT IT ?

For you algerian genocide is the massacre of the 100 000 Harkis (who were on the french side) by the FLN (the algerian liberation army) after the cease fire?
At the end of the war, 27500 french soldiers were killed + 3000 french civilans and 250 000 algerians.

And what about the US army genocide in Iraq since 2003? It 's war the is civilain loss on the both side.
For the armenian genocide there was no war, just an ethnic epuration.

Whoa! Find an example besides the US. The three people who posted ahead of you are not Americans.

Why answer their criticisms of French politics with something about the US?

CB.. · 10-08-06, 04:52 PM

wow..the Pope certainly seems to have started something with his historical research speech....this should be fun..no idea where we'll end up tho

Bertgang · 10-09-06, 06:06 AM

As pointed by Skybird, such law it's mainly a political signal for Turkey, and those who want this country in UE; under this side, it has my full approval.

I hate any denial of historycal facts but, under a different point of wiew, I doubt this sort of laws could work fine, on the long run.

Their main limit is that just few facts become "selected and protected truths" by that way; sort of political choice, related to the culture and history of each country, or community of states.

World's history has countless unpleasant memoires, but people has different ways to call them; opposed versions related to a political orientation (as often happens in my country), or to a national image to support against foreigners.

SkvyWvr · 10-09-06, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

Galileo, why don't you come up with the evidence that we're actually committing genocide in Iraq (and I mean with reliable sources from mainstream media).

Btw, not only are you playing with fire but I have a ZERO tolerance policy for liars.

Well said.

10-08-06, 08:09 AM	#1
Narcosis Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	What is France trying to do? French parliament Thursday, calls for five years in prison and a fine of 45,000 euros (57,000 dollars) for anyone who denies the massacres of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire, http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=145650 WITH ABOUT AN ALGERIA 'GENOCIDE' LAW AS WE ARE AT IT ? Last edited by Narcosis; 10-08-06 at 08:15 AM.

10-08-06, 08:48 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,710 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	No, they are not nuts, but it is a political message in the first, and an additonal tripwire for EU-Turkey negotiations. Chirac and France is strongly opposing the EU entry of Turkey. Since I also strictly oppose Turkish EU membership I support that French move, since it makes things more difficult and supports my goal of negotiation failure. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-08-06, 10:59 AM	#5
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Galileo, why don't you come up with the evidence that we're actually committing genocide in Iraq (and I mean with reliable sources from mainstream media). Btw, not only are you playing with fire but I have a ZERO tolerance policy for liars. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua Last edited by Yahoshua; 10-08-06 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Language

10-08-06, 11:42 AM	#6
UglyMowgli Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 774 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	ben si vous avez aucune tolerance pour les menteurs mon cher mai, faudrait pas voir a melanger les genres et avoir 2 poids 2 mesures dans vos propos ciritques, dire qu'il y a eu un genocide du peuple algerien entre 1954 et 1962 c'est comme dire qu'il y en a un actuellement en iraq. Dans toutes guerre il y a des morts civils mais doit on les qulifier de genocide? y a pas de guerre propre, juste des guerres justes (celles que l'on gagne) et des sales (celles qu'on perd militairmeent ou politiquement). Et puis si on veux commencer acauser d egenocide, si on parlait un peu des indiens d'amerique. je femrerai pas ma geule devant des gros connards qui savent de quoi ils causent moi aussi. Je vous la souhaite pas bonne. __________________ Modern Naval Warfare Community Manager Last edited by UglyMowgli; 10-08-06 at 11:47 AM.

10-08-06, 12:06 PM	#7
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I find that policy quite Stalinist. But I guess it suits France where you have the side of the communists and socialists versus the side of the nationalists/fascists and monarchists. It's a sign of the point we've reached, if that's how you need to send a message. I'd do it the other way, I'd offer a 45,000 Euro prize for whoever can come up with the best 'irrefutable' study about the genocide. But that's my way of doing things, at least it works with dogs. __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand

10-08-06, 03:48 PM	#10
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Hmmm, now I realise just how long ago it was I did GCSE French... :hmm: Anyway...guys...newsflash!! The Napoleonic wars have ended!! We're in two societies that France is also a member of!! I go to MacDonalds and eat French fries! (probably made in Sheffield ) Are we going to start burying the muskets now?

10-08-06, 04:52 PM	#13
CB.. Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,278 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	wow..the Pope certainly seems to have started something with his historical research speech....this should be fun..no idea where we'll end up tho __________________ the world's tinyiest sh3 supermod- and other SH3/SH2 stuff http://www.ebort2.co.uk/ The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B.Yeats

10-09-06, 06:06 AM	#14
Bertgang Sparky Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 158 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	As pointed by Skybird, such law it's mainly a political signal for Turkey, and those who want this country in UE; under this side, it has my full approval. I hate any denial of historycal facts but, under a different point of wiew, I doubt this sort of laws could work fine, on the long run. Their main limit is that just few facts become "selected and protected truths" by that way; sort of political choice, related to the culture and history of each country, or community of states. World's history has countless unpleasant memoires, but people has different ways to call them; opposed versions related to a political orientation (as often happens in my country), or to a national image to support against foreigners. Last edited by Bertgang; 10-09-06 at 11:38 AM.