Deck gun woes

[gungankllr]

Greetings again-

After installing the GW mod and Subcommander, I've found I rather enjoy using the deck gun to kill smaller shipping that would be a waste of Torpedos (Tramp Steamers, Fishing Boats, Small Coastal Vessels and Passenger Liners)

That being said, I miss being able to carry AP rounds for my deck gun, as was with unmodded SHIII.

Is there any way to modify something to carry less Starshells and be able to carry a greater load of HE and AP?

I'm not looking to bring along 1500 extra bullets, I'd just like to use a little semi-realism and drop the 20 starshells for 20 extra AP, and carry the full loadout you can in SHIII.

Any advice?

[U-104]

look in data>cfg>basic
[AMMO_TYPE0];10.5cm SK C/32
Idx=0
Year=1939
Month=1
;AP=40
;HE=60
;SS=20
AP=0
HE=110
SS=20
Renown=0

[AMMO_TYPE1];8.8cm SK C/35
Idx=1
Year=1939
Month=1
;AP=40
;HE=160
;SS=40
AP=0
HE=220
SS=20
Renown=0

hope it help's

[gungankllr]

Do you change the upper or lower set?

[U-104]

i think it is the lower but it could be the upper.

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by gungankllr

Do you change the upper or lower set?

Remove the ";" from the upper and add it to the lower.

[gungankllr]

Is the maximum amount of rounds for the deck gun hard coded at 240?

I tried tweaking it but it keeps reverting to 240.

I did try everything recommended thus far, and I tried keeping it at 220 HE and 20 AP.

Also, do you have to start a new career for it to work? Every time I try to set it up I get the standard loadout.

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by gungankllr

Is the maximum amount of rounds for the deck gun hard coded at 240?

I tried tweaking it but it keeps reverting to 240.

I did try everything recommended thus far, and I tried keeping it at 220 HE and 20 AP.

Also, do you have to start a new career for it to work? Every time I try to set it up I get the standard loadout.

You have to bump up the storage. I can't remember exactly where but the storage is set in multiples of 60 (60x4=240). Increase this number and you'll be able to add more shells. Search the forum for deck gun threads. You'll find the exact location for the edit.

[SubConscious]

According to Jak P. Mallman Showell's U-Boats Under the Swastika, the 88mm deck gun should have a loadout of 250 HE shells, while the 105mm deck gun should have 200 HE shells.

The way I accomplished this was to change the starshell and armor-piercing values to zero, then set the high-explosive accordingly.

Note that you can also adjust the loadout of your anti-aircraft guns. This comes in handy with the IXB's 37mm gun. It's terrible as an AA weapon, but it's downright handy for blasting small ships.

[CCIP]

Actually, unless you mod the shells too, the AP is kind of an... illusion in SHIII. It's not very 'armor piercing' at all, and I'm yet to observe it being any more effective than HE (less, rather...)

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Actually, unless you mod the shells too, the AP is kind of an... illusion in SHIII. It's not very 'armor piercing' at all, and I'm yet to observe it being any more effective than HE (less, rather...)

Very true.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Actually, unless you mod the shells too, the AP is kind of an... illusion in SHIII. It's not very 'armor piercing' at all, and I'm yet to observe it being any more effective than HE (less, rather...)

Yes this topic come up from time to time and the general agreement is that there is little difference between the HP and AP rounds and modding is not worth the effort.

Furthermore I belive it to be historically accurate.

Now dont get me started on the rate of fire and damage model

I understand these issues are being looked into in the next release of GW.

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Yes this topic come up from time to time and the general agreement is that there is little difference between the HP and AP rounds and modding is not worth the effort.

Furthermore I belive it to be historically accurate.

Now dont get me started on the rate of fire and damage model

I understand these issues are being looked into in the next release of GW.

I can't say whether it is historically accurate or not, but this is my two-cents worth on realistically accurate.

HE rounds are designed to explode on impact, using their explosive blast to damage. This is why hull shots are pretty worthless: blasting holes above the waterline doesn't really affect ship buoyancy, structural integrity or performance. Although if they hit exposed flammable or explosive cargo on the decks HE rounds would damage or destroy them, and the collateral damage from the resultant cargo explosions would likely structurally damage the ship.

Striking the waterline with an HE round creates a rather large hole through which water will flood the interior spaces. Enough flooding in enough spaces will gradually sink the ship once it becomes negatively buoyant. It generally takes a lot of rounds to do so in a large vessel; for one thing, that's a lot of interior space. For others, ships (even cargo and tankers) are compartmentalized. Flooding one doesn't necessarily flood others. The compartments usually are bulkheaded, and you can expect the crew to be doing their best to close off damaged compartments and keep the pumps running.

AP rounds are designed to pierce structures and travel a bit past before detonating. They carry less explosive because the shell is more massive due to the added steel casing that aids in penetration. Striking hull or waterline will only make a hole slightly larger in diameter than the shell itself. It's rather like ramming an ice pick through a surface compared to sledge-hammering it. Therefore there will be substantially less flooding from an AP round than using an HE one.

Realistically where AP rounds come in useful would be, for instance, if you intercepted an undamaged small-sized merchant. If you were to target the engine compartment areas, fuel bunkers or propulsion system areas with HE rounds they would simply explode on the hull skin. Granted, enough flooding would eventually stop the engines, but AP rounds would drive through the hull and explode inside. Several in the engine compartment would cripple the ship, bringing it to a dead stop and permitting a more leisurely (and vastly more accurate) HE waterline attack. Accurate shots to the bunkers have the chance of exploding the vessel outright. Neither of which HE rounds have a chance of doing.

The same would apply to smaller warships: AP rounds could penetrate into the magazines, exploding the magazines, and thus the warship. However, considering the comparative rates of fire between your U-boat and anything above an armed trawler, in my opinion hoping for a golden BB to a magazine with your first shot (which is probably all you'd get) is suicide.

Unfortunately, I don't believe SHIII (or any of the popular mods) take into account the different performances of HE and AP rounds. Not complaining or criticizing, just mentioning it. That probably isn't an easy thing to do, as the rounds would have to have different modifiers, and so would the damage models for ships. It is, however, something I'd enjoy seeing incorporated at some point.

Albrecht von Hesse

When the Japanese were planning their attack on Pearl Harbor, one of the problems they faced was how to effectively bomb the battleships and heavier warships, as they didn't have any armour-piercing bombs.

So they attached stabilizing fins to armour-piercing shells scavanged from their battleships.

Between the velocity imparted from falling, from the forward motion of the bombers, and from the significant mass of the shell itself, the modified bombs had more than sufficient kinetic energy to pierce the decking and penetrate deep inside, exploding with horrific effect.

Albrecht von Hesse